I think this helps contextualize his signing pretty well too...
Riley Reiff Signed
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I'm a little startled at how much Reiff got. I suspect his agent and Poles were playing chicken on the deadline and probably Poles blinked a bit out of desperation.
From a value standpoint, Scholfield is certainly better than Reiff vs their 1 and 10M pricetags.
But, at the same time, I don't see any non-injury way Reiff isn't a starter for the majority of the season. Maybe they switch mid to late in the year (although I can easily imagine them not being eliminated until hitting 6-9 with only 2 games left). But this isn't something you do if you think Braxton is ready to go right away. Davenport and the other flotsam certainly isn't beating him. So that would mean Borom & Jenkins would both have to convincingly outplay him in preseason. Would be nice and all, but quite a longshot, IMO.
From a value standpoint, Scholfield is certainly better than Reiff vs their 1 and 10M pricetags.
But, at the same time, I don't see any non-injury way Reiff isn't a starter for the majority of the season. Maybe they switch mid to late in the year (although I can easily imagine them not being eliminated until hitting 6-9 with only 2 games left). But this isn't something you do if you think Braxton is ready to go right away. Davenport and the other flotsam certainly isn't beating him. So that would mean Borom & Jenkins would both have to convincingly outplay him in preseason. Would be nice and all, but quite a longshot, IMO.
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Reiff was a huge name coming out of college. One of the top T on the board that year. It seems like only a couple of years since he was drafted, but he's already 33 years old, so obviously my memory is a bit suspect. I think it's a great stop gap signing until they get Braxton up to speed, or draft someone else next year. Hopefully he stays healthy.
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Without a major prior move (if that is what this is - I'm not on board with Moriarty's characterization of this as a signing of a competent starter), it was a pretty solid assumption that Poles thought that the younger less experienced guys he's stockpiled were up to the task in his purview. Plus he had hedged reasonably with Davenport et al.
WITH a move like this, it looks like improvement on the surface. BUT it also sheds doubt - not ON Poles, but on the true ability of the prior depth. Not conclusive doubt - but material doubt. So THAT is a major bummer to me...the idea that Poles really always felt like he had to make a move, and now finally has. For me it dashed some reasonable assumptions.
Like I said here above in terms of how I'm going to choose to look at this (and it could be the case), Poles just saw an opportunity to improve depth and doesn't really need $25MM of dry powder going into the season. It is $10MM but it is free money. Especially since he's llkely to trade Quinn and offload a big chunk of that obligation as well. I'm going to choose to hope that this is like the championship Bulls having a few of those crusty old Piston pros on the bench during their runs, just in case.
Last edited by IE on Tue Jul 26, 2022 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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I think I figured it out.
The Master Plan must be to have five regular OL at the line of scrimmage like always.
Then, in some kind of Spartan Phalanx Formation, there are three additional OL about a yard behind them filling in the gap between LT and LG, RT and RG, and a floater.
The remaining three players must be Soldier Fields, 1 RB and 1 WR.
That might actually work. Why not? We've got like 20 OL on the roster now. Where's Bradley Sowell?
The Master Plan must be to have five regular OL at the line of scrimmage like always.
Then, in some kind of Spartan Phalanx Formation, there are three additional OL about a yard behind them filling in the gap between LT and LG, RT and RG, and a floater.
The remaining three players must be Soldier Fields, 1 RB and 1 WR.
That might actually work. Why not? We've got like 20 OL on the roster now. Where's Bradley Sowell?
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That's heavy, TMP.The Marshall Plan wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 3:39 pm I think I figured it out.
The Master Plan must be to have five regular OL at the line of scrimmage like always.
Then, in some kind of Spartan Phalanx Formation, there are three additional OL about a yard behind them filling in the gap between LT and LG, RT and RG, and a floater.
The remaining three players must be Soldier Fields, 1 RB and 1 WR.
That might actually work. Why not? We've got like 20 OL on the roster now. Where's Bradley Sowell?
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Reiff wasn’t guaranteed 10 million Adam Schefter just believed he’d achieve at least that much from the incentives.Moriarty wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 3:27 pm I'm a little startled at how much Reiff got. I suspect his agent and Poles were playing chicken on the deadline and probably Poles blinked a bit out of desperation.
From a value standpoint, Scholfield is certainly better than Reiff vs their 1 and 10M pricetags.
