Justin Fields needs more help, Poles let him down, etc., etc.

[RichH55]

This makes no sense man. Orlovsky had a better pro career than Ryan Poles did, are we not supposed to trust Poles evaluation of OL because he himself failed to make it in the NFL?

No.....you trust Poles because he's an NFL GM with significant experience as a personnel guy in a winning organization.

Dan Orlovsky is a career 2nd and 3rd string QB whose never coached or worked as an NFL GM or personnel guy. If he had those skills he might be working in that capacity or in coaching. Instead he's just one more media type with a personal opinion to share.

I can't believe you guys are actually defending Orlovsky over Poles when it comes to personnel matters.

You really aren't going to be able to admit what a terrible logical leap you made are you?

[RichH55]

Dont forget to note that Montgomery is a good pass catching HB

Kmet is perfectly cromulent BTW

[Heinz D.]

Dont forget to note that Montgomery is a good pass catching HB

Kmet is perfectly cromulent BTW

Thank you!

Why not throw Montgomery the ball? Is there some football mantra that would suggest otherwise?

Oh yeah...Nagy. The genius of Matt Nagy, There we go.

And I don't hate Kmet, BTW. I just don't think he's special, and we need more around him.

Kudos for the "perfectly cromulent", as well.

[Bearfacts]

Do ya' think anyone saw me sneak in here? I did use the side door after all.

You always have been a sneaky bastard. That is truth.

(I don't have enough posts yet to PM you back, BTW. Just so you know!)

Moi!!!!! How could you ever say such a thing?

Keep posting. Soon enough you'll acquire PM status and this forum will have acquired another good member.

Heinz is one of the good guys fellas.

[Bearfacts]

No.....you trust Poles because he's an NFL GM with significant experience as a personnel guy in a winning organization.

Dan Orlovsky is a career 2nd and 3rd string QB whose never coached or worked as an NFL GM or personnel guy. If he had those skills he might be working in that capacity or in coaching. Instead he's just one more media type with a personal opinion to share.

I can't believe you guys are actually defending Orlovsky over Poles when it comes to personnel matters.

You really aren't going to be able to admit what a terrible logical leap you made are you?

Now what kind of a statement is that. It has to be an example of the worst kind of question ever asked. Imagine being a prosecuting attorney and asking that of an accused. Mr. Jones, you will never admit to killing your wife will you? So if I get this straight you're asking me to admit a crime I did not commit? Is that the purpose of your question? What law school taught you that this line of questioning would bear fruit?

I have no problem admitting that I'm wrong when I am but when it comes to logic I never make terrible leaps. I hold that truth to be self-evident and never twist words to make them bend to my own meaning. I don't use that tactic because I don't have to. How much more straight forward do you want me to be on this. How would you propose I phrase it? Let me restate my case.

One is currently an NFL GM with significant previous experience as a scout and personnel guy. The other is a network media personality with significant experience as a clip board holder for several #1 QB and is not and never has been an NFL GM.

One actually makes decisions that impact the fortunes of his football team. The other orders lunch while devising opinions to criticize actual NFL decisions makers. Orlovsky is essentially all of us with an actual paycheck. We do it all for free.

Let's look at it another way. If music critics could play and movie critics could act I might put more stock in what they have to say but when has a writer for Rolling Stone ever won a Grammy or Siskel and Ebert ever won an Oscar. The defense rests.

[o-pus #40 in B major]

You really aren't going to be able to admit what a terrible logical leap you made are you?

Now what kind of a statement is that. It has to be an example of the worst kind of question ever asked. Imagine being a prosecuting attorney and asking that of an accused. Mr. Jones, you will never admit to killing your wife will you? So if I get this straight you're asking me to admit a crime I did not commit? Is that the purpose of your question? What law school taught you that this line of questioning would bear fruit?

I have no problem admitting that I'm wrong when I am but when it comes to logic I never make terrible leaps. I hold that truth to be self-evident and never twist words to make them bend to my own meaning. I don't use that tactic because I don't have to. How much more straight forward do you want me to be on this. How would you propose I phrase it? Let me restate my case.

