Re: Post draft free agency needs
Posted: Sat May 14, 2022 9:37 am
He's not explosive.
Over 10 Years of Bearing Down
https://www.bearsfansonline.com/forum/
He's not explosive.
Lol I guess I asked for that but:
If he gets 2000 plus total yards, I pay him 10-12 mill. Not much more though. With those numbers, I have no problem giving him a Joe Mixon level contract.Grizzled wrote: ↑Sat May 14, 2022 9:47 am As good as some think he is, are you paying him $12M per year? Perhaps $10M? $6 or $8M isn't getting it done. I like Monty, he's a gamer, he played at my alma mater (go Chase Allen) but he's going to ask for top dollars. If he carries the team, i.e. 1400 yards or so and 600 to 700 yards receiving, maybe.
IMO, Nagy had the MOST adverse effect on Montgomery last year--out of all the "skill" guys. (Robinson's issues were predominately his own.)dplank wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 7:06 am My bad guys I had no idea - seems such an odd take. Question: why does every other player get the McNagy consideration but not Monty? Also, assuming you watched the games and aren’t just reading stat sheets, how do you account for him getting bum rushed at or behind the LOS so often?
IE wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 12:37 pmHow do you know with such certainty that Juice, Ebner, Blasingame or Evans can't punch the ball in from 3-4 yards? How do you KNOW he's a better RB than Herbert? That's just pure opinion, and completely unsubstantiated. I've seen Nagy have Monty run 2 or even 3 times on the goal line to get in. We've all watched the same games. I know how hard Monty works. But you have no basis for saying what you're saying, other than "Nagy handed him the ball instead of his Rookie 6th rounder". Which, in itself, does NOT justify what you said. Aaron Jones was a late round back. Maybe the difference between the Pack and the Bears is the Pack plays the guys who can deliver the most?Bearfacts wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 11:25 am Looking at Monty's stats from Pro Football Reference the one thing that pops out above all else is the number of 1st down carries and receptions he's gotten. We've seen this in his highlight videos as well. He has an acute awareness of where the sticks are and he fights to get to or over them. Right now we don't have another back who can do that or score on shorter yardage runs like he does.
Does he lack explosiveness? He's rung up some long runs before including an 80 yarder for a score. But again that's not why he was drafted. He was drafted for what I referred to in my first paragraph and I will continue to insist that a team who wants to return to running the ball far more than Nagy did and is willing to build the right kind of OL to do it with can always use a back like Monty.
Whether or not Poles elects to extend him will in all likelihood depend upon the price but IMHO he's a much better back than Howard was and he's a better #1 back than Khalil Herbert. Assuming Ebner makes the final roster between him and Herbert we'll have two other backs who may give us the kind of explosiveness some believe we need but we also nee and every down tough back who can catch and that's what Monty brings to the table week in and week out. IMHO it would be a mistake to lose him in this offense.
We have to stop taking the 2-3 long runs Monty has ripped off and interpolating that into an implication "he can do that" on a regular basis. It is a fact that he does not do that nearly enough - the long runs are what balance out the short stops to result in a higher ypc. Please show me any stat that shows Monty deserves to be known for making long runs. I'm dying to find something to hang my hat on there... but the more I look the more convinced I am that he is JAG. JAG with heart is still JAG. Just like Joique Bell and Jordan Howard were JAG even though with enough carries and heart they compiled numbers and had a lot of fans.
I get it - everyone shares opinions. They just sort of come across as more than that when they are shared with such certainty. And your name is "bearFACTS".Bearfacts wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 4:13 pmIE wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 12:37 pm
How do you know with such certainty that Juice, Ebner, Blasingame or Evans can't punch the ball in from 3-4 yards? How do you KNOW he's a better RB than Herbert? That's just pure opinion, and completely unsubstantiated. I've seen Nagy have Monty run 2 or even 3 times on the goal line to get in. We've all watched the same games. I know how hard Monty works. But you have no basis for saying what you're saying, other than "Nagy handed him the ball instead of his Rookie 6th rounder". Which, in itself, does NOT justify what you said. Aaron Jones was a late round back. Maybe the difference between the Pack and the Bears is the Pack plays the guys who can deliver the most?
We have to stop taking the 2-3 long runs Monty has ripped off and interpolating that into an implication "he can do that" on a regular basis. It is a fact that he does not do that nearly enough - the long runs are what balance out the short stops to result in a higher ypc. Please show me any stat that shows Monty deserves to be known for making long runs. I'm dying to find something to hang my hat on there... but the more I look the more convinced I am that he is JAG. JAG with heart is still JAG. Just like Joique Bell and Jordan Howard were JAG even though with enough carries and heart they compiled numbers and had a lot of fans.
Which is exactly why my post said IMHO (in my honest opinion). Other things I posted are facts such as his stats and his toughness as a runner whose been counted on to handle short yardage and goal line (inside the five) carries. His rushing TDs and his carries for a 1st down are a testament to that. Much of what I post, much of what we all post is no more than our opinion. I just do my best to back mine up with why I have the opinions I do.
