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Yogi da Bear wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 8:27 am I really like Fuller. He's my favorite FA WR left. But man, he's an injury waiting to happen.
Yeah, I'd way rather have Keelan Cole at $3M for a year than watch Fuller go on IR after two practices again.
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Grizzled wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 8:10 am Still available: Will Fuller, Eric Fisher, Anthony Hitchens, Nate Herbig (only 23, took 3rd most snaps for the Eagles past 2 years), Ereck Flowers, Xavier Rhodes.
Also Nate Solder, Jarvis Landry, even Kyle Fuller or Suh are out there. Or Anthony Barr

I feel fairly sure the Bears will add someone, maybe 2 someones, it'll be interesting to see who comes in as a 1-year patch
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wab wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 8:33 am With the Panthers taking Icky that high in the draft, Cam Erving might become expendable. He's not amazing or anything, but Poles knows him and he can play all 5 positions. he will turn 30 at the start of the season and has been pretty durable.
With every other backup likely being a rookie project, that could be pretty valuable.
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crueltyabc wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 11:35 am
wab wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 9:39 am Outside of those two? Do you really want Billy Price? Brandon Knight? Sam Tevi?
I said I was hoping some expensive-but-decent veteran would get cut somewhere post-draft but actually I do like Billy Price. He'd be cheap enough that you can use him as a swing tackle if Jenkins actually beats him out. The offensive line is incredibly young and unproven. We should have a few stable vets around in case there are injuries and/or shit totally starts to fall apart.

Borom has not played LT in the NFL and is a 2nd year player
Whitehair is a veteran that had a bad year last year
Patrick is a veteran in the sense that he has two years starting at G but is now playing C
The rookie RG is a rookie
Jenkins has not played RT in the NFL and is a 2nd year player coming off a rough season

That is not an acceptable week 1 plan in my opinion. It's not an experiment when you have no control group.

The WR group is similar with the "veterans" being still young and part-time players.
Borom played LT last year for the Bears last year including in the win in Seattle. He looked better at LT than he did on the right.

I can't believe we're talking about bringing in vets when Poles is talking about building a new team to fit his vision. He just stocked his shelves with guys he likes - he's not going to bring in some journeyman to delay the development of his guys. He shouldn't.

Same at WR. I mean of course Will Fuller has flashed some in his career. But he's hardly anything more than Velus Jones - Poles' guy. Bringing in a vet WR will do little more than steal from or delay the development of guys they want to develop into regular players if they can (Jones, ESB, Dazz, and maybe even Horsted). They also already signed David Moore for a contingency vet... a guy who looked like he was emerging in Seattle then got no chances last year (was he injured?). Anyway Getsy had him in GB last year and must have liked him if they brought him in.

The Bears are not completely green at WR - they have two guys in Mooney and Pringle who are going to be solid and reliable for JF1 & move the chains AS well as any of these washed up vet names. Jarvis Landry? Pringle's better. Fuller? I'll take Jones. Again - It isn't being pragmatic or filling gaps to bring in a vet...it is actively hurting the development of the team. With Mooney, Pringle and Jones starting and ESB, Dazz, Moore and the TEs consuming targets there is really no place for a vet without hurting Poles' investments and plans (e.g. to fully evaluate Pringle and ESB for longer term deals). And those guys were hand-picked by Poles and Getsy for a reason.
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Disagree with a lot of this. For starters, Pringle is not better than Jarvis Landry - I mean, c'mon man.

But my main issue with with the logic. I get not wanting to bring in WR's and let the young guys get their shot - fine. But you shouldn't apply that same logic to the OL. We have real problems at G right now, and are on injury away from the same at T. Dozier can't play. Davenport can't play. And the rest are late round development projects. Maybe one steps up, but counting on that would be foolish. The reason why the logic doesn't apply the same at OL as WR is simply because Justin Fields safety is at risk if you roll out a trash OL - we saw it last year and we don't need a repeat of that. I get wanting to let the kids play and develop, that's fine a WR or RB or TE - just not OL. Protect your investment!!
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I'm fine with what the Bears have at WR (given the current context of the team). I do think it is important to have a suitable veteran presence on the OL (like Cam Erving) who can fill in at potentially any position on the line. Someone better than Dakota Dozier or Julien Davenport.
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I see O-line (LT 1st) and possibly LB help as being top priority needs. If they bring in a starting LT I would feel better about every other spot, making Borom the G or T sub, moving Jenkins to the right and still having room to keep and develop the young lineman that stick. LB we are a starter short and an injury away from disaster. 3T we can roll with what we have but a cheap vet or another run at Ogun seems likely. CB and S I am ok with, maybe a cheap Vet at QB

