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IE wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 2:01 pm
wab wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 12:10 pm
So, honest question then... why would Pringle want to stay and be the 4th or 5th receiving option?
I don't think he would, if that's what he thought. When they're discussing contracts, it isn't "you'll be the #4 guy". He's been on a team with Reek and Kelce and some other pretty good players. I doubt he's intimidated by this crew in the least. I probably should have said "be" instead of "go" because I didn't mean he absolutely has to go. He just needs to believe he'll have the chance, and he might still think that is in Chicago.
I think that 3rd spot behind Mooney and Claypool comes down to Pringle or Harry honestly.

I will say that I feel like ESB is the Sam Mustipher of the WR room. He should not be out there playing key plays in the football game. The outcome of the game should not depend on him catching a pass.

But for whatever reason, they seem to like him because he is always where he's supposed to be and he tries real hard and blocks real good (for a WR).

They might as well put 20lbs on him and move him to TE.
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Benching Velus Jones is the wrong move for the Bears’ future
...

Jones fumbled fourth-quarter punts in back-to-back games last month and has been used all-too-sparingly on offense. The arrival of Chase Claypool via trade and pending return of Byron Pringle from injured reserve has pushed Jones further down the depth chart.

Benching their third-round pick against the Dolphins, though, was antithetical to what should be the Bears’ only goal this season: to find players who will be on their next good team.

Eberflus said those opportunities are afforded during practice — and not games.

“Certainly, we look at that and we understand that,” Eberflus said. “But we do that more in practice. For the game, we’re going to put the best guys up for the game to win that game.”

Jones acknowledged there were two ways he could take being ahealthy scratch.

“You can let it take you down a dark place and stuff like that mentally, or you can use it as motivation to get you better,” he said. “I’ve been using it for motivation. . . . Being the competitor that I am, it just showed me that I gotta improve, I gotta do more, put in more work to get where I want to be.”

Eberflus cited special-teams needs when explaining why he sat Jones. He lost his punt-return job after fumbling against the

Giants and Commanders and had precious few chances on kick returns.
...

Jones has been a little-used gadget player on offense. He has run 12 pass routes all season, catching three balls for 24 yards and dropping the fourth, a 50-yard pass at the front right pylon against the Cowboys. He has run three times for 41 yards.

Jones said he has to improve “everything” about his game.

“That’s why I run extra routes after practice,” he said. “Focus, looking every ball in. With special teams, being on the [pitching] machine, doing everything I can to get better.”

Adding Claypool and eventually promoting Pringle off IR makes finding playing time tougher, though it’s fair to wonder where Equanimeous St. Brown stands after dropping a sure first down on fourth-and-10 toward the end of Sunday’s game. St. Brown has only 11 catches for 164 yards this season. The Bears value run-blocking, though, and Pro Football Focus considers him fifth-best in the league at it.

Will he be on the Bears’ next good team, though? Will Jones?

“Obviously the room’s a little bit fuller now because we’ve got guys back — and with additions of certain players, you’re just in there competing,” Eberflus said. “Do you know your job? Do you know your motions? Do you know how to block the point when we’re running the ball on the perimeter and hustle on the back side? But then it comes down to being a playmaker. That position to me is a game-changer, play-making position. And there’s a lot of competition in there right now, which is good for us.”

Full article: https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2022 ... cratch-nfl
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November 3, 2022: The Buffalo Bills signed WR Isaiah Coulter to the practice squad.
November 1, 2022: The Chicago Bears waived WR Isaiah Coulter.
October 18, 2022: The Chicago Bears elevated WR Isaiah Coulter to the active roster.
August 31, 2022: The Chicago Bears signed WR Isaiah Coulter to the practice squad.
August 30, 2022: The Chicago Bears waived WR Isaiah Coulter.
September 1, 2021: The Chicago Bears assigned WR Isaiah Coulter to the practice squad.
August 23, 2021: The Chicago Bears signed WR Isaiah Coulter.
Bummer.
I didn't realize Coulter didn't go back to the PS when Claypool was signed. :(

He was one of my favorite "young longshots".
Ex-R5 pick with nice measurables.
Had him around for 1.5 yrs.
Showed well in preseason, but got no real regular look (21 snaps)
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wab wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 3:11 pm
IE wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 2:01 pm

I don't think he would, if that's what he thought. When they're discussing contracts, it isn't "you'll be the #4 guy". He's been on a team with Reek and Kelce and some other pretty good players. I doubt he's intimidated by this crew in the least. I probably should have said "be" instead of "go" because I didn't mean he absolutely has to go. He just needs to believe he'll have the chance, and he might still think that is in Chicago.
I think that 3rd spot behind Mooney and Claypool comes down to Pringle or Harry honestly.

I will say that I feel like ESB is the Sam Mustipher of the WR room. He should not be out there playing key plays in the football game. The outcome of the game should not depend on him catching a pass.