One is currently an NFL GM with significant previous experience as a scout and personnel guy. The other is a network media personality with significant experience as a clip board holder for several #1 QB and is not and never has been an NFL GM.

One actually makes decisions that impact the fortunes of his football team. The other orders lunch while devising opinions to criticize actual NFL decisions makers. Orlovsky is essentially all of us with an actual paycheck. We do it all for free.

Let's look at it another way. If music critics could play and movie critics could act I might put more stock in what they have to say but when has a writer for Rolling Stone ever won a Grammy or Siskel and Ebert ever won an Oscar. The defense rests.

The jury has reached a decision and Orlovsky is declared to be full of shit, most of the time

[The Marshall Plan]

Bears vs. Steelers is the NFL Network game this morning as part of their Rookie Showcase.

Yesterday was the Mac Jones game against Tennessee. Then they had Chiefs vs Bengals.

NFL Network has been on a roll lately.

[Grizzled]

The one thing giving me hope is the success of the Pats over the year. Yes, having one of the greatest QBs of all times covers up a lot of deficiencies on offense. But except for bringing in Randy Moss that one year, none of their receivers were household names. Will Getsy develop and call plays to take advantage of the abilities of Fields, the RBs, WRs, and TEs? Hopefully the days of pounding square pegs into round holes will be history.

[dplank]

The one thing giving me hope is the success of the Pats over the year. Yes, having one of the greatest QBs of all times covers up a lot of deficiencies on offense. But except for bringing in Randy Moss that one year, none of their receivers were household names. Will Getsy develop and call plays to take advantage of the abilities of Fields, the RBs, WRs, and TEs? Hopefully the days of pounding square pegs into round holes will be history.

I’ve been thinking the same thing. Green Bay has also pulled it off without even average weapons for Rodgers. But…and this is a huge but - Brady and Rodgers are two of the greatest QBs ever! Is that what we need Fields to become to have a chance of success? Seems very unreasonable to me. Sure we can hope, but cmon the list of players in that caliber are very, very few. It’s just not a smart way to build anymore than buying lottery tickets is a smart retirement planning strategy.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

"Justin Fields needs more help, Poles let him down, etc., etc."

Doesn't look like this narrative is going to go away anytime soon...

2022 NFL Draft class rankings

Rank 29

FILICE: Does this new Bears regime want Justin Fields to succeed? OK, that's a flippant question. Of course the answer is yes. But Chicago's offseason activity (or lack thereof) definitely raises an eyebrow. After the No. 11 overall pick's uneven rookie campaign -- in an admittedly unfavorable environment -- Fields lost his No. 1 receiver (Allen Robinson), his best young offensive lineman (James Daniels) and the veteran tackle who competently protected his blind side (Jason Peters).

In free agency, the Bears went the contemporary Texans route, signing a bunch of low-wattage vets on short-term deals. And then in the draft, Chicago used its top two picks on defense before adding a soon-to-be 25-year-old wideout with one year of solid college production and tossing a series of Day 3 darts at a depleted O-line board. First-year GM Ryan Poles says he's not done improving the roster, but at this point, how many impact guys remain available to help foster Fields' development?

Now, it must be noted that Poles inherited a roster with serious shortcomings. And it also must be noted that Gordon and Brisker feel like fine pieces for Matt Eberflus' defense. "They bring playmaking ability into your secondary, and that's huge," the first-time head coach said, via the Chicago Sun-Times. "Big, long players create takeaways, and they do a great job of playing the ball. And that's what we're excited about. Those guys will fit right in."

But still, the expectations for young quarterbacks on rookie contracts have never been higher. Does Fields have the supporting cast to make serious strides in Year 2? What happens if he struggles? In today's NFL, when it comes to the game's most important position, patience is not a virtue.

Full list on nfl.com: https://www.nfl.com/news/2022-nfl-draft ... -brightest

[dplank]

Hard to argue with any of that

[RichH55]

Now what kind of a statement is that. It has to be an example of the worst kind of question ever asked. Imagine being a prosecuting attorney and asking that of an accused. Mr. Jones, you will never admit to killing your wife will you? So if I get this straight you're asking me to admit a crime I did not commit? Is that the purpose of your question? What law school taught you that this line of questioning would bear fruit?

