Justin Fields needs more help, Poles let him down, etc., etc.

[bbaker]

He’s going to be running for his fucking life again with no one to throw to.

The Bears really know how to ruin young quarterbacks, it doesn’t matter who’s in charge.

[karhu]

If you're Justin Fields, good riddance: what're you doing on a message board at this time of the year?

Ahem. We got him field position, a deep threat at WR, a new wave of promising developmental linemen, and a revamped secondary to keep games close and options available when he has the ball. That's a good draft's work. We'd also have gotten him a LT in the first round, but...wait a second....

[UOK]

Sigh.

[dplank]

I guess my take on this is "we'll see"

I get some folks are excited that he traded down so much and accumulated picks. But, reality is they don't matter if they suck. And, knowing nothing about any of these guys but their draft positions - I can only go by historical views and say that most of who we saw picked today won't do shit in the NFL. That's just a simple, realistic view of it. He threw numbers at OL, but the guys we've picked in the past at these rounds have been guys like Hambright, Simmons, Fabuluje, etc etc - you know, the ones that we need to replace with better talent? That is, most likely, the caliber of player we just added 4 of to our OL. The hope is that one of them outperforms their forecast in a big way. Like I said, we'll see. Other teams prioritized the position early, we did not. We prioritized defense.

We also needed WR and passed on 4 big talents (Thornton, Pickens, Pierce, Moore all went immediately after) and drafted a Safety instead. Not sure that was wise. Then when we came back to WR in the 3rd, we appeared to reach (at least according to the talking heads on TV).

Kiper listed us in his "WTF were they thinking" writeup. An impartial observer.

Any spiking of the football in support of Poles is crazy IMO. I won't condemn it because for all I know he hits on a bunch of these late guys and looks like a genius. But odds are firmly against it.

We did Justin Fields no favors here, nor have we this entire off season. It's a shame.

[Grizzled]

Fields didn't exactly set the league on fire his rookie year, he ain't bringing 3 first round picks back. His salary will be locked in for 4 more years so the savings can be used to upgrade talent around him. I'm about the opposite of thinking Poles did anything in FA and the draft to protect him and give him weapons but he'll have to in 2023 or be the 2nd RP to be a GM failure.

[bbaker]

I don’t have any problem with the multiple trade-downs, I understand the idea of increasing your odds with late-round picks. My problem is passing on really good WR talent with both of our 2nd round picks, and then the ridiculous reach on Jones in the 3rd when much more productive WR’s were available. They took a guy who produced almost ZERO through 5 years in college and then had one decent year as a 6th yr player in a super pass-happy offense… vs someone like David Bell who would have been a day-one starter and a reliable weapon for Fields.

Priority #1 this off-season should have been getting Fields protection and weapons. They’ve done neither, and passed on multiple opportunities.

[southdakbearfan]

Sit down the drink cup, back away from the table and have a nap.

[BreadNCircuses]

I guess my take on this is "we'll see"

I get some folks are excited that he traded down so much and accumulated picks. But, reality is they don't matter if they suck. And, knowing nothing about any of these guys but their draft positions - I can only go by historical views and say that most of who we saw picked today won't do shit in the NFL. That's just a simple, realistic view of it. He threw numbers at OL, but the guys we've picked in the past at these rounds have been guys like Hambright, Simmons, Fabuluje, etc etc - you know, the ones that we need to replace with better talent? That is, most likely, the caliber of player we just added 4 of to our OL. The hope is that one of them outperforms their forecast in a big way. Like I said, we'll see. Other teams prioritized the position early, we did not. We prioritized defense.

We also needed WR and passed on 4 big talents (Thornton, Pickens, Pierce, Moore all went immediately after) and drafted a Safety instead. Not sure that was wise. Then when we came back to WR in the 3rd, we appeared to reach (at least according to the talking heads on TV).

Kiper listed us in his "WTF were they thinking" writeup. An impartial observer.

Any spiking of the football in support of Poles is crazy IMO. I won't condemn it because for all I know he hits on a bunch of these late guys and looks like a genius. But odds are firmly against it.

We did Justin Fields no favors here, nor have we this entire off season. It's a shame.

I feel pretty comfortable with the first two picks as guys who are likely day 1 starters in areas of need. I would have made a different pick with the 2nd #2, but I am just a random dude, what do I know?

