More Tevin Jenkins drama

[Mikefive]

Against the Texans, Jenkins was demoted from starting in favor of Lucas Patrick, who did practice snapping this week. Jenkins was rotated in and played significantly.

When asked about this, Eberflus said it was because Jenkins "had a poor practice" last Wednesday, refusing to say more.

Media speculation is that this is a resurrection of the "attitude" issues Jenkins was reported to have early on that resulted in trade talk rumors.

WTH???

[The Cooler King]

If his attitude was that much of a problem he wouldn't be playing at all.

It really doesn't make sense what they're doing with him.

[thunderspirit]

One of the critiques of Jenkins coming out in 2021 was about his football character. The perception from some scouts was that he needed a kick in the seat to make him work hard. That depiction would track with what we're seeing from Eberflus' staff.

I don't claim to know more than anyone else here, mind you. It's speculation and conjecture, trying to connect dots.

[Grizzled]

Enough already. Start him, put him on the bench in case of injury, or trade him. From what I've seen, he's been much better in games than Patrick, who consistenly seems to get swatted aside. But I don't see practices.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

I think that Jenkins is still holding on to this idea that he is a T not a G. That he's whining or complaining about where he's playing and/or is not putting the time in the film room that other guards are. It's a maturity issue. That's complete speculation, but it certainly has nothing to do with talent. I see Flus as a guy that expects players to give maximum effort no matter where the staff chooses to play them, and he's not seeing that from Jenkins right now. That's my guess anyway.

[wab]

FWIW - and I don't have the source to back this stat up (I assume PFF), but...

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

FWIW - and I don't have the source to back this stat up (I assume PFF), but...

This is a GOOD OL. Borom repeatedly shows his athleticism and intelligence within the zone scheme. For a rookie, Jones is an absolute steal, and becoming a real talent. If the Bears can just get Jenkins to stick at LG, and move Patrick to his natural position at C. This could be a Top 10 OL in the league. Silencing all of the critics in the league who claimed that they were going to be one of the worst.

[IE]

Flus directly talks about what he's doing with players, and it extends beyond just being an effective player. He's "growing the man" so to speak, and holding guys accountable at all times for being a constructive part of what he's building. It is conceivable that Jenk is just lights out on the field but Flus demands that he be consistent and professional - and until he does he doesn't get the full glory of being the starter. It will be good for Jenk in the long run. If he doesn't buy in, I know they firmly believe they can grow another man (e.g. Carter) instead.

[Mikefive]

If his attitude was that much of a problem he wouldn't be playing at all.

It really doesn't make sense what they're doing with him.

If you're Flus, you WANT Jenkins to be a fixture at RG and he's been playing quite well. The only incentive to punish him is if he is breaking team rules, loafing or being otherwise disrespectful.

It only doesn't make sense because we don't know any details about what went on. But there's something going on here. We just have no idea what it is. I wonder if he was 20 minutes late for practice or something like that.

[IE]

If his attitude was that much of a problem he wouldn't be playing at all.

It really doesn't make sense what they're doing with him.

If you're Flus, you WANT Jenkins to be a fixture at RG and he's been playing quite well. The only incentive to punish him is if he is breaking team rules, loafing or being otherwise disrespectful.

It only doesn't make sense because we don't know any details about what went on. But there's something going on here. We just have no idea what it is. I wonder if he was 20 minutes late for practice or something like that.

I has to be something Flus finds meaningful - it must rise to the point where he has concerns about something Jenk is doing or not doing.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

I wonder if he was 20 minutes late for practice or something like that.

It's very possible it was something like this. It would make the most sense.

[o-pus #40 in B major]

Maybe his back was sore.

[wab]

I think Jenkins just isn’t a consistent practice player. He cranks it up on game day, but I don’t think he gives that same effort at practice or in the meeting rooms.

Flus is always going to have a problem with that.

It’s a thin line when you have the kind of coach Flus is. He preaches hard work and accountability, and he holds players to a consistently high standard. If he lets Jenkins skirt by during the week, even if he’s playing at a near pro bowl level on Sunday, other players that are trying to meet the higher standards will start to notice.

[IE]

I think Jenkins just isn’t a consistent practice player. He cranks it up on game day, but I don’t think he gives that same effort at practice or in the meeting rooms.

Flus is always going to have a problem with that.

It’s a thin line when you have the kind of coach Flus is. He preaches hard work and accountability, and he holds players to a consistently high standard. If he lets Jenkins skirt by during the week, even if he’s playing at a near pro bowl level on Sunday, other players that are trying to meet the higher standards will start to notice.

