Bears Training Camp News and Stuff

[dplank]

I don’t want to give up draft capital for him vs signing a FA for no picks.

[karhu]

Yeah...he's unhappy in Miami, they're pretty stocked last I checked at WR, and injuries have limited him to < 800 yards in three years. This sounds like a story floated by his agent, and I hope it is. Wouldn't mind signing him, but only off waivers.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

I just can't see wanting/allowing any short term vet coming in and taking away Velus' reps in the slot. I know Pringle will play the slot a lot - but I've been expecting him to be the primary X (and I believe he did play about 1/3 of his snaps in KC from there).

Velus is a burner, and he is a lot younger than Beasley. I want to see what he can do from the slot before you go out and sign some 35 year old. We drafted him in the 3rd round, let's give him a chance.

[Z Bear]

Pringle is the slot guy Velus is competing with, from everything I have read and listned to EQ SB is the 2 lining up on the outside.

[Shadow]

ESB and Dazz should get a fair shot at showing what they got. Velus is there too and with Mooney they have a core that may be servicable.
A one year, prove it, deal for Will Fuller would be okay with me. Low risk - high reward type of thing.
Cutting Harry at this point is premature though. A 2024 7th is still an investment and IR is a possibility for now.
Fins have two receivers on offer, so just wait for them to be cut.
Don't go all Ryan Pace and give up a bunch to get anyone.
Bears are not competing for anything this year anyway. Rebuilding teams do not need to splurge early, wait till cuts roll around and then scoop up some prospective pieces.
Just my opinion....

[IE]

Pringle is the slot guy Velus is competing with, from everything I have read and listned to EQ SB is the 2 lining up on the outside.

Velus said they've lined him up everywhere. They even said in the backfield for him. I know that type of thing is an exception and you're talking about "most of the time". I think you're right that Pringle and Velus are the two primary slot guys, and ESB might primarily be the X (and maybe backing up Mooney at Z). But you know all that doesn't mean we won't see Pringle and Velus on the field at the same time. I think in the infrequent 3 WR sets the only consistent guy will be Mooney and then X will be a split of Pringle/ESB (I think Pringle more because he's more versatile) and then Pringle/Velus rotation in the slot.

I think we're going to see more 2-RB sets and 2-TE sets than 3-WR.

[IE]

ESB and Dazz should get a fair shot at showing what they got. Velus is there too and with Mooney they have a core that may be servicable.
A one year, prove it, deal for Will Fuller would be okay with me. Low risk - high reward type of thing.
Cutting Harry at this point is premature though. A 2024 7th is still an investment and IR is a possibility for now.
Fins have two receivers on offer, so just wait for them to be cut.
Don't go all Ryan Pace and give up a bunch to get anyone.
Bears are not competing for anything this year anyway. Rwebuilding teams do not need to plurge early, wait till cuts roll around and then scoop up some prospective pieces.
Just my opinion....

I think Bear fans are snakebit on WRs and unnecessarily cynical with very low expecations. But this isn't Kendall Wright or Damiere Byrd or Javon Wimms out there. This is a far more formidable WR group than we've seen for a while, and they'll be a lot more than serviceable if JF1 is progressing like we hear from camp (it is camp but there are enough specifics to believe a lot of it).

I haven't heard any suggestion that Harry be cut from any corner. That would be sort of nuts.

I'm guessing Fuller V would be on a roster by now if he wanted, but is holding out for more money than the Bears would want to guarantee him. It is not really plausible they haven't enquired.

[Shadow]

ESB and Dazz should get a fair shot at showing what they got. Velus is there too and with Mooney they have a core that may be servicable.
A one year, prove it, deal for Will Fuller would be okay with me. Low risk - high reward type of thing.
Cutting Harry at this point is premature though. A 2024 7th is still an investment and IR is a possibility for now.
Fins have two receivers on offer, so just wait for them to be cut.
Don't go all Ryan Pace and give up a bunch to get anyone.
Bears are not competing for anything this year anyway. Rwebuilding teams do not need to plurge early, wait till cuts roll around and then scoop up some prospective pieces.
Just my opinion....