But, at the same time, I don't see any non-injury way Reiff isn't a starter for the majority of the season. Maybe they switch mid to late in the year (although I can easily imagine them not being eliminated until hitting 6-9 with only 2 games left). But this isn't something you do if you think Braxton is ready to go right away. Davenport and the other flotsam certainly isn't beating him. So that would mean Borom & Jenkins would both have to convincingly outplay him in preseason. Would be nice and all, but quite a longshot, IMO.
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I agree with your assessment.dplank wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:24 amThe way I see it TMP is this...we had a gaping hole at RG, and Poles clearly isn't sold on either Borom or Jenkins at T. The only viable backup at T is a 5th round rookie. Mustipher was pegged to freaking start at RG, with the only viable backups being 6th and 7th round rookies. It was a disaster waiting to happen despite some folks odd confidence in late round, unproven rookies. IIRC the logic was - if Poles saw them and hasn't added anyone, then we must believe Poles knows what he's doing and therefore these rookies are good players. LMAO. Now that he's added two guys, must we now believe that these rookies AREN'T good players? hahahaThe Marshall Plan wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:42 am Wasn't this guy part of the crew that almost got Joe Burrow killed?
Look, it isn't signing or drafting 10 guys for the OL that matters. You need the RIGHT people.
OK fine, yes Poles is supposed to try and continuously improve the team. The OL sucked last year. Everybody knew it.
Nothing was done in FA. Poles drafted like 5 guys, I don't know, and so now we get this.
I hope it works. But cast offs and low round draft picks are how we got to this problem in the first place.
So right now we're basically hoping that Poles is a better evaluator of talent than Pace.
Anyhow, I digress. What Poles has done here is raised a dangerously low performance floor. Schofield and Reiff aren't world beaters by any stretch, but they are competent players that can stabilize what we are doing. All while creating competition and still allowing for these rookies to go out in camp and take a job vs handing it to them and praying Fields survives. This Reiff move is a major shot across the bow for both Borom and Jenkins - I'll be hugely disappointed if Jenkins sucks and is the next Gabe Carimi as Rich said but that may very well be the case, we will find out soon. At 12M, you have to think Reiff is going to start at one of those two tackle spots.
My frustration comes from where was this sense of urgency during FA when good players were available?
We have $12M for Reiff? Armstead signed for $15M per (IIRC), our own guy Daniels was $9M to $10M. Scherff was out there and he signed for a similar annual value deal that Armstead did.
Reiff isn't better than those guys. Yes I know some of those are guards, but that's not my point.
Was he really that distracted by the Ogun thing? He couldn't have been.
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Yeah, it's just a ballpark. It'll take a few days for details.TheWorldBreaker wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 3:44 pmReiff wasn’t guaranteed 10 million Adam Schefter just believed he’d achieve at least that much from the incentives.Moriarty wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 3:27 pm I'm a little startled at how much Reiff got. I suspect his agent and Poles were playing chicken on the deadline and probably Poles blinked a bit out of desperation.
From a value standpoint, Scholfield is certainly better than Reiff vs their 1 and 10M pricetags.
But, at the same time, I don't see any non-injury way Reiff isn't a starter for the majority of the season. Maybe they switch mid to late in the year (although I can easily imagine them not being eliminated until hitting 6-9 with only 2 games left). But this isn't something you do if you think Braxton is ready to go right away. Davenport and the other flotsam certainly isn't beating him. So that would mean Borom & Jenkins would both have to convincingly outplay him in preseason. Would be nice and all, but quite a longshot, IMO.
What I've seen is ? guaranteed/10 LTBE/12.5 max, so 10 seems like a good point estimate.
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There was a lot of talent still available after the first round of FA. Poles went into the draft knowing there would be some pretty good talent available if he couldn't draft who he wanted. Then Borom showed a bit more than expected and he had to evaluate the rookies he did draft. So here we are. Poles has been a part of a pretty good front office and has seen guys added to rosters late in the process. He's not the type of guy to get panicky even if the fans are.The Marshall Plan wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 3:49 pmI agree with your assessment.dplank wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:24 am
The way I see it TMP is this...we had a gaping hole at RG, and Poles clearly isn't sold on either Borom or Jenkins at T. The only viable backup at T is a 5th round rookie. Mustipher was pegged to freaking start at RG, with the only viable backups being 6th and 7th round rookies. It was a disaster waiting to happen despite some folks odd confidence in late round, unproven rookies. IIRC the logic was - if Poles saw them and hasn't added anyone, then we must believe Poles knows what he's doing and therefore these rookies are good players. LMAO. Now that he's added two guys, must we now believe that these rookies AREN'T good players? hahaha
Anyhow, I digress. What Poles has done here is raised a dangerously low performance floor. Schofield and Reiff aren't world beaters by any stretch, but they are competent players that can stabilize what we are doing. All while creating competition and still allowing for these rookies to go out in camp and take a job vs handing it to them and praying Fields survives. This Reiff move is a major shot across the bow for both Borom and Jenkins - I'll be hugely disappointed if Jenkins sucks and is the next Gabe Carimi as Rich said but that may very well be the case, we will find out soon. At 12M, you have to think Reiff is going to start at one of those two tackle spots.
