Changing Face of Bears Defensive Line

[Bearfacts]

Changing Face of Bears Defensive Line
Originally posted on FanNation Bear Digest
By Gene Chamberlain | Last updated 5/25/22

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles ... oc=right_h

We've been talking so much about the OL and how it may impact the offense but we can't ignore the DL either. Most of our DL and OLB were drafted or signed to play in a 3-4 and will now have to adapt to playing in a 4-3 one gap scheme. Here DL Coach Travis Smith discusses that a bit and gives us some insight into the weights of several players who've been asked to either gain of lose weight.

For instance he says the Charles Snowden whom the Bears list as weighing 245lbs has added 12-15 which puts him closer to 260lbs.

Others like Edwards, Attaochu, London, Gipson, and Tonga are also mentioned.

If there's any area on defense where we may struggle initially it may be upfront as player are required to learn new positions or relearn their former position in a one gap front vs a two gap front. Let's open up some discussion about this unit.

[spudbear]

I'm curious to see how Gipson and Tonga will do. Both are high-motor guys and a little raw. They had their highlights from last season as well as disappearing at times. Both need to step up considering the players that the Bears let go. Hope to see them both be disrupters.

London and Snowden? Meh, we'll see. Article does not mention Tonga, but did say that Gipson played DE with his hand on the dirt while playing at Tulsa.

[Atkins&Rebel]

Its more about being able to win your gap (and or penetrate), in this system vs control the LOS and allow the free rusher to make the play
This is an easier system to play in except for the occasional screen that will take advantage of a hard rushing defense

[Bearfacts]

I'm curious to see how Gipson and Tonga will do. Both are high-motor guys and a little raw. They had their highlights from last season as well as disappearing at times. Both need to step up considering the players that the Bears let go. Hope to see them both be disrupters.

London and Snowden? Meh, we'll see. Article does not mention Tonga, but did say that Gipson played DE with his hand on the dirt while playing at Tulsa.

It mentions Tonga mostly in relation to his size (338lbs) and questioning whether or not he's a fit. IIRC from watching his college videos he actually plays more like an Akiem Hicks than an Eddie Goldman. I don't see him shooting gaps, that's gonna be the job of Jones or whoever else is playing DT but he's similar in size to Hicks and has shown that he can push the pocket as a rusher.

Gipson was a 4-3 DE in college so this transition should be fairly easy for him. Snowden showed very good pass rush skills in college but at best even his college career would be scored as incomplete. But for certain he did need to add weight and strength if he's expected to compete as a DE. With the exception of Quinn IMHO these guys are all gonna have to succeed more on effort than a high degree of skill and experience.

[Bearfacts]

Its more about being able to win your gap (and or penetrate), in this system vs control the LOS and allow the free rusher to make the play
This is an easier system to play in except for the occasional screen that will take advantage of a hard rushing defense

It'll be interesting to see how "Flus" approaches this as far as his LB are concerned. Both Smith and Morrow are smaller than Briggs was and much smaller than Urlacher. Even Urlacher struggled a bit initially when Lovie arrived and he lost the protection of his two monster DT Traylor and Washington.

[Moriarty]

As soon as the 3-4 was gone, Gipson quickly spoke up about feeling more comfortable in 43

[artbest01]

I disagree that , from a d-line perspective, that this is an easier defense than a 2-gap scheme. It's different - but we've seen how porous this 1-gap style of defense can be if it's not executed correctly. When Lovie didn't have optimal personnel because of you, injuries - i.e. 2004, 2007, 2008, and 2009 - the Bears were notorious for being gashed in the run game

[Yogi da Bear]

Its more about being able to win your gap (and or penetrate), in this system vs control the LOS and allow the free rusher to make the play
This is an easier system to play in except for the occasional screen that will take advantage of a hard rushing defense

It'll be interesting to see how "Flus" approaches this as far as his LB are concerned. Both Smith and Morrow are smaller than Briggs was and much smaller than Urlacher. Even Urlacher struggled a bit initially when Lovie arrived and he lost the protection of his two monster DT Traylor and Washington.

