Justin Fields needs more help, Poles let him down, etc., etc.

[Bearfacts]

I do believe Orlovsky is pointing out how dire the talent is around Fields, and is not making a negative comment about Fields himself. He is a tool, but he isn’t wrong.

Until they actually put a full team on the field how do we know this other than by opinions the media keeps tossing out like chum to a hungry school of sharks all ready to feel on that idea. It may be true or it may not. The point is right now we don't know. We also don't know how much improvement we might see if only because Matt Nagy is no longer calling the offensive shots.

Opinions vary by quite a bit. Kiper says WTF to the V Jones pick while McShay says it's the Bears best pick. Someone else posted a video on Brisker where the person responsible to the video offers and opinion that Brisker rated a 1st round pick but along comes another who claims he couldn't cover your grandma whose in a wheel chair. It's all phuc'n propaganda of one sort or another.

The ONLY way we're gonna know is when we finally see some kind of finished product on the field.

[Bearfacts]

Dan Orlovsky huh? Here's Dan Orlovsky's stats as an NFL QB. Would those who would buy an opinion from this guy please step forward. Someone needs to fetch Dan Marino and get his thoughts. Him I might actually listen to. Dan Orlovsky......Jeezus.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... loDa00.htm

[Kylo Bearen]

You know he took a lot of sacks and held the ball a ton at tOSU right? (4th longest in College Football his final year)

What a hero

Its either that or live long enough to be a villian. Sorry couldn't pass up a chance to make a Dark Knight reference, lol.

[Rusty Trombagent]

I do believe Orlovsky is pointing out how dire the talent is around Fields, and is not making a negative comment about Fields himself. He is a tool, but he isn’t wrong.

Until they actually put a full team on the field how do we know this other than by opinions the media keeps tossing out like chum to a hungry school of sharks all ready to feel on that idea. It may be true or it may not. The point is right now we don't know. We also don't know how much improvement we might see if only because Matt Nagy is no longer calling the offensive shots.

Opinions vary by quite a bit. Kiper says WTF to the V Jones pick while McShay says it's the Bears best pick. Someone else posted a video on Brisker where the person responsible to the video offers and opinion that Brisker rated a 1st round pick but along comes another who claims he couldn't cover your grandma whose in a wheel chair. It's all phuc'n propaganda of one sort or another.

The ONLY way we're gonna know is when we finally see some kind of finished product on the field.

Yeah, 100% this. Through all this the thought I keep going back to is that the draft industrial complex has gotten fucking insane. If any random opinion pops into your head, you damn well know there's a 30 minute youtube video out there that's gonna back that point up, where some dude has picked exactly three plays from someone's career, or someone has developed their phrenological athletic traits system that explains why what your gut says is exactly right/wrong. It's really broken people's brains. Fortunately in the fall when the bullets are flying all of this nonsense is far off in the rearview mirror, but this time of year has taken on such an odd hysteria. AAFL/USFL/XFL are all gonna fail again and again, but I understand why Sisyphus keeps pushing that spring league boulder up the mountain.

I think why it's fair for bear's fans to be more in lockstep with Pole's vision than the rest of the league is because we alone know just how bad Nagy's regime was. You can and should rag on his questionable playcalling and play design, but also what's not readily apparent to the hot take industry is just how fucking undisciplined this team was under Nagy. Not just penalties but just how often players werent on the same page, how often players didnt play to the whistle, etc. Nagy kept bringing in more and more offensive staff who we'd hear were "great teachers" because these fuckups just kept happening. But there was no covering up those Nagy warts.

So I think, atleast, that Poles is 100% justified in, when he did his deep dive on the state of our beloved, believing more than anything coaching has fucked the offensive side of the ball. Everything still has to work out, and it's on him if it doesnt, but I respect his patience. I'm excited for the possibilities, and if it doesnt work we'll all be back here in four years having this same convo.

[Heinz D.]

I'm going to say it now. Book it. If they adopt a true zone blocking ground game, Khalil Herbert is going to run for 800+ yards in this offense.

I'm pretty sure that they've already stated that they're going to a zone blocking scheme. If I'm wrong about that, then I'd say that making that switch is a no-brainer, given the coaching staff involved.