A WR would be nice , but we got enough 1 year rentals that I would like to see the young guys play and develop.
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Julien Davenport is likely swing tackle until beaten out by a young buck -- Unless maybe we kick the tires on Solder, or even Peters for one more year, I'm not sure how much upgrade availability is out there over Davenport for the Swing tackle/veteran backup
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I still think Fisher would be a smart move for us. He could play LT unless Borom beats him out, and that moves Borom to swing T where he's fine. Davenport a deep PS backup or cut, assuming our 5th rounder makes it as a backup. I have Jenkins penciled in at RT. Borom may also slide in at RG, and at a minimum would provide another decent backup option there.

I like Erving wab, would be happy to get him also. Don't know much about this Herzig guy, seems odd to be cut at such a young age and that's a red flag to me, but who knows...
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dplank wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 12:43 pm I still think Fisher would be a smart move for us. He could play LT unless Borom beats him out, and that moves Borom to swing T where he's fine. Davenport a deep PS backup or cut, assuming our 5th rounder makes it as a backup. I have Jenkins penciled in at RT. Borom may also slide in at RG, and at a minimum would provide another decent backup option there.

I like Erving wab, would be happy to get him also. Don't know much about this Herzig guy, seems odd to be cut at such a young age and that's a red flag to me, but who knows...
My suspicion for Fisher is he will want starter money and/or more than a 1 year deal, which might not line up with what we're looking for. There are also questions of health with him.
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dplank wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 12:43 pm I still think Fisher would be a smart move for us. He could play LT unless Borom beats him out, and that moves Borom to swing T where he's fine. Davenport a deep PS backup or cut, assuming our 5th rounder makes it as a backup. I have Jenkins penciled in at RT. Borom may also slide in at RG, and at a minimum would provide another decent backup option there.

I like Erving wab, would be happy to get him also. Don't know much about this Herzig guy, seems odd to be cut at such a young age and that's a red flag to me, but who knows...
Why did the Colts move on from Fisher after just one year? Isn’t that a bit of a red flag too?

If Poles was using RAS as a tool in selecting draft picks as it appears he was, I’m not sure they’d pursue Herbig since he’s not very athletic and more of a powerful mauler type.
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I think Herbig has struggled with his weight since Stanford. He's listed at 335 but I think he's closer to like 350.

While I'd like Erving, my guess is that the Bears go with what they have.

I'm super interested to see what kind of shape Borom is in come training camp. I don't think he's going to play LT in this system at 335. If he's down to 315, he's got a chance because of his length and feet.
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TheWorldBreaker wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 1:28 pm
dplank wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 12:43 pm I still think Fisher would be a smart move for us. He could play LT unless Borom beats him out, and that moves Borom to swing T where he's fine. Davenport a deep PS backup or cut, assuming our 5th rounder makes it as a backup. I have Jenkins penciled in at RT. Borom may also slide in at RG, and at a minimum would provide another decent backup option there.

I like Erving wab, would be happy to get him also. Don't know much about this Herzig guy, seems odd to be cut at such a young age and that's a red flag to me, but who knows...
Why did the Colts move on from Fisher after just one year? Isn’t that a bit of a red flag too?

If Poles was using RAS as a tool in selecting draft picks as it appears he was, I’m not sure they’d pursue Herbig since he’s not very athletic and more of a powerful mauler type.
It is a red flag on Fisher, but it does have some explanation so there's hope. Fisher came back awful fast from his ACL injury, and played at partial strength last year for the Colts. He signed a 1 year deal and gutted it out, but didn't play great. The hope here is another year removed from that injury brings him closer to his prior form, which was excellent.
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dplank wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 1:51 pm
TheWorldBreaker wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 1:28 pm

Why did the Colts move on from Fisher after just one year? Isn’t that a bit of a red flag too?

