Sanborn to get more reps

[spudbear]

Announcers seem to be loving him in the game so far, and he's done well. He will occasionally get sucked in and miss an assignment to the outside, and then will be outrun by a RB. Then again, there's only a few LB's that can run with RB's.

[EricTighe]

Compared to the rest of our Defense this kid is a keeper. Someone has to explain how he went from a top 100 player to not being drafted. Not complaining cuz we got him. Just curious.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

Compared to the rest of our Defense this kid is a keeper. Someone has to explain how he went from a top 100 player to not being drafted. Not complaining cuz we got him. Just curious.

That's a great question. His 3-Cone and Shuttle times were considered elite, but the rest of his measurables were average. Maybe the hype train moved on to someone else and the GM's got on board. All I know is you're right. He's a keeper. He could be our franchise MLB for the next 7-10 years.

[dplank]

He does look good, particularly given his draft slot. But I also remember the love affair we all had with Kwit and wonder if he's actually that good, or if he just appears to be good relative to our low expectations. For example, when he makes a tackle 4 yards downfield, I am hearing people gush over him and when Roquan made the exact same tackle, I heard people complain about it. Expectations are a big part of how we view performance.

That said, Sanborn at 1M is a much better deal than Roquan at 20M! So the Roquan haters win that argument IMO.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Did anyone hate Roquan or was the debate simply about how much he was worth contract-wise?

At least one person advocating paying him that $20m+ kept citing how Roquan was the leading tackler in the league as a key reason. Well Sanborn is doing pretty well in that regard.

In his 8 games with the Bears this season Roquan averaged 10.375 total tackles a game, 6.5 a game solo, with a total of 4 TFL including 2.5 sacks. He missed 4 tackles (4.6%). (He also allowed a 72.7% completion rate and had two INTs.)

In his 4 starts since Roquan was traded, Sanborn has averaged 10.75 total tackles a game, 8.5 a game solo, with a total of 3 TFL including 2 sacks. He's missed 1 tackle (2.0%). (He's also allowed a 75% completion rate and has had 1 FR plus he had an INT stolen by that ridiculous "hands-to-the-face" penalty when Johnson jammed his guy in the chest.)

Statistically that's pretty much a wash.

[The Cooler King]

Early returns are promising.

Can't imagine bringing him and Morrow as the starting two LB. At least one spot needs to be upgraded along with basically the whole DL.

Final decision TBD

[wab]

No one hated Roquan. That’s absurd.

[The Marshall Plan]

The issue isn't Roquan anymore it's this constant fellating of Sanborn done on this board and via chat. You all should be there for the Discord during games.

SANBORN!
He's always around the ball.

And on and on and on.

The hypocrisy of the argument is nauseating. The same traits that were dismissed about Roquan are being used to make Sanborn this kind of messianic figure.

I don't see myself actively rooting against a player, but I have an idea about what Sanborn is. He's the Flash In The Pan and it's a feel good story because he wasn't drafted or whatever.

The reality to me is that Roquan, a potential future HOF LB, was traded for peanuts in one of the dumbest moves I've seen in my 35 years as a Chicago sports fan; lately it's just been the Bears because I cannot tolerate the failure and bullshit anymore. But that's done now. It's still good to talk about like how we talk about Mitch from time to time to have fun.

But Sanborn is what he is.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

What Sanborn is, is a player performing very well in a flat out dreadful defense. Maybe he won't sustain that or maybe he'll turn out to be even better than Smith. It's far too early to say, just as it's too early to tell if Smith will make the Hall of Fame.

Acknowledging that Sanborn is performing well in the game-day chat isn't hypocrisy. People have also mentioned when they've seen him get washed out of a play. It's all done on a play-to-play basis. People lauded Smith when he made plays too and called him out when he made mistakes.

People are excited by Sanborn because at the moment he looks like a potential building block who could be with the team for a number of years. People were excited about Smith too early in his career for the same reason.

The debate around Smith was whether he was worth the contract he was demanding, the fact that he didn't have an agent and the way he publicly criticised Poles. He was always respected as a very good player although there were differences of opinion of just how good. Right now the Bears are getting equivalent production from Sanborn to what they were getting from Smith at fraction of the cost.

[Burl]

My guess is that Sunburn isn't some budding superstar, but that he's a decent young player who might continue to improve.
What's interesting is that thus far, there's been no evident drop-off from Roquan's level to play to Sanborn's, and maybe even some improvement. I hope he keeps it up.
And, the guy isn't demanding a record contract.
So basically we're getting the same or better production, plus got a 2nd round pick and all at a discount. What's not to like?
My guess is the coaches saw this in the preseason and practice and were comfortable moving Ro because of Sanborn's abilities.