I'm generally not likely to count on a 3rd round pick to be a day 1 starter, so we've got a ST player KR/PR who is probably a gadget player/yac guy when he rotates in at WR. The pick I was actually most unhappy about, but again, what do I know? We'll see what happens. We've also signed 3 WRs as UDFA for whatever it's worth and I don't believe any of them will be major contributors in year 1. Now that the draft is over, I wouldn't be super-surprised to see us bring in someone like Jarvis Landry or Will Fuller on a 1 year deal with incentives or something like that -- or maybe Julio Jones if anyone believes he's got anything left in the tank.

I see basically all those 6th and 7th round picks, this year and in years past, as lottery tickets. Guys with traits you hope might turn into something. So you buy a bunch of tickets and see if any of them pan out. Basically the same as UDFAs, only you don't have to convince them to sign with you.

Definitely in the "Wait and See" camp here, as I don't think we really gave Fields any new weapons, but we may yet be surprised and if the line play gets better, the play calling gets better, we might see improvement -- and who knows, maybe someone in the Pringle/St. Brown/David Moore/Dazz Newsome/Velus Jones grouping surprises and takes advantage of a big opportunity to come out of nowhere, much like Mooney did 2 years ago.

[crueltyabc]

I appreciate what Poles did in terms of building out his own depth, culture fits, and practice squad. i also think it’s absurd if he doesn’t sign a competent RG and WR off the scrap heap so fields can at least experience an nfl offense

[RichH55]

I don’t have any problem with the multiple trade-downs, I understand the idea of increasing your odds with late-round picks. My problem is passing on really good WR talent with both of our 2nd round picks, and then the ridiculous reach on Jones in the 3rd when much more productive WR’s were available. They took a guy who produced almost ZERO through 5 years in college and then had one decent year as a 6th yr player in a super pass-happy offense… vs someone like David Bell who would have been a day-one starter and a reliable weapon for Fields.

Priority #1 this off-season should have been getting Fields protection and weapons. They’ve done neither, and passed on multiple opportunities.

I think David Bell is a terrible option for Fields - not his type of WR IMHO.

[RichH55]

I appreciate what Poles did in terms of building out his own depth, culture fits, and practice squad. i also think it’s absurd if he doesn’t sign a competent RG and WR off the scrap heap so fields can at least experience an nfl offense

D. Williams (I believe) is still sitting there

[Richie]

Odd post to make after drafting 4 offensive lineman. Not to mention, after we had signed 3 others. I know the splash we wanted to make had his offer sheet matched. However, this is such a spazzy post. We have a brand new offensive system, scheme, coaching staff, and not to mention a new Oline coach within all of that. Along with 7 new offensive lineman (not including UDFA's). Don't forget we will finally get a healthy Tevin Jenkins with a full training camp under his belt as well.

Fields can also help himself a lot by processing the field better, shortening his mechanics, and not holding the football for so long. The line was not as bad as you think. Was it good? Hell no. Was it the worst? Not even in the ballpark.

Per PFF's final 2021 O-line rankings:

22. CHICAGO BEARS (DOWN 1)

LT Jason Peters | 77.9
LG Cody Whitehair | 66.0
C Sam Mustipher | 51.8
RG James Daniels | 71.8
RT Larry Borom | 61.4

There were games this season in which the Chicago offensive line couldn’t block anybody, but overall it wasn’t as bad as those low moments. Jason Peters gave the team 853 snaps of good play across 15 games before injury took him down. He allowed 28 pressures on 517 pass-blocking snaps. The biggest contributors were at least average with the exception of Sam Mustipher, whose 51.8 PFF grade was the lowest of the starters. Rookie Teven Jenkins struggled once he got his chance late in the season, allowing 11 pressures and being flagged seven times on 160 snaps.

[bbaker]

LOL. Yes, I’m sure all those late round and undrafted OL are going to make a huge difference in protecting Fields this season. I don’t what I was thinking. Sorry for being so spazzy and not realizing we just fixed the OL and WR positions.

[Richie]

LOL. Yes, I’m sure all those late round and undrafted OL are going to make a huge difference in protecting Fields this season. I don’t what I was thinking. Sorry for being so spazzy and not realizing we just fixed the OL and WR positions.

Is this a blatant attempt at a strawman fallacy? Honest question.

Holy crap. Talk about the absolute definition of a strawman. This post should pop up when you google the term itself. lol

Try again.

