How long for Bears' D to adjust?

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Xee
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I know Brisker had no penalties in his last two years and I could have sworn I heard on Hoge & Jahns that another draftee had a similar record. Can't remember who it was for the life of me though.
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I say a 10-12 D on yardage/points and a little lower on DVOA for year 1.
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Yogi da Bear wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 8:08 pm Cover Two and Cover Three are both real simplistic defenses. They rely on speed, aggression, and gap integrity. They want to make it so players simply play fast rather than have to think about what they're going to do. Switching between the two is like simply calling two plays on offense. But you have to have the personnel. Most specifically you need that safety as the lynchpin to make that switch. We have that now with Brisker. We also have two very fast linebackers in Smith and Morrow who are great in coverage and run support. Now, of course, there's going to be a wide assortment of NFL wrinkles, but the two basic systems are so simple that they're both installed at the high school level.

With our personnel, I think that we're going to be very effective from the get-go. The only drawback is that while we have a decent 3T in Jones (and maybe others who can sub in), we don't have a great one yet. It's why I wanted Winfrey in the draft so bad. I'm hoping Ogun's health gets to the point that we can sign him again. This is the main position that really drives both defenses. If we sign him, I think we're going to be Top 10 defense from Day 1.
You make good points Yogi. The cover 2 and 3 is a "simple defense" but with the right people it flows. The Bulls have 6 championship flags using an offense i played in, in the 8th grade.
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Xee wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 10:10 pm I know Brisker had no penalties in his last two years and I could have sworn I heard on Hoge & Jahns that another draftee had a similar record. Can't remember who it was for the life of me though.
Believe it was Gordon.
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Heinz D.
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 3:45 am I think EJax is going to provide a test for Coach. When EJax does one of his disappearing acts and misses a tackle, does Coach have the balls to bench him? If Coach is going to do this whole HITS and max effort thing, he HAS TO bench him in order to maintain credibility. I hope he does bench EJax in that case.
Unless Jackson is somehow able to undergo (and survive) a major attitude adjustment, I don't see him starting this year.
dplank wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 8:08 am TMP I really disagree with you on EJax. I agree he could've played harder last year in particular, but he rebounded after a bad start and seemed to take the criticism to heart - finished strong.
The last Vikings game was an absolute putrid display from Jackson. Watch it again.

He did not finish the season "strong".
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Heinz D. wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 8:46 pm
The Marshall Plan wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 3:45 am I think EJax is going to provide a test for Coach. When EJax does one of his disappearing acts and misses a tackle, does Coach have the balls to bench him? If Coach is going to do this whole HITS and max effort thing, he HAS TO bench him in order to maintain credibility. I hope he does bench EJax in that case.
Unless Jackson is somehow able to undergo (and survive) a major attitude adjustment, I don't see him starting this year.
dplank wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 8:08 am TMP I really disagree with you on EJax. I agree he could've played harder last year in particular, but he rebounded after a bad start and seemed to take the criticism to heart - finished strong.
The last Vikings game was an absolute putrid display from Jackson. Watch it again.

He did not finish the season "strong".
Jackson will absolutely start.
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He played for Nick Saban I think he can handle some tough coaching
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Heinz D. wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 8:46 pm
The Marshall Plan wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 3:45 am I think EJax is going to provide a test for Coach. When EJax does one of his disappearing acts and misses a tackle, does Coach have the balls to bench him? If Coach is going to do this whole HITS and max effort thing, he HAS TO bench him in order to maintain credibility. I hope he does bench EJax in that case.
Unless Jackson is somehow able to undergo (and survive) a major attitude adjustment, I don't see him starting this year.
dplank wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 8:08 am TMP I really disagree with you on EJax. I agree he could've played harder last year in particular, but he rebounded after a bad start and seemed to take the criticism to heart - finished strong.
The last Vikings game was an absolute putrid display from Jackson. Watch it again.

He did not finish the season "strong".
Generally, one game aside (haven’t watched it again but believe you), EJax played well the last 1/2 to 2/3 of the season. Pencil him in, he’s starting dude
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rtd wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 11:42 pm
Yogi da Bear wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 8:08 pm Cover Two and Cover Three are both real simplistic defenses. They rely on speed, aggression, and gap integrity. They want to make it so players simply play fast rather than have to think about what they're going to do. Switching between the two is like simply calling two plays on offense. But you have to have the personnel. Most specifically you need that safety as the lynchpin to make that switch. We have that now with Brisker. We also have two very fast linebackers in Smith and Morrow who are great in coverage and run support. Now, of course, there's going to be a wide assortment of NFL wrinkles, but the two basic systems are so simple that they're both installed at the high school level.