I have no problem admitting that I'm wrong when I am but when it comes to logic I never make terrible leaps. I hold that truth to be self-evident and never twist words to make them bend to my own meaning. I don't use that tactic because I don't have to. How much more straight forward do you want me to be on this. How would you propose I phrase it? Let me restate my case.

One is currently an NFL GM with significant previous experience as a scout and personnel guy. The other is a network media personality with significant experience as a clip board holder for several #1 QB and is not and never has been an NFL GM.

One actually makes decisions that impact the fortunes of his football team. The other orders lunch while devising opinions to criticize actual NFL decisions makers. Orlovsky is essentially all of us with an actual paycheck. We do it all for free.

Let's look at it another way. If music critics could play and movie critics could act I might put more stock in what they have to say but when has a writer for Rolling Stone ever won a Grammy or Siskel and Ebert ever won an Oscar. The defense rests.

The jury has reached a decision and Orlovsky is declared to be full of shit, most of the time

Yeah - and if he said that - that's all well and good.

Basing anything on his NFL Career stats though?

Mind numbingly bad Gib

[RichH55]

The one thing giving me hope is the success of the Pats over the year. Yes, having one of the greatest QBs of all times covers up a lot of deficiencies on offense. But except for bringing in Randy Moss that one year, none of their receivers were household names. Will Getsy develop and call plays to take advantage of the abilities of Fields, the RBs, WRs, and TEs? Hopefully the days of pounding square pegs into round holes will be history.

I’ve been thinking the same thing. Green Bay has also pulled it off without even average weapons for Rodgers. But…and this is a huge but - Brady and Rodgers are two of the greatest QBs ever! Is that what we need Fields to become to have a chance of success? Seems very unreasonable to me. Sure we can hope, but cmon the list of players in that caliber are very, very few. It’s just not a smart way to build anymore than buying lottery tickets is a smart retirement planning strategy.

The List of QBs who had better Rookie seasons than Fields is LEGION. It's not only Brady and Rodgers types. Davis Mills arguably was better. RGIII and Mariotta were definitely better. Etc. etc. Etc.

Guys like Burrow and Herbert weren't given "the keys to the Ferrari" and as Rookies they looked like they were in different Worlds than Fields.

If Fields only got his 1st start because our team Doc punctured Dalton's lung on Game Day - IN A COVID YEAR WITH MORE PROTOCOLS - less face to face etc etc - And oh yeah - Against the Super Bowl Winner that year

That would be go to Excuse for all his bad play.

Herbert went 22 for 33 for 300+. (Herbert isn't Brady nor Rodgers - he's really good though)

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

The List of QBs who had better Rookie seasons than Fields is LEGION. It's not only Brady and Rodgers types. Davis Mills arguably was better. RGIII and Mariotta were definitely better. Etc. etc. Etc.

I’m left wondering “so what?”.

None of those QBs were ‘Nagy’d’.

We didn’t draft him for his rookie year, we drafted him to be the franchise QB for a decade plus.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

The danger for all these experts is that they base their conclusions on speculation. They base them on which round the players were drafted in.

Tom Brady will tell you how dangerous that can be.

[Heinz D.]

Hard to argue with any of that

No, it's not, in the slightest.. Allen Robinson didn't even break 500 yards last year. Justin Fields didn't lose his "#1 receiver".

That guy is still on the team.

[Heinz D.]

Also, Daniels certainly didn't play like Fields' "best young offensive lineman". He had a very meh season, and that's why he's a Steeler now.

Really, once Borom got going, he had a better year than Daniels.

[The Marshall Plan]

There isn't a single player on that OL last year who should've gone into this offseason with their job safe.

Had Poles signed a pair of stud tackles in FA and said Jenkins wasn't his cup of tea I would've been fine with that. Not that this would happen mind you.