I think the offense will be better than last season (not saying much). Emphasis on the run, play-action, moving the pocket and taking timely shots (I have been begging for this since 2009). It'll boil down to health and how the o-line shakes out.

This is a good place to start when approaching this entire issue--what Poles has/hasn't done.

The media narrative, the "there's NOTHING around Justin Fields!!!" nonsense stems mostly from a couple of things. The first thing being that Allen Robinson is gone. I'll counter that by saying that there's no way in hell a brand new GM can come in and pay a (pushing 30) Allen Robinson $18 mil/year...and then hope he shows up on Sundays. That just isn't happening. Robinson was awful last year. Plus, Poles suspects that he may well have a #1 receiver in Darnell Mooney--and I happen to agree with him on that (the probability, at least). So...you might already have a #1 guy on your team, but the media folks are going flail about with their hair on fire anyway, hoping for ratings and clicks, I guess. They also conveniently forget that the Bears signed Pringle. Byron Pringle is a helluva football player, folks. Made plays and put up good numbers on a depth chart that included Tyreke Hill. He may surprise a lot of people this year. Next, the media all pretend that Jones was a bad pick because he wasn't talked about constantly--ignoring the fact he led the NCAA in YAC, and has 4.31 speed. Poles and co. also have said they're actually going to give Dazz Newsome a real look (something that Nagy never did, which confused me), and they've brought in some intriguing rookies, too.

All that, to me, is quite a bit better than Mooney plus a going-through-the-motions Robinson, plus Goodwin and Byrd. Plus, they'll probably sign another guy. I'm not guaranteeing it will all work out, but it seems encouraging on paper.

The second thing the media is doing? Pretending Jenkins and Borom are busts. Both had injury plagued rookie years, Jenkins especially, but by the end of the year were playing pretty well, IMO. I watched several of the games in the last half of the season twice, and they seemed fine to me. Jenkins played most of the second half of the last Vikings game, and I didn't notice any drop-off between Peters and him. If they can stay healthy, and with a full off-season for Jenkins (who missed the last one because of his back), I see no reason for pessimism at tackle. Everyone also needs to keep in mind that a lot of the atrocious line play happened when Elijah Wilkinson was starting instead of Borom, and Wilkinson is just plain bad.

Speaking of just plain bad...Mustipher will no longer be our starting center! After a pedestrian first year as a starter, he was absolutely TERRIBLE in his second. Patrick is a huge step up from Mustipher. That alone makes the line much better.

Throw in the fact that Nagy the bonehead is gone and there's almost no way that the Bears offense will be worse than last year. Really, the only way that happens is if Fields is a bust. And I thought Fields showed improvement as last season went along, and Eberflus has already made public comments on how they're coaching Fields up to make that sophomore leap.

I'll cut my rant in half, for clarities' sake...

[RichH55]

Dan Orlovsky huh? Here's Dan Orlovsky's stats as an NFL QB. Would those who would buy an opinion from this guy please step forward. Someone needs to fetch Dan Marino and get his thoughts. Him I might actually listen to. Dan Orlovsky......Jeezus.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... loDa00.htm

Do you really think this is how things work?

You know that Bill Bellichick is a better head coach than Mike Singletary, right?

What from their playing careers is going to support that?

Do you prefer Troy Aikmen to Tony Romo at announcing?

[RichH55]

What a hero

Its either that or live long enough to be a villian. Sorry couldn't pass up a chance to make a Dark Knight reference, lol.

I think you meant hold the ball long enough to be the villian:)

[Heinz D.]

The draft.

I think it's pretty simple there--the draft didn't unfold the way many people expected, and I bet that included Poles. I'd be willing to bet that he was expecting one of about four different offensive linemen to be there at #38, and they weren't. Even Tyler Smith had been snatched up by then! As to WR, a couple of them that Poles probably hoped would be sitting there (like Christian Watson) were also gone.