With our personnel, I think that we're going to be very effective from the get-go. The only drawback is that while we have a decent 3T in Jones (and maybe others who can sub in), we don't have a great one yet. It's why I wanted Winfrey in the draft so bad. I'm hoping Ogun's health gets to the point that we can sign him again. This is the main position that really drives both defenses. If we sign him, I think we're going to be Top 10 defense from Day 1.
You make good points Yogi. The cover 2 and 3 is a "simple defense" but with the right people it flows. The Bulls have 6 championship flags using an offense i played in, in the 8th grade.
The simplicity of those systems is actually their strength.

This isn't String Theory Starring Matt Nagy where it takes 3 years to learn that offense even though most players will have moved on via FA, getting cut or retirement by then.

Because the Cover-2 is easier to learn you practice and play at full speed far sooner while your opponent is most likely behind the learning curve on their own system.

That was how Lovie's defenses were so damn good. They had legit great players including two guys (Urlacher and Peppers) who would've gotten into the HOF in anybody's system plus the Cover-2 which they learned during a training camp.
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wab wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 1:20 pm Jackson will absolutely start.
What are you basing that assertion on?
dplank wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 2:49 pm Generally, one game aside (haven’t watched it again but believe you), EJax played well the last 1/2 to 2/3 of the season. Pencil him in, he’s starting dude
Maybe.

We'll see.
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If Ejax is on the roster, he starts. He would have to stink it up in a handful of early games to be benched. I dont think it will matter. He should be a much better fit in this system if they let him just sit back and read QBs.
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HurricaneBear wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 7:48 am If Ejax is on the roster, he starts. He would have to stink it up in a handful of early games to be benched. I dont think it will matter. He should be a much better fit in this system if they let him just sit back and read QBs.
The thing is that they can't really cut him without enduring some serious cap repercussions this year. They could trade him...but they haven't yet, and we haven't heard anything about another team being willing to take on that contract.

If Eberflus can get Jackson to play, either with energy or intelligence (of course we'd rather it be both)--then things are fine. Well, to some degree, anyway. If Jackson plays the way he has the last two years, and Eberflus puts him on the field in spite of that, then Eberflus is completely subverting his whole HITS philosophy. Simply put, if Jackson doesn't turn things around, and quickly, he will not start.

But you're right about him being a good fit in the new system--as long as Jackson decides to actually put in the effort.
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Eddie Jackson huh?

Heinz I gotta agree with those who say he will most definitely start but as a FS again not as the jack of all trades he was required to be under Pagano and Desai. IMHO EJax is a perfect "centerfield" FS type you want to allow to roam the backend of the secondary looking for PBU and opportunities to steal picks. We seemed to stop using him that way after 2018.

If you look at his tackles stats they would tend to confirm that he was playing as much as a SS as a FS once we signed HC-D who was more of a FS and Gipson who was also more of a FS type. From 2019-2021 we actually lacked a guy like Brisker whose far more of a true SS so EJax was asked to play that role more often and it is definitely not his best position.

Here's his stats; https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... ckEd01.htm

Note that his tackles from 2017-2019 average 61 per year and during those 3 seasons he also has 10 picks. In 2020 and 2021 when paired with Gipson his tackles actually increased to 82 (2019) and 76 (2020) and he has zero picks. So has his play fallen off or was he asked to play a role that didn't best suit his skills? I don't disagree that his play fell off but is this the reason why?

At any rate "Flus" has already declared that his past is his past and that he starts with a clean slate. Let's see how he performs once he's back to playing the more typical role a FS plays in Cover 2 and Cover 3 schemes and is once again paired with a true SS like he was when Amos was his playing partner. If he doesn't improve he won't survive a 2023 $17 mil cap hit.

One other factor that might also help pass defense is the addition of Morrow. In reality he's more the size of a bigger SS than a typical MLB or WLB. If his coverage skills are that good that may also help EJax spend more of his time playing on the back end and getting the picks and PBU he once did. Kyle Fuller once recovered from a bad stretch and I have no reason to believe EJax can't do the same.
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Heinz D. wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 5:02 pm
wab wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 1:20 pm Jackson will absolutely start.
What are you basing that assertion on?
...because he's the starting safety?
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Bearfacts wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 12:30 am Eddie Jackson huh?

Heinz I gotta agree with those who say he will most definitely start but as a FS again not as the jack of all trades he was required to be under Pagano and Desai. IMHO EJax is a perfect "centerfield" FS type you want to allow to roam the backend of the secondary looking for PBU and opportunities to steal picks. We seemed to stop using him that way after 2018.