I think Bear fans are snakebit on WRs and unnecessarily cynical with very low expecations. But this isn't Kendall Wright or Damiere Byrd or Javon Wimms out there. This is a far more formidable WR group than we've seen for a while, and they'll be a lot more than serviceable if JF1 is progressing like we hear from camp (it is camp but there are enough specifics to believe a lot of it).

I haven't heard any suggestion that Harry be cut from any corner. That would be sort of nuts.

I'm guessing Fuller V would be on a roster by now if he wanted, but is holding out for more money than the Bears would want to guarantee him. It is not really plausible they haven't enquired.

I was just responding to the posts above mine as to Harry getting cut. I see this group as better than any WR group we have had in a while. I am from the school of "Lets find some new young talent" versus the school of "Lets drag in some older veterans because they are currently available". Outside of Brandon Marshall the Bears have not had much luck with retread WR markets. Bears are only going to win 4-6 games this year anyway, let the youngster play and develope is my thinking.

[Moriarty]

I think Bear fans are snakebit on WRs and unnecessarily cynical with very low expecations. But this isn't Kendall Wright or Damiere Byrd or Javon Wimms out there.

Wimms I'll certainly grant.
Byrd was only a backup and none of the guys who are going to be backups this year have produced anything beyond what he has.
Kendall Wright blows away what this year's backups have ever done. Mooney has outperformed him and maybe Pringle will - but it requires a step up to do it.

[IE]

I think Bear fans are snakebit on WRs and unnecessarily cynical with very low expecations. But this isn't Kendall Wright or Damiere Byrd or Javon Wimms out there.

Wimms I'll certainly grant.
Byrd was only a backup and none of the guys who are going to be backups this year have produced anything beyond what he has.
Kendall Wright blows away what this year's backups have ever done. Mooney has outperformed him and maybe Pringle will - but it requires a step up to do it.

Sometimes things that are technically true also are laughable... like "Kendall Wright blows away..". In career stats accumulated - sure. But I'm talking BEARS version here, and not career because this is now and if we understand that Poles deliberately brought in guys because he felt they had underperformed for reasons that could be different now, or been in the wrong situation & had upside (not based on their stats), then we can't use their stats against them.

You think Byrd is better than Pettis or Sharpe? Are you willing to bet Pringle and ESB can't put up Kendall Wright numbers because they haven't before? I'd wager a large sum that if Pringle had Wright's 140(!) attempts he could far exceed Wright's performance. I hope we see it (not 140 but yeah - 100). I whole-heartedly disagree & I'm pretty confident that this WR crew is better than many that have trotted out there - and I'll include the Marshall-less ones that featured Jeffrey in that "many".

[Moriarty]

Wimms I'll certainly grant.
Byrd was only a backup and none of the guys who are going to be backups this year have produced anything beyond what he has.
Kendall Wright blows away what this year's backups have ever done. Mooney has outperformed him and maybe Pringle will - but it requires a step up to do it.

Sometimes things that are technically true also are laughable... like "Kendall Wright blows away..". In career stats accumulated - sure. But I'm talking BEARS version here, and not career because this is now and if we understand that Poles deliberately brought in guys because he felt they had underperformed for reasons that could be different now, or been in the wrong situation & had upside (not based on their stats), then we can't use their stats against them.

You think Byrd is better than Pettis or Sharpe? Are you willing to bet Pringle and ESB can't put up Kendall Wright numbers because they haven't before? I'd wager a large sum that if Pringle had Wright's 140(!) attempts he could far exceed Wright's performance. I hope we see it (not 140 but yeah - 100). I whole-heartedly disagree & I'm pretty confident that this WR crew is better than many that have trotted out there - and I'll include the Marshall-less ones that featured Jeffrey in that "many".

I wouldn't call Byrd notably better than Pettis or Sharpe, but I certainly wouldn't call him notably worse, either.