So what do you do? Gordon is a first round talent. Ding. Safety is a real position of need (I personally had it in my top three), and it's a miracle Brisker is there at #48. Ding, ding. Poles simply felt that the other WRs and O linemen would be too much of a reach here. And as far as WRs go--remember that Poles is already thinking he has a #1 guy. The media forgets that.

Would I have went that way? Brisker for sure, the guy's the real deal...I probably would have grabbed him at #38. I don't know about Gordon, but the gist of it here is that I can't fault Poles for those picks. That's smart GMing. Then he went to Jones, who Poles felt was just as good of a choice as, say, Pierce or Moore or Bell. And I think that if we're being honest, we have to admit he's most likely right about that. I mean, if you're going to gamble on any of those dudes, the odds have to be close, right?

I thought he should have traded up into the fourth snagged a "name" prospect at guard, but I can't argue with Poles' tradedown-shotgun approach, either. And a lot of those guys show promise. Good traits guys, good intangible guys. And I already trust Poles more than Pace when it comes to offensive linemen. If two of those guys become contributors--which could happen--then the shotgun approach has paid off.

[dplank]

Dan Orlovsky huh? Here's Dan Orlovsky's stats as an NFL QB. Would those who would buy an opinion from this guy please step forward. Someone needs to fetch Dan Marino and get his thoughts. Him I might actually listen to. Dan Orlovsky......Jeezus.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... loDa00.htm

This makes no sense man. Orlovsky had a better pro career than Ryan Poles did, are we not supposed to trust Poles evaluation of OL because he himself failed to make it in the NFL?

[RichH55]

Dan Orlovsky huh? Here's Dan Orlovsky's stats as an NFL QB. Would those who would buy an opinion from this guy please step forward. Someone needs to fetch Dan Marino and get his thoughts. Him I might actually listen to. Dan Orlovsky......Jeezus.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... loDa00.htm

This makes no sense man. Orlovsky had a better pro career than Ryan Poles did, are we not supposed to trust Poles evaluation of OL because he himself failed to make it in the NFL?

See? Dplank and I agree here - reassess yourself!

[The Marshall Plan]

This makes no sense man. Orlovsky had a better pro career than Ryan Poles did, are we not supposed to trust Poles evaluation of OL because he himself failed to make it in the NFL?

See? Dplank and I agree here - reassess yourself!

LOL.

[Bearfacts]

Until they actually put a full team on the field how do we know this other than by opinions the media keeps tossing out like chum to a hungry school of sharks all ready to feel on that idea. It may be true or it may not. The point is right now we don't know. We also don't know how much improvement we might see if only because Matt Nagy is no longer calling the offensive shots.

Opinions vary by quite a bit. Kiper says WTF to the V Jones pick while McShay says it's the Bears best pick. Someone else posted a video on Brisker where the person responsible to the video offers and opinion that Brisker rated a 1st round pick but along comes another who claims he couldn't cover your grandma whose in a wheel chair. It's all phuc'n propaganda of one sort or another.

The ONLY way we're gonna know is when we finally see some kind of finished product on the field.

Yeah, 100% this. Through all this the thought I keep going back to is that the draft industrial complex has gotten fucking insane. If any random opinion pops into your head, you damn well know there's a 30 minute youtube video out there that's gonna back that point up, where some dude has picked exactly three plays from someone's career, or someone has developed their phrenological athletic traits system that explains why what your gut says is exactly right/wrong. It's really broken people's brains. Fortunately in the fall when the bullets are flying all of this nonsense is far off in the rearview mirror, but this time of year has taken on such an odd hysteria. AAFL/USFL/XFL are all gonna fail again and again, but I understand why Sisyphus keeps pushing that spring league boulder up the mountain.

I think why it's fair for bear's fans to be more in lockstep with Pole's vision than the rest of the league is because we alone know just how bad Nagy's regime was. You can and should rag on his questionable playcalling and play design, but also what's not readily apparent to the hot take industry is just how fucking undisciplined this team was under Nagy. Not just penalties but just how often players werent on the same page, how often players didnt play to the whistle, etc. Nagy kept bringing in more and more offensive staff who we'd hear were "great teachers" because these fuckups just kept happening. But there was no covering up those Nagy warts.