[Moriarty]

Who's better, straight up? Probably Roquan right now, but it's shockingly close.

Better value and therefore bigger asset to the team? Landslide blowout for Sanborn.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

Did anyone hate Roquan or was the debate simply about how much he was worth contract-wise?

At least one person advocating paying him that $20m+ kept citing how Roquan was the leading tackler in the league as a key reason. Well Sanborn is doing pretty well in that regard.

In his 8 games with the Bears this season Roquan averaged 10.375 total tackles a game, 6.5 a game solo, with a total of 4 TFL including 2.5 sacks. He missed 4 tackles (4.6%). (He also allowed a 72.7% completion rate and had two INTs.)

In his 4 starts since Roquan was traded, Sanborn has averaged 10.75 total tackles a game, 8.5 a game solo, with a total of 3 TFL including 2 sacks. He's missed 1 tackle (2.0%). (He's also allowed a 75% completion rate and has had 1 FR plus he had an INT stolen by that ridiculous "hands-to-the-face" penalty when Johnson jammed his guy in the chest.)

Statistically that's pretty much a wash.

No one hated Roquan's performance. He just wasn't a likeable guy, and wasn't worth the $20M+ he was throwing a tantrum over. Let someone else pay him $23M a year. Just glad it won't be the Bears.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

My guess is that Sunburn isn't some budding superstar, but that he's a decent young player who might continue to improve.
What's interesting is that thus far, there's been no evident drop-off from Roquan's level to play to Sanborn's, and maybe even some improvement. I hope he keeps it up.
And, the guy isn't demanding a record contract.
So basically we're getting the same or better production, plus got a 2nd round pick and all at a discount. What's not to like?
My guess is the coaches saw this in the preseason and practice and were comfortable moving Ro because of Sanborn's abilities.

Sanborn isn't going to be a top 5 LB in the league. He may make one or two Pro Bowls, for whatever that is worth anymore. BUT he will be a really good LB, that will always be where he should be, always give you maximum effort, and will eventually be a solid locker room guy. He is someone you can win a Super Bowl with, with the right pieces around him. Given EVERYTHING that the Bears need on defense right now, I don't think MLB is an immediate area of concern anymore.

[o-pus #40 in B major]

My guess is that Sunburn isn't some budding superstar, but that he's a decent young player who might continue to improve.
What's interesting is that thus far, there's been no evident drop-off from Roquan's level to play to Sanborn's, and maybe even some improvement. I hope he keeps it up.
And, the guy isn't demanding a record contract.
So basically we're getting the same or better production, plus got a 2nd round pick and all at a discount. What's not to like?
My guess is the coaches saw this in the preseason and practice and were comfortable moving Ro because of Sanborn's abilities.

I agree.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

We might get Roquan in FA

[thunderspirit]

We might get Roquan in FA

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

We might get Roquan in FA

After he realizes that his market value is $15M-$16M a year, no way does he come back to the Bears and allow Poles to be right. Won't happen.

[dplank]

No one hated Roquan. That’s absurd.

When someone calls him a "pussy" and "Sloquan" and rips on nearly every single play he makes during the live chat....yea, someone hated him. That someone's name is G08. I can call him out because he's man enough to take it in stride. His hatred of Roquan rivals only my love of the Queen.

[wab]

No one hated Roquan. That’s absurd.

When someone calls him a "pussy" and "Sloquan" and rips on nearly every single play he makes during the live chat....yea, someone hated him. That someone's name is G08. I can call him out because he's man enough to take it in stride. His hatred of Roquan rivals only my love of the Queen.

He hated the behavior, not the player IMO...but I'm sure he'll chime in.

[dplank]

When someone calls him a "pussy" and "Sloquan" and rips on nearly every single play he makes during the live chat....yea, someone hated him. That someone's name is G08. I can call him out because he's man enough to take it in stride. His hatred of Roquan rivals only my love of the Queen.

He hated the behavior, not the player IMO...but I'm sure he'll chime in.

It's all good just having fun

[The Marshall Plan]

No one hated Roquan. That’s absurd.

When someone calls him a "pussy" and "Sloquan" and rips on nearly every single play he makes during the live chat....yea, someone hated him. That someone's name is G08. I can call him out because he's man enough to take it in stride. His hatred of Roquan rivals only my love of the Queen.

Yep. This happens every game in Discord. Along with the donning of wax lips and knee pads to praise His Greatness Sanborn. Then also the references to Metallica for Enter Sanborn or whatever.

[wab]

When someone calls him a "pussy" and "Sloquan" and rips on nearly every single play he makes during the live chat....yea, someone hated him. That someone's name is G08. I can call him out because he's man enough to take it in stride. His hatred of Roquan rivals only my love of the Queen.