If Poles was using RAS as a tool in selecting draft picks as it appears he was, I’m not sure they’d pursue Herbig since he’s not very athletic and more of a powerful mauler type.
It is a red flag on Fisher, but it does have some explanation so there's hope. Fisher came back awful fast from his ACL injury, and played at partial strength last year for the Colts. He signed a 1 year deal and gutted it out, but didn't play great. The hope here is another year removed from that injury brings him closer to his prior form, which was excellent.
I think it was Achilles, but yes I believe the same thought you have plank
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Here is my current list of potentials.

Offensive line:

LT
Eric Fisher - signed last year for 8.3 million. Didn’t have a great year so 5-7 million might get him for a year.
Duane Brown - olde and slowe but still ok, not as good of fit for the scheme.

C
JC Tretter - moves Patrick to G, but does this help. No clear cut upgrades at guard really available.

LB

Anthony Barr - OLB. Coming off a knee injury, played ok in 12 games.
Nick Kwiatkowski- ILB - fell out of favor with Raiders, good for ILB backup, borderline starter.

WR
Keegan Cole
TY Hilton

But, the people available is likely to change shortly as teams sign draft picks.
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WR claimed off waivers from the Chiefs.
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dplank wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 10:39 am Disagree with a lot of this. For starters, Pringle is not better than Jarvis Landry - I mean, c'mon man.

But my main issue with with the logic. I get not wanting to bring in WR's and let the young guys get their shot - fine. But you shouldn't apply that same logic to the OL. We have real problems at G right now, and are on injury away from the same at T. Dozier can't play. Davenport can't play. And the rest are late round development projects. Maybe one steps up, but counting on that would be foolish. The reason why the logic doesn't apply the same at OL as WR is simply because Justin Fields safety is at risk if you roll out a trash OL - we saw it last year and we don't need a repeat of that. I get wanting to let the kids play and develop, that's fine a WR or RB or TE - just not OL. Protect your investment!!
Honestly I think they fully intend to fill that RG spot with guys they have now.... they have 15 Olinemen and 10 of them are guys that should probably get a chance to get maximum reps in camp and earn a clear job or move on (Eislen, Wheatly). I don't want to have any reps taken away from Jones or Zach Thomas. Maybe the winner of Mustipher and Kramer starts at Center and Patrick plays RG for part or all of the season. Or maybe they feel strong enough about Braxton Jones that they kick Jenkins over to the right and Borom moves inside (llike people have been saying he should, although I don't agree it is that is as clear). My take is it doesn't make sense to make moves for journeymen or aging vets now because this is not a time for desperation - it is a time for development. IF a clear need emerges, there will be time to get JAGs much later.

On Landry I'm completely serious - I believe Pringle is better than Landry right now. I'll suggest & I really believe that if Pringle got 120-130 targets a season like Landry has his entire career, he'd blow away his numbers. Landry isn't that old but he's got a LOT of wear on the tires and has been suffering injuries and has sort of become a possession receiver that cant' do any more than Mooney or Pringle or heck probably even Dazz. I'll keep going back to this - the guy that knows Pringle better than any of us is Poles. And Poles chose him. So yeah, I'm down with that. In the same way Getsy brought in ESB. They had many other choices, and deliberately chose those guys because they believe they understand their upside, likelihood of success and that they'll fare well with increased opportunity. And then no - I'm not in favor of giving that opportunity to some other short term guy out of fear uncertainty and doubt.
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TheWorldBreaker wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 5:23 pm

WR claimed off waivers from the Chiefs.
That's awesome - I loved watching Finke. So apparently Poles signed him in January and then when he left they cut Finke - so Poles signed him again. lol

Getsy had him in GB for a while, I believe.... part of last season?
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Well Bears put a waiver claim on a WR from KC, Chris Finke
https://nfltraderumors.co/bears-claim-w ... om-chiefs/

So I guess still no rush to add a more sure thing at WR.