For sure. And my money is on Flus' system winning. Because it is almost certainly easier to find a high-performing RG than it is to raise the competence of an entire team by setting standards and everyone being on the same page.

Edit: I mean, Flus is literally showing Jenk that a nobody like Patrick can do his job. Jenk is responding by being tough out there but Flus may strongly believe (and it would make sense) if he wasn't being threatened, he'd relax. So nope.

[karhu]

Didn't Jenkins have that same rep at OSU?

If this is Eberflus's third year and Jenkins's second, I imagine that things settle down a lot more quickly one way or the other. I'm sure he didn't mean to, but if Jenkins was a bit slow to embrace the program, he threatened what Eberflus was trying to instill in the team. Nobody knows but the guys on the team, but I can easily imagine a scenario where Jenkins drags his feet or otherwise fails to give Eberflus what he's looking for until the end of preseason, and Eberflus continuing to hammer him a few weeks into the regular season. "Think this is a joke? You don't have to listen like the rest of the team listens? You're not starting until you give me 125% of what I expect from you." If Eberflus has his head screwed on straight, that's first-year-coach stuff that'll ease up a bit once the team makes a habit of doing things his way.

[malk]

I think Jenkins just isn’t a consistent practice player. He cranks it up on game day, but I don’t think he gives that same effort at practice or in the meeting rooms.

Flus is always going to have a problem with that.

It’s a thin line when you have the kind of coach Flus is. He preaches hard work and accountability, and he holds players to a consistently high standard. If he lets Jenkins skirt by during the week, even if he’s playing at a near pro bowl level on Sunday, other players that are trying to meet the higher standards will start to notice.

Difficult with things like this to determine how much is bad attitude or poor effort and how much is just not being a good practice player. You hear of the opposite as well where guys are lights out in practice but they can't translate it onto the field. I know what it is like personally (obviously at an amateur level, and not even particularly good amateur lol) in rugby. I just don't have the mentality to smash my teammates in tackles and there are certain drills where the defence knows what you're doing in attack and it means the bigger guys can cheat up in a way that doesn't translate in games. The latter is particularly infuriating when I've coached as the drill isn't about some big lump showing off, the defenders are making up the numbers whilst the attack gets reps, but I digress.

Anyway, I've had new teammates who commented after playing a live match with me that they weren't expecting me to put in big hits, or be an utter bastard on the pitch because I'm not like that in training. You get players like that in the pros as well.

Now it's worth mentioning that I always flogged my guts out in fitness and everything else (less so now I'm old and have kids!), it'd be more of an issue if someone wasn't bringing intensity and also half arseing strength and fitness.

[Shadow]

Didn't Jenkins have that same rep at OSU?

If this is Eberflus's third year and Jenkins's second, I imagine that things settle down a lot more quickly one way or the other. I'm sure he didn't mean to, but if Jenkins was a bit slow to embrace the program, he threatened what Eberflus was trying to instill in the team. Nobody knows but the guys on the team, but I can easily imagine a scenario where Jenkins drags his feet or otherwise fails to give Eberflus what he's looking for until the end of preseason, and Eberflus continuing to hammer him a few weeks into the regular season. "Think this is a joke? You don't have to listen like the rest of the team listens? You're not starting until you give me 125% of what I expect from you." If Eberflus has his head screwed on straight, that's first-year-coach stuff that'll ease up a bit once the team makes a habit of doing things his way.

I have gone back 4-5 times and watched the interview with his college coach, were he talked all about Tevin. At first viewing it sounds like he is hyping his player post draft. But with a view of recent events, it has an all new take. He definitely had an issue in college with not being all in and motivated.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

Didn't Jenkins have that same rep at OSU?

If this is Eberflus's third year and Jenkins's second, I imagine that things settle down a lot more quickly one way or the other. I'm sure he didn't mean to, but if Jenkins was a bit slow to embrace the program, he threatened what Eberflus was trying to instill in the team. Nobody knows but the guys on the team, but I can easily imagine a scenario where Jenkins drags his feet or otherwise fails to give Eberflus what he's looking for until the end of preseason, and Eberflus continuing to hammer him a few weeks into the regular season. "Think this is a joke? You don't have to listen like the rest of the team listens? You're not starting until you give me 125% of what I expect from you." If Eberflus has his head screwed on straight, that's first-year-coach stuff that'll ease up a bit once the team makes a habit of doing things his way.

I have gone back 4-5 times and watched the interview with his college coach, were he talked all about Tevin. At first viewing it sounds like he is hyping his player post draft. But with a view of recent events, it has an all new take. He definitely had an issue in college with not being all in and motivated.