Yep. This happens every game in Discord. Along with the donning of wax lips and knee pads to praise His Greatness Sanborn. Then also the references to Metallica for Enter Sanborn or whatever.

I'm genuinely curious why you are so upset about replacing Roquan with essentially the same level of play, in addition to being at an exponentially cheaper price, plus more or less also getting a potential #1 WR in the process.

[The Marshall Plan]

Yep. This happens every game in Discord. Along with the donning of wax lips and knee pads to praise His Greatness Sanborn. Then also the references to Metallica for Enter Sanborn or whatever.

I'm genuinely curious why you are so upset about replacing Roquan with essentially the same level of play, in addition to being at an exponentially cheaper price, plus more or less also getting a potential #1 WR in the process.

And you know all of this after three games?

[wab]

I'm genuinely curious why you are so upset about replacing Roquan with essentially the same level of play, in addition to being at an exponentially cheaper price, plus more or less also getting a potential #1 WR in the process.

And you know all of this after three games?

Statistically there has been zero drop off.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

[dplank]

And you know all of this after three games?

Statistically there has been zero drop off.

There was a MASSIVE drop off in our entire defense. We were all told that tackling stats don't matter...what I do know is that after Roquan was traded, our defense imploded. Methinks he had more of an impact than just his stat sheet, he is an elite pass defender as a cover LB, a good blitzer, and needed to be accounted for on every play. Quinn had no stats at all, but folks are pinning our defensive spiral all on losing him? There's a weird inconsistency with all this. Bottom line is those two guys were holding this thing together for us and when they left, so did any semblance of a defense.

At any rate, it's in the past and I am happy that Sanborn looks like he could be a keeper. But I'm mindful of my own prior man crushes on guys like Kwit so I'm not busting out my HOF chisel just yet. I'll repeat it because I really think it's a super important point: our view of performance is heavily influenced by our expectations. Sanborn is outplaying his UDFA draft slot, and that impacts how we view his play.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Statistically there has been zero drop off.

There was a MASSIVE drop off in our entire defense. We were all told that tackling stats don't matter...what I do know is that after Roquan was traded, our defense imploded.

I suspect the quality of the opposition had an impact more than Smith's departure.

With Smith the defense gave up:
10 against the 49ers (currently ranked 15th in PPG) - the game was played in a monsoon.
27 against the Packers (currently ranked 23rd in PPG)
20 against the Texans (currently ranked 31st in PPG)
20 against the Giants (22nd in PPG)
29 against the Vikings (currently 12th in PPG)
12 against the Commanders (currently 24th in PPG)
14 against the Patriots (currently 18th in PPG)
49 against the Cowboys (currently 7th in PPG)

Since Smith was traded the defense has given up:
28 against the Dolphins (currently 6th in PPG) - the other 7 came on a blocked punt.
31 against the Lions (currently 8th in PPG)
20 against the Falcons (currently 14th in PPG) - the other 7 came on Patterson's kick off return.
31 against the Jets (currently 20th in PPG)

The last game was a disaster. Gordon and Brisker were already out and Jackson soon followed leaving the secondary completely decimated.

Looking at those rankings though they're largely consistent with and without Smith. The Bears have been giving up more points against higher scoring teams, which is hardly a surprise.

It's not going to get any better from here on out with the Packers followed by the Eagles (3rd), Bills (2nd), Lions (8th) and Vikings (12th).

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Some Sanborn highlights to enjoy from the each of the last 3 games:

[HisRoyalSweetness]

And more of his play from the All-22:

[RichH55]

Statistically there has been zero drop off.

There was a MASSIVE drop off in our entire defense. We were all told that tackling stats don't matter...what I do know is that after Roquan was traded, our defense imploded. Methinks he had more of an impact than just his stat sheet, he is an elite pass defender as a cover LB, a good blitzer, and needed to be accounted for on every play. Quinn had no stats at all, but folks are pinning our defensive spiral all on losing him? There's a weird inconsistency with all this. Bottom line is those two guys were holding this thing together for us and when they left, so did any semblance of a defense.

At any rate, it's in the past and I am happy that Sanborn looks like he could be a keeper. But I'm mindful of my own prior man crushes on guys like Kwit so I'm not busting out my HOF chisel just yet. I'll repeat it because I really think it's a super important point: our view of performance is heavily influenced by our expectations. Sanborn is outplaying his UDFA draft slot, and that impacts how we view his play.

This is a pretty bad take. Pretty much across the Board.

I think Sanborn can be what I thought Roquon could be - A good football player, not a game changer


I also - especially this year - think calling Roquon "an elite Cover LB" is foolish