Sanborn to get more reps

[Arkansasbear]

I know that's something a lot of folks here have been wanting to see. Now Williams has come out and said that will be the case.

https://bearswire.usatoday.com/2022/11/ ... ith-trade/

There is a video of Williams' presser where he says they are playing with Morrow moving to Roquan's spot and Sanborn in the middle as well as keeping Morrow in the middle. Working out who will be calling the plays on defense as well. Let's see what the young guys can do.

[Grizzled]

7 tackles yesterday including one where he ran down the receiver from behind. Non-stop motor. I don't put any of the defensive lapses yesterday on him.

[wab]

7 tackles yesterday including one where he ran down the receiver from behind. Non-stop motor. I don't put any of the defensive lapses yesterday on him.

He was out of position a few times. I was impressed at his recovery speed though, since he's not exactly known as a fast guy.

[Otis Day]

He needs more time in practice with the "1s". I believe he will improve over time. Didn't expect much out of him yesterday, at least not more than he showed. He needs game time as well. He needs to get used to the speed of the game as compared to practice. He has a half year to get acclimated now.

[karhu]

7 tackles yesterday including one where he ran down the receiver from behind. Non-stop motor. I don't put any of the defensive lapses yesterday on him.

And that receiver was Hill. Gave him a nice little pat on the helmet after the play.

[RichH55]

7 tackles yesterday including one where he ran down the receiver from behind. Non-stop motor. I don't put any of the defensive lapses yesterday on him.

He was out of position a few times. I was impressed at his recovery speed though, since he's not exactly known as a fast guy.

Me as well - though the top end speed is always gonna be an issue

[spudbear]

Sanborn won't cover as well as Roquan, and he can get washed out of plays when an OL is able to square him up. He seems to have good instincts through there were a few times where he overplayed and left his area open. I think that will improve with more game time and studying his film.

[RichH55]

Sanborn won't cover as well as Roquan, and he can get washed out of plays when an OL is able to square him up. He seems to have good instincts through there were a few times where he overplayed and left his area open. I think that will improve with more game time and studying his film.

I'm always curious on this when people say about - any LB - "and he can get washed out of plays when an OL is able to square him up."

I feel like this is true about just about any LB in the league. Getting the OL to the second level to square up with the LB seems to be the primary goal of certain Run Blocking schemes

You might be able to skirt/evade the block, or when blocked at least make sure the OL can't get someone else too - But I think- even looking back on Briggs, or Urlacher, or even Ray Lewis - If the OL can square up the LB - that should be an OL win the vast majority of the time

[southdakbearfan]

Sanborn won't cover as well as Roquan, and he can get washed out of plays when an OL is able to square him up. He seems to have good instincts through there were a few times where he overplayed and left his area open. I think that will improve with more game time and studying his film.

I'm always curious on this when people say about - any LB - "and he can get washed out of plays when an OL is able to square him up."

I feel like this is true about just about any LB in the league. Getting the OL to the second level to square up with the LB seems to be the primary goal of certain Run Blocking schemes

You might be able to skirt/evade the block, or when blocked at least make sure the OL can't get someone else too - But I think- even looking back on Briggs, or Urlacher, or even Ray Lewis - If the OL can square up the LB - that should be an OL win the vast majority of the time

I think it's more about diagnosing the play quickly and having the speed to not get squared up on, on most plays.

[RichH55]

I'm always curious on this when people say about - any LB - "and he can get washed out of plays when an OL is able to square him up."

I feel like this is true about just about any LB in the league. Getting the OL to the second level to square up with the LB seems to be the primary goal of certain Run Blocking schemes

You might be able to skirt/evade the block, or when blocked at least make sure the OL can't get someone else too - But I think- even looking back on Briggs, or Urlacher, or even Ray Lewis - If the OL can square up the LB - that should be an OL win the vast majority of the time

I think it's more about diagnosing the play quickly and having the speed to not get squared up on, on most plays.

Me too

Though also about knowing when you are the Pawn in the play and have to be sacrificed. Can't try and slip every block

[mmmc_35]

Some line backers are great though at getting past that lineman. They may still loose but they can make that play. Some just dont have it. Weather it be foot work, hand work, or just drive.