For example, in the 3 years Byrd got meaningful playing time, he logged 1292 yds on 161 targets (8.02)
In the 4 yrs years Sharpe played, he had 1397 yds on 202 targets (6.91)

In the season you referenced, Kendall Wright had 139 targets for 1079 yards (7.76)
Last year, Darnell Mooney had 140 targets for 1055 yards (7.53)

You can't have it both ways and rip one guy for just "having attempts" then love another guy for the same performance.

[dplank]

Mooney was absolutely a “volume stats” guy last year. Targets need to go down and efficiency up. ARob was also a volume guy, so I agree letting him go because Mooney can do just as well with those opportunities at a much lesser cost. That doesn’t mean ARob won’t be missed on the field.

[Yogi da Bear]

Mooney was absolutely a “volume stats” guy last year. Targets need to go down and efficiency up. ARob was also a volume guy, so I agree letting him go because Mooney can do just as well with those opportunities at a much lesser cost. That doesn’t mean ARob won’t be missed on the field.

No he won't. He was already absent last year and he never did block, so.... Not going to miss him at all.

[dplank]

Mooney was absolutely a “volume stats” guy last year. Targets need to go down and efficiency up. ARob was also a volume guy, so I agree letting him go because Mooney can do just as well with those opportunities at a much lesser cost. That doesn’t mean ARob won’t be missed on the field.

No he won't. He was already absent last year and he never did block, so.... Not going to miss him at all.

I think we missed him pretty badly last year.

[Yogi da Bear]

No he won't. He was already absent last year and he never did block, so.... Not going to miss him at all.

I think we missed him pretty badly last year.

Did we? I don't know. Didn't see him. So I certainly won't miss him this year. Good Riddance.

[IE]

Sometimes things that are technically true also are laughable... like "Kendall Wright blows away..". In career stats accumulated - sure. But I'm talking BEARS version here, and not career because this is now and if we understand that Poles deliberately brought in guys because he felt they had underperformed for reasons that could be different now, or been in the wrong situation & had upside (not based on their stats), then we can't use their stats against them.

You think Byrd is better than Pettis or Sharpe? Are you willing to bet Pringle and ESB can't put up Kendall Wright numbers because they haven't before? I'd wager a large sum that if Pringle had Wright's 140(!) attempts he could far exceed Wright's performance. I hope we see it (not 140 but yeah - 100). I whole-heartedly disagree & I'm pretty confident that this WR crew is better than many that have trotted out there - and I'll include the Marshall-less ones that featured Jeffrey in that "many".

I wouldn't call Byrd notably better than Pettis or Sharpe, but I certainly wouldn't call him notably worse, either.

For example, in the 3 years Byrd got meaningful playing time, he logged 1292 yds on 161 targets (8.02)
In the 4 yrs years Sharpe played, he had 1397 yds on 202 targets (6.91)

In the season you referenced, Kendall Wright had 139 targets for 1079 yards (7.76)
Last year, Darnell Mooney had 140 targets for 1055 yards (7.53)

You can't have it both ways and rip one guy for just "having attempts" then love another guy for the same performance.

Go ahead and find me saying I think Mooney is special. If anything, I've said to be special he needs to exceed that level of production (and I don't mean more on more looks - I mean more on less or the same looks).

But again that was Wright's best season, and not his Bear season. I do think there are multiple players on this team that could meet or beat Wright's performance in his best season, given the chance he had. And accordingly my point was this group is, across the board, better than many groups that the Bears have fielded previously. I stand by that.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

I think Bear fans are snakebit on WRs

It's not just Bears fans who seem to be snakebit...

Bears down another WR as David Moore leaves practice with injury

The Bears’ wide receiver problems continued to mount Tuesday when David Mooreleft practice on a cart after suffering an apparent right leg injury during one-on-one drills.

That leaves the team with just eight healthy receivers, meaning it’s time to consider bringing in a free agent.