My frustration comes from where was this sense of urgency during FA when good players were available?
We have $12M for Reiff? Armstead signed for $15M per (IIRC), our own guy Daniels was $9M to $10M. Scherff was out there and he signed for a similar annual value deal that Armstead did.
Reiff isn't better than those guys. Yes I know some of those are guards, but that's not my point.
Was he really that distracted by the Ogun thing? He couldn't have been.
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The Marshall Plan wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 3:49 pm
I agree with your assessment.
My frustration comes from where was this sense of urgency during FA when good players were available?
We have $12M for Reiff? Armstead signed for $15M per (IIRC), our own guy Daniels was $9M to $10M. Scherff was out there and he signed for a similar annual value deal that Armstead did.
Reiff isn't better than those guys. Yes I know some of those are guards, but that's not my point.
Was he really that distracted by the Ogun thing? He couldn't have been.
Schofield and Reiff are just here to let Fields survive and work the offense for a year.
Armstead & Daniels both got multiyear deals. And Armstead only plays half the games and is old already.
I don't mind what he brought in at all (Patrick, Schofield, Reiff) - 3 solid stopgaps on short contracts.
I'll quibble a little on:
I do think it would be nice if Schofield, Reiff came in sooner (and I assume there was a real risk of them getting away by foot-dragging).
And I think Reiff's cost was probably something of an overpay.
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A little tidbit from the Trib:
“They need a guy like Reiff,” one personnel director said via text message. “He’s a hard ass and will be good in the locker room.”
That personnel director said word on the street was as many as three teams were pursuing Reiff, and now the Bears have a player that can potentially slide in at left tackle.
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Something occurred to me and so I searched to verify:
From 11 months ago (Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:02 am)
viewtopic.php?p=268715&hilit=Reiff#p268715
Boom.
(and Poles only had to commit to 1 year, which is nice)
From 11 months ago (Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:02 am)
viewtopic.php?p=268715&hilit=Reiff#p268715
Moriarty wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:02 amThere's a decent chance you can pull off a starting C (or maybe G) in R3, but the odds of getting a serious LT prospect at 45-50 are pretty bad. This past year was a real anomaly. And, I would imagine so many OTs coming out in 21 is just going to make the 2022 crop thinner than usual, if anything.
I'm already resigned to the free agency route, which I generally don't like. There's only one quality option for every team interested - and he's over 30 and may not even hit the market. But there are a number of adequate older stopgaps. Penciling in Reiff, Fischer, or Brown for 10Mish and 2-3 years.
Boom.
(and Poles only had to commit to 1 year, which is nice)
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It’s 3 million guaranteed another 4.5 if he plays and then other incentives based on offensive performance.Moriarty wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 3:56 pmYeah, it's just a ballpark. It'll take a few days for details.TheWorldBreaker wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 3:44 pm
Reiff wasn’t guaranteed 10 million Adam Schefter just believed he’d achieve at least that much from the incentives.
What I've seen is ? guaranteed/10 LTBE/12.5 max, so 10 seems like a good point estimate.
So 8.5 is the realistic number for next season if he doesn’t get injured in camp or game one.
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Thank God you have backed off the ledge DP.dplank wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:36 am Well, this is interesting. I have never been a Reiff fan, but admittedly that comes from seeing him suck for the Vikings and maybe he's a better player now.
I will have to admit that I was wrong to freak out so hard on the OL situation and many folks said that this is exactly what Poles would do - kudos to you all.
That said, everyone who began taking a stance recently of "stop asking for vets we need to see our young guys perform", were also wrong on that take. Poles is now putting vets in place to raise the floor that was dangerously low with a bunch of late round rookies. If the rookies can beat them out, great! But if they aren't ready, as this implies, then we aren't going to sacrifice Fields health just to get some rookies playing time for evaluation purposes.
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Thanks man.IE wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 3:40 pmThat's heavy, TMP.The Marshall Plan wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 3:39 pm I think I figured it out.
The Master Plan must be to have five regular OL at the line of scrimmage like always.
