Update: Roquan traded to Ravens

[RichH55]

My take is, Roquan did not endear himself to Poles by calling him out this summer, saying he was negotiating in bad faith, and then going above his head to say McCaskey was the only one who could help him. Then this season, where it was on him to show he could thrive in the new defensive scheme, he had a one great game against the Texans, a bunch of good games, and a stinker against Dallas.

I think if he wasn't so set on being the highest-paid LB in the league, a contract would have been hammered out in the offseason or at the last, it would have been a much more difficult decision to trade him.

I think he’s just a better fit for a 3-4.

Alot less Bad Ass QBs blocking you in the 3-4

[Moriarty]

I think he’s just a better fit for a 3-4.

Alot less Bad Ass QBs blocking you in the 3-4

[dplank]

The Ravens fans I now (and I know a lot of them), have been thanking me profusely. They are ecstatic about the addition.

[Heinz D.]

The Ravens fans I now (and I know a lot of them), have been thanking me profusely. They are ecstatic about the addition.

As they should be. They got a phenomenal deal for a great player.

[RichH55]

The Ravens fans I now (and I know a lot of them), have been thanking me profusely. They are ecstatic about the addition.

Hopefully they aren't foolish enough to compare him to Ray Lewis - they should know better!

[artbest01]

Disagree on a few fronts. Roquan wasnt, to my knowledge, ever a first team all pro. He was a very good, not a great player. He seems to play better in a 3/4 with huge interior linemen 2 gapping in front of him, but he’s in his 5th season - he’s not likely to get that much better.

A second and a 5th for an off the ball linebacker who is coming out of contract is about as good a return as you’re going to get.

It's all about attitude DP.

The entire defense was terrible. Looked unmotivated and confused. You pointed out the Quinn trade may have affected Roquan.

I think it affected all of them. That's not the only reason for their play, of course, but it's a big one. Unfortunately, the Roquan trade may well have the same sort of effect, only to a greater degree. We'll find out soon.

My only point of contention here would be the comment that top end players don't have games like he had on Sunday. That is simply untrue. Urlacher had stinkers, Tom Brady has had stinkers, literally every player ever has had bad games in their careers.

In any case, he's gone and I'm happy with the move and the return we got for him considering that he wasn't likely to be retained much longer anyways. I just don't think one bad game played any part in that decision at all, nor do I believe Roquan's heart wasn't in it or anything like that. Our entire D was owned by Dallas, he was one of 11 that was embarrassed out there. There's always these snap judgements made that are overreactions to small sample sized/recent events. Roquan Smith was drafted and then proceeded to make more tackles in the NFL than any other player since that day - that's just a fact and I'm not going to let one bad game that he ended on diminish that accomplishment.

The return was not good. Eighth pick in his draft, stellar career, All-Pro, relatively injury free, with room to grow? A second and a fifth is pretty lame for a player like that.

I said earlier that this was an ego move by Poles, and I stand by that...but that's not the whole picture. Roquan is far more valuable to a 3-4 team as an ILB than a 4-3 team as a WLB. I wish that Flus would have made Roquan our ILB...but that's a whole other conversation, so I'll leave it at that. The Ravens will figure out a way to pay him, Poles didn't want to, because of the structure of the defense. He wants to pay other players at other more valuable positions, instead.

The problem with that thinking? Not many of those guys are on the team right now. And you can really do wonders if you juggle the cap.

Oh well, Roquan is gone. Will probably win Super Bowls with the Ravens, go to the Hall of Fame, and years from now people will be like, "Oh yeah, he was a Bear at first, wasn't he?"

But at least we got a second and a fifth and Klein for him...

[HisRoyalSweetness]

An article on the players' reaction to trading Smith and how Poles and Eberflus dealt with it.

Crisis counselors: Ryan Poles, Matt Eberflus steady Bears’ ship after Roquan Smith trade

A week after linebacker Roquan Smith was overcome with emotion after the Bears traded Robert Quinn, the heartfelt feeling of loss was just as heavy after Smith was traded to the Ravens.

“I couldn’t believe it,” safety Eddie Jackson said after practice Wednesday. “I was in disbelief. I was in shock. To everybody, it was a shock that we got rid of Rob. So when you get rid of Ro, the thoughts go through your head like, ‘What are we playing for? Is their vision still the same as the players’?’ We’re trying to make it to a Super Bowl, get to the playoffs, things like that.

“I mean, I’m a player. I really don’t involve myself with what goes on upstairs. I get it. My sixth year in the league. I understand it. It was a good move as a GM to try to get something [for Smith]. But it just hits different. The upstairs people aren’t down here with us. This has become a brotherly bond that becomes deeper than football. So it kind of hurts. It was definitely an emotional day.”