Yeah, I remember this too. I think this our biggest problem on defense. It will take some adjustment for our LBs. They were protected before, now they're not. Roquan especially seemed to have a problem when a blocker had unrestricted access to him. And like, you mention, Roquan is much smaller than either Url or Briggs. I wonder if the Bears wait until the season starts to see how Roquan adapts to the 4-3 before extending him.

[dave99]

It'll be interesting to see how "Flus" approaches this as far as his LB are concerned. Both Smith and Morrow are smaller than Briggs was and much smaller than Urlacher. Even Urlacher struggled a bit initially when Lovie arrived and he lost the protection of his two monster DT Traylor and Washington.

Yeah, I remember this too. I think this our biggest problem on defense. It will take some adjustment for our LBs. They were protected before, now they're not. Roquan especially seemed to have a problem when a blocker had unrestricted access to him. And like, you mention, Roquan is much smaller than either Url or Briggs. I wonder if the Bears wait until the season starts to see how Roquan adapts to the 4-3 before extending him.

Comparing Smith to Darius Leonard, Smith is a bit shorter, weighs about the same and is much faster.
Smith is listed at 6 7/8 at 232 4.51 40 . Leonard is 6 2 , 234 4.7 forty
Briggs was 6 5/8 242 4.75 forty.
Urlacher is a freak of nature, but I believe Smith is playing Leonard's position of WLB in this scheme not MLB.
This is the position "invented" by Derrick Brooks and Lovie Smith with the old Tampa 2.
I think Smith will be just fine.

[Bearfacts]

It'll be interesting to see how "Flus" approaches this as far as his LB are concerned. Both Smith and Morrow are smaller than Briggs was and much smaller than Urlacher. Even Urlacher struggled a bit initially when Lovie arrived and he lost the protection of his two monster DT Traylor and Washington.

Yeah, I remember this too. I think this our biggest problem on defense. It will take some adjustment for our LBs. They were protected before, now they're not. Roquan especially seemed to have a problem when a blocker had unrestricted access to him. And like, you mention, Roquan is much smaller than either Url or Briggs. I wonder if the Bears wait until the season starts to see how Roquan adapts to the 4-3 before extending him.

I don't think so. Quan is an All Pro level LB and they'll have a plan for how to use him. Morrow is even smaller so it's not only Smith who'll need a scheme that allows them to be effective. The Bears aren't alone in this. Most teams employ smaller, faster, more mobile LBs now figuring it's easier to give up a little more against the run in favor of covering the pass much better.

While others are far more worried about weaknesses on the OL or at WR I actually believe our biggest concern may be the DL. We've lost both Hicks and Mack so that's two top shelf DL gone and we had to renege on the Ogunjobi deal due to his injury. Even though a guy like Mack can't be replaced in kind I think we have enough edge talent to survive. Inside is where I see potential problems.

[Bearfacts]

I disagree that , from a d-line perspective, that this is an easier defense than a 2-gap scheme. It's different - but we've seen how porous this 1-gap style of defense can be if it's not executed correctly. When Lovie didn't have optimal personnel because of you, injuries - i.e. 2004, 2007, 2008, and 2009 - the Bears were notorious for being gashed in the run game

This is what I was getting at in my post back to Yogi.

When you look at the depth chart for the interior of the DL who do we have?

Tonga is not Hicks or at least not at this point in time and while Jones may be a better run defender than Ogunjobi he was still their second option for a 3 tech DT. Blackson is a pretty solid NT type but who do we have to back Jones? Edwards? Can Kamara be moved from the edge to DT? We have enough potential talent on the edge but inside we look thin at least on paper.