If you look at his tackles stats they would tend to confirm that he was playing as much as a SS as a FS once we signed HC-D who was more of a FS and Gipson who was also more of a FS type. From 2019-2021 we actually lacked a guy like Brisker whose far more of a true SS so EJax was asked to play that role more often and it is definitely not his best position.

Here's his stats; https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... ckEd01.htm

Note that his tackles from 2017-2019 average 61 per year and during those 3 seasons he also has 10 picks. In 2020 and 2021 when paired with Gipson his tackles actually increased to 82 (2019) and 76 (2020) and he has zero picks. So has his play fallen off or was he asked to play a role that didn't best suit his skills? I don't disagree that his play fell off but is this the reason why?
His play fell off because he got paid and his motor exploded. And he had a head coach that didn't hold guys accountable for what they did on the field.

And it doesn't have as much to do with his raw stats...just watch the games, and the pathetic effort he put forth in them . In a more reasonably functioning franchise, this argument wouldn't even be a thing. Pace paid Jackson to justify his own genius. Nagy kept him a starter, even when Jackson bottomed out, to prop up Pace.

Jackson has played really poorly...for quite some time now. Hopefully the new regime turns that around.
wab wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 1:45 pm ..because he's the starting safety?
Don't think that's set in stone, going forward.

But hey, I'd love it if Eddie Jackson turned it around. I'm not at all convinced he does that without a major degree of humiliation, though.
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Mr Heinz, I’ll wager anything you like that EJax is our starting safety week 1, barring injury. LMK.
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dplank wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 7:04 am Mr Heinz, I’ll wager anything you like that EJax is our starting safety week 1, barring injury. LMK.
Well, could happen...might not.

It really depends on how he responds to the new regime.

If it's more, "My wallet and me are fine!", then he's headed to the bench. Because he's, currently, one of the worst starting safeties in the league. If not THE worst.
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Heinz D. wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 7:48 pm
Bearfacts wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 12:30 am Eddie Jackson huh?

Heinz I gotta agree with those who say he will most definitely start but as a FS again not as the jack of all trades he was required to be under Pagano and Desai. IMHO EJax is a perfect "centerfield" FS type you want to allow to roam the backend of the secondary looking for PBU and opportunities to steal picks. We seemed to stop using him that way after 2018.

If you look at his tackles stats they would tend to confirm that he was playing as much as a SS as a FS once we signed HC-D who was more of a FS and Gipson who was also more of a FS type. From 2019-2021 we actually lacked a guy like Brisker whose far more of a true SS so EJax was asked to play that role more often and it is definitely not his best position.

Here's his stats; https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... ckEd01.htm

Note that his tackles from 2017-2019 average 61 per year and during those 3 seasons he also has 10 picks. In 2020 and 2021 when paired with Gipson his tackles actually increased to 82 (2019) and 76 (2020) and he has zero picks. So has his play fallen off or was he asked to play a role that didn't best suit his skills? I don't disagree that his play fell off but is this the reason why?
His play fell off because he got paid and his motor exploded. And he had a head coach that didn't hold guys accountable for what they did on the field.

And it doesn't have as much to do with his raw stats...just watch the games, and the pathetic effort he put forth in them . In a more reasonably functioning franchise, this argument wouldn't even be a thing. Pace paid Jackson to justify his own genius. Nagy kept him a starter, even when Jackson bottomed out, to prop up Pace.

Jackson has played really poorly...for quite some time now. Hopefully the new regime turns that around.
Jackson has never been strong wrap up tackler which made moving him toward the LOS all the more puzzling because for almost 3 years he's been playing out of his natural position quite a bit. How much of an impact that's had I can't say but I don't assume the fall off is due to his "gotten paid" although I don't discount it completely either.

As for Nagy and his failure to hold his players accountable that could have had some impact as well. But that was true of the entire team and of the secondary in particular. Anyway "Flus" has wiped his slate clean and he's a shot of redemption in 2022. How well he responds to that will tell us what we need to know about where EJax will be playing in 2023.
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Jackson's play fell off when they had to use him differently because Amos was gone. Now, I'm excited by the reviewer who says Brisker will be better than Amos and I hope he's right.
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Middleguard wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 4:12 pm Jackson's play fell off when they had to use him differently because Amos was gone. Now, I'm excited by the reviewer who says Brisker will be better than Amos and I hope he's right.
Brisker should turn out to be a substantially better player than Amos. Like, possibly, an All-Pro guy.

And his selection by the Bears (not only where, but at all) gives us a pretty clear indication of what Poles thinks about Jackson.
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