[dave99]

Poles has made it very clear that he can't fix everything in one year. This is a rebuild and will take time and patience.
Scheme change was always going to be the biggest upgrade from the Pace/Nagy dumpster fire.
This will be an offense that relies on the running game and getting the ball out quickly. Jones fits right in for that.
As for the draft:
The secondary was a disaster last year,
From the Trib:

The Bears ranked 27th in the NFL allowing 7.6 yards per attempt. They allowed 31 passing touchdowns, tied for 26th with only two teams surrendering more. They made only eight interceptions, which ranked 29th. Opposing quarterbacks combined for a 103.3 passer rating, dead last in the league

He went BPA and into an area of need. Having an upgraded defensive backfield isn't exactly malpractice when Aaron Rodgers is still the opposing QB.

As for Jones there is this from Sports Mockery

It was here that Poles made a shocking revelation. When asked if he kept Fields in the loop on what was happening in the draft, the GM stated that he’d gone a step further by sitting down with Fields and watching game film on several prospects last weekend. Jones was somebody the quarterback liked and put on a list of players he’d want to play with if possible. Not something you hear every day.

After that he did a pretty good job of adding quality depth for a team that had precious little of either, Some of these guys may even turn out to be starters down the road.

Some or none of this may work out in the long run but it's a bit early to be setting demolition charges.

[wab]

Ahhh. I remember my first draft day beer.

[BreadNCircuses]

Yeah this is interesting -- if this is true (and it would be weird for him to invent this), Fields was in the loop, they watched WR film together, talked about who Fields would like to play with if the opportunity was there, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRtZiP7CBss&t=866s

So if I'm Fields, I can at least feel like I'm being kept as part of the discussion -- that's going to count for something

[Arkansasbear]

So his first 2 picks are on guys he had first round grades on and didn’t seriously consider them as options as he didn’t think they would be there. So let’s burn him like a witch. Not the guys I would have drafted but I don’t have a scouting department working for. I think he has a plan on how to build this team and have faith in him. He didn’t pick any bright shiny tools but he got great value with his first 2 picks and they are going to make us better. We TD not like he drafted some TE from some small school no one ever heard of.

[Xee]

The secondary was a disaster last year,
From the Trib:

The Bears ranked 27th in the NFL allowing 7.6 yards per attempt. They allowed 31 passing touchdowns, tied for 26th with only two teams surrendering more. They made only eight interceptions, which ranked 29th. Opposing quarterbacks combined for a 103.3 passer rating, dead last in the league

Who can forget plays like this:

[TheWorldBreaker]

The Bears got two day one starters and a 200lb WR with 4.31 that can play multiple positions including out of the back field. They also got a running back that runs really great routes and has excellent hands.

And they got several athletic offensive linemen with great traits and size that need their technique refined. You might not like their names but based on this draft it appears Poles values players with good measurables that are very athletic. So at least there was a strategy.

The key will be their development which previous regimes have struggled with. But that’s something Eberflus has talked about doing repeatedly since he was hired.

I also think it’s important to remember that this isn’t a one year fix and Poles has stated that it’s going to take more than one year.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

I get the frustration with recruitment and I’ve felt it myself, probably more than I can recall in previous years. I’ve been very critical.

I’m with @dplank on this, we have to wait and see how recruitment pans out.

I think the difference with Pace is : Pace would trade up a lot which makes you really excited that you’re getting a premium player. In addition, I think Pace was pretty good at selecting players, where Pace was let down was with production - and that’s down to poor coaching. We’d trade up for premium players and then turn them into mush.
Let’s hope Poles and his coaches (mainly Eberflus) are the opposite and turn un-rated players into starters.

It’s one thing being able to splurge future draft picks on exciting players, that’s probably quite easy to do and improves your standing with the fan base. It’s another being able to find players who haven’t fulfilled their potential but can be coached to a new level.

I realise my posts are a bit ‘bipolar’ at the moment but I’m now firmly back in my box

[IotaNet]

I remember last year when everyone was saying we “won” the draft. There were spreadsheets posted and all kinds of post-draft prognostications about how how awesomely fantastic Pace had done. From Kiper to PFF. We had the best draft ever.

How did that work out for us?

Let me be clear: I love JF1 and I’m thrilled that we picked him. I think the kid is a stud and with a little luck, we have our franchise qb. With that said, I am done with grading a draft in May.

Let’s see how this plays out on the field. Let’s see all the personnel moves and the effect of quality coaching. We picked a universally praised up and coming GM. I want to watch him do his thing and see his vision/plan unfold.

In the meantime, we really need to chill.

[dplank]

Yea Ditka the coaching aspect, and the patience required to see that aspect through to fruition, are a big part of this new group ethos. I like it and I can see their plan, Flus gives me that vibe that he can create a growth environment to actually develop talent! Prior regimes - all of them - seemed to expect draft choices to be fully developed - we rarely saw raw talents grow into solid pros around here.

