New OL projection

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Yogi da Bear wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:23 pm I just gotta say. I loved Tevin Jenkins coming out. Loved when Pace traded up and drafted him. Was worried with his back last year and this training camp episode really got to me. But Tevin is rapidly becoming my favorite Bear lineman of all time. I just love watching him play. Here's to hoping he can stay healthy, and the Bear FO/Coaches don't completely alienate him. I really want him to be a Bear lifer at whatever position along the line he plays.
Yep he was a guy I started looking closer at once you had him in your picnic basket and was all in. Heck I was all in if we took him at 28!!!

I cant' agree more, he is an OL I love watching play because a few times every game he is going to make a play that make you go WOW!!!

I too would love to see him here long term, but as dplank (???) and maybe some other here have pointed out, does his style mess with what they want to do up front on the OL? To me he seems like a talent that can transcend schemes. But I'm not an OL expert like some of you guys are. Plus I too wonder if the idea of him being here long term has sailed with the coaches. For whatever reason, he fell far from grace and only got the opportunity he did due to injuries. But maybe he "Barry Minters" himself into stardom. (thought that was better reference than Wally Pipp).
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Looks like Whitehair and Borom will both be starting Sunday.
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Grizzled wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 6:51 pm Looks like Whitehair and Borom will both be starting Sunday.
Whitehair yes. Borom sounded less sure. Might see Reiff for another week.
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OK. Let's talk about 2023. What does the OL look like at the beginning of next season? Let's assume that the Bears go 7-10 and end up with the #12 overall pick. Ryan Poles was spotted at the OSU @ NU game in Evanston today, scouting out potential draft targets. Word is that he was keying in on the two best OT in the nation right now; Peter Skoronski for NU, and Paris Johnson Jr. for OSU. Both are prototypical OT with well balanced run and pass blocking skills. Skoronski is projected to go in the top 10 and PJJ in the top half of the draft. Let's say we have a shot at both. One interesting measurement - Skoronski has 32 1/4" arms, PJJ....35 3/4".

Here is how I see our OL for next year;
LT - Paris Johnson Jr.
LG - Alex Leatherwood
C - Dieter Eiselen or FA
RG - Teven Jenkins
RT - Braxton Jones

We will keep Patrick as a back-up, and cut Whitehair. By cutting him we end up with another $6M in cap space. Reiff may stick as a swing T and a veteran presence in the locker and meeting rooms.
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Bears Whiskey Nut wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2022 3:54 pm OK. Let's talk about 2023. What does the OL look like at the beginning of next season? Let's assume that the Bears go 7-10 and end up with the #12 overall pick. Ryan Poles was spotted at the OSU @ NU game in Evanston today, scouting out potential draft targets. Word is that he was keying in on the two best OT in the nation right now; Peter Skoronski for NU, and Paris Johnson Jr. for OSU. Both are prototypical OT with well balanced run and pass blocking skills. Skoronski is projected to go in the top 10 and PJJ in the top half of the draft. Let's say we have a shot at both. One interesting measurement - Skoronski has 32 1/4" arms, PJJ....35 3/4".

Here is how I see our OL for next year;
LT - Paris Johnson Jr.
LG - Alex Leatherwood
C - Dieter Eiselen or FA
RG - Teven Jenkins
RT - Braxton Jones

We will keep Patrick as a back-up, and cut Whitehair. By cutting him we end up with another $6M in cap space. Reiff may stick as a swing T and a veteran presence in the locker and meeting rooms.
No offense but are you insane? This line is worse then the current one.
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mmmc_35 wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2022 4:27 pm
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2022 3:54 pm OK. Let's talk about 2023. What does the OL look like at the beginning of next season? Let's assume that the Bears go 7-10 and end up with the #12 overall pick. Ryan Poles was spotted at the OSU @ NU game in Evanston today, scouting out potential draft targets. Word is that he was keying in on the two best OT in the nation right now; Peter Skoronski for NU, and Paris Johnson Jr. for OSU. Both are prototypical OT with well balanced run and pass blocking skills. Skoronski is projected to go in the top 10 and PJJ in the top half of the draft. Let's say we have a shot at both. One interesting measurement - Skoronski has 32 1/4" arms, PJJ....35 3/4".

Here is how I see our OL for next year;
LT - Paris Johnson Jr.
LG - Alex Leatherwood
C - Dieter Eiselen or FA
RG - Teven Jenkins
RT - Braxton Jones

We will keep Patrick as a back-up, and cut Whitehair. By cutting him we end up with another $6M in cap space. Reiff may stick as a swing T and a veteran presence in the locker and meeting rooms.
No offense but are you insane? This line is worse then the current one.
Medically? No.