I'd like a solid vet at WR, preferably a guy who can play some X. But just any talent would work.

And I'd like a vet OL. Preferably a swing G/T who can backup multiple spots and compete with the young guys at RG. Even if all 4 rookies are locks, I see 8 spots locked up, leaving one more. If Davenport/Dozier/Mustipher are pushed off 53 man, fine. Injuries will likely happen anyways.

Otherwise I think that's all the immediate need outside of just being opportunistic. Maybe a trade it surprise cut will create a too good to pass up scenario.
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dplank wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 8:47 am Now that the dust has settled, I'm wondering what everyone thinks we should do (or not do) with the remaining table scraps of free agency and/or our remaining cap?

I'm thinking a few things:

1. We should add a vet WR. Jones is a gadgety guy, we have Mooney/Pringle and that's just atrocious by current NFL standards. There's talent available that would help us. Give Fields a safety valve / possession guy / chain mover.
2. I don't think we should add OL (at least not yet). We drafted 4 guys and you will only keep 9 max (maybe 8) on the 53 man roster. MAYBE you could squeeze a guy through waiver to the practice squad, but there's a good chance he'd get taken. But right now, that's where we are if you have our current starting 5 + 4 drafted guys, there's your 9. And that already pushes Dozier, Davenport, Mustipher, Simmons off the roster as is. THAT SAID, when we get these guys into camp we may realize one or more really can't play and at that point we may want to grab some last minute help.
3. Extend a key player? Roquan? Monty? I could see this happening, no point hanging on to open cap space if we don't have a viable move to make elsewhere and we aren't REALLY competing in 2022. Why not get in front of the pending Roquan extension now? Would save you a bit of money and lock in a core player.
4. Revisit OGun. If we don't get anything else done that would preclude this move, maybe we can go back to OGun and get him on a 1 year deal. 3T is a problem for us still.
By the numbers;

1) Agreed. Adding a vet "X" WR to the mix would be good but who? Finding one whose healthy enough to play 17 games and not an attitude risk or a head case severely limits Poles choices as will how much $$$ he's willing to spend on a guy who may not provide more than ARob did in 2021. IMHO cost vs production is a major factor in this decision. So give me names and costs.

2) IMHO you can no longer afford to trade for or buy an OL like Angelo did in the '90s. You have to build your own save maybe adding a key player once the foundation has already been built. Poles has chosen that route via low cost UFA and rookie drafts picks and UDFA. I would wait it out this month just to see what we have now, what to expect from them, and whose been left on the street for UFA. Could B. Jones be trusted to start at LT? Possibly. Borom was never a LT in college and despite playing at the FCS level Jones is an experienced LT. In fact so are Thomas and Carter who are currectly spec'd to play inside at this level.

Overall the coordination of 5 OL playing in lock step will be just as important as talent. To be honest I'm more concerned about our IOL and Jenkins at RT. We can help a LT when needed with chip blocks and by rolling Fields out. Interior pass blocking to keep a clean pocket and a capable all around RT can also help to survive a rookie LT whose still learning to adjust to the NFL. If we look at the list of available vet LT it's short on numbers and long an age and injury issues and then there's also the cost. So who?
Fisher? Duane Brown? Nate Solder? Reiff? Bring back Peters along with his fishing tackle? Is it really worth it?

3) Extensions for Smith and Monty make sense later this summer. I can't honestly believe we'd want either to become UFA next spring. Smith is a top five LB and leader on the defense so he'll be paid like one. Monty is an underrated RB. He's dependable, fast enough, a very tough runner who breaks tackles and can score from inside the five yard line even against a stacked defense, and he's also become a decent pass catcher. I don't buy into the idea of not extending a RB. It worked out very well with Matt Forte and IMHO Monty is no less talented and no less a team oriented guy who works very hard on his own game. Extend him.

4) If Ogunjobi can return in 2022 and play at a high level in the rotation it would make sense to sign him to a shorter term deal that could easily be extended. The fact the Poles completely ignored drafting a 3Tech DT tells me that door may still be open. Lacking that I can't identify another 3Tech DT to sign. Is it worth brining Hick back for another year? Spotrac has his MV for one year at $5.5 mil. For something in that area for a bit less it may be worth it. If not who? Use Mario Edwards? Move Sam Kamara to DT?