But for whatever reason, they seem to like him because he is always where he's supposed to be and he tries real hard and blocks real good (for a WR).

They might as well put 20lbs on him and move him to TE.
I like the idea of moving him to H-Back. And I can get the criticism. That drop was heartrending. Yet, according to Pro Football Reference, it was his only drop of the year. Pretty harsh stance to take for only one drop.

Personally, I find it difficult to understand why fans in general are so determined to not to recognize players' abilities to improve. Once they have it in their head a player is no good, that's it. He's forever no good. Many fans, for instance, are already writing off Velus Jones as a draft pick for his catastrophic drop and two fumbles. I don't look at it that way. Get both ESB on VJJ on the jugs machine. Work it out. You know who had a ton of drops as a rookie? Jerry Rice. 10 of them in fact to only 26 receptions and at crucial times. So yes, I believe that players can get better, even as devastating as some of their drops and fumbles can be.

Just my take.
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Yogi da Bear wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 11:42 am
wab wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 3:11 pm

I think that 3rd spot behind Mooney and Claypool comes down to Pringle or Harry honestly.

I will say that I feel like ESB is the Sam Mustipher of the WR room. He should not be out there playing key plays in the football game. The outcome of the game should not depend on him catching a pass.

But for whatever reason, they seem to like him because he is always where he's supposed to be and he tries real hard and blocks real good (for a WR).

They might as well put 20lbs on him and move him to TE.
I like the idea of moving him to H-Back. And I can get the criticism. That drop was heartrending. Yet, according to Pro Football Reference, it was his only drop of the year. Pretty harsh stance to take for only one drop.

Personally, I find it difficult to understand why fans in general are so determined to not to recognize players' abilities to improve. Once they have it in their head a player is no good, that's it. He's forever no good. Many fans, for instance, are already writing off Velus Jones as a draft pick for his catastrophic drop and two fumbles. I don't look at it that way. Get both ESB on VJJ on the jugs machine. Work it out. You know who had a ton of drops as a rookie? Jerry Rice. 10 of them in fact to only 26 receptions and at crucial times. So yes, I believe that players can get better, even as devastating as some of their drops and fumbles can be.

Just my take.
In general, players can sometimes improve.

However, ESB is a 4th yr player with his second team. He's started all 9 games this year and isn't even averaging 20 yds/game. What you see is what you get there.

VJJ is at least a rookie who's missed time with injury. He still has some hope for growth. However, it's also known that he's a very old rookie at 25, having spent 6 years in college - and he still came out with a rep for not knowing how to run routes.
Route-running technique and releases can be taught, but Jones isn’t new to the position, so his ceiling may be lower than a younger, more raw prospect.
So the possibility is there, but not like if he was 22 and spent college on the bench until having one breakout season as a starter, after the guy ahead of him graduated.
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Yogi da Bear wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 11:42 am
wab wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 3:11 pm

I think that 3rd spot behind Mooney and Claypool comes down to Pringle or Harry honestly.

I will say that I feel like ESB is the Sam Mustipher of the WR room. He should not be out there playing key plays in the football game. The outcome of the game should not depend on him catching a pass.

But for whatever reason, they seem to like him because he is always where he's supposed to be and he tries real hard and blocks real good (for a WR).

They might as well put 20lbs on him and move him to TE.
I like the idea of moving him to H-Back. And I can get the criticism. That drop was heartrending. Yet, according to Pro Football Reference, it was his only drop of the year. Pretty harsh stance to take for only one drop.

Personally, I find it difficult to understand why fans in general are so determined to not to recognize players' abilities to improve. Once they have it in their head a player is no good, that's it. He's forever no good. Many fans, for instance, are already writing off Velus Jones as a draft pick for his catastrophic drop and two fumbles. I don't look at it that way. Get both ESB on VJJ on the jugs machine. Work it out. You know who had a ton of drops as a rookie? Jerry Rice. 10 of them in fact to only 26 receptions and at crucial times. So yes, I believe that players can get better, even as devastating as some of their drops and fumbles can be.

Just my take.
The biggest problem with ESB is not his hands, it's his route running. It's terrible. His breaks are slow and rounded off, his stems drift.
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With VJJ's speed, I can't believe the Bears don't have him running shorter routes in which he has more of a chance to catch it and then use those jets for more yards. Yes, he dropped a clearly catchable long pass, maybe that's not his forte.
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For all the talk about Harry, it's interesting that he's a healthy scratch this week. Jones is too.

Yet more examples of fans having hope for players rather than realistic expectations?

The fact that the coaches prefer the uninspiring EQB and Pettis over either of these two doesn't bode well for their futures in Chicago.
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Yogi da Bear wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 11:42 am
wab wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 3:11 pm

I think that 3rd spot behind Mooney and Claypool comes down to Pringle or Harry honestly.