I watched KC vs Tennessee last week. And David Long does a great job at exactly what you are talking about.

[Yogi da Bear]

7 tackles yesterday including one where he ran down the receiver from behind. Non-stop motor. I don't put any of the defensive lapses yesterday on him.

And that receiver was Hill. Gave him a nice little pat on the helmet after the play.

That play was the epitome of extreme idiocy, and our entire household recognized it as such at the time. On a third a seven from our 31, we assigned our slowest linebacker to cover the fastest receiver in the league. They picked up 18. Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb.

Are we sure that Alan Williams' middle name isn't Larry?

[karhu]

And that receiver was Hill. Gave him a nice little pat on the helmet after the play.

That play was the epitome of extreme idiocy, and our entire household recognized it as such at the time. On a third a seven from our 31, we assigned our slowest linebacker to cover the fastest receiver in the league. They picked up 18. Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb.

Are we sure that Alan Williams' middle name isn't Larry?

We were in cover 2, and they sent five receivers, three of them deep (two of them to clear out space for Hill?)

Jackson was right between the hashes and Brisker was six feet to the weak side, both waaaaay back.

I mean, call it dumb if you want, but it's cover 2. That's what it does: it gives up some plays to prevent big plays. Miami was going for a big play there, and they settled. I'm not a huge fan of the cover 2 as a base defense, but that's literally the coaching staff we just hired. Your spleen is misplaced, I think.

[wab]

And that receiver was Hill. Gave him a nice little pat on the helmet after the play.

That play was the epitome of extreme idiocy, and our entire household recognized it as such at the time. On a third a seven from our 31, we assigned our slowest linebacker to cover the fastest receiver in the league. They picked up 18. Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb.

Are we sure that Alan Williams' middle name isn't Larry?

It’s just how the cover 2 works.

[VA_Mountain_Bear]

Sanborn clearly has a lot to learn and grow from, but I think he had a nice debut. He has good instincts, and seems to mentally process the game quickly, which may often make up for a not being as fast an LB as Roquan. As to the Hill play, I have to agree with the previous posters saying that is just how the scheme works, and a player like Hill is going to beat coverage sometimes.

[RichH55]

Sanborn clearly has a lot to learn and grow from, but I think he had a nice debut. He has good instincts, and seems to mentally process the game quickly, which may often make up for a not being as fast an LB as Roquan. As to the Hill play, I have to agree with the previous posters saying that is just how the scheme works, and a player like Hill is going to beat coverage sometimes.

Concur.

I should also keep reminding myself that Sanborn is a rookie (an undrafted one at that- who also has had to contribute in Special Teams).

There is legit opportunity for growth.

How do people think Morrow looked relative to Roquon ? That is a very interesting subplot (maybe only to me?)

[Yogi da Bear]

That play was the epitome of extreme idiocy, and our entire household recognized it as such at the time. On a third a seven from our 31, we assigned our slowest linebacker to cover the fastest receiver in the league. They picked up 18. Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb.

Are we sure that Alan Williams' middle name isn't Larry?

We were in cover 2, and they sent five receivers, three of them deep (two of them to clear out space for Hill?)

Jackson was right between the hashes and Brisker was six feet to the weak side, both waaaaay back.

I mean, call it dumb if you want, but it's cover 2. That's what it does: it gives up some plays to prevent big plays. Miami was going for a big play there, and they settled. I'm not a huge fan of the cover 2 as a base defense, but that's literally the coaching staff we just hired. Your spleen is misplaced, I think.

18 yards on third and seven from our own 33 isn't a big play?

Cover 2? That's you answer?

My response is that we damn well better figure out a counter. The Dolphins lined up Hill in an H-Back position just outside the right tackle. This effectively isolate him against Sanborn. And it didn't matter if Roquan was in there, the result would have been the same. I don't care what defense you're running; you can't allow the opposing offense's fastest receiver (in this case the league's fastest receiver) to be lined up in isolation against a linebacker (any linebacker) on a third and seven, particularly if it's inside your own 40. You have to have a Plan B response to that. You HAVE to or your defense is going to have a perpetual weak link to it.