So I think, atleast, that Poles is 100% justified in, when he did his deep dive on the state of our beloved, believing more than anything coaching has fucked the offensive side of the ball. Everything still has to work out, and it's on him if it doesnt, but I respect his patience. I'm excited for the possibilities, and if it doesnt work we'll all be back here in four years having this same convo.

Amen brother. Amen......

In it's insatiable need to turn what was once a figurative shopping trip to the rookie store into a national spectacle that now resembles some kind of a reality game show like Supermarket Sweep the media has jumped on for the ride so they can also benefit financially from the hoopla. Amateur draftniks abound many willing to spend their dollars on draft guides and subscription services with which to create their own mock drafts, and for what? Can anyone show me a single one that was accurate? Even close to being accurate?

If scouting reports and player rankings were anywhere near 100% accurate as to a players chances of making an NFL roster why has a 7th round pick like Charles Leno managed to start 111 of the 119 games in his 8 year NFL career and make far more $$$ than most 7th round picks could ever imagine making? Richard Dent was an 8th round pick somewhat due to weighing only 235lbs when drafted. The Bears helped him get his teeth fixed and ended up with a HOF Defensive End and a Super Bowl MVP. A Magic 8 Ball could be just about as accurate.

I'd be far more willing to critique Poles handling of the offense and his player personnel decision in that area after the season when we actually know just how good, or bad the offense actually is vs how badly it's been coached for the past 4 years.

[Bearfacts]

The draft.

I think it's pretty simple there--the draft didn't unfold the way many people expected, and I bet that included Poles. I'd be willing to bet that he was expecting one of about four different offensive linemen to be there at #38, and they weren't. Even Tyler Smith had been snatched up by then! As to WR, a couple of them that Poles probably hoped would be sitting there (like Christian Watson) were also gone.

So what do you do? Gordon is a first round talent. Ding. Safety is a real position of need (I personally had it in my top three), and it's a miracle Brisker is there at #48. Ding, ding. Poles simply felt that the other WRs and O linemen would be too much of a reach here. And as far as WRs go--remember that Poles is already thinking he has a #1 guy. The media forgets that.

Would I have went that way? Brisker for sure, the guy's the real deal...I probably would have grabbed him at #38. I don't know about Gordon, but the gist of it here is that I can't fault Poles for those picks. That's smart GMing. Then he went to Jones, who Poles felt was just as good of a choice as, say, Pierce or Moore or Bell. And I think that if we're being honest, we have to admit he's most likely right about that. I mean, if you're going to gamble on any of those dudes, the odds have to be close, right?

I thought he should have traded up into the fourth snagged a "name" prospect at guard, but I can't argue with Poles' tradedown-shotgun approach, either. And a lot of those guys show promise. Good traits guys, good intangible guys. And I already trust Poles more than Pace when it comes to offensive linemen. If two of those guys become contributors--which could happen--then the shotgun approach has paid off.

Welcome to BFO my friend.

[Heinz D.]

I'd be far more willing to critique Poles handling of the offense and his player personnel decision in that area after the season when we actually know just how good, or bad the offense actually is vs how badly it's been coached for the past 4 years.

Yeah, no idea why people suddenly forget that. It's weird. Everybody wants him gone, expect him to be gone...then act like he wasn't the biggest problem the offense had.

Welcome to BFO my friend.

Gonna take some time to get used to you as "Bearfacts", though!

[Bearfacts]

Dan Orlovsky huh? Here's Dan Orlovsky's stats as an NFL QB. Would those who would buy an opinion from this guy please step forward. Someone needs to fetch Dan Marino and get his thoughts. Him I might actually listen to. Dan Orlovsky......Jeezus.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... loDa00.htm

Do you really think this is how things work?

You know that Bill Bellichick is a better head coach than Mike Singletary, right?

What from their playing careers is going to support that?

Do you prefer Troy Aikmen to Tony Romo at announcing?

Of course not. We all know this.

My point is more on the side of how many former NFL has beens does it take to form an outlook on something and spread it around via the media like a COVID infection at a Super Spreader event?