Cornerback Jaylon Johnson felt a sense of loss that another team captain and emotional and vocal leader was no longer on the team.

“It was a lot,” Johnson said. “I had just left the building. It was one of those things where you come back in the building, and you see everybody kind of moving different. You don’t hear him in the locker room. You don’t hear him out at walkthroughs. You just kind of get that feeling that . . . I don’t want to say he’s gone, but he’s moved on to a different team.”

In Baltimore, Smith was dealing with the same kind of shock. But, like his former teammates, he was ready to get through the emotion, deal with the reality and move on.

“I didn’t plan to [get traded], but life happens at times, and I got traded,’’ he told reporters in Baltimore. ‘‘So, initially, I was shocked. But I’m excited to be here. Good group of guys that’s contending for a title, and that’s what I’m in the game to play for — playing for a title.”

Losing Quinn was a tough hit, but at least easy to understand — the 33-year-old veteran was an odd fit on a rebuilding team. But Smith is 25, in the prime of his career and considered the biggest foundation piece of the rebuild. His departure — because of a contract impasse — left general manager Ryan Poles and coach Matt Eberflus with some explaining to do. That’s why both of them met with the team’s 13-player leadership council to quell any discord.

“Roquan, more than anybody, [was] kind of the lifeblood of the locker room,” tight end Cole Kmet said. “So it’s tough when you lose a guy like that. You don’t know what kind of message it sends. That’s why it was great [to hear] from Coach and Ryan in terms of them walking us through and understanding some things.”

Jackson, a six-year veteran and the longest-tenured defensive starter, echoed that sentiment. The last thing this 3-5 team coming off a 49-29 loss needs is even a hint of dissension.

“It helps a lot; I told Ryan that,” Jackson said. “I appreciated him giving us a call and telling us what’s going on. You kind of need that. There are a lot of things that start floating around, especially in the locker room, like, ‘They don’t care about their guys.’ That was pretty cool for them to talk to us as men. We get the business part of this. We respect that. But we like to be respected as men and football players, as well.”

https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2022 ... mith-trade

Smith saying he didn't plan to get traded and was shocked when it happened is rather ironic given he demanded exactly that before the season.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

For those saying that Smith's modest turnover record wasn't a factor in the Bears' contract offer and subsequent decision to trade him:

Lack of ‘ball production’ doomed Roquan Smith

Roquan Smith wanted to be paid like Colts linebacker Shaquille Leonard, who blossomed into a star in Matt Eberflus’ defense in Indianapolis and signed a five-year, $98.5 million contract in 2021.

But while Smith was a two-time All-Pro, he didn’t have Leonard’s knack for game-changing plays. Leonard had 30 takeaways in his first four seasons to only six for Smith.

That’s why Eberflus backed the signing of Leonard but couldn’t endorse a similar deal for Smith, who was traded to the Ravens on Monday for second- and fifth-round picks in 2023 and veteran linebacker A.J. Klein.

“We always base things on numbers and production, and we covet ball production in that position,” Eberflus said. “So that right there is a very important thing that the [weak-side] linebacker needs to do. We loved Roquan. We made him an offer, and they couldn’t find common ground.”

https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2022 ... quan-smith

[Xee]

I'm having a hard time believing Roquan was "shocked" that he was traded, as he stated, given that he literally asked for a trade in August. How did he not see that as a possibility?

Whatever, I hope he finds the contract he's looking for in Baltimore. Given that Chubb just signed a 5-year, $119 million contract though, I don't know if that will happen considering he will probably ask for more than that.

[Moriarty]

I'm having a hard time believing Roquan was "shocked" that he was traded, as he stated, given that he literally asked for a trade in August. How did he not see that as a possibility?

It's head-shaking, but I wouldn't say hard to believe.

He's shown a lot of lack of awareness in the few years he was here.

[Arkansasbear]

The Ravens fans I now (and I know a lot of them), have been thanking me profusely. They are ecstatic about the addition.

They should be. They got him for a price that's good for them. I simply don't think Poles was going to be able to work out a deal and he took a little less than "book value" to make the trade happen.

In a vacuum it's slightly better for the Raven but at least "good" for the Bears. Without that trade, I don't know if they pull the trade for Claypool. I'm of the opinion that both guys have the potential to be a the top of their position in the NFL. Assuming they both do what they could do (granted Roquan has been playing there and Claypool hasn't on a consistent basis), would you rather have a top WR or top LB? I say WR. Now if Claypool doesn't come close to that and Roquan goes into the Hall of Fame, this will really sting down the road, but that's why Poles is paid the big buck.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Alex Brown with a succinct summary of the situation:

“When you look at Roquan, coming in as a rookie, he held out. This year, held out. If you don’t think you're close on a contract, you franchise him, you can bet your butt that he’s going to hold out and not come play until he absolutely has to. Do you want to go through that, or is it better for the team to get a second- and a fifth and move on from that big contract?”