What I would do in this case:

The Phins had their TE lined up just outside Hill. I think it was Gesicki, but it's hard to read the number (88 I think but it could be 80). Operating within the Cover 2, Gordon was matched up on the TE, while Sanborn was isolated against Hill. In that circumstance, you have to be willing for Gordon and Sanborn to change roles. It's the only chance you have of success. Either that or you drop the safety down, coming out of the Cover 2 to help double Hill. But if we keep showing this defensive front against that formation, we're going to lose every time, and lose big. Gaining 18 yards is NOT limiting the offense, and we were lucky that they only got 18. It took Sanborn catching Hill from behind to limit it to that.

I don't care what defense you're running. You can NOT let your slow linebacker to be matched up in isolation against the other team's fastest receiver. That's NOT good defense. It's a losing proposition every time.

[wab]

We were in cover 2, and they sent five receivers, three of them deep (two of them to clear out space for Hill?)

Jackson was right between the hashes and Brisker was six feet to the weak side, both waaaaay back.

I mean, call it dumb if you want, but it's cover 2. That's what it does: it gives up some plays to prevent big plays. Miami was going for a big play there, and they settled. I'm not a huge fan of the cover 2 as a base defense, but that's literally the coaching staff we just hired. Your spleen is misplaced, I think.

18 yards on third and seven from our own 33 isn't a big play?

Cover 2? That's you answer?

My response is that we damn well better figure out a counter. The Dolphins lined up Hill in an H-Back position just outside the right tackle. This effectively isolate him against Sanborn. And it didn't matter if Roquan was in there, the result would have been the same. I don't care what defense you're running; you can't allow the opposing offense's fastest receiver (in this case the league's fastest receiver) to be lined up in isolation against a linebacker (any linebacker) on a third and seven, particularly if it's inside your own 40. You have to have a Plan B response to that. You HAVE to or your defense is going to have a perpetual weak link to it.

What I would do in this case:

The Phins had their TE lined up just outside Hill. I think it was Gesicki, but it's hard to read the number (88 I think but it could be 80). Operating within the Cover 2, Gordon was matched up on the TE, while Sanborn was isolated against Hill. In that circumstance, you have to be willing for Gordon and Sanborn to change roles. It's the only chance you have of success. Either that or you drop the safety down, coming out of the Cover 2 to help double Hill. But if we keep showing this defensive front against that formation, we're going to lose every time, and lose big. Gaining 18 yards is NOT limiting the offense, and we were lucky that they only got 18. It took Sanborn catching Hill from behind to limit it to that.

I don't care what defense you're running. You can NOT let your slow linebacker to be matched up in isolation against the other team's fastest receiver. That's NOT good defense. It's a losing proposition every time.

Then you aren’t running the Cover 2. The reason it wasn’t as noticeable the last time the Bears ran Cover 2 is because Urlacher.

You can’t install a defense, give each player a role and responsibility within that defense and then say “ok except when there’s a mismatch”.

Comms are cut off to the helmet by that time, the defense has already been called, and the players don’t know where Hill is going.

The whole point of the defense is giving the offense generally whatever it wants between the 20s.

[Grizzled]

7 tackles yesterday including one where he ran down the receiver from behind. Non-stop motor. I don't put any of the defensive lapses yesterday on him.

He was out of position a few times. I was impressed at his recovery speed though, since he's not exactly known as a fast guy.

He was but he was learning from his mistakes as the game progressed and not biting on plays which pulled him out of position earlier.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Jack Sanborn ‘looked like he belonged’

It looks like Jack Sanborn passed the audition.

The undrafted rookie linebacker from Wisconsin and Lake Zurich had seven tackles in his first NFL start last week against the Dolphins. When defensive coordinator Alan Williams was asked for a bright spot in the 35-32 loss — in which the defense allowed 28 points — he picked Sanborn.

“He looked like he belonged,” Williams said. “Didn’t have errors. Tackled well. Ran around well. You come out of that game going, ‘OK, [that was a] step forward. Now let’s taken more step forward.”

Sanborn showed his instinct for the game and ability to learn.

“There was a bounce-outside run play where Nick [Morrow] filled it and [Sanborn] was over the top and he made a good play just like we designed it,” Williams said. “Those are plays we put in our clinic tape … where you go, ‘Yeah, that’s what we wanted him to do and that’s what he did and that’s what we practiced.’