As for long runs there again I wrote that he has posted some long runs. One and 80 yard TD run. I never posted or even implied that he was "know for it" or deserves to be recognized as a threat to score every time he touches that ball. Monty is a very effective workhorse RB who can also catch as receiver. What the others are capable of is hard to say when we have little to go by with a couple of them but I'm not dissing any of them.
Again - this is why I say the eye test is nearly worthless.Yogi da Bear wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 8:07 am Aaron Jones? Aaron Fucking Jones? WTF?!
I can understand if you said something like "Derrick Henry" or "Jonathan Taylor," but "Aaron Jones?" WTF. Jones is not any faster than Monty is now. In fact, I think he's much slower. And he doesn't have near the moves or the power. Jones succeeds because of Rodgers and the Packer OL. Monty succeeds DESPITE our OL and QB play. You put Jones on the Bears and he'd average less than 3 ypc. Stop judging solely by stats and use your own eyes.
Aaron Jones? What a fucking joke.
And this is why I said, "right now." Monty is purportedly at a 4.4 something right now. You need to take your Monty Hating Goggles off.Moriarty wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 9:46 amAgain - this is why I say the eye test is nearly worthless.Yogi da Bear wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 8:07 am Aaron Jones? Aaron Fucking Jones? WTF?!
I can understand if you said something like "Derrick Henry" or "Jonathan Taylor," but "Aaron Jones?" WTF. Jones is not any faster than Monty is now. In fact, I think he's much slower. And he doesn't have near the moves or the power. Jones succeeds because of Rodgers and the Packer OL. Monty succeeds DESPITE our OL and QB play. You put Jones on the Bears and he'd average less than 3 ypc. Stop judging solely by stats and use your own eyes.
Aaron Jones? What a fucking joke.
Jones
40: 4.49/4.56/4.58, avg 4.54
C: 6.82
S: 4.20
V: 36.5/37.5
B: 10'7
Monty
40: 4.55/4.58/4.63, avg 4.59
C: 7.12
S: 4.23
V: 28.5/33.5
B: 10'1
You gotta at least take the Homer Goggles off when you're looking.
https://www.audacy.com/670thescore/spor ... -as-runnerYogi da Bear wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 9:50 am
And this is why I said, "right now." Monty is purportedly at a 4.4 something right now. You need to take your Monty Hating Goggles off.
Yeah...another eye test from a totally unbiased observer.Since he started working with Korfist, Montgomery hasn't run a true timed 40-yard dash. But Korfist estimates that Montgomery is now at a 4.44 mark
This would be a best case scenario for us - having a great back and not having to pay Monty just gives us all that much more financial flexibility to load up elsewhere.crueltyabc wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 12:15 pm I think Herbert is going to look so good that some of the shine will come off Monty
I've been kinda underwhelmed by Poles' budget pickups, but that one I like.
You wonder if there was some bad blood on one or both sides relative to the return and it not working out.Evans missed the team's first six games while on Injured Reserve with a knee injury. He was activated for the team's game against the Chiefs this past Sunday, when he carried the ball two times for seven yards while also catching two passes for 11 yards. Evans ended up playing six snaps on offense vs the Chiefs, along with two plays on special teams.
A third-round pick by the Titans in the 2020 NFL Draft out of Appalachian State who played in five games during his rookie season, Evans practiced on Wednesday, and he spoke to reporters before practice about being excited to be back in the mix. But Evans was added to the Injury Report again on Thursday with a knee injury and listed as a limited participant at the conclusion of practice. The team decided to place him on IR today.
I wonder. Liked him too, but after that game against KC he didn’t play again. Even when Henry went down.Moriarty wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 12:58 pmI've been kinda underwhelmed by Poles' budget pickups, but that one I like.
I'm surprised TEN quit on him so quickly.
You wonder if there was some bad blood on one or both sides relative to the return and it not working out.Evans missed the team's first six games while on Injured Reserve with a knee injury. He was activated for the team's game against the Chiefs this past Sunday, when he carried the ball two times for seven yards while also catching two passes for 11 yards. Evans ended up playing six snaps on offense vs the Chiefs, along with two plays on special teams.
A third-round pick by the Titans in the 2020 NFL Draft out of Appalachian State who played in five games during his rookie season, Evans practiced on Wednesday, and he spoke to reporters before practice about being excited to be back in the mix. But Evans was added to the Injury Report again on Thursday with a knee injury and listed as a limited participant at the conclusion of practice. The team decided to place him on IR today.
The other possibility, of course, is that his knee really is messed up.