Full article: https://chicago.suntimes.com/2022/11/3/ ... vid-kaplan

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

Alex Brown with a succinct summary of the situation:

“When you look at Roquan, coming in as a rookie, he held out. This year, held out. If you don’t think you're close on a contract, you franchise him, you can bet your butt that he’s going to hold out and not come play until he absolutely has to. Do you want to go through that, or is it better for the team to get a second- and a fifth and move on from that big contract?”

Full article: https://chicago.suntimes.com/2022/11/3/ ... vid-kaplan

Yup. Well put by Alex. Flus is looking for a distraction free locker room, and Roquan was not going to provide that.

[Heinz D.]

A second and a 5th for an off the ball linebacker who is coming out of contract is about as good a return as you’re going to get.

The contract was an enormous part of it...there's no denying that. And, maybe you're right about the return. Because, maybe the Ravens were really the only team willing to pay him?

What an unfortunate situation. We can argue all we want about whether Roquan was "very good" or "great"...but the fact of the matter is, if you're building a team with the hopes of reaching the Super Bowl, you don't trade away young, quality players.

[dplank]

Alex Brown with a succinct summary of the situation:

Yup. Well put by Alex. Flus is looking for a distraction free locker room, and Roquan was not going to provide that.

Yea makes sense. Get what you can if you aren't gonna lock him up long term.

[wab]

A second and a 5th for an off the ball linebacker who is coming out of contract is about as good a return as you’re going to get.

The contract was an enormous part of it...there's no denying that. And, maybe you're right about the return. Because, maybe the Ravens were really the only team willing to pay him?

What an unfortunate situation. We can argue all we want about whether Roquan was "very good" or "great"...but the fact of the matter is, if you're building a team with the hopes of reaching the Super Bowl, you don't trade away young, quality players.

You do if you have no intention of meeting his contract demands.

[Xee]

The contract was an enormous part of it...there's no denying that. And, maybe you're right about the return. Because, maybe the Ravens were really the only team willing to pay him?

What an unfortunate situation. We can argue all we want about whether Roquan was "very good" or "great"...but the fact of the matter is, if you're building a team with the hopes of reaching the Super Bowl, you don't trade away young, quality players.

You do if you have no intention of meeting his contract demands.

I think a big part of this is we don't know what the numbers are. We don't know what the Bears offered or what Roquan asked for. Who know if the Bears were being cheap or if Roquan was asking for something obscene. Either way, I agree, part of this decision had to be Poles not wanting the headache of having to find the middle ground, especially when all efforts had failed so far.

[Hema2.0]

Who is this Roquan you guys keep mentioning? Is she one of those rap guys girlfriends?

[The Marshall Plan]

Alex Brown with a succinct summary of the situation:

Yup. Well put by Alex. Flus is looking for a distraction free locker room, and Roquan was not going to provide that.

Star players are finnicky like that. That's been true in sports for eternity.

If we want to have an elite team and win a Super Bowl we need to have stars on the team.

Star players have sex with porn stars, ride on yachts, wear fur coats, big jewelry, hang out with rappers, maybe even have a side gig with a fashion line, do TV commercials, say the "F" word, buy a Lambo and then drive it into a telephone pole, and a ton of other shit.

If Flus wants to run a church camp, then he can pretty much expect to go 3-14 every year and get fired after two seasons.

[G08]

[dplank]

Did you post the same thing twice in two different threads?

[thunderspirit]

Players get away with that shit when they produce like stars.

Ro didn't produce like that for the Bears this season. That's pretty much the story at this point.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

I think that's what's been said ad nauseum on this forum. Roquan is good. He makes tackles. But rarely does he impact the direction or the outcome of the game.

[The Marshall Plan]

Players get away with that shit when they produce like stars.

Ro didn't produce like that for the Bears this season. That's pretty much the story at this point.

He was leading the league in tackles this season.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

Players get away with that shit when they produce like stars.

Ro didn't produce like that for the Bears this season. That's pretty much the story at this point.

He was leading the league in tackles this season.

I get it. You've brought that one statistic up over and over and over. It's a good metric. I think it's great that he was. But, how many were for a loss? How many prevented a 3nd down conversion? How many caused a fumble? How many QB pressures, sacks? This was Cosell's point. You can rack up the most tackles in the league, but if they are all 5-7 yards down the field, total tackles is kind of irrelevant. You do understand that, right? Why would you pay a LB $20M a year if all he can do is stop a RB from gaining 7 yards by holding him to 5?