“Ultimately, you want to see that a guys sees it on tape — this is the play. You do it in practice and the it shows up in the game — there it is. You just want to see that happen on a consistent basis. I think it will.”

That’s Sanborn’s strength. “Football player,” William said. “The No. 1 job of a linebacker is to find the ball, hit the ball. And he did that. That’s a trait he is — fast trigger. He sees it well and goes and gets it.”

Sanborn said he felt “pretty good” about his performance, credited his teammates and coaches and was proud that “the moment was too big.”

https://chicago.suntimes.com/2022/11/10 ... e-belonged

[Yogi da Bear]

18 yards on third and seven from our own 33 isn't a big play?

Cover 2? That's you answer?

My response is that we damn well better figure out a counter. The Dolphins lined up Hill in an H-Back position just outside the right tackle. This effectively isolate him against Sanborn. And it didn't matter if Roquan was in there, the result would have been the same. I don't care what defense you're running; you can't allow the opposing offense's fastest receiver (in this case the league's fastest receiver) to be lined up in isolation against a linebacker (any linebacker) on a third and seven, particularly if it's inside your own 40. You have to have a Plan B response to that. You HAVE to or your defense is going to have a perpetual weak link to it.

What I would do in this case:

The Phins had their TE lined up just outside Hill. I think it was Gesicki, but it's hard to read the number (88 I think but it could be 80). Operating within the Cover 2, Gordon was matched up on the TE, while Sanborn was isolated against Hill. In that circumstance, you have to be willing for Gordon and Sanborn to change roles. It's the only chance you have of success. Either that or you drop the safety down, coming out of the Cover 2 to help double Hill. But if we keep showing this defensive front against that formation, we're going to lose every time, and lose big. Gaining 18 yards is NOT limiting the offense, and we were lucky that they only got 18. It took Sanborn catching Hill from behind to limit it to that.

I don't care what defense you're running. You can NOT let your slow linebacker to be matched up in isolation against the other team's fastest receiver. That's NOT good defense. It's a losing proposition every time.

Then you aren’t running the Cover 2. The reason it wasn’t as noticeable the last time the Bears ran Cover 2 is because Urlacher.

You can’t install a defense, give each player a role and responsibility within that defense and then say “ok except when there’s a mismatch”.

Comms are cut off to the helmet by that time, the defense has already been called, and the players don’t know where Hill is going.

The whole point of the defense is giving the offense generally whatever it wants between the 20s.

On that play, I don't think we were running a Cover 2. We were in a Cover 2 shell, but I didn't see Sanborn drop back into the deep middle like what would happen in a Cover 2. It looked to me like Sanborn was manned up on Hill and Gordon was manned up on the TE. Both of them operating within a Cover 2 shell.

All I know is that if you're in a defense on third and seven and you have your linebacker matched up against the fastest receiver in the league, you better have a response to that. And Urlacher wouldn't have fared any better on that. Matching Sanborn up on a Tyreek Hill is one of the stupidest things you could do.

I'm sure the Bears have some sort of counter to this. They must or they're going to get killed all the time. And coincidentally, I only saw that lineup on that one play. If this is how the Bears handle that situation, you're going to be seeing more and more of it. The Bears better have a counter if Jefferson or Lazard come inside like that or it's going to be a long game.

Again. The easiest way to at least contest this when you're in the nickel is to tell Sanborn to take the TE and Gordon to line up on the receiver. Or you come out of the Cover 2 shell and have the safety drop down to double the receiver. Or you have Gordon come down to cover the short zone outside on the receiver and pass the TE onto the deep safeties. You can't just let a linebacker stay in isolation on a WR like Hill.

[karhu]

18 yards on third and seven from our own 33 isn't a big play?

Not as big as it could have been. I'm just representing my clients here, Mssrs. Noll, Carson, Dungy, Smith, and Eberflus.

Cover 2? That's you answer?

Not just mine.

My response is that we damn well better figure out a counter.

Ooh, ohh--can I change my answer? We shit fuck well better sack the QB on that play. Would that work?