Maybe Poles is banking on Ogunjobi recovering enough to play this year but if he really believed that would he have reneged on the offer we made? I believe Poles can find help at NT if needed but I don't see any top prospects for a 3 tech out there. In fact we're fortunate "Flus" was able to convince Jones to sign with us after we pulled out of the Ogunjobi deal. He was headed to Indy.

So we aren't the only team looking for that type of DL and we didn't draft one either. I'll be interested to see how Poles and "Flus" approach this because we're pretty thin at DT right now.

[dplank]

We could solve this fairly easily by bringing Hicks back. He's certainly seen what his market value is by now, so unless it's a "chase a ring" sort of scenario we should have dibs on bringing him back - he loves the city and the city loves him. Low cost move that would shore up our interior, and with the other guys we have our depth would be more than capable of handling things when he inevitably gets dinged up. Plus, we could rotate him in and out more often than in the past and maybe keep him a little healthier.

[Moriarty]

Hicks doesn't help 3T any, which is more understaffed.

Yeah, he'd improve 1T some - in a year where you're not winning anything anyway.
He's old and 1T is tolerable already. I wouldn't.

[Bearfacts]

I would probably disagree that he can't help. Hicks may not be a gap shooting 3 Tech but he's so naturally strong he can penetrate with his size and strength and has before. It looks like they're counting on Blackson to fill that role as a 1 tech and Tonga more as pure NT but if he's 100% healthy Hicks is much better than Blackson and give Flus another pass rush option as well.

He could sign him but I also believe he would more than likely be a last resort much like Jason Peters was last season. It's more likely Poles will wait to see who gets let go by other teams first before he would bring back an aging player he let go. Then there's always the question of whether or not the door is still open for Ogunjobi to sign when he's recovered from his injury if he recovers.

Personally I would do it and give Akiem a chance to go out as a Bear with one more season as a rotational guy but that flies in the face of Poles youth movement.

[dplank]

Hicks ability to rush the passer has always been his quickness inside. I believe he could play both 1T and 3T, and be good at both. Plus he pushes other players down a peg for that all important depth that we know we will need at some point, but rarely have we ever actually planned for it. This would be a very low cost move with near zero downside.

[Moriarty]

I also find it mind-blowing that he's still unsigned.

I feel like there has to be something significant behind the scenes - would rather retire than play for less than X dollars, has a severely degenerative joint, loves Chicago so much he desperately wants any offer to stay - I don't know what. But he's too good to be floating around and didn't miss that much time.

[Yogi da Bear]

This is what I'm worried about when Roquan is unprotected. Don't get me wrong. I LOVE Roquan. But I also remember the trouble that Urlacher had adjusting when he didn't have the big fatties up front protecting him. And right now, Roquan doesn't shed blockers that well. He's really going to have to use his speed in the new system. I do think that he can do it, but I also believe that this is the biggest adjustment we're going to have to make. Even more than finding a true 3T. I sure hope Ogun can get healthy and we can sign him. It would help.


https://www.nfl.com/games/49ers-at-bear ... -tab=watch

[dplank]

This is what I'm worried about when Roquan is unprotected. Don't get me wrong. I LOVE Roquan. But I also remember the trouble that Urlacher had adjusting when he didn't have the big fatties up front protecting him. And right now, Roquan doesn't shed blockers that well. He's really going to have to use his speed in the new system. I do think that he can do it, but I also believe that this is the biggest adjustment we're going to have to make. Even more than finding a true 3T. I sure hope Ogun can get healthy and we can sign him. It would help.


https://www.nfl.com/games/49ers-at-bear ... -tab=watch

Even the great Ray Lewis struggled when the defense didn't have really strong bodies at DT to keep guys off him and let him roam freely. And Roquan is a smaller dude, not nearly the physical specimen that Urlacher was, not even as big as Lewis who wasn't a super big guy himself. Roquan can play, and I absolutely love him, but he can get swallowed up by blockers and is a better chase and cover guy than a "thumper".

I see this exactly the same way as you Yogi.