I will say that I feel like ESB is the Sam Mustipher of the WR room. He should not be out there playing key plays in the football game. The outcome of the game should not depend on him catching a pass.

But for whatever reason, they seem to like him because he is always where he's supposed to be and he tries real hard and blocks real good (for a WR).

They might as well put 20lbs on him and move him to TE.
I like the idea of moving him to H-Back. And I can get the criticism. That drop was heartrending. Yet, according to Pro Football Reference, it was his only drop of the year. Pretty harsh stance to take for only one drop.

Personally, I find it difficult to understand why fans in general are so determined to not to recognize players' abilities to improve. Once they have it in their head a player is no good, that's it. He's forever no good. Many fans, for instance, are already writing off Velus Jones as a draft pick for his catastrophic drop and two fumbles. I don't look at it that way. Get both ESB on VJJ on the jugs machine. Work it out. You know who had a ton of drops as a rookie? Jerry Rice. 10 of them in fact to only 26 receptions and at crucial times. So yes, I believe that players can get better, even as devastating as some of their drops and fumbles can be.

Just my take.
That cuts both ways though. Once someone decides that a player is good, he will forever be "misused" in the eyes of fans no matter how bad he looks. Like, can you believe there's people out there who after 8 years still think Mariota is a franchise QB who's just been mismanaged?
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A nice moment...

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HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:32 pm A nice moment...

That's a quality move by him.
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Bears Whiskey Nut wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:29 pm
HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:32 pm A nice moment...

That's a quality move by him.
Very cool
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HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 12:08 pm For all the talk about Harry, it's interesting that he's a healthy scratch this week. Jones is too.

Yet more examples of fans having hope for players rather than realistic expectations?

The fact that the coaches prefer the uninspiring EQB and Pettis over either of these two doesn't bode well for their futures in Chicago.
I'd rather see Jones and Harry more than EQB and Pettis.
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Arkansasbear wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:59 am
HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 12:08 pm For all the talk about Harry, it's interesting that he's a healthy scratch this week. Jones is too.

Yet more examples of fans having hope for players rather than realistic expectations?

The fact that the coaches prefer the uninspiring EQB and Pettis over either of these two doesn't bode well for their futures in Chicago.
I'd rather see Jones and Harry more than EQB and Pettis.
Agreed. Pringle can go play golf in AZ for all I care.
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Bears Whiskey Nut wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:29 pm
HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:32 pm A nice moment...

That's a quality move by him.
The second kid, the little one, who throws the ball tosses it like Mitch.
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Article in The Suntimes about the renaissance of Cole Kmet. Before the season, I was hoping for 600 to 700 yards in receptions, 5 TDs or so. His yardage is still low but he was used more a blocker early in the season, there were games in which he wasn't even the target of any passes. He's not fast but he's showing toughness (bowling over a defender in the Miami game and other examples), playing smart (wide open against Detroit for a TD), decent hands.We're seeing the Getsy offense get more on track every game and the TE is an integral part of it. Bring up Chase Allen from the practice squad to see if he can be that pass catching TE machine which would help the offense:

https://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/202 ... r-business
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Like Fields, I’m really happy to see his fumbles come down. That looked like a liability last year.
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Grizzled wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 7:37 am Bring up Chase Allen from the practice squad to see if he can be that pass catching TE machine which would help the offense:
I wouldn't hold your breath.
He's big, slow, didn't put up yardage in college, and profiled as a tough, gritty blocker who can catch a little. (Which is more or less the description of every TE they have not named Kmet)
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Moriarty wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:06 am
Grizzled wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 7:37 am Bring up Chase Allen from the practice squad to see if he can be that pass catching TE machine which would help the offense:
I wouldn't hold your breath.
He's big, slow, didn't put up yardage in college, and profiled as a tough, gritty blocker who can catch a little. (Which is more or less the description of every TE they have not named Kmet)
You're right, I just looked at his pre-draft profile. The Bears needs a pass-catching TE machine, blocking optional. Kmet is proving to be a dual-threat blocking and catching guy.

Harry, ESB, Pettis, and Pringle all have one year contracts through '22. Mooney, Claypool, and Kmet have contracts through '23; VJJ is signed through '25. I might be going out on a limb here but, with how the season's gone and what the team is looking for through the end of the season, give the pass attempts to those guys you might be interested in bringing back. I think it should only include Harry but if Pringle proves out, him also.
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Grizzled wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:57 am
Moriarty wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:06 am

I wouldn't hold your breath.
He's big, slow, didn't put up yardage in college, and profiled as a tough, gritty blocker who can catch a little. (Which is more or less the description of every TE they have not named Kmet)
You're right, I just looked at his pre-draft profile. The Bears needs a pass-catching TE machine, blocking optional. Kmet is proving to be a dual-threat blocking and catching guy.
Yeah, I don't understand why their TE room minus Kmet looks like it was assembled by Mike Martz. I get that the line was suspect and you want some quality blockers. But you don't need a whole unit of guys that only do that.