What will be interesting to watch is what moves Poles does make to firm up his roster over the next two months or so. Will he add some name brand vets or keep adding lower level younger vets hoping to catch one ascending once he's playing in a different scheme with different coaching. Poles has a reasonable amount of cap to work with so I'm curious what he will do.
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I think many of y'all are going to be very surprised by this staff's view on Montgomery.
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AZ_Bearfan wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 1:54 pm Poles went to a nice steakhouse, ordered the cheapest thing on the menu and is stuffing the bread rolls in his pockets for later. Poles is basically my mom.
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In a good or bad way? IIRC they’ve already come out once talking about how he embodies the type of player they want on the team.
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Given how many offensive linemen and wide receivers we have, I don't expect that Poles will sign a veteran FA until he sees what he has. God, did you notice how many UDFA WRs he signed? I don't think he would have done that if he was expecting to sign a veteran. Personally, I'd love to see us sign Fisher if only as a mentor to Jones, but I just don't see it happening. We have a lot of cap space, but I expect Roquan will be renegotiated and Monty as well (I hope, I hope). I expect we won't see a new signing until maybe final cutdowns (unless somebody unexpected is released before then). Except for maybe Ogun. Poles has shown a lot of patience to date.
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Yogi da Bear wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 10:28 am Given how many offensive linemen and wide receivers we have, I don't expect that Poles will sign a veteran FA until he sees what he has. God, did you notice how many UDFA WRs he signed? I don't think he would have done that if he was expecting to sign a veteran. Personally, I'd love to see us sign Fisher if only as a mentor to Jones, but I just don't see it happening. We have a lot of cap space, but I expect Roquan will be renegotiated and Monty as well (I hope, I hope). I expect we won't see a new signing until maybe final cutdowns (unless somebody unexpected is released before then). Except for maybe Ogun. Poles has shown a lot of patience to date.
Yeah, I don’t think he’ll do anything until at least after rookie minicamp. And even after that I think he might just waiting to evaluate guys who are cut after other teams’ rookie minicamps and or after June 1st when it can be advantageous cap wise to cut guys who have already used their two post June designations.
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thunderspirit wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 9:15 am I think many of y'all are going to be very surprised by this staff's view on Montgomery.
I've been speculating that they may indeed want to replace Monty because of his lack of explosiveness (which is not the same thing as his down-field speed once he builds up some steam - which has absolutely improved). Monty is a try-hard/earn the extra yards guy, and not a guy who makes people miss or consistent threat to pop a 50 yarder. It is easier on the opposition at times (e.g. when they have a lead) if Monty is the back all the way down field. Giving the ball to Monty means you're burning the clock down the field & not gaining big chunks.

BUT... Monty had the exact same 40 as Aaron Jones. He absolutely can be valuable in the new offense, if Getsy is bringing GB's stuff with him. Jones may be shiftier than Monty but in terms of Monty's ability to make bigger plays I think we have to agree that the jury is out until we see how Monty does in an authentic NFL offense with a helpful and more effective play-caller.

My current take on Monty is it will be up to him to stay with the Bears or not. I think they'll definitely offer him a nice contract. It just might not be as much as he'd like, and he may end up moving on to another team like James Connor (and excellent comp for Monty) did in AZ to prove himself. Juice Herbert is actually probably better in this offense, a bit faster & quicker and has really good vision. And they've built some depth behind Juice. Monty IS expendable but he's also valuable and definitely is a legit receiving back and red zone threat like Aaron Jones. I hope they find common ground. At the same time, I'm really hoping that the new regime is not like Nagy and doesn't use more of his weapons more creatively.
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I think I’ve learned Poles is not going to take a chance on a vet.
If he’s not right, he won’t be interested.
If the price is too high, he won’t be interested.

Fair play to him, he’s got cojones.
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dplank wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 9:58 am In a good or bad way? IIRC they’ve already come out once talking about how he embodies the type of player they want on the team.
I think they like his makeup and mindset for sure.