The phrase that kept coming up was "any time he wanted to." I think there is a struggle for the heart and mind of Teven Jenkins right now. The question is going to be whether or not he wants to do what it takes to stay in the NFL. Not from a talent perspective, but from a this is the effort that is expected from a professional football player."

[dplank]

I go back and forth on this, but I end up siding with Flus ultimately. That said, what matters ultimately is on field performance. Coaches coach, and motivate, to bring out the best in a player on gameday. That's what they practice for. And Teven pops on gameday, clear as day when you see him just maul people into a different zip code.

So while again I ultimately side with Flus and the need to uphold players to standards and work ethic, I don't want to overlook the fact that the results that we are looking to achieve from that standard appear to already be there. No human just moves professional football players around like Teven does without putting a WHOLE lot of work in, so I wonder where the line is with Flus and how much is making a point vs how much is going too far making said point.

Before responding, imagine me posting a dozen times in a row that I ultimately side with Flus on this issue - merely pointing out one additional element that should be considered as well.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

He just needs time. Different players mature at different rates.
Jenkins has the talent, he just needs to get his mind switched on.

It’ll come for him and then he’ll be all pro.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

He just needs time. Different players mature at different rates.
Jenkins has the talent, he just needs to get his mind switched on.

It’ll come for him and then he’ll be all pro.

This is my take too.

[dave99]

So he can deliver hits but doesn’t get HITS?
Quite a conundrum

[RichH55]

I’m reminded of the old Ray Lewis quote (not the he was dead when I got here one)

You pay me for Monday-Saturday. Sundays you get for free

[spudbear]

I go back and forth on this, but I end up siding with Flus ultimately. That said, what matters ultimately is on field performance. Coaches coach, and motivate, to bring out the best in a player on gameday. That's what they practice for. And Teven pops on gameday, clear as day when you see him just maul people into a different zip code.

So while again I ultimately side with Flus and the need to uphold players to standards and work ethic, I don't want to overlook the fact that the results that we are looking to achieve from that standard appear to already be there. No human just moves professional football players around like Teven does without putting a WHOLE lot of work in, so I wonder where the line is with Flus and how much is making a point vs how much is going too far making said point.

Before responding, imagine me posting a dozen times in a row that I ultimately side with Flus on this issue - merely pointing out one additional element that should be considered as well.

I think back to Big Cat Williams and his last few seasons. His knees were in such bad shape that he could not practice during the week but he'd strap it on each Sunday for gameday. Hopefully he lost a lot of weight after he retired and reduced the stress. He probably needs assistance now walking for all I know.

[bearsoldier]

Not many over achievers much better than Big Cat. Love the guy. He a was a great Bear... Check the links... Glad to know he appears to be doing well and still out there doing good things.


https://news.wttw.com/2022/09/08/james- ... ars-season

https://www.facebook.com/ChicagoBears/v ... 640742453/

[Shadow]

I go back and forth on this, but I end up siding with Flus ultimately. That said, what matters ultimately is on field performance. Coaches coach, and motivate, to bring out the best in a player on gameday. That's what they practice for. And Teven pops on gameday, clear as day when you see him just maul people into a different zip code.

So while again I ultimately side with Flus and the need to uphold players to standards and work ethic, I don't want to overlook the fact that the results that we are looking to achieve from that standard appear to already be there. No human just moves professional football players around like Teven does without putting a WHOLE lot of work in, so I wonder where the line is with Flus and how much is making a point vs how much is going too far making said point.

Before responding, imagine me posting a dozen times in a row that I ultimately side with Flus on this issue - merely pointing out one additional element that should be considered as well.

Flus has to do this. If he lets Tevin give short shrift to weekly practices (mind you, a 2nd year player learning a new position that was rumored to being shopped in TC) what does that say to the older vets? Guy like Reiff, who ended up being a backup? Lucas Patrick, a veteran FA who was to be a starter from day one, but got hurt? Does this mean Quinn and Smith can not give full effort on Wednesdays too? What about Mooney, maybe on Wednesdays he will only start jogging through his routes?

I think Eberflus will lose the locker room if he lets Tevin act like a little baby. Time to grow up Tevin or find a new career path! :-

So in the meantime if he needs time too mature, sit him down. Some time on the bench will make him grow up fast. He has always been the guy where ever he was. If he sees he is not necessarily the guy in Chicago, it may well motivate him to do some soul searching.

The problem is, everyone here is a Bears Fan. (Well I think at least 90% are, not sure about the other 10% ) Fans want the best performance on game day, regardless of the process of the previous week. This is how some players get away with loafing or goofing around in practice or even getting dubious behavior/criminal activities over looked, so long as they play great on Sunday. I am in no way implying Tevin is a bad guy, but one bad apple can spoil the whole batch. I think everyone wants Tevin to become the next great RG for the Bears, or LG, or RT or LT. I think he can be whatever he sets his heart too. I know I do, I was so stoked when the Bears drafted him. But since then, I have been disappointed in him. It is like his former coach said, Tevin has to decide to be that Player.