The OL was an unmitigated disaster through a combination of poor talent due to old age, low round draft picks / UDFAs, injuries, and McNagy failing to scheme for the pass rush (the Cleveland game).

Teams need to be built from the ball outwards. OL, QB, DL. If you can upgrade them you must do it. They are the most important positions on the field.

[G08]

I'm going to say it now. Book it. If they adopt a true zone blocking ground game, Khalil Herbert is going to run for 800+ yards in this offense.

I'm pretty sure that they've already stated that they're going to a zone blocking scheme. If I'm wrong about that, then I'd say that making that switch is a no-brainer, given the coaching staff involved.

I think the offense will be better than last season (not saying much). Emphasis on the run, play-action, moving the pocket and taking timely shots (I have been begging for this since 2009). It'll boil down to health and how the o-line shakes out.

This is a good place to start when approaching this entire issue--what Poles has/hasn't done.

The media narrative, the "there's NOTHING around Justin Fields!!!" nonsense stems mostly from a couple of things. The first thing being that Allen Robinson is gone. I'll counter that by saying that there's no way in hell a brand new GM can come in and pay a (pushing 30) Allen Robinson $18 mil/year...and then hope he shows up on Sundays. That just isn't happening. Robinson was awful last year. Plus, Poles suspects that he may well have a #1 receiver in Darnell Mooney--and I happen to agree with him on that (the probability, at least). So...you might already have a #1 guy on your team, but the media folks are going flail about with their hair on fire anyway, hoping for ratings and clicks, I guess. They also conveniently forget that the Bears signed Pringle. Byron Pringle is a helluva football player, folks. Made plays and put up good numbers on a depth chart that included Tyreke Hill. He may surprise a lot of people this year. Next, the media all pretend that Jones was a bad pick because he wasn't talked about constantly--ignoring the fact he led the NCAA in YAC, and has 4.31 speed. Poles and co. also have said they're actually going to give Dazz Newsome a real look (something that Nagy never did, which confused me), and they've brought in some intriguing rookies, too.

All that, to me, is quite a bit better than Mooney plus a going-through-the-motions Robinson, plus Goodwin and Byrd. Plus, they'll probably sign another guy. I'm not guaranteeing it will all work out, but it seems encouraging on paper.

The second thing the media is doing? Pretending Jenkins and Borom are busts. Both had injury plagued rookie years, Jenkins especially, but by the end of the year were playing pretty well, IMO. I watched several of the games in the last half of the season twice, and they seemed fine to me. Jenkins played most of the second half of the last Vikings game, and I didn't notice any drop-off between Peters and him. If they can stay healthy, and with a full off-season for Jenkins (who missed the last one because of his back), I see no reason for pessimism at tackle. Everyone also needs to keep in mind that a lot of the atrocious line play happened when Elijah Wilkinson was starting instead of Borom, and Wilkinson is just plain bad.

Speaking of just plain bad...Mustipher will no longer be our starting center! After a pedestrian first year as a starter, he was absolutely TERRIBLE in his second. Patrick is a huge step up from Mustipher. That alone makes the line much better.

Throw in the fact that Nagy the bonehead is gone and there's almost no way that the Bears offense will be worse than last year. Really, the only way that happens is if Fields is a bust. And I thought Fields showed improvement as last season went along, and Eberflus has already made public comments on how they're coaching Fields up to make that sophomore leap.

I'll cut my rant in half, for clarities' sake...

Good to see you, Doofenshmirtz!

[Bearfacts]

Now what kind of a statement is that. It has to be an example of the worst kind of question ever asked. Imagine being a prosecuting attorney and asking that of an accused. Mr. Jones, you will never admit to killing your wife will you? So if I get this straight you're asking me to admit a crime I did not commit? Is that the purpose of your question? What law school taught you that this line of questioning would bear fruit?

I have no problem admitting that I'm wrong when I am but when it comes to logic I never make terrible leaps. I hold that truth to be self-evident and never twist words to make them bend to my own meaning. I don't use that tactic because I don't have to. How much more straight forward do you want me to be on this. How would you propose I phrase it? Let me restate my case.