Then, in some kind of Spartan Phalanx Formation, there are three additional OL about a yard behind them filling in the gap between LT and LG, RT and RG, and a floater.
The remaining three players must be Soldier Fields, 1 RB and 1 WR.
That might actually work. Why not? We've got like 20 OL on the roster now. Where's Bradley Sowell?
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The Reiff contract is actually much more team friendly than initially reported:
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Well, we don't know what the 7M in incentives are, but I read from someone they were LTBE (therefore counting this year).TheWorldBreaker wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 8:48 am The Reiff contract is actually much more team friendly than initially reported:
With cap rollovers, it really doesn't matter if if counts 10M in 2022 or 3M/2022 + 7M/2023
(...unless he's still planning on making more big signings this year )
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It sucks that they cut it off when Merle started. lol
I wouldn't mind Getsy whipping out your heavy package at the goal line, for fun.
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$10m for a one year rental? Woof, I'm souring on Poles pretty quickly.
"I wouldn't take him for a conditional 7th. His next contract will pay him more than he could possibly contribute.".
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Twitter is saying (clearing up?) that the Reiff deal is a $3.5MM base with incentives that can reach up to $10MM depending on how much he plays... and maybe even some more that are highly unrealistic (e.g. playoff related). That is why people are saying he could make at most $10MM but the higher number is "out there" because it is on paper.
He's getting paid 3.5 guaranteed. To me this does look like nobody is being penciled in as the starter at T although his experience does give him an edge.
IF he earns $10MM because the other guys don't rise to the occasion, it is a good deal (especially for Getsy and JF1). If he ends up being the swing OT replacing Davenport or starts a smaller number of games as a sub... then it is a good deal.
IF this $3.5 is true, I am fully on board with Poles.
Last edited by IE on Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ok, I'll wind my neck back in a bit. Just a little tho.IE wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:35 amTwitter is saying (clearing up?) that the Reiff deal is a $3.5MM base with incentives that can reach up to $10MM depending on how much he plays... and maybe even some more that are highly unrealistic (e.g. playoff related). That is why people are saying he could make at most $10MM but the higher number is "out there" because it is on paper.
He's getting paid 3.5 guaranteed. To me this does look like nobody is being penciled in as the starter at T although his experience does give him an edge.
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so this is basically last year if pace wasnt dumb enough to cut Leno loose before insuring that jenkins/borom could play.
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Yes. IF Leno would have signed for a base of $3.5MM with the understanding he may not start.RustinFields wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:54 am so this is basically last year if pace wasnt dumb enough to cut Leno loose before insuring that jenkins/borom could play.
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Much better to pay 2.3 Mil in dead money last year (and 2.8mil this year!). He was cut, he was already under contract, it wasnt a matter of us not re-signing him. He only counted 6.2 Mil against the cap for Washington last year, which is probably less than what we're gonna pay for Reiff this year.IE wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:00 amYes. IF Leno would have signed for a base of $3.5MM with the understanding he may not start.RustinFields wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:54 am so this is basically last year if pace wasnt dumb enough to cut Leno loose before insuring that jenkins/borom could play.
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I'm not really concerned about the details of the money. My only point was the Leno situation would have been similar had the Bears been able to keep him cheaper.RustinFields wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:36 amMuch better to pay 2.3 Mil in dead money last year (and 2.8mil this year!). He was cut, he was already under contract, it wasnt a matter of us not re-signing him. He only counted 6.2 Mil against the cap for Washington last year, which is probably less than what we're gonna pay for Reiff this year.
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I think the cap hit this year will be 10M, he only needs to play 10% of snaps to hit the 6.5M bonus which is as someone else already pointed out considered "likely to be earned". I'm not a cap guy but I think that means we are on the hook for 10M unless he gets injured in camp or something.
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dplank wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:42 pm I think the cap hit this year will be 10M, he only needs to play 10% of snaps to hit the 6.5M bonus which is as someone else already pointed out considered "likely to be earned". I'm not a cap guy but I think that means we are on the hook for 10M unless he gets injured in camp or something.
It's a good situation because they don't have to feel like they have to play him because of the cost, and it is more of a level opportunity field than some of the media portrayed yesterday. Then at the same time if he earns that money it is more likely that the Bears needed him to, and that's good. I can rationalize that as being consistent with my previous view of Poles' plan. Which is all I want - to be able to be comfortable with the plan.
My biggest concern on the Oline right now is Jenk. I really like him. But I'm concerned he's not committed enough for them. Like I'm wondering if they were monitoring his weight and activities prior to camp even & already concluded he wasn't going to play weight loss ball with them.
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