[dplank]

I’m saying something just a tad different, it’s nuanced so bear with me. I bristle at the phrasing “Teven has to decide if he’s going to be a pro”, or some variation of that sentiment - that language doesn’t work for me.

Because he’s already that guy on Sundays. He’s already better than Mustipher and Patrick. He’s not Hercules, he can’t just eat Frosted Flakes all day, roll out of bed at noon, throw a helmet on and manhandle NFL DL the way he does. That requires work, lots of it. And his actual performance shows he’s put a lot of work in, enough to beat NFL DL fairly consistently and often dramatically.

Then you have a coach like Flus, trying to instill a particular mantra to his team and demanding guys do shit like sprint between drills, sprint downfield when plays are clearly out of your sphere of influence, etc. there’s a fakeness to that, I played for a coach like that and it was almost like playing make believe sometimes? I’m probably not explaining that well. You were trying to please coach more than anything else, which can be counter productive.

I don’t see a villain here. I don’t blame Flus for enforcing his style, he’s coach and has that right. But I’m not nearly as quick to say Teven is lazy or immature either. A lot of guys just aren’t wired that way.

Last weird way to try and explain my thinking. I basically do sales for a living, been doing it a long time and I’m good at it. I have my style, which is genuine and not pushy and matches my personality. It’s not forced, boiler room, high pressure stuff. I interviewed for a job once where the asked me to sell them a pencil, I refused. It’s gimmicky and fake and stupid. They have every right to ask but it wasn’t for me. I cant even do mock presentations, I just can’t to pretend/make believe stuff. I break character immediately because it feels stupid. Put me in front of a customer and I’m fine. That didn’t happen overnight or without a lot of work, but I couldn’t do the defined path that management wanted to get there. Ultimately I led the sales team and took over as the business unit leader, despite almost losing the job early on because I couldn’t play make believe.

I see Teven as a real, maybe a bit immature, very smart guy. And I think he struggles with the fake part of what Flus (most coaches have this, Grundy included I’m sure) wants to see in practice. I don’t want to lose a guy with All Pro potential because he struggles to play make believe, and I’m already tired of watching Mustipher get blown up at the point while Teven has rotated out. Play the best 5.

[Grizzled]

You have a highly rated OL prospect dropping to the 2nd round. Then his back gets injured and he's sidelined for a large part of the season. Then he gets put at a position he's not as familiar with as the one he played in college. The Bears and their offensive philosophy get turned topsy turvy in the offseason and then the new regime doesn't wholeheartedly endorse Jenkins being a started at tackle. He has the undisclosed injury holding him at during training camp. Upon his return, he's lost the battle at both tackle spots and is put at RG.And then, in perhaps the final indignity (to his thinking), he's platooned with Patrick despite playing better than him and doesn't even get the majority of the snaps during games. He may not be practcing as hard as Flus wants and that's on Jenkins, I'm sure the coach's expectations were spelled out to guys if they want to play. But the Bears need to decide if he's their RG going forward, tell him, and run him accordingly during practices.

[EricTighe]

It could be a real simple answer to why Patrick is starting over Jenkins.

Patrick knows the offense we are running like the back of his hand. Other than Cody we have no real experience, Patrick could be calling the offensive line assignments from the guard position. Once Patrick is healthy enough to start at center we will know for sure if there is an issue with Jenkins.

When Patrick gets healthy I can see Mustipher going to back up. Jenkins starting from here on out.

[Rusty Trombagent]

Then you have a coach like Flus, trying to instill a particular mantra to his team and demanding guys do shit like sprint between drills, sprint downfield when plays are clearly out of your sphere of influence, etc. there’s a fakeness to that, I played for a coach like that and it was almost like playing make believe sometimes? I’m probably not explaining that well. You were trying to please coach more than anything else, which can be counter productive.

I don’t see a villain here. I don’t blame Flus for enforcing his style, he’s coach and has that right. But I’m not nearly as quick to say Teven is lazy or immature either. A lot of guys just aren’t wired that way.

While I dont 100% agree with your read of Flus' coaching style, it is very much a double edged sword. Flus' system gets the most out of lesser players, and already pays dividends, and it does break down to an extent if good players arent held to the same standards... but if Jenkins doesnt cut it here, I've seen enough to believe he's going to be a real good player for his next team. Still though, everyone gives 100% until they hear the whistle isnt such a bad foundation to build upon...



Frustrating!