And using coaching talent vs whatever talent is required to become a media talking head or commenter isn't even close to being an apt comparison. That's quite a stretch Rich. Coaching successfully at the NFL level is an acquired skill. Talking is something we learned to do early in life. Forming opinions happened soon after and we've all had them our entire lives.

And whether I prefer Aikman to Romo is irrelevant. As long as it's not Cris Collinsworth or Joe Buck I can tolerate most anyone.

[o-pus #40 in B major]

I'm going to say it now. Book it. If they adopt a true zone blocking ground game, Khalil Herbert is going to run for 800+ yards in this offense.

I'm pretty sure that they've already stated that they're going to a zone blocking scheme. If I'm wrong about that, then I'd say that making that switch is a no-brainer, given the coaching staff involved.

I think the offense will be better than last season (not saying much). Emphasis on the run, play-action, moving the pocket and taking timely shots (I have been begging for this since 2009). It'll boil down to health and how the o-line shakes out.

This is a good place to start when approaching this entire issue--what Poles has/hasn't done.

The media narrative, the "there's NOTHING around Justin Fields!!!" nonsense stems mostly from a couple of things. The first thing being that Allen Robinson is gone. I'll counter that by saying that there's no way in hell a brand new GM can come in and pay a (pushing 30) Allen Robinson $18 mil/year...and then hope he shows up on Sundays. That just isn't happening. Robinson was awful last year. Plus, Poles suspects that he may well have a #1 receiver in Darnell Mooney--and I happen to agree with him on that (the probability, at least). So...you might already have a #1 guy on your team, but the media folks are going flail about with their hair on fire anyway, hoping for ratings and clicks, I guess. They also conveniently forget that the Bears signed Pringle. Byron Pringle is a helluva football player, folks. Made plays and put up good numbers on a depth chart that included Tyreke Hill. He may surprise a lot of people this year. Next, the media all pretend that Jones was a bad pick because he wasn't talked about constantly--ignoring the fact he led the NCAA in YAC, and has 4.31 speed. Poles and co. also have said they're actually going to give Dazz Newsome a real look (something that Nagy never did, which confused me), and they've brought in some intriguing rookies, too.

All that, to me, is quite a bit better than Mooney plus a going-through-the-motions Robinson, plus Goodwin and Byrd. Plus, they'll probably sign another guy. I'm not guaranteeing it will all work out, but it seems encouraging on paper.

The second thing the media is doing? Pretending Jenkins and Borom are busts. Both had injury plagued rookie years, Jenkins especially, but by the end of the year were playing pretty well, IMO. I watched several of the games in the last half of the season twice, and they seemed fine to me. Jenkins played most of the second half of the last Vikings game, and I didn't notice any drop-off between Peters and him. If they can stay healthy, and with a full off-season for Jenkins (who missed the last one because of his back), I see no reason for pessimism at tackle. Everyone also needs to keep in mind that a lot of the atrocious line play happened when Elijah Wilkinson was starting instead of Borom, and Wilkinson is just plain bad.

Speaking of just plain bad...Mustipher will no longer be our starting center! After a pedestrian first year as a starter, he was absolutely TERRIBLE in his second. Patrick is a huge step up from Mustipher. That alone makes the line much better.

Throw in the fact that Nagy the bonehead is gone and there's almost no way that the Bears offense will be worse than last year. Really, the only way that happens is if Fields is a bust. And I thought Fields showed improvement as last season went along, and Eberflus has already made public comments on how they're coaching Fields up to make that sophomore leap.

I'll cut my rant in half, for clarities' sake...

Thanks for a well-considered and thoughtful rant, Mr. Heinz D.

[Bearfacts]

Dan Orlovsky huh? Here's Dan Orlovsky's stats as an NFL QB. Would those who would buy an opinion from this guy please step forward. Someone needs to fetch Dan Marino and get his thoughts. Him I might actually listen to. Dan Orlovsky......Jeezus.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... loDa00.htm

This makes no sense man. Orlovsky had a better pro career than Ryan Poles did, are we not supposed to trust Poles evaluation of OL because he himself failed to make it in the NFL?

No.....you trust Poles because he's an NFL GM with significant experience as a personnel guy in a winning organization.