Most of my favorite college receiver TEs (Musgrave, Kraft, Kuntz) have all been broken most of the season, too.
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Moriarty wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 12:11 pm
Grizzled wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:57 am

You're right, I just looked at his pre-draft profile. The Bears needs a pass-catching TE machine, blocking optional. Kmet is proving to be a dual-threat blocking and catching guy.
Yeah, I don't understand why their TE room minus Kmet looks like it was assembled by Mike Martz. I get that the line was suspect and you want some quality blockers. But you don't need a whole unit of guys that only do that.

Most of my favorite college receiver TEs (Musgrave, Kraft, Kuntz) have all been broken most of the season, too.
Maybe now that the Bears have discovered that the TE is actually an effective weapon, they'll try to bring in at least one other guy who can be open over the middle, etc.

Just read an article conjecturing Claypool at the Z, ESB at the X, Mooney in the slot, Pringle as the #4. #5 is a tossup between Harry and Jones. It doesn't appear the Bears have given up on VJJ. Every article asks the same question: why isn't Claypool being used more?
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Minus TEs (ok, minus Kmet, to be more precise), receiver room developments are not encouraging


Pringle has been back 2 games, with
32 snaps, 2 targets, 1 catch, 12 yards :sick:

Claypool has 3 games
74 snaps, 11 targets, 5 catches, 32 yards

Pettis - a guy with limited future on the team, if any
got 72 snaps in the last 3 games

ESB - a who should have limited future on the team, if any
got 133 snaps in the last 3 games

Velus
8 snaps, 0 targets, 0 catches, 0 yards

Harry
Since coming back he's been
30 snaps, 50, 21, healthy inactive, debatably unhealthy inactive :-o




Of course, not all of this is on the receivers.
As I've said - the Justin Fields 150/100 model makes the receivers look worse than they are.
If you pass for 150/game and split that 5 ways between WR1, WR2, WR3, Kmet, HBs, you're not going to have many yards for your receivers (150/5 x 17 = about 500/season for a FT starter)
Last edited by Moriarty on Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Pringle was pretty bad in the limited action he got yesterday. Claypool gets an incomplete, because it has never been about this year with him...just getting a head start on next year.

Harry not being active has been surprising. I'm assuming he's not part of the long-term plans.
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While I'd like to see a #1 WR to help Fields out, I'm not sure that's in the cards outside of hope that Claypool becomes that guy.
Claypool... Will be around next year, contract year in 23.
Mooney... Contract year in 23.
Pringle... I'm not seeing it.
Harry... Has had chances and seeing very little.
ESB... Can make occasional catch. Great blocker. I'd keep as a #5 or #6.
Pettis... After early dropsies, brings some value and can return punts adequately. I'd keep as a #5 or #6.

I'd be looking to replace those middle guys.
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I kind of want to key in on Pringle the rest of the year - see if there is more there
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I was a big fan of signing Pringle and was down on signing ESB. Thus far, I was shown to be wrong about the first and reasonably close to expectations on the second.

I haven't seen anything in Harry that suggests he's worth keeping. Pettis I'd be willing to bring back as a camp body while turning over every stone to try and replace him.
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dplank wrote:I agree with Rich here
RichH55 wrote: Dplank is correct
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RichH55 wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 2:13 pm I kind of want to key in on Pringle the rest of the year - see if there is more there
His blocking on Sunday would have made Allen Robinson feel embarrassed.
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thunderspirit wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 3:08 pm I was a big fan of signing Pringle and was down on signing ESB. Thus far, I was shown to be wrong about the first and reasonably close to expectations on the second.

I haven't seen anything in Harry that suggests he's worth keeping. Pettis I'd be willing to bring back as a camp body while turning over every stone to try and replace him.
I think it's hard to get a read on Harry thus far. He's played weeks 7, 8 and 9 and been on the field for 42 63 and 28% of the snaps those games. For a total of 101 snaps and targeted a total of 5 times.

I think ESB is what he is and teams need guys like him, but we need to find people that can do more. I too thought Pringle could be that guy and thought Harry could as well. I'd rather see both of them get more reps/targets than ESB. I think we've seen his ceiling and only the floor of the other 2.
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WR is still a need IMO. Claypool is pure projection, Mooney is very good but not great, and I don't like anyone else.

BTW Getsy, please stop the end around to ESB - he moves like a sloth.
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wab wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 4:06 pm
RichH55 wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 2:13 pm I kind of want to key in on Pringle the rest of the year - see if there is more there
His blocking on Sunday would have made Allen Robinson feel embarrassed.
Ill watch more on that too - Thanks
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