How is it worse? Paris Johnson is going to be better than current Braxton Jones. Alex Leatherwood is more athletic and has a higher ceiling than Whitehair. We'll probably sign a top shelf C in FA. Jenkins is our best lineman right now. I think Jones has a higher ceiling than Borom, but who knows. The RT is the real question mark. You're telling me that's worse than Jones-Schofeld-Mustipher-Jenkins-Borom?
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Bears Whiskey Nut wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2022 4:40 pm
mmmc_35 wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2022 4:27 pm

No offense but are you insane? This line is worse then the current one.
Medically? No.

How is it worse? Paris Johnson is going to be better than current Braxton Jones. Alex Leatherwood is more athletic and has a higher ceiling than Whitehair. We'll probably sign a top shelf C in FA. Jenkins is our best lineman right now. I think Jones has a higher ceiling than Borom, but who knows. The RT is the real question mark. You're telling me that's worse than Jones-Schofeld-Mustipher-Jenkins-Borom?
Leatherwood hasn't proven he can play in this league. Dieter has less proof that he can then Mustipher. You kind of cover it with the "or a free agent". However based on your list you have him somehow above Patrick. Jones biggest struggle is strength. He gets moved to the side where he will need more strength. That line is terrible.
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Bears Whiskey Nut wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2022 4:40 pm
mmmc_35 wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2022 4:27 pm

No offense but are you insane? This line is worse then the current one.
Medically? No.

How is it worse? Paris Johnson is going to be better than current Braxton Jones. Alex Leatherwood is more athletic and has a higher ceiling than Whitehair. We'll probably sign a top shelf C in FA. Jenkins is our best lineman right now. I think Jones has a higher ceiling than Borom, but who knows. The RT is the real question mark. You're telling me that's worse than Jones-Schofeld-Mustipher-Jenkins-Borom?

Paris should be a quality player - though in this scenario I think he'd play RT as a Rookie and Leave Jones over on the Left Side (Rookies)

What top shelf C do you envision in FA - I ask because I am not sure I see one
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I think Whitehair sticks around. They use FA to upgrade RT, the draft to upgrade center.

Not sure what the future holds for Leatherwood though. He’s really only under contract through 2023.
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wab wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 3:17 pm I think Whitehair sticks around. They use FA to upgrade RT, the draft to upgrade center.

Not sure what the future holds for Leatherwood though. He’s really only under contract through 2023.
They have him through 2024, minimum.
And they still have another year and a half to decide if they want the 5yr option (which would push through 2025), if he's playing like a starter.
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Moriarty wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 4:36 pm
wab wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 3:17 pm I think Whitehair sticks around. They use FA to upgrade RT, the draft to upgrade center.

Not sure what the future holds for Leatherwood though. He’s really only under contract through 2023.
They have him through 2024, minimum.
And they still have another year and a half to decide if they want the 5yr option (which would push through 2025), if he's playing like a starter.
They don’t have to pay him after next year. There’s no dead money after 2023. They can choose to keep him, but they don’t have to.
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Sign a starting OT and a C.

Spend at least one pick on a OL. Where at or what position just depends how draft falls.

Tackles: FA, Jones, Borom, Diesch
Guards: Whitehair, Jenkins, Leatherwood, Carter, Thomas
Center: FA, Patrick, Eiselen, Kramer
+ Draft pick and some other minimum signings
(let Mustipher walk, he's a RFA)

If that draft pick is a Rd 1 OT, it just pushes Jones and Borom to backup territory. Otherwise they compete for the other spot.

If the draft pick is a mid round G, he is a development piece for when Whitehairs deal is finally done. If he's a solid C that makes Patrick expendable, fine.
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I thought the OL played good today all things considered
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wab wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 5:12 pm
Moriarty wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 4:36 pm

They have him through 2024, minimum.
And they still have another year and a half to decide if they want the 5yr option (which would push through 2025), if he's playing like a starter.
They don’t have to pay him after next year. There’s no dead money after 2023. They can choose to keep him, but they don’t have to.
Oh, that.

Actually, Spotrac has that right in 1 place and wrong in another. OTC has it right in both places.

https://en.as.com/nfl/nfl-draft-which-p ... ntracts-n/
For the past two draft classes, the entire contracts of the first 24 picks were fully guaranteed.
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wab wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 5:12 pm
Moriarty wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 4:36 pm

They have him through 2024, minimum.
And they still have another year and a half to decide if they want the 5yr option (which would push through 2025), if he's playing like a starter.
They don’t have to pay him after next year. There’s no dead money after 2023. They can choose to keep him, but they don’t have to.
I thought 2024 was fully guaranteed
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RichH55 wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 8:38 pm
wab wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 5:12 pm

They don’t have to pay him after next year. There’s no dead money after 2023. They can choose to keep him, but they don’t have to.
I thought 2024 was fully guaranteed
The site I looked at had it wrong. Moriarty is right.