[Bearfacts]

Here's another one of those thoughts I often have while laying awake waiting for sleep to overtake me.

Why not give Sam Kamara a shot at playing the 3 tech DT spot. He's listed at 6'2"/288lbs so he's within the range many 3 tech DT play at and his scouting report tends to make him a pretty ideal prospect for that role. It even projects him as that in the NFL.

Sam Kamara NFL Draft Scouting Report | Defensive Line

Positives: Quick, explosive defensive lineman who gets the most from his ability. Fires off the snap, plays with terrific pad level, and fluidly moves about the field. Displays good change-of-direction skills and smoothly gets down the line of scrimmage or out in space pursuing plays. Keeps his hands active and slices between blocks to get behind the line of scrimmage and make plays on the ball handler. Keeps his feet moving and gets a lot of momentum going up the field. Resilient.

Negatives: Lacks size as well as bulk. Easily disrupted from the action or knocked back by blocks. Has growth limitations.

Analysis: Kamara is a hard-working defensive line prospect who comes with size limitations. His quickness off the snap and ability to move laterally project him to the 3-technique spot at the next level, where Kamara could make a roster as a backup.

[Bearfacts]

I also find it mind-blowing that he's still unsigned.

I feel like there has to be something significant behind the scenes - would rather retire than play for less than X dollars, has a severely degenerative joint, loves Chicago so much he desperately wants any offer to stay - I don't know what. But he's too good to be floating around and didn't miss that much time.

I'm a little puzzled as well. Even with missing 8 games last season he was back on target for 6.5-7 sacks, 17 hits, and 9 TFL. That's not all that far off from his 2018 numbers when projected out over 17 games. There has to be a reason he's still unsigned.

[HurricaneBear]

As a few of us have said before, Hicks isn't worth what he brings to the team anymore. Projections are nice, but what actually has happened is more important. Hicks gets banged up early in the season, and tries his best to play thru it. However this severally limits him as the season wears on and instead of having filled his spot the Bears were stuck without an answer. Hicks is not a big loss to this team at all. If it were 2018 Hicks sure. But that guy is gone and never returning. The Hicks of the past few years makes a play here or there while having numerous times he stands up at the los and does nothing because he is gassed and won't get off the field. Or the stupid penalities. When you add on that Poles is quiet clearly purging the Bears of Nagy and the leaders from the Nagy area, it makes even more sense while the most vocal of those leaders would not be brought back. That spot is MUCH better served evaluating the players we have. Not wasting it on a player that wont even be here when things matter.

Hicks is not signed because he wants more than he's worth and the league is agreeing. He is the PERFECT candidate tho to make noise by signing on a contender like mid season. Then he may actually be healthy enough to contribute when it matters. The small part of me that loved 2018 Hicks hopes he can do that....as long as it's not the Packers.

[Atkins&Rebel]

Hicks probably wants to get into pre season before he commits to a team. As a guy who probably wants a good situation and limit the abuse his body takes in camp, he's just biding his time.

[Bearfacts]

As a few of us have said before, Hicks isn't worth what he brings to the team anymore. Projections are nice, but what actually has happened is more important. Hicks gets banged up early in the season, and tries his best to play thru it. However this severally limits him as the season wears on and instead of having filled his spot the Bears were stuck without an answer. Hicks is not a big loss to this team at all. If it were 2018 Hicks sure. But that guy is gone and never returning. The Hicks of the past few years makes a play here or there while having numerous times he stands up at the los and does nothing because he is gassed and won't get off the field. Or the stupid penalities. When you add on that Poles is quiet clearly purging the Bears of Nagy and the leaders from the Nagy area, it makes even more sense while the most vocal of those leaders would not be brought back. That spot is MUCH better served evaluating the players we have. Not wasting it on a player that wont even be here when things matter.