The Dolphins lined up Hill in an H-Back position just outside the right tackle. This effectively isolate him against Sanborn. And it didn't matter if Roquan was in there, the result would have been the same. I don't care what defense you're running; you can't allow the opposing offense's fastest receiver (in this case the league's fastest receiver) to be lined up in isolation against a linebacker (any linebacker) on a third and seven, particularly if it's inside your own 40. You have to have a Plan B response to that. You HAVE to or your defense is going to have a perpetual weak link to it.

Imagine that: an NFL defense with an exploitable weakness. There can't be more than 32 of those on Earth.

I don't care what defense you're running. You can NOT let your slow linebacker to be matched up in isolation against the other team's fastest receiver. That's NOT good defense. It's a losing proposition every time.

Almost makes you wonder why they only ran that play one time.

Or maybe bad matchups sometimes happen, and you either roll with them or call a timeout to regroup.

[karhu]

On that play, I don't think we were running a Cover 2. We were in a Cover 2 shell, but I didn't see Sanborn drop back into the deep middle like what would happen in a Cover 2.

That's Tampa 2. I don't remember us running Tampa 2 at all this year.

As deep as our safeties were playing, our CBs had to run quite a way with their guys regardless of our alignment.

Hill was in the slot, with the TE uncharacteristically a couple of yards away on his outside shoulder. Sanborn set up with inside leverage, just the way a cover 2 LB should in that situation. Both safeties and the CB who had the out-breaking TE were all within a couple of yards of Hill when he was tackled (Gordon looked to be a couple of feet away). All of that says cover 2, too.

They just called a nice, somewhat weird play, and it worked, kinda. We were down three and evidently wanted to prevent a touchdown at all costs. Instead, we gave up a first down. That's football sometimes.

[EricTighe]

8 games to see if anyone can step up and find a diamond in the rough. Our defense is gonna suck.

[Shadow]

18 yards on third and seven from our own 33 isn't a big play?

Cover 2? That's you answer?

My response is that we damn well better figure out a counter. The Dolphins lined up Hill in an H-Back position just outside the right tackle. This effectively isolate him against Sanborn. And it didn't matter if Roquan was in there, the result would have been the same. I don't care what defense you're running; you can't allow the opposing offense's fastest receiver (in this case the league's fastest receiver) to be lined up in isolation against a linebacker (any linebacker) on a third and seven, particularly if it's inside your own 40. You have to have a Plan B response to that. You HAVE to or your defense is going to have a perpetual weak link to it.

What I would do in this case:

The Phins had their TE lined up just outside Hill. I think it was Gesicki, but it's hard to read the number (88 I think but it could be 80). Operating within the Cover 2, Gordon was matched up on the TE, while Sanborn was isolated against Hill. In that circumstance, you have to be willing for Gordon and Sanborn to change roles. It's the only chance you have of success. Either that or you drop the safety down, coming out of the Cover 2 to help double Hill. But if we keep showing this defensive front against that formation, we're going to lose every time, and lose big. Gaining 18 yards is NOT limiting the offense, and we were lucky that they only got 18. It took Sanborn catching Hill from behind to limit it to that.

I don't care what defense you're running. You can NOT let your slow linebacker to be matched up in isolation against the other team's fastest receiver. That's NOT good defense. It's a losing proposition every time.

Then you aren’t running the Cover 2. The reason it wasn’t as noticeable the last time the Bears ran Cover 2 is because Urlacher.

You can’t install a defense, give each player a role and responsibility within that defense and then say “ok except when there’s a mismatch”.

Comms are cut off to the helmet by that time, the defense has already been called, and the players don’t know where Hill is going.

The whole point of the defense is giving the offense generally whatever it wants between the 20s.

Urlacher was a freak. his reaction time, football intelligence and sideline to sideline speed, was what made that defense go. The cover 2 needs a good WLB and it helps when the MLB is fast and has good reaction time. Brian could mug the line and still get back into middle deep coverage faster than any one I can remember.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

Then you aren’t running the Cover 2. The reason it wasn’t as noticeable the last time the Bears ran Cover 2 is because Urlacher.

You can’t install a defense, give each player a role and responsibility within that defense and then say “ok except when there’s a mismatch”.

Comms are cut off to the helmet by that time, the defense has already been called, and the players don’t know where Hill is going.

The whole point of the defense is giving the offense generally whatever it wants between the 20s.

