Rd 6, P207: Doug Kramer, C - Illinois

[Xee]

[The Cooler King]

Doesn't sound super sexy. Hope he is good. Prob C only, may not be good sign for Mustipher.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/new ... -illinois/

[IE]

I was hoping they'd grab him. I - L - L!!

[Bearfacts]

Good pick. Smart OC. Team Captain multiple years.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

Good pick. Smart OC. Team Captain multiple years.

He could be Captain Crunch for all I care. He better be an improvement over Mustipher.

[Bearfacts]

Good pick. Smart OC. Team Captain multiple years.

He could be Captain Crunch for all I care. He better be an improvement over Mustipher.

LOL.....we shall see. Mustipher seems smart enough to know what to do. It's just that he fails to accomplish it too often.

[RichH55]

I could see him starting as RG in Year 1 - then Lucas and him swapping for 2023

[mmmc_35]

I know nothing of the guy. It does seem like he will battle Mustipher for that spot. I know I'm in the minority but I wouldn't count Mustipher out. Change in scheme. He added bad wieght last year but was somewhat stronger. We will see what he looks like this year.

[The Marshall Plan]

I hereby declare his nickname to be Cosmo.

[IE]

Some schmuck on the internet prognosticating about draft sleepers. Kramer at 3:39. More athletic Sam Mustipher.

[thunderspirit]

Scouting reports:
SI.com

https://ras.football/ras-information/?PlayerID=21863

UOK EDIT: No bypassing paywalled content

[Bearfacts]

He moves extremely well. Maybe good enough to at least try him at RG to see how he holds up there.

[wab]

He's not very strong...

[RichH55]

He's not very strong...

Like 26 Reps? Thats not weak

And he held up against good Big Ten DL for 5 years

[mmmc_35]

He's not very strong...

Like 26 Reps? Thats not weak

And he held up against good Big Ten DL for 5 years

Wabs correct. I think Whitehar had 11 reps but is so much more functionally strong. Weight room strength can translate if put together correctly.

Kramer can get pushed-pulled and bull rushed around. He does a great job sealing off blocks. Hes really good at getting a guys shoulder and cutting off the gap. He has very good hand placement. He does lack some drive strength.

Now I essentially know nothing. But hip thrusters, sled push and pull, and front squats, would be my idiotic recommendations.

[Bearfacts]

Functional strength as it relates to playing football can typically be gained once a player has NFL trainers, nutritionists, and weight trainers to assist. But it Kramer's case I'm taking Rich's thinking on this that a kid who could hold up against Big Ten DL as a starter should be able to handle playing in an NFL wide zone scheme that emphasizes timing and movement over raw power.

Five years starting experience in a Power 5 conference is enough for me to believe the kid knows something about playing his position and handling various attacks. If he makes the 53 man roster over the next two seasons he'll more than likely be Lucas Patrick's backup. After that who knows. What we do know is that Mustipher was not an answer so we needed another prospect.

[dplank]

[mmmc_35]

Yeah I agree minus the violent hands. He has good hand placement but violent might be exaggerated.

[dplank]

If he gets knocked back too often in college, that doesn't bode well for the next step up.

[wab]

If he gets knocked back too often in college, that doesn't bode well for the next step up.

Some of it "could" be technique.

Based on the RAS scores these dudes got, they were drafted based on raw athletic ability. Hopefully that is something that can be built on and the technique things can be fixed.

[IE]

Big 10 is a pretty good measuring stick. All those years as a starter, and winning the job over other guys (eg. the guy playing for Pittsburg now) sort of tells you that he's doing something right.

To me he sounds a lot like a slightly more athletic Mustipher. But he's really well thought of and when Zimmerman says he doesn't get it he's responding to THAT - many do think highly of the kid/prospect, and for reasons.

[Bearfacts]

Seems to me some were saying something similar about Lucas Patrick yet Getsy and Poles saw him as a major upgrade at OC.

Lemme say this then. We aren't running a mano a mano power blocking scheme where size and incorruptible strength is required to push DL back to open running lanes. We're running a wide zone scheme where an ability to move in concert with 4 other OL is needed and quickness and enough athleticism to make second level blocks is a featured requirement. Every single OL we drafted this year seems to possess the characteristics needed for that kind of scheme.

Will they all succeed? Get serious. Hell no they won't and Kramer may become one of those who fails but for Poles and the Bears right now it's a numbers game. The more combatants and the more competition between them the more likelihood that one or two end up standing out well enough to not only make the 53 man roster but start or at least become primary backups. You have to build your own OL these days and this is Poles earliest foray into doing just that. Let's see what happens. Give it time.

[alexwilkins]

I've watched a hand full in Illini games from over the last few years, and I'm pretty impressed honestly. Couple Penn State games, couple Wisconsin games. I saw him more than hold his own. Obviously Im just some guy, but I'm going to watch as many games from 2021 as I can find.

[RichH55]

He's a better Run Blocker than Pass Blocker

And the upside isn't like Pro Bowler (well I mean it probably is with everyone - but you get what I mean on more limited ceiling) - but is he better than Mustipher across the board?

Yes.

[thunderspirit]

He's a better Run Blocker than Pass Blocker

And the upside isn't like Pro Bowler (well I mean it probably is with everyone - but you get what I mean on more limited ceiling) - but is he better than Mustipher across the board?

Yes.

I agree on this.

Upgrading Mustipher is a step in the right direction. Sam seems like a great guy, but just doesn't appear to be an NFL-level athlete. (For the record, neither am I, and he's a far better athlete than me. )

[UOK]

I think Kramer is a guy with bad tape but stood out in small ways that could develop into someone reliable in time. Not unlike Mustipher, who overachieved a low ceiling, but has still not really proven to be a regular starter. Kramer's ceiling is probably marginally higher.

[Bearfacts]

He's a better Run Blocker than Pass Blocker

And the upside isn't like Pro Bowler (well I mean it probably is with everyone - but you get what I mean on more limited ceiling) - but is he better than Mustipher across the board?

Yes.

On speed, quickness, athleticism, and mobility alone he's better than Mustipher. I can't see Mustipher as a fit for a wide zone blocking scheme or at least not if he's playing at 330lbs again this year. Nagy had all of his OL add weight last season and now it's all about lighter weight, quicker feet, speed and quickness post snap, and ballet like coordination between all five OL.

We can count on Patrick to play well in it or we would never have signed him. Whitehair can also play in a zone scheme and seemed better prior to all of the changes Nagy made. The two rookie OT; Thomas and Carter should be good fits and it would not surprise me if one or the other is starting at RG. Jenkins should also be able to handle it which is why I believe they'd prefer he stay at RT. The question mark is at LT. Has Borom lost even more weight? Can he pull well enough to handle his role?

Fans and the media both express concern about protecting Fields blind side but that LT also has to have enough movement ability to handle his run blocking assignment or the scheme fails if a backside defender can reach the RB in the backfield and blow up the play. It looks like three guys are gonna compete at LT; Borom, Davenport, and Jones. Who wins that battle?

[AZ_Bearfan]

[RichH55]

Not even stainless steel for a Hinsdale kid?

For shame

[The Marshall Plan]

You know it's bad when the main discussion around a guy is WELL AT LEAST HE'S BETTER THAN MUSTIPHER!