C prospect Andrew Vorhees tears ACL

[UOK]

[wulfy]

That sucks for that kid.

[Moriarty]

Impressive strength and toughness.
His 2023 is shot, though.

He might be one of those "don't draft him, we're going to re-enter the draft next year and we won't sign" deals.
But if not, he could be a nice late value.

[thunderspirit]

This sucks for Vorhees.

This is (part of) why the Combine should be paid for the participants. The NFL has made it a reality show, so there should be some recompense for the performers on that show. The coaches, scouts, GMs, and media members are getting paid to be there. So should the guys everyone has come to see.

[Moriarty]

This sucks for Vorhees.

This is (part of) why the Combine should be paid for the participants. The NFL has made it a reality show, so there should be some recompense for the performers on that show. The coaches, scouts, GMs, and media members are getting paid to be there. So should the guys everyone has come to see.

I'm not sure what you can do.

I was thinking about pay in a different context of coercing more participation. But if you give 10k each to 300+ ppts, that's 3M+ right there.
And the NFL only pays out 20-25M to players (2 teams, collectively) per regular season game.
I know combine popularity has grown and it does provide more than 4 hours of content. But how much higher could you reasonably go? 20k? 50k?

Would a player willingly risk their draft position over 20k?
Would Vorhees feel much better right now with an extra 20k?

You could try 'insuring' players over significant injury while participating, like this instance. But I feel like that could get very messy in practice with trying to prove there was or wasn't already pre-existing damage.

Yeah, of course they should get something, just on principle. But I'm suspicious about it being all that meaningful.

[RustinFields]

You could try 'insuring' players over significant injury while participating, like this instance. But I feel like that could get very messy in practice with trying to prove there was or wasn't already pre-existing damage.

Insurance companies trying to weasel out of paying out claims due to pre-existing conditions? that would never happen, cut it out with this fantastical bullshit.

[thunderspirit]

This sucks for Vorhees.

This is (part of) why the Combine should be paid for the participants. The NFL has made it a reality show, so there should be some recompense for the performers on that show. The coaches, scouts, GMs, and media members are getting paid to be there. So should the guys everyone has come to see.

I'm not sure what you can do.

I was thinking about pay in a different context of coercing more participation. But if you give 10k each to 300+ ppts, that's 3M+ right there.
And the NFL only pays out 20-25M to players (2 teams, collectively) per regular season game.
I know combine popularity has grown and it does provide more than 4 hours of content. But how much higher could you reasonably go? 20k? 50k?

Would a player willingly risk their draft position over 20k?
Would