Dan Orlovsky is a career 2nd and 3rd string QB whose never coached or worked as an NFL GM or personnel guy. If he had those skills he might be working in that capacity or in coaching. Instead he's just one more media type with a personal opinion to share.

I can't believe you guys are actually defending Orlovsky over Poles when it comes to personnel matters.

[Yogi da Bear]

I thought he should have traded up into the fourth snagged a "name" prospect at guard, but I can't argue with Poles' tradedown-shotgun approach, either. And a lot of those guys show promise. Good traits guys, good intangible guys. And I already trust Poles more than Pace when it comes to offensive linemen. If two of those guys become contributors--which could happen--then the shotgun approach has paid off.

Maybe it's because I've been exposed to Pace for too long but I also wanted to trade into the fourth, but for next year's third. And not to get an OG, but Perrion Winfrey. I'm convinced he's the perfect 3T for this defense. That he didn't makes me think that Poles believes he's going to resign Ogun later. If he doesn't it calls his whole rationale into question.

Why would you deign that the 3T was such an important position in this defense that you'd sign a player to such a megadeal as Poles did, after he said he wasn't going to be doing any first wave signings. Then after cancelling the deal, I wouldn't have expected Poles to be satisfied with an unproven player like Jones to fill the position all by himself. And when you consider that he already addressed the defense in such a huge way in the second, you would have thought he'd address the 3T in the draft, unless he was already planning at making another run at Ogun later.

[Bearfacts]

This makes no sense man. Orlovsky had a better pro career than Ryan Poles did, are we not supposed to trust Poles evaluation of OL because he himself failed to make it in the NFL?

See? Dplank and I agree here - reassess yourself!

Ah hell.....you'd agree with anyone who offered you a free cheeseburger and a beer for lunch too. LOL

[Heinz D.]

My point is more on the side of how many former NFL has beens does it take to form an outlook on something and spread it around via the media like a COVID infection at a Super Spreader event?

Orlovsky is also kind of all over the place, as far as his insights go. Obvious, vague, weird, you name it...Orlovsky is one out-there talking head. The worst part?

HE'S. ALWAYS. ADAMANT. ABOUT. EVERYTHING!!!

I find that can get old pretty quickly. I guess he figures it's his trademark, or something.

[Bearfacts]

I'd be far more willing to critique Poles handling of the offense and his player personnel decision in that area after the season when we actually know just how good, or bad the offense actually is vs how badly it's been coached for the past 4 years.

Yeah, no idea why people suddenly forget that. It's weird. Everybody wants him gone, expect him to be gone...then act like he wasn't the biggest problem the offense had.

Welcome to BFO my friend.

Gonna take some time to get used to you as "Bearfacts", though!

Everyone needs an alias at one time or another.

Do ya' think anyone saw me sneak in here? I did use the side door after all.

[Bearfacts]

I thought he should have traded up into the fourth snagged a "name" prospect at guard, but I can't argue with Poles' tradedown-shotgun approach, either. And a lot of those guys show promise. Good traits guys, good intangible guys. And I already trust Poles more than Pace when it comes to offensive linemen. If two of those guys become contributors--which could happen--then the shotgun approach has paid off.

Maybe it's because I've been exposed to Pace for too long but I also wanted to trade into the fourth, but for next year's third. And not to get an OG, but Perrion Winfrey. I'm convinced he's the perfect 3T for this defense. That he didn't makes me think that Poles believes he's going to resign Ogun later. If he doesn't it calls his whole rationale into question.

Why would you deign that the 3T was such an important position in this defense that you'd sign a player to such a megadeal as Poles did, after he said he wasn't going to be doing any first wave signings. Then after cancelling the deal, I wouldn't have expected Poles to be satisfied with an unproven player like Jones to fill the position all by himself. And when you consider that he already addressed the defense in such a huge way in the second, you would have thought he'd address the 3T in the draft, unless he was already planning at making another run at Ogun later.

I've wondered about this myself which leads to a conclusion that Poles and "Flus" didn't see Winfrey as a guy they just had to have or they couldn't find a trading partner who'd accept a 2023 3rd for a 2022 4th that would get them Winfrey. One more thing to consider here is that 31 other teams did not have Winfrey ranked anywhere near as highly as the draftniks either.