Hicks is not signed because he wants more than he's worth and the league is agreeing. He is the PERFECT candidate tho to make noise by signing on a contender like mid season. Then he may actually be healthy enough to contribute when it matters. The small part of me that loved 2018 Hicks hopes he can do that....as long as it's not the Packers.

So uh......don't sign him but hope he doesn't sign with GB? That possibility will always exist no matter how unlikely.

If Hicks was to return, and I don't believe he will, it would be as a player in a DL rotation so no one would be counting on him to play 75% or 80% of the snaps any longer. For that reason he wouldn't be paid like a full time player either. IMHO that may be the bigger hangup with him not signing anywhere or he's simply hanging out waiting 'til OTA are over so he can avoid that and sign somewhere once camps begin.

I can only say what I believe and that is there's no doubt he could help out DL even as a rotational player but also believe his ship has sailed as far as ever being a Bear again. I think Poles would look at other solutions before bringing back Hick but I also refuse to say it can never happen.

[HurricaneBear]

As a few of us have said before, Hicks isn't worth what he brings to the team anymore. Projections are nice, but what actually has happened is more important. Hicks gets banged up early in the season, and tries his best to play thru it. However this severally limits him as the season wears on and instead of having filled his spot the Bears were stuck without an answer. Hicks is not a big loss to this team at all. If it were 2018 Hicks sure. But that guy is gone and never returning. The Hicks of the past few years makes a play here or there while having numerous times he stands up at the los and does nothing because he is gassed and won't get off the field. Or the stupid penalities. When you add on that Poles is quiet clearly purging the Bears of Nagy and the leaders from the Nagy area, it makes even more sense while the most vocal of those leaders would not be brought back. That spot is MUCH better served evaluating the players we have. Not wasting it on a player that wont even be here when things matter.

Hicks is not signed because he wants more than he's worth and the league is agreeing. He is the PERFECT candidate tho to make noise by signing on a contender like mid season. Then he may actually be healthy enough to contribute when it matters. The small part of me that loved 2018 Hicks hopes he can do that....as long as it's not the Packers.

So uh......don't sign him but hope he doesn't sign with GB? That possibility will always exist no matter how unlikely.

If Hicks was to return, and I don't believe he will, it would be as a player in a DL rotation so no one would be counting on him to play 75% or 80% of the snaps any longer. For that reason he wouldn't be paid like a full time player either. IMHO that may be the bigger hangup with him not signing anywhere or he's simply hanging out waiting 'til OTA are over so he can avoid that and sign somewhere once camps begin.

I can only say what I believe and that is there's no doubt he could help out DL even as a rotational player but also believe his ship has sailed as far as ever being a Bear again. I think Poles would look at other solutions before bringing back Hick but I also refuse to say it can never happen.

What's wrong with not wanting to sign him but hoping he doesn't sign with Green Bay? Do you like watching ex Bears on the Packers? It's quiet a common thing for Bears fans to not want ex players to go to the Pack and vice versa. Im pretty confident Akeim Hicks doesn't change the outcome of the Packers two victories this upcoming season over Chicago. Not really sure what your trying to get at with that comment.

I think we have different definitions on what "help" is for this team this season. I don't see it as help to give old players who won't be on the team post 2023 reps. Hicks, Mack, Quinn if they trade him - all fine by me. This season is about rebuilding. The old guard doesn't amount to help to me, even in a rotational role. I believe you are talking "help" in the sense that Hicks even with the flaws I see in him is a better player today than Tonga or Blackmon or the rest. I don't disagree that today he is. But I don't care about today. I care about seeing what those young guys can do and if they should be on the team in 2023. With those two different views on what "help" is for this team, we will probably never agree on these older players. And thats ok.

[Bearfacts]

So uh......don't sign him but hope he doesn't sign with GB? That possibility will always exist no matter how unlikely.

If Hicks was to return, and I don't believe he will, it would be as a player in a DL rotation so no one would be counting on him to play 75% or 80% of the snaps any longer. For that reason he wouldn't be paid like a full time player either. IMHO that may be the bigger hangup with him not signing anywhere or he's simply hanging out waiting 'til OTA are over so he can avoid that and sign somewhere once camps begin.