Urlacher was a freak. his reaction time, football intelligence and sideline to sideline speed, was what made that defense go. The cover 2 needs a good WLB and it helps when the MLB is fast and has good reaction time. Brian could mug the line and still get back into middle deep coverage faster than any one I can remember.

+1

The Bears' defenses under Lovie Smith were outstanding precisely for the reasons you've identified. The combination of Urlacher and Briggs made his common Cover 2 defense elite.

[dplank]

Indy had a very highly ranked defense, Flus defense specifically which is a slight variant, and they did not have an Urlacher type playing MLB. IMO the key to this is having a dominant front 4. One that can get after the QB when rushing just 4 and be strong/stout against the run as well. That will open everything else up and is where I'd be focusing most of my attention this off season both via draft and FA.

Build the lines.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

I see a lot of comments about how slow Sanborn is. I didn't see that in the replay of the game. His 40 time is 4.73. It's on the slow side, but we have all talked about how some players play slower than their 40 time, and some play much faster. One thing that comes up as very interesting, and more telling as to the potential that this kid has. Look at his shuttle and 3-cone times. Everything in this RAS profile is average EXCEPT these two metrics. Both of those are considered elite. It will be interesting to see how that plays out as his playing time increases.

[EricTighe]

Indy had a very highly ranked defense, Flus defense specifically which is a slight variant, and they did not have an Urlacher type playing MLB. IMO the key to this is having a dominant front 4. One that can get after the QB when rushing just 4 and be strong/stout against the run as well. That will open everything else up and is where I'd be focusing most of my attention this off season both via draft and FA.

Build the lines.

Only if the lineman are ranked high enough to warrant it. When we drafted Urlacher MLB wasn't a need since we just signed Cox. Draft the best available players regardless of position (except QB) and let everything figure itself out. You can always tinker with the roster through FA's. It is the GM's who reach that suffer. That is a proven fact.

Case in point if Ringo is available when we draft we should take him regardless of need. Then again everyone always needs CB's. We will know more by the end of the season.

There are two rules of thumb with a Defense. Great CB's make a D-line look better. A great D-line makes CB's look better. Two statements, where both are true.

[Yogi da Bear]

On that play, I don't think we were running a Cover 2. We were in a Cover 2 shell, but I didn't see Sanborn drop back into the deep middle like what would happen in a Cover 2.

That's Tampa 2. I don't remember us running Tampa 2 at all this year.

As deep as our safeties were playing, our CBs had to run quite a way with their guys regardless of our alignment.

Hill was in the slot, with the TE uncharacteristically a couple of yards away on his outside shoulder. Sanborn set up with inside leverage, just the way a cover 2 LB should in that situation. Both safeties and the CB who had the out-breaking TE were all within a couple of yards of Hill when he was tackled (Gordon looked to be a couple of feet away). All of that says cover 2, too.

They just called a nice, somewhat weird play, and it worked, kinda. We were down three and evidently wanted to prevent a touchdown at all costs. Instead, we gave up a first down. That's football sometimes.

I think you're right on the Tampa 2, but if we're running a standard Cover 2, we aren't doing it right, or at least, Gordon wasn't doing it right. It's my understanding that in a standard Cover 2, the linebackers are responsible for the underneath zones (if we aren't running a Tampa 2). In this case, Gordon as the nickel, is replacing the linebacker. His responsibility should be the short zone. It's worth noting that both Sanborn and Gordon were at the same depth at the start. He should have passed the TE off to the safety. If he had done that, he would have been in a position to stop Hill. Instead, he allowed the TE to draw him deep. So we end up with the TE double covered, and their best receiver (FUCKING TYREEK HILL) isolated against our linebacker.

Again, that should NEVER happen. I don't care what you're running. So either Gordon and Sanborn have to switch positions or Gordon has to cover that short zone (effectively doubling Hill). Or something. The Bear defense must have a response to this or Miami would have been running that all day long. You can't just say that mismatches happen. While that is true, you still must have a response to a particular formation that takes that mismatch away. You tell me what it is. Because from my position, if we're going to let Sanborn be isolated against Hill when we're in a Cover 2, we're fucked. And we're fucked with every team we play who has a speed receiver. And it doesn't matter if we have Sanborn, Roquan Smith, or Brian Urlacher, we'd still be fucked.