The other possibility is that in making the decision to withdraw their offer to Ogunjobi there was also a commitment to resume negotiations once he had passed his physical and to date Ogunjobi is still unsigned. We won't know on this until it either happens or it doesn't and if Poles has yet another option in mind for a 3tech DT.

And I don't think we can call Justin Jones an unproven player since he's started 35 games in his previous 4 year career. He seems to lack Ogunjobi's pass rush skills but plays the run better so maybe he proves to be more versatile. That aside I find it hard to believe Poles will go into the season without another 3tech DT on the roster so let's stay tuned.

[dplank]

This makes no sense man. Orlovsky had a better pro career than Ryan Poles did, are we not supposed to trust Poles evaluation of OL because he himself failed to make it in the NFL?

No.....you trust Poles because he's an NFL GM with significant experience as a personnel guy in a winning organization.

Dan Orlovsky is a career 2nd and 3rd string QB whose never coached or worked as an NFL GM or personnel guy. If he had those skills he might be working in that capacity or in coaching. Instead he's just one more media type with a personal opinion to share.

I can't believe you guys are actually defending Orlovsky over Poles when it comes to personnel matters.

There's 31 other GM's all competing for the same resources and objectives. Here's an easy way to BS check Orlovsky: quickly run through the depth charts of every NFL team and tell me where you rank the Bears WR's. I'll hang up and listen.

[Bearfacts]

No.....you trust Poles because he's an NFL GM with significant experience as a personnel guy in a winning organization.

Dan Orlovsky is a career 2nd and 3rd string QB whose never coached or worked as an NFL GM or personnel guy. If he had those skills he might be working in that capacity or in coaching. Instead he's just one more media type with a personal opinion to share.

I can't believe you guys are actually defending Orlovsky over Poles when it comes to personnel matters.

There's 31 other GM's all competing for the same resources and objectives. Here's an easy way to BS check Orlovsky: quickly run through the depth charts of every NFL team and tell me where you rank the Bears WR's. I'll hang up and listen.

Let's start with this as far as Dan Orlovsky is concerned. I've been following the Bears and NFL football since long before he was born. More than 20 years longer to be accurate. IMHO my own opinions are therefore as valid to me as Dan Orlovsky's opinions are to him and quite possibly to others as well since I'm not being paid to give mine or create negative media content.

Hard to rank the entire Bears WR core since it's still incomplete isn't it? Why would I do that now and in addition why even ask?

What I will say is that Mooney has shown so far that he can surely play and produce in the NFL. Do you agree?

What I will also say is that Byron Pringle is a guy who seems poised to break out even more now that he's no longer buried on a KC depth chart sharing targets with two other WR. This was my number one guy as far as an affordable FA signing.

It's much tougher to rate the vets based upon their previous stats or lack thereof but we're talking about players that are likely to be #3 or #4 options and it's not possible to rate Newsome, Jones, or anyone else who hasn't yet played enough to judge.

Back at ya'. Would the Titan WR core have looked much stronger last season due to having Julio Jones yet his performance was more in line with a #3 WR and not the #1 WR he once was. How about TB with Antonio Brown? OBJ and Cleve/LAR? Jarvis Landry and Cleve. How about Green Bay without Davante Adams? The past won't always predict the present or the future.

[dplank]

So I just took my own advice and scanned this list, filtered on WR: https://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchartpos/WR

We might have the worst unit in the NFL, but there are others in consideration for the prize or at least in our ball park.

Atlanta: They did just take the #1 WR in the draft with the 5th overall pick, but they have jack squat else with Ridley being suspended. They also have an elite TE who was their top pick last year, so I'd actually put us behind them. But they're in the conversation.

Green Bay: They lost everyone lol. They added Christian Watson this draft to pair with Lazard and Cobb. Not exactly awe inspiring. They have the great equalizer in Rodgers so they can probably get away with this, but for pure WR weapons they look bad.

Indy: I still put them slightly ahead of us, but barely. They added Alec Pierce, who I wanted badly. Michael Pittman and Parris Cambell to go with him - meh.