I can only say what I believe and that is there's no doubt he could help out DL even as a rotational player but also believe his ship has sailed as far as ever being a Bear again. I think Poles would look at other solutions before bringing back Hick but I also refuse to say it can never happen.

What's wrong with not wanting to sign him but hoping he doesn't sign with Green Bay? Do you like watching ex Bears on the Packers? It's quiet a common thing for Bears fans to not want ex players to go to the Pack and vice versa. Im pretty confident Akeim Hicks doesn't change the outcome of the Packers two victories this upcoming season over Chicago. Not really sure what your trying to get at with that comment.

I think we have different definitions on what "help" is for this team this season. I don't see it as help to give old players who won't be on the team post 2023 reps. Hicks, Mack, Quinn if they trade him - all fine by me. This season is about rebuilding. The old guard doesn't amount to help to me, even in a rotational role. I believe you are talking "help" in the sense that Hicks even with the flaws I see in him is a better player today than Tonga or Blackmon or the rest. I don't disagree that today he is. But I don't care about today. I care about seeing what those young guys can do and if they should be on the team in 2023. With those two different views on what "help" is for this team, we will probably never agree on these older players. And thats ok.

What I meant is we can't control where he signs and if it's GB then it is. I dunno. I'd rather not play against him but we have no choice.

Yup. He is a better player than Blackson for certain even at this stage of his career. We also don't have much of anything behind Blackson whose also an 8 year vet so he's already all he will ever be. Playing his usual position Hicks would not be taking reps from a younger rookie player.

Tonga is so far a NT. That's also not where Hicks would play so here as well I don't see him taking reps from him. Tonga would in all likelihood be a 2 down player with Hicks subbing on passing downs as a 1 tech or 3 tech DT. A bigger question might be would Hicks be satisfied with that role in a rotation and with the pay that goes with it? Maybe not.

Behind these two who do we have? Locale London, Azoyah Alufohai, Micah Dew-Treadway? None of whom has ever made an NFL roster for more than three games and all were initially UFDA. I'm not really worried about any of these guys losing snaps. I'm more concerned about not getting more experienced depth at DT than these guys but it doesn't have to be Hicks.

[HurricaneBear]

What's wrong with not wanting to sign him but hoping he doesn't sign with Green Bay? Do you like watching ex Bears on the Packers? It's quiet a common thing for Bears fans to not want ex players to go to the Pack and vice versa. Im pretty confident Akeim Hicks doesn't change the outcome of the Packers two victories this upcoming season over Chicago. Not really sure what your trying to get at with that comment.

I think we have different definitions on what "help" is for this team this season. I don't see it as help to give old players who won't be on the team post 2023 reps. Hicks, Mack, Quinn if they trade him - all fine by me. This season is about rebuilding. The old guard doesn't amount to help to me, even in a rotational role. I believe you are talking "help" in the sense that Hicks even with the flaws I see in him is a better player today than Tonga or Blackmon or the rest. I don't disagree that today he is. But I don't care about today. I care about seeing what those young guys can do and if they should be on the team in 2023. With those two different views on what "help" is for this team, we will probably never agree on these older players. And thats ok.

What I meant is we can't control where he signs and if it's GB then it is. I dunno. I'd rather not play against him but we have no choice.

Yup. He is a better player than Blackson for certain even at this stage of his career. We also don't have much of anything behind Blackson whose also an 8 year vet so he's already all he will ever be. Playing his usual position Hicks would not be taking reps from a younger rookie player.

Tonga is so far a NT. That's also not where Hicks would play so here as well I don't see him taking reps from him. Tonga would in all likelihood be a 2 down player with Hicks subbing on passing downs as a 1 tech or 3 tech DT. A bigger question might be would Hicks be satisfied with that role in a rotation and with the pay that goes with it? Maybe not.