[dplank]

That’s a major over statement whiskey, there’s no need to disparage him. His TFL is good and he’s a good/instinctive pass rusher and very good in coverage. He’s a really good player, top 5 at his position according to league GMs. He was just insisting on being paid like the best instead of “one of the best”. So fine, we moved him and I’m ok with it. But why the need to act like he wasn’t any good at all and just making stuff up like this?

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

That’s a major over statement whiskey, there’s no need to disparage him. His TFL is good and he’s a good/instinctive pass rusher and very good in coverage. He’s a really good player, top 5 at his position according to league GMs. He was just insisting on being paid like the best instead of “one of the best”. So fine, we moved him and I’m ok with it. But why the need to act like he wasn’t any good at all and just making stuff up like this?

OK. Fine. It was an over exaggeration. But as much as I liked Roquan last year. His whole hold out and insulting the offer that the Bears gave him, really pissed me off. Yes. He's an exceptional LB. Yes he has an impact on every game he plays in. Is he the best LB in the league? No. That we can agree on. I'm just such a big fan of what Poles did by getting a 2nd, and then essentially flipping it for an X receiver. I thought it was brilliant, and I've cut the cord on Roquan.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Bears defense still hopes to grow without Ro

Bears defensive coordinator Alan Williams disputed the notion that an emotional letdown after the trade of defensive end Robert Quinn was the root of the collapse in last week’s 49-29 loss to the Cowboys. The Bears’ defense allowed 42 of those points.
...

It’s probably not a coincidence that the player most affected by Quinn’s departure also had the biggest drop in performance. Linebacker Roquan Smith, who was so overcome with emotion when asked about Quinn being traded that he cut short a news conference last week, had his worst game of the season: five tackles and some uncharacteristic errors that led to big plays.
...

The defense has an even bigger challenge Sunday against the Dolphins: rebounding from the Cowboys debacle five days after taking an even bigger hit when Smith was traded to the Ravens.

Quinn was a respected leader, but Smith was a vocal leader who elicited emotion with emotion.

“Kind of the lifeblood of the locker room,” tight end Cole Kmet said.

Said Morrow: “He’s one of those guys that’s hard to replace beads of the energy he brings, not only on the field but in the facility. He made a point to get to know everybody in the building. You definitely feel his absence.”

So, now what? Even if the Bears can weather the emotional fallout of Smith’s departure, the defense still has a huge hole to fill.

“I looked at Roquan’s stats, and I was like, ‘Oh, my goodness,’ ” Morrow said. “It’s hard to replace that production he had for 4½ years and what he did in eight games this year. And I won’t sit here and say that it is. But at the same time, it’s a team game, so other guys have to step up and make plays. You have to find a way to play together.”

Therein lies the real hope — that the Bears’ defense can grow without its best player. When coach Matt Eberflus installed this defense with the Colts in 2018, it noticeably improved in the second half of the season, from 18th in points allowed (23.8 per game) to second (15.5), and from 21st in yards allowed (371.4) to seventh (308.0).

“The focus is execution — be where you’re supposed to be,” Williams said. “Alignment, assignment, key and technique. There are several big plays we’ve made where guys were just where they were supposed to be and . . . in the spot to make the play. If we do that at a high rate, we’ll be just fine.”
...

Full article: https://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/202 ... without-ro

[dplank]

That’s a major over statement whiskey, there’s no need to disparage him. His TFL is good and he’s a good/instinctive pass rusher and very good in coverage. He’s a really good player, top 5 at his position according to league GMs. He was just insisting on being paid like the best instead of “one of the best”. So fine, we moved him and I’m ok with it. But why the need to act like he wasn’t any good at all and just making stuff up like this?

OK. Fine. It was an over exaggeration. But as much as I liked Roquan last year. His whole hold out and insulting the offer that the Bears gave him, really pissed me off. Yes. He's an exceptional LB. Yes he has an impact on every game he plays in. Is he the best LB in the league? No. That we can agree on. I'm just such a big fan of what Poles did by getting a 2nd, and then essentially flipping it for an X receiver. I thought it was brilliant, and I've cut the cord on Roquan.

Fair enough, and I’m kind of intrigued to see what Sanborn does with his opportunity. Fins are my AFC / home team so I’m excited for the game tomorrow!

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

As I said in another thread. Here are your staring backers;

SAM - Sanborn
Mike - Morrow
Will - Weatherford

I want to see that.