It’s not inconsistent at all to be upset for Fields though. This process of team building isn’t helping protect him nor is it providing him with NFL level weaponry this upcoming season, but the expectations will be high for him none the less.

I don’t think you’re posts are bipolar at all. Both of these thoughts can be valid at the same time. You can point out that Fields is getting kinda screwed and still understand and even like the master plan. The only thing I find annoying are the “Bears Moms” here and on Twitter who treat even the slightest criticism with disdain and cast those folks as hysterical or needing to “calm down”. As if you’re better somehow by blindly trusting every single thing and not having a single contrary thought - GMAFB. You know what’s “hyper” and stupid? Drafting a handful of 6th and 7th rd OL and then running around claiming that the line is fixed now. We have no idea if any of them can play and odds are they are in exactly the same class of player we are trying to replace - who were drafted in similar spots a few years prior.

For myself I’m going to try now and shift my thinking to future development and write off any chance of offensive success this upcoming year - not happening. Our D, on the other hand, might be pretty damn good and should keep us competitive. Probably a 6-7 win team. Pray for Fields health.

[The Marshall Plan]

I remember last year when everyone was saying we “won” the draft. There were spreadsheets posted and all kinds of post-draft prognostications about how how awesomely fantastic Pace had done. From Kiper to PFF. We had the best draft ever.

How did that work out for us?

Let me be clear: I love JF1 and I’m thrilled that we picked him. I think the kid is a stud and with a little luck, we have our franchise qb. With that said, I am done with grading a draft in May.

Let’s see how this plays out on the field. Let’s see all the personnel moves and the effect of quality coaching. We picked a universally praised up and coming GM. I want to watch him do his thing and see his vision/plan unfold.

In the meantime, we really need to chill.

That draft got deep fried by McNagy because he screwed up Fields' first year.

If Fields' first year was like Mac Jones' then that draft would've been properly labeled an unheralded success.

[o-pus #40 in B major]

Poles has made it very clear that he can't fix everything in one year. This is a rebuild and will take time and patience.
Scheme change was always going to be the biggest upgrade from the Pace/Nagy dumpster fire.
This will be an offense that relies on the running game and getting the ball out quickly. Jones fits right in for that.
As for the draft:
The secondary was a disaster last year,
From the Trib:

The Bears ranked 27th in the NFL allowing 7.6 yards per attempt. They allowed 31 passing touchdowns, tied for 26th with only two teams surrendering more. They made only eight interceptions, which ranked 29th. Opposing quarterbacks combined for a 103.3 passer rating, dead last in the league

He went BPA and into an area of need. Having an upgraded defensive backfield isn't exactly malpractice when Aaron Rodgers is still the opposing QB.

As for Jones there is this from Sports Mockery

It was here that Poles made a shocking revelation. When asked if he kept Fields in the loop on what was happening in the draft, the GM stated that he’d gone a step further by sitting down with Fields and watching game film on several prospects last weekend. Jones was somebody the quarterback liked and put on a list of players he’d want to play with if possible. Not something you hear every day.

After that he did a pretty good job of adding quality depth for a team that had precious little of either, Some of these guys may even turn out to be starters down the road.

Some or none of this may work out in the long run but it's a bit early to be setting demolition charges.

I follow this post and I hope it sinks in.

[bbaker]

Thanks @dplank for understanding exactly what I’m saying. As I said, I don’t think the first two picks are bad picks, they just aren’t going to help Fields, which should have been Poles’ #1 priority this off-season. Jones in the 3rd is a terrible pick in my opinion. He’s a raw, unproductive college player who turns 25 in a couple weeks. Bad route-runner, gadget player… not any kind of security blanket or immediate help for Fields. And has been said by a couple others, these developmental OL picks are most likely to be backups or no good.
And yet, Fields is being expected to make a huge leap forward this year. How will all of you who are refusing to consider any criticism of Poles react when Fields doesn’t produce this year? Will you (and all the meathead Bears fans) call for more patience and talk about how this wasn’t a one-year fix? Fuck no. You will all be ready to run him out of town and calling him a bust.

[TheWorldBreaker]

I remember last year when everyone was saying we “won” the draft. There were spreadsheets posted and all kinds of post-draft prognostications about how how awesomely fantastic Pace had done. From Kiper to PFF. We had the best draft ever.

How did that work out for us?

Let me be clear: I love JF1 and I’m thrilled that we picked him. I think the kid is a stud and with a little luck, we have our franchise qb. With that said, I am done with grading a draft in May.