Behind these two who do we have? Locale London, Azoyah Alufohai, Micah Dew-Treadway? None of whom has ever made an NFL roster for more than three games and all were initially UFDA. I'm not really worried about any of these guys losing snaps. I'm more concerned about not getting more experienced depth at DT than these guys but it doesn't have to be Hicks.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but Justin Jones is our starting 3tech right now is he not? He's a pretty important piece to the D you are forgetting. I'd rather have Jones, Tonga, Blackson(who while an 8 year vet also has a better chance to be here at 29 than Hicks 32 with a ton of mileage) and some combination of those young guys you mentioned over Hicks taking snaps on a non playoff team. If this team were competing for a Super Bowl I could maybe get behind Hicks at less than he made last season. But that is not this Bears team.

Signing another DT that is under 30 and could figure into the next 3-5 years I would not have an issue with so I think we agree there.

[RichH55]

It'll be interesting to see how "Flus" approaches this as far as his LB are concerned. Both Smith and Morrow are smaller than Briggs was and much smaller than Urlacher. Even Urlacher struggled a bit initially when Lovie arrived and he lost the protection of his two monster DT Traylor and Washington.

Roquan especially seemed to have a problem when a blocker had unrestricted access to him.

This is pretty much all LB. If the Offense can get OL on a LB - that is a matchup the offense will take 8 days a week

[dplank]

Very true.

[Bearfacts]

What I meant is we can't control where he signs and if it's GB then it is. I dunno. I'd rather not play against him but we have no choice.

Yup. He is a better player than Blackson for certain even at this stage of his career. We also don't have much of anything behind Blackson whose also an 8 year vet so he's already all he will ever be. Playing his usual position Hicks would not be taking reps from a younger rookie player.

Tonga is so far a NT. That's also not where Hicks would play so here as well I don't see him taking reps from him. Tonga would in all likelihood be a 2 down player with Hicks subbing on passing downs as a 1 tech or 3 tech DT. A bigger question might be would Hicks be satisfied with that role in a rotation and with the pay that goes with it? Maybe not.

Behind these two who do we have? Locale London, Azoyah Alufohai, Micah Dew-Treadway? None of whom has ever made an NFL roster for more than three games and all were initially UFDA. I'm not really worried about any of these guys losing snaps. I'm more concerned about not getting more experienced depth at DT than these guys but it doesn't have to be Hicks.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but Justin Jones is our starting 3tech right now is he not? He's a pretty important piece to the D you are forgetting. I'd rather have Jones, Tonga, Blackson(who while an 8 year vet also has a better chance to be here at 29 than Hicks 32 with a ton of mileage) and some combination of those young guys you mentioned over Hicks taking snaps on a non playoff team. If this team were competing for a Super Bowl I could maybe get behind Hicks at less than he made last season. But that is not this Bears team.

Signing another DT that is under 30 and could figure into the next 3-5 years I would not have an issue with so I think we agree there.

But who? Guys who can play the 3 tech positions are in short supply. We had to jump to Jones fast and get Flus to talk him into coming to Chicago and not Indy once the deal with Ogunjobi fell through and while Jones isn't just a lump on a log at least statistically he's not as good as Ogunjobi by a fair amount. Tell me where at this point in time you'd find one?

Any team who has a guy like that isn't likely to put him on the street now. We found out with Ogunjobi why Cincy didn't move to re-sign him because they were also concerned about his recovery from a Lis Franc injury and Poles opted out once he could confirm it as well. We aren't looking for an under 30 guy to sign for 3-5 years. What we need is a one year DL patch that Hicks could be.

You will never convince me that Blackson can be another Akiem Hicks. If that was the case he would have passed Hicks on the depth chart. He's a solid DT who plays the run well and can give you some push as a pass rusher but he's no Akiem Hicks when Hicks is healthy. IMHO that's all it comes down to brother. If we knew Hicks could give us 17 games as a part time guy he's worth it.