I also think they will replace him as soon as they find someone faster with the same approach to the game.

To expound on IE's post:
The RB Poles claimed from the waiver wire ran a 4.41 40 coming out of college.
The RB Poles drafted this year ran a 4.43 40.
The RB Poles brought in as a UDFA — who is basically the same size as Montgomery coming out of college, incidentally, though obviously nowhere near as accomplished a player — ran a 4.47 40.

Monty ain't long for this team. He's likely to make it through 2022 because he's the most productive offensive player on the team not named Darnell Mooney. But his days are numbered.
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AZ_Bearfan wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 1:54 pm Poles went to a nice steakhouse, ordered the cheapest thing on the menu and is stuffing the bread rolls in his pockets for later. Poles is basically my mom.
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According to this, he worked on his speed and runs a 4.44 now.

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bears ... eason-work
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IE wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 12:05 pm
thunderspirit wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 9:15 am I think many of y'all are going to be very surprised by this staff's view on Montgomery.
I've been speculating that they may indeed want to replace Monty because of his lack of explosiveness (which is not the same thing as his down-field speed once he builds up some steam - which has absolutely improved). Monty is a try-hard/earn the extra yards guy, and not a guy who makes people miss or consistent threat to pop a 50 yarder. It is easier on the opposition at times (e.g. when they have a lead) if Monty is the back all the way down field. Giving the ball to Monty means you're burning the clock down the field & not gaining big chunks.
I gotta say, IE, I really don't understand this. You claim to be looking for more explosiveness out of David, but not anything to do with his long speed (that he's unquestionable improved considerably). The thing is, Monty has ALWAYS had great short area burst. And he's ALWAYS been able to make people miss. Some of his cuts are just incredible. I think perhaps you've forgotten how explosive he really is:



GOD, I love watching David run.

I've heard a lot of people say you don't extend RBs. Period. But how many RBs have actually IMPROVED in their first three years in the league. Most RBs decline with wear and tear. But the Monty of today is far, far better than the Monty we drafted. He's so much faster and even MORE explosive than he's ever been. I would love to see him run behind that doesn't get him killed as soon as he gets the ball. Although seeing make the LOS when he should have taken a five yard loss are some of my favorite runs of his.

I sure hope they renegotiate him.
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dplank wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 12:55 pm According to this, he worked on his speed and runs a 4.44 now.

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bears ... eason-work
Ya' beat me to it. Anyone who has watched any of Monty's game videos from 2021 should be able to see that he's noticeably faster than he was coming into the NFL. We have other backs who may be slightly faster but for one example Herbert does not have the same skills or power as Monty. Herbert cannot break arm tackles or require more than one defender to bring him down.

No one has worked any harder on improving his game than Monty. In that regard he reminds me of both Payton and Matt Forte. No one can say yes or no as to whether Poles will offer him an extension but IMHO we would be pure fools not to. Monty has the vision and overall skill set to be an effective RB in a zone scheme. Would Herbert be even better. I don't believe that but we'll see.

As for the other RB we have no one can yet say what they can offer other than maybe by comparing combine or Pro Day measurables and such and by those projecting something that really can't be projected. When I read something like "he lacks explosiveness" I want to ask that poster to define that term for me. Tell me what that really means. It's talking head stuff.

Here's Monty's overview from his Combine and NFL Draft scouting report in which he's compared to......Kareem Hunt.

Overview
One of the safest runners in this draft with a desirable combination of size, vision, toughness and creativity. He runs with impressive calm and instincts in the midst of interior mayhem, weaving and battering his way through traffic. Smart teams will recognize his ability to create yardage for himself with his eyes, footwork, contact balance and power. Should alleviate concerns about his lack of explosiveness. Montgomery has a pro-ready game and Day 2 (Rounds 2-3) value as a good NFL starter.

With his KC roots it would seem to me that Poles would like Monty and prefer keeping him around as opposed to allowing him to hit FA. And is for lacking explosiveness it would seem to me that he's been working on becoming faster and more "explosive" whatever that means because I believe it's one of those catch all labels draftniks and media types like to hang on some players.
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