(See how easy that is).
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wab wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 3:17 pm I think Whitehair sticks around. They use FA to upgrade RT, the draft to upgrade center.
I think this is likely the route they go. They bring in one free agent and a higher type draft pick.
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mmmc_35 wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 8:49 pm
wab wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 3:17 pm I think Whitehair sticks around. They use FA to upgrade RT, the draft to upgrade center.
I think this is likely the route they go. They bring in one free agent and a higher type draft pick.
Speaking of RT - I’m perfectly fine with Reiff finishing the season at RT. Money be damned.
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wab wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 8:51 pm
mmmc_35 wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 8:49 pm

I think this is likely the route they go. They bring in one free agent and a higher type draft pick.
Speaking of RT - I’m perfectly fine with Reiff finishing the season at RT. Money be damned.
I might disagree here- though maybe not that strongly
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RichH55 wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 8:54 pm
wab wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 8:51 pm

Speaking of RT - I’m perfectly fine with Reiff finishing the season at RT. Money be damned.
I might disagree here- though maybe not that strongly
He’s not great but I do think over the last two games, he’s at least been more consistent than I feel like Borom has been. Admittedly I don’t have any hard data to support this…just based on what I’m seeing on TV.

I’m interested to see if the Bears view Borom as part of the core of the OL.
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wab wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 9:06 pm
RichH55 wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 8:54 pm

I might disagree here- though maybe not that strongly
He’s not great but I do think over the last two games, he’s at least been more consistent than I feel like Borom has been. Admittedly I don’t have any hard data to support this…just based on what I’m seeing on TV.

I’m interested to see if the Bears view Borom as part of the core of the OL.
Yep - but then its kind of a twofer

You get more data on if Borom is (or isnt) that guy - And Save money
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Fair point. I think you are right, it’s probably best to see what Borom is over the remainder of the season, assuming it doesn’t hinder the continued progression of the QB.
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Seemed like Jones was getting pushed back late in the game. He's said he needs to improve his lower body strength, perhaps he's getting too tired as the game progress. I don't think Borom's going to be the long term answer at RT. If the Bears draft another OT highly, maybe they'll look at Jones at RT next year.
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Grizzled wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:02 am Seemed like Jones was getting pushed back late in the game. He's said he needs to improve his lower body strength, perhaps he's getting too tired as the game progress. I don't think Borom's going to be the long term answer at RT. If the Bears draft another OT highly, maybe they'll look at Jones at RT next year.
A few people have suggested Jones to RT.
But you typically face more speed rushers (his strength) from LT and more power rushers (his weakness) from RT.
So I see switching him probably making things worse, if anything.
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Moriarty wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 12:54 pm
Grizzled wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:02 am Seemed like Jones was getting pushed back late in the game. He's said he needs to improve his lower body strength, perhaps he's getting too tired as the game progress. I don't think Borom's going to be the long term answer at RT. If the Bears draft another OT highly, maybe they'll look at Jones at RT next year.
A few people have suggested Jones to RT.
But you typically face more speed rushers (his strength) from LT and more power rushers (his weakness) from RT.
So I see switching him probably making things worse, if anything.
Yeah, I don't know why they would spend an entire season developing him only to have him switch sides and have him learn the position all over again.

He's either the starting LT next year or he's not.
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They clearly really like Jones - and I think they really like him exclusively at LT because of his traits. So far he's outperformed what we should reasonably expect given his background, I think. I'm guessing they feel the same way, and they just view him getting bullied a bit as a development point that they can easily address (again - given his traits and upside).

I do think there is a good chance they "buy" a top LT next year if they can... not giving up on Jones but working on Jones for a year or two as heir apparent on the left (maybe make him the swing) because of his ostensible high ceiling. But I wouldn't be surprised if they kept Jones on the left next year under assumption he'll continue to get better, move Borom to swing (IMO his long-term role and I'd be really happy with that), and drafted or signed a RT (not Reiff but maybe extending Reiff).

I think Center is by far the biggest need on the Oline and they're either going to use a high pick or pay as much as they need to in order to stabilize pass protection at that position.
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I thought the entire OL played pretty well. It was really not until late in the game where the Dolphins were starting to get pressure.
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wab wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 1:08 pm
Moriarty wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 12:54 pm

A few people have suggested Jones to RT.
But you typically face more speed rushers (his strength) from LT and more power rushers (his weakness) from RT.
So I see switching him probably making things worse, if anything.
Yeah, I don't know why they would spend an entire season developing him only to have him switch sides and have him learn the position all over again.

He's either the starting LT next year or he's not.
These side decisions always end up way too narrowly focused. It's about getting your best 5 combination out there. Is the side a guy plays a consideration? Of course, but if you aren't open to flexibility you really narrow your options.
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wab wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 10:36 am
Platoon his ass 8-)
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