I agree that we're not competing for a SB but all I'm talking about here is adding depth to the interior of the DL especially when our entire group of DE tend to rank pretty poorly as run defenders. That leaves us a but vulnerable to outside rushes so it would be nice not to get gashed up the middle as well. It doesn't have to be Hicks but I think it has to be someone. We need more depth.

[HurricaneBear]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but Justin Jones is our starting 3tech right now is he not? He's a pretty important piece to the D you are forgetting. I'd rather have Jones, Tonga, Blackson(who while an 8 year vet also has a better chance to be here at 29 than Hicks 32 with a ton of mileage) and some combination of those young guys you mentioned over Hicks taking snaps on a non playoff team. If this team were competing for a Super Bowl I could maybe get behind Hicks at less than he made last season. But that is not this Bears team.

Signing another DT that is under 30 and could figure into the next 3-5 years I would not have an issue with so I think we agree there.

But who? Guys who can play the 3 tech positions are in short supply. We had to jump to Jones fast and get Flus to talk him into coming to Chicago and not Indy once the deal with Ogunjobi fell through and while Jones isn't just a lump on a log at least statistically he's not as good as Ogunjobi by a fair amount. Tell me where at this point in time you'd find one?

Any team who has a guy like that isn't likely to put him on the street now. We found out with Ogunjobi why Cincy didn't move to re-sign him because they were also concerned about his recovery from a Lis Franc injury and Poles opted out once he could confirm it as well. We aren't looking for an under 30 guy to sign for 3-5 years. What we need is a one year DL patch that Hicks could be.

You will never convince me that Blackson can be another Akiem Hicks. If that was the case he would have passed Hicks on the depth chart. He's a solid DT who plays the run well and can give you some push as a pass rusher but he's no Akiem Hicks when Hicks is healthy. IMHO that's all it comes down to brother. If we knew Hicks could give us 17 games as a part time guy he's worth it.

I agree that we're not competing for a SB but all I'm talking about here is adding depth to the interior of the DL especially when our entire group of DE tend to rank pretty poorly as run defenders. That leaves us a but vulnerable to outside rushes so it would be nice not to get gashed up the middle as well. It doesn't have to be Hicks but I think it has to be someone. We need more depth.

I can't give you a name because it's not important to me. If they signed someone who fit the criteria I listed, I would have no issues. If they sign no one I am fine with that. So we have to be less vulnerable against the run this season? Why? Why is that so important THIS season. Wins and losses, this season, do not matter to me. The development of young players does. I'd much rather see more jones and Tonga with some rotation of the rest than an old Hicks.

You keep getting stuck on thinking I'm trying to convince you about something I'm not. The defense needs to be built around 3 people - Roquan, one of the young secondary guys(Brisker? Maybe?) And a dline that is not on the roster this season unless Jones becomes that player. After that my belief is the rest of the D should be a rotation of young hungry guys and future moneys put towards the offense. I've long been pounding the table for ending the reliance on defense in Chicago and focusing on the offense.

I think you are far too focused on either emotional attachment to Hicks(which I clearly don't have) or maybe scrapping one(?) extra win out if Hicks is even worth that. I personally don't care about our record this season and would honestly prefer us to finish with a pretty high draft pick. I want a season of a young scrappy team that falls just short in a lot of close games(maybe because we were too weak against the run?) And closes by winning like 3 or 4 straight. 5 maybe 6 wins, that is what I envision this year. I want Justin Fields and the offense to be the focal point of the team. I want to build something this year that makes next year a legit shot at opening a playoff window.

As you said no one left gives us that. So why worry? This isn't the season for worrying about being a little bit better in one area, on(imo) the wrong side of the ball. Poles time would much better be suited to combing for any offensive position, to me at least, than a defensive player.

As I said, I think we just have a much different view on where we see this team and what we want from it. Nothing wrong with that