“You lose men on a 90-man roster, and it makes it difficult for the other guys,” coachMatt Eberflussaid. “We’ve got to just keep on working through it.”

Full article: https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2022 ... on-pringle

[Yogi da Bear]

I wouldn't call Byrd notably better than Pettis or Sharpe, but I certainly wouldn't call him notably worse, either.

For example, in the 3 years Byrd got meaningful playing time, he logged 1292 yds on 161 targets (8.02)
In the 4 yrs years Sharpe played, he had 1397 yds on 202 targets (6.91)

In the season you referenced, Kendall Wright had 139 targets for 1079 yards (7.76)
Last year, Darnell Mooney had 140 targets for 1055 yards (7.53)

You can't have it both ways and rip one guy for just "having attempts" then love another guy for the same performance.

Go ahead and find me saying I think Mooney is special. If anything, I've said to be special he needs to exceed that level of production (and I don't mean more on more looks - I mean more on less or the same looks).

But again that was Wright's best season, and not his Bear season. I do think there are multiple players on this team that could meet or beat Wright's performance in his best season, given the chance he had. And accordingly my point was this group is, across the board, better than many groups that the Bears have fielded previously. I stand by that.

I believe that Mooney is more special than you guys think:



Damn. Looks pretty special to me.

[IE]

Go ahead and find me saying I think Mooney is special. If anything, I've said to be special he needs to exceed that level of production (and I don't mean more on more looks - I mean more on less or the same looks).

But again that was Wright's best season, and not his Bear season. I do think there are multiple players on this team that could meet or beat Wright's performance in his best season, given the chance he had. And accordingly my point was this group is, across the board, better than many groups that the Bears have fielded previously. I stand by that.

I believe that Mooney is more special than you guys think:



Damn. Looks pretty special to me.

I've seen Anthony Miller make that catch too. More than once. For me special is making more out of equal opportunity. Literally value above replacement.

I LOVE Mooney. To be special as a WR he has to do more - he just does. Right now he's no more special than Hunter Renfrow. We all need him to do more. I think he can & hope he does.

[IE]

Slayton is a potential camp cut in NY due to numbers. That would have to be very interesting to the Bears even not as a stopgap, and I'd guess he'd be interested in rejoining Tyke. IMO he'd be the lead candidate for the 6th WR spot maybe 5th.

[RichH55]

I believe that Mooney is more special than you guys think:



Damn. Looks pretty special to me.

I've seen Anthony Miller make that catch too. More than once. For me special is making more out of equal opportunity. Literally value above replacement.

I LOVE Mooney. To be special as a WR he has to do more - he just does. Right now he's no more special than Hunter Renfrow. We all need him to do more. I think he can & hope he does.

Yep - don't scout from one highlight - its foolish

I have him better than Renfrow though - I have him at Tyler Lockett

[Rusty Trombagent]

I've seen Anthony Miller make that catch too. More than once. For me special is making more out of equal opportunity. Literally value above replacement.

I LOVE Mooney. To be special as a WR he has to do more - he just does. Right now he's no more special than Hunter Renfrow. We all need him to do more. I think he can & hope he does.

Yep - don't scout from one highlight - its foolish

I have him better than Renfrow though - I have him at Tyler Lockett

Tyler Lockett feels very fair to me. I worry he is going to exist in that hell that is top 5 wr2, but bottom tier WR1, which I'm going to call Alshon territory. Because those guys want to be paid like top tier wr's, and often there's somebody dumb/desperate enough to.

[dplank]

[wab]

Jenkins working at both T and G.

[Yogi da Bear]

Sadly, I was much more impressed with these clips. I can still remember thinking, "who is the fucking guy?"



The problem with Fuller is injuries, not talent. On the other hand, if we signed him, Harry should be healthy and read to come off IR about the time Fuller is injured.

You'll have to show me that equivalent catch by Miller IE. Haven't seen it, though Miller's problem was never talent, it was attitude and his penchant for improvising his routes.