This is getting weird. So, can I blame the stats and hate Fields too? His stats were laughably bad. How about CPat - his stats sucked here then magically he was a rock star a year later in Atlanta? Did CPat "improve" or did he just land in a better offense? Epically bad take bud, time to let it go and let's just see how he does in a proper offense.IE wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 1:54 pm A great 40 times is awesome, and helps with the breakaways that increase ypc of course (and TDs). Monty's speed AT speed is conspicuously improved. But that speed coach Monty is using is teaching him to sprint not cut back or otherwise quickly change direction - and those things will become even more important in the new system. I'm not sure you can teach the things that make a guy quicker/more explosive. Those things are also a bit more valuable in traffic, and what you need to get through more often than not before you kick in the sprint speed.
I know when reading something you don't like it is easy to conclude "hater"... but there are zero Monty haters. Nobody hates him, @Yogi da Bear. Blame the stats not the people sharing them.
Monty's going to have a full opportunity, and everyone will be rooting for him to be really improved. I'll be looking for a Bear RB that can get around 4.5 ypc or more, and I really don't care if it is Monty or not. I don't even care if it is one guy - personally, I think I'd prefer a platooned system that has guys all getting a reasonable chance and competing hard for touches & getting them based on production.
On Evans... I think he's a good example of Poles' concept of getting guys with a chip on their shoulder. They may have known each other for a while, and who knows maybe Poles knew Evans felt he wasn't getting a fair shot or wasn't in the right place for him. There is something dysfunctional about Tennessee in my view. I'm not a Tanny fan and they seem to be coached/managed weirdly IMO. Of course it is hard to go wrong with Henry... so Vrable and friends have shine.
After KC, he wasn't eligible anymore.BearsFanInMN wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 1:50 pm
I wonder. Liked him too, but after that game against KC he didn’t play again. Even when Henry went down.
Jesus H I just posted about people irresponsibly using the term hater - and there you go.dplank wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 1:59 pmThis is getting weird. So, can I blame the stats and hate Fields too? His stats were laughably bad. How about CPat - his stats sucked here then magically he was a rock star a year later in Atlanta? Did CPat "improve" or did he just land in a better offense? Epically bad take bud, time to let it go and let's just see how he does in a proper offense.IE wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 1:54 pm A great 40 times is awesome, and helps with the breakaways that increase ypc of course (and TDs). Monty's speed AT speed is conspicuously improved. But that speed coach Monty is using is teaching him to sprint not cut back or otherwise quickly change direction - and those things will become even more important in the new system. I'm not sure you can teach the things that make a guy quicker/more explosive. Those things are also a bit more valuable in traffic, and what you need to get through more often than not before you kick in the sprint speed.
I know when reading something you don't like it is easy to conclude "hater"... but there are zero Monty haters. Nobody hates him, Yogi da Bear. Blame the stats not the people sharing them.
Monty's going to have a full opportunity, and everyone will be rooting for him to be really improved. I'll be looking for a Bear RB that can get around 4.5 ypc or more, and I really don't care if it is Monty or not. I don't even care if it is one guy - personally, I think I'd prefer a platooned system that has guys all getting a reasonable chance and competing hard for touches & getting them based on production.
On Evans... I think he's a good example of Poles' concept of getting guys with a chip on their shoulder. They may have known each other for a while, and who knows maybe Poles knew Evans felt he wasn't getting a fair shot or wasn't in the right place for him. There is something dysfunctional about Tennessee in my view. I'm not a Tanny fan and they seem to be coached/managed weirdly IMO. Of course it is hard to go wrong with Henry... so Vrable and friends have shine.
Any number you pick is kind of arbitrary. And basing everything on that one stat alone, without considering any others is a bit silly. I could certainly live with less than 4.5.dplank wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 2:04 pm Had to post this separate - some bug....but re: 4.5 YPC, that is a lofty goal. RB's last year that had sub 4.5 YPC include: Derrick Henry, Joe Mixon, Ezekial Elliott, Alvin Kamara, etc etc. I'd like to see big improvement on YPC also but it's not a holy grail for evaluation IMO. There are just too many other factors involved in achieving that number.
Yeah, you're right - I'll take responsibility for bringing up ypc expectations. IMO it is more a derivative metric, and to get to that level or above you have to have a comparatively larger number of longer carries. Whether it is more 10 yarders or taking more to the house - you're delivering more, more often. So that's what I was getting at.Moriarty wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 2:40 pmAny number you pick is kind of arbitrary. And basing everything on that one stat alone, without considering any others is a bit silly. I could certainly live with less than 4.5.dplank wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 2:04 pm Had to post this separate - some bug....but re: 4.5 YPC, that is a lofty goal. RB's last year that had sub 4.5 YPC include: Derrick Henry, Joe Mixon, Ezekial Elliott, Alvin Kamara, etc etc. I'd like to see big improvement on YPC also but it's not a holy grail for evaluation IMO. There are just too many other factors involved in achieving that number.
However, keeping the starting job after yet another sub 4.0 season is totally, completely, nonnegotiably out of the question in my book. 3/4 below 4 is just rancid. I would bet there's not a back in the league that performed like that and kept starting.