Let’s see how this plays out on the field. Let’s see all the personnel moves and the effect of quality coaching. We picked a universally praised up and coming GM. I want to watch him do his thing and see his vision/plan unfold.

In the meantime, we really need to chill.

That draft got deep fried by McNagy because he screwed up Fields' first year.

If Fields' first year was like Mac Jones' then that draft would've been properly labeled an unheralded success.

It wasn’t Nagy’s fault the tackle Pace traded up for needed back surgery and missed most of the season.

The highest graded offensive lineman for the Bears last year was Jason Peters.

So even if Nagy was a coach that came up with good game plans and could tailor his game plans to the talent there would be a limit.

Also, Dazz Newsome and Thomas Graham, Jr. were cut and moved to the practice squad in a small draft class. So it didn’t pan out quite as well as the people excited immediately after the draft thought it would.

[Noots]

Everything we’ve seen so far in Poles says “long play.” He’s getting the roster and cap in balance. Refilling the roster. Needs to put bodies on the field that are scheme fits for a team that is moving to a 4-3 from 3-4. Rebuilding an OL that is devoid of talent, depth and pipeline. A secondary that was arguably one of the worst in the league. This is a rebuild, and although they won’t come out and say it, it’s happening before our eyes. They still have a good cap situation to go out and address the glaring holes before the season starts. I’d be shocked if there isn’t a significant signing for RG and WR.

You also add the challenge of trying to make judgements about Fields but also the OL when you had one of the DUMBEST offensive coaches and play callers in the NFL in place. Can you really assess how good Fields was in that light? What about Borom, Jenkins? I’m glad they got some good prospects in the pipeline for OT on day 3 of the draft.

This isn’t a world set up for evaluating things long term. We all want to weigh in and assess what we think is truth so we can say hey I knew it all along. Nobody really knows. For instance, who knew that Daniels wasn’t going to pan out at Center? He was supposed to be a can’t miss talent that would be a perennial pro bowler. I thought he was OK at OG. But man, he should have grabbed that C position and led this line.

Let’s see how this all pans out. I don’t think we’re devoid of talent or hope. We have new leadership across the board. If this coaching staff is even average, they’ll get the most out of Fields, and if he’s as good as we all thought he was when they drafted him, he’ll be a tide to lift all ships. He had zero chance to do that last year.

Unlike many pessimists, I don’t think it is going to be a 3-4 win team.

[TheWorldBreaker]

Thanks @dplank for understanding exactly what I’m saying. As I said, I don’t think the first two picks are bad picks, they just aren’t going to help Fields, which should have been Poles’ #1 priority this off-season. Jones in the 3rd is a terrible pick in my opinion. He’s a raw, unproductive college player who turns 25 in a couple weeks. Bad route-runner, gadget player… not any kind of security blanket or immediate help for Fields. And has been said by a couple others, these developmental OL picks are most likely to be backups or no good.
And yet, Fields is being expected to make a huge leap forward this year. How will all of you who are refusing to consider any criticism of Poles react when Fields doesn’t produce this year? Will you (and all the meathead Bears fans) call for more patience and talk about how this wasn’t a one-year fix? Fuck no. You will all be ready to run him out of town and calling him a bust.

Not being down by 21 because your secondary can’t cover and doesn’t touch down players will help Fields because it will allow them to run a more balanced offense.

Jones isn’t a polished route runner but he’s not a bad route runner. He’s also a guy that can catch a screen pass and take it to the house. His versatility and the ability to move him around will also help Fields by requiring defenses to declare themselves.

[dplank]

Also, Dazz Newsome and Thomas Graham, Jr. were cut and moved to the practice squad in a small draft class. So it didn’t pan out quite as well as the people excited immediately after the draft thought it would.

That's kind of what to expect from late draft picks. The vast majority wash out and aren't good players, that's an undeniable fact. So pls excuse those of us who aren't spiking the football regarding Poles dedication to the OL when he threw a bunch of late round flyers at the problem and largely ignored the position in free agency. Maybe some of these guys work out, maybe the coaching change yields dramatic improvements to what we already have - we will have to wait and see. But relative to Poles peers in the league and the activity they did in FA and draft, he simply didn't attack the OL like many other franchises did. His big FA move and his top two draft picks went to defense. Not one poster on this board would have been OK with that at the start of free agency - not one. Everyone here finally acknowledged that we needed to attack OL and Fields needed weapons, but now all the excuses come flying in and we're expected to cowtail to king Poles. Fck that. I'll remain skeptical until his plan pans out, and simultaneously hopeful that it does.