I think that Lockett is probably a good comparison, RIGHT NOW, but Mooney has much more upside. Mooney just has to be more consistent and stop with the deflections that result in picks. Remember, last year, Mooney was our #1 while Lockett has always had Metcalf opposite him with Wilson throwing to him. Bet this time next year, you won't be making the same comparison, even with Metcalf still opposite him.

[IE]

Yep - don't scout from one highlight - its foolish

I have him better than Renfrow though - I have him at Tyler Lockett

Tyler Lockett feels very fair to me. I worry he is going to exist in that hell that is top 5 wr2, but bottom tier WR1, which I'm going to call Alshon territory. Because those guys want to be paid like top tier wr's, and often there's somebody dumb/desperate enough to.

Totally agree with the Alshon comp in terms of where Mooney risks peaking (and causing a bit of a financial problem - a #2 wanting to be paid like a #1). If you don't HAVE a 1 it isn't an excuse to pay your 2 the top money - get a #1.

At this point I don't agree re: Lockett. To me that comp is aspirational, and not what he "IS". I think we can "project" (aka wish/hope) that Mooney can be that consistent guy, and put up 1100 and 8-10 TDs on fewer catches than he's needed to get to his previous stats. Locket had over 20 fewer targets and better numbers all around. Mooney just plain isn't there yet - I'm comfortable saying that is a statistical fact. He isn't even Renfrow in terms of scoring stats and catch rates - let's be clear on that.

Almost everybody is projecting our guy to elevate - and we'll all be elated. But again I'm talking about what IS not what might be.

[IE]

You'll have to show me that equivalent catch by Miller IE. Haven't seen it, though Miller's problem was never talent, it was attitude and his penchant for improvising his routes.

OK here are a couple. I think Miller is one of my biggest recent lessons re: why you wait until a guy actually is something special before you give him credit - whether it is attitude or physical limitations or whatever.

[Yogi da Bear]

Good response IE. I never saw the college one I don't think. Not near as good as Mooney's though. The one against the Rams I must have forgot. Nearly as good as Mooney's, still not there yet though. Still, really good examples. Like I said though, Miller's problems weren't talent, they were attitude and playing to the system--being where he was supposed to be. Because of this, he never had even close to the statistical season that Mooney has had. Miller could have been "special" but he wasted it. Putting Mooney in the same boat is patently absurd. He's already shown the work with Fields, something I never saw with Miller. And yes, that Mooney catch was pretty fucking special. If he's going to be showing that consistently this year, you've already ate your words. You know, statistically, Mooney's first two years are extremely comparable to Tyreek Hill's with the exception of Catch %. Not a bad comp as far as I'm concerned:

[Moriarty]

You know, statistically, Mooney's first two years are extremely comparable to Tyreek Hill's with the exception of Catch %.

The only major similarity is their yardage numbers.

Mooney (yr 1+2)
98 tgts 61 rec 631 yds 6.44 y/t
140 tgts 81 rec 1055 yds 7.54 y/t

Tyreek (yr 1+2)
83 tgts 61 rec 593 yds 7.14 y/t
105 tgts 75 rec 1183 yds 11.27 y/t

A much better statistical comp for Mooney is ? (yr 1+2)
104 tgts 64 rec 626 yds 6.02 y/t
139 tgts 94 rec 1079 yds 7.76 y/t

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Oh boy...

David Montgomery joins list of injured Bears

Bears running back David Montgomery joined the ever-increasing list of Bears players to miss practice with an undisclosed injury, riding an exercise bike during practice Wednesday at Halas Hall.

Montgomery, who practiced Tuesday at Halas Hall, joined a growing list of injured players that includes receivers Velus Jones, Byron Pringle, N’Keal Harry and David Moore; tight end Cole Kmet; defensive lineman Mario Edwards Jr; and cornerbacks Kyler Gordon, Duke Shelley, Kindle Vildor, and Thomas Graham, Jr.

Full article: https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2022 ... elus-jones