Baltimore: I think they have the worst WR unit, worse than ours. Rashad Bateman is a guy a lot of us liked last draft, but he's done nada yet. Duvarney and Proche round out this illustrius unit - wow. One item to offset is they do have an ELITE TE in Andrews who gets a ton of their catches. And of course they have the most prolific rushing attack in the game, which dampens any WR numbers.

That's it folks - there's no argument IMO for any other team to be worse than Mooney/Pringle/ESB or Jones. And Kmet isn't any offset at TE either like Atlanta and Baltimore have.

If I'm looking at just WR, I'd say Baltimore is the worst, then maybe Atlanta even with that top pick, then either us or Green Bay, then Indy. There's the bottom 5. If you look at it as WR/TE, then I think we fall down to maybe last or right there with GB and maybe still Baltimore, but I'd nudge Atlanta up above them all. So WR only, we are bottom 3. WR/TE, we are bottom 2 (maybe 1). We then double down by having a shit OL - Orlovsky is not wrong. He's a tool, I'll give you that, but he's not wrong.

[Heinz D.]

Ah hell.....you'd agree with anyone who offered you a free cheeseburger and a beer for lunch too. LOL

And...what? You wouldn't?

Maybe it's because I've been exposed to Pace for too long but I also wanted to trade into the fourth, but for next year's third. And not to get an OG, but Perrion Winfrey. I'm convinced he's the perfect 3T for this defense. That he didn't makes me think that Poles believes he's going to resign Ogun later. If he doesn't it calls his whole rationale into question.

Why would you deign that the 3T was such an important position in this defense that you'd sign a player to such a megadeal as Poles did, after he said he wasn't going to be doing any first wave signings. Then after cancelling the deal, I wouldn't have expected Poles to be satisfied with an unproven player like Jones to fill the position all by himself. And when you consider that he already addressed the defense in such a huge way in the second, you would have thought he'd address the 3T in the draft, unless he was already planning at making another run at Ogun later.

I was totally enthralled with Winfrey, too. Thought maybe they should take him in the second.

Until I saw all the red flags on him. Which made me watch more footage...AND...I don't think the Bears are in a position to take a guy like that right now. He's too much of a gamble, more so than most prospects, IMO.

I do understand your concern about the line. I'd imagine there will be some late signings after final cuts, but for now it's a work in progress. And we'll have to be satisfied with that. It's a rebuilding team, We can all thank the football gods there are some really stellar pieces already in place, though.

[Heinz D.]

Do ya' think anyone saw me sneak in here? I did use the side door after all.

You always have been a sneaky bastard. That is truth.

(I don't have enough posts yet to PM you back, BTW. Just so you know!)

We might have the worst unit in the NFL, but there are others in consideration for the prize or at least in our ball park.

I think you're selling Mooney short.

If I turn out to be wrong about that, I will gladly eat my words.

I do agree that the unit needs work, overall, though. It'll change some before Opening Day, I'd imagine.

[dplank]

I really like Mooney. But that doesn't change where we rank, just take a minute and scan the list using the link I posted. The easy way to do it is just look through and note any team that you think has a WR corps worse than us.

[Grizzled]

Baltimore, GB, and ATL have better TE groups.

[Heinz D.]

I really like Mooney. But that doesn't change where we rank, just take a minute and scan the list using the link I posted. The easy way to do it is just look through and note any team that you think has a WR corps worse than us.

I get what you're saying. The group needs work, there's no denying that. I don't know, though? I think they'll add? And regardless of ranking, I think there is enough to work with, for Fields?

Does that make sense?

I'm not on suicide watch about the WR corps, in other words. They'll improve this year, and need further improvement next year. I embrace reality, unlike some. (Not throwing you in that basket, @dplank !)

Baltimore, GB, and ATL have better TE groups.

Pretty much everybody has a better TE group than the Bears. I don't know if Kmet will ever turn into anything above an average starter. The new regime seems like it's going to give Horstead a real shot, which is wonderful, but as much as I love Horstead, I don't think he's likely to be All-Pro.