One is currently an NFL GM with significant previous experience as a scout and personnel guy. The other is a network media personality with significant experience as a clip board holder for several #1 QB and is not and never has been an NFL GM.

One actually makes decisions that impact the fortunes of his football team. The other orders lunch while devising opinions to criticize actual NFL decisions makers. Orlovsky is essentially all of us with an actual paycheck. We do it all for free.

Let's look at it another way. If music critics could play and movie critics could act I might put more stock in what they have to say but when has a writer for Rolling Stone ever won a Grammy or Siskel and Ebert ever won an Oscar. The defense rests.

The jury has reached a decision and Orlovsky is declared to be full of shit, most of the time

Ha ha......have one on me brother.

[Kylo Bearen]

Intresting viewpoint from this video that Poles is gathering players based on potential and scheme fit over big names that are over the hill. Like for instance all of his signed receivers all have blazing speed and are gokd at separation which favor Justin's game, etc, etc.



At the very least I hope Getsy wants to rely on the running game to take pressure of off Fields and not expect him to carry the offense?

[Heinz D.]

Good to see you, Doofenshmirtz!

Back atcha, buddy!

[Grizzled]

What are the Bears criteria for going forward with Fields? What type of improvements does he need to show so they don't pull the trigger next year on another QB with a possible high draft pick? Better mechanics? More TDs than INTs? Less fumbles?

[dplank]

What are the Bears criteria for going forward with Fields? What type of improvements does he need to show so they don't pull the trigger next year on another QB with a possible high draft pick? Better mechanics? More TDs than INTs? Less fumbles?

Reduce turnovers and sacks, get the ball out on time, get above .500 on TD/INT ratio.

Imo you can’t look at yardage, TD total, team scoring, or wins due to the poor supporting cast.

[Grizzled]

What are the Bears criteria for going forward with Fields? What type of improvements does he need to show so they don't pull the trigger next year on another QB with a possible high draft pick? Better mechanics? More TDs than INTs? Less fumbles?

Reduce turnovers and sacks, get the ball out on time, get above .500 on TD/INT ratio.

Imo you can’t look at yardage, TD total, team scoring, or wins due to the poor supporting cast.

Reasonable. I just don't want a new regime to "Josh Rosen" him after only 2 years if he shows growth.

[dplank]

Agree I don’t think they will do that though. They aren’t idiots, I’m sure they understand he needs better weapons

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

What are the Bears criteria for going forward with Fields? What type of improvements does he need to show so they don't pull the trigger next year on another QB with a possible high draft pick? Better mechanics? More TDs than INTs? Less fumbles?

Less ‘Nagy’ more ‘Flus’

[The Marshall Plan]

What are the Bears criteria for going forward with Fields? What type of improvements does he need to show so they don't pull the trigger next year on another QB with a possible high draft pick? Better mechanics? More TDs than INTs? Less fumbles?

For me it boils down to are the Bears winning games because of him or in spite of him.

Or if the Bears suck next year, are they losing in spite of Fields' good play or losing because he sucks?

Some of this will play out in the numbers, other things won't show up in the numbers.

I'm looking for the TD : INT ratio. Last year it was 7 : 10. It really needs to be 2 : 1.

That's going to be the big numerical metric for me. Moreso than fumbles and definitely moreso than yardage.

In terms of qualitative type stuff, is he making better decisions? Is he scrambling when he could've thrown the ball?

Is he getting past his first read when the protection is there?

Unfortunately this isn't a Math Test kind of a thing where you either know the answer or you don't.

[RichH55]

Yeah - I think Yardage is overrated anyway - so that is not one of the main areas I was looking at (no need to apologize in advance for him)

TTT is just absolutely key - I don't think any QB is physically good enough to overcome being bottom 5 in this

[Grizzled]

Accuracy has to increase to 65% or thereabouts and TD:Ints be 2:1. Less sacks from OL improvement but also reading defenses better, moving onto secondary receivers if the primary is covered, scrambling and throwing the ball away if there's too much pressure. A couple last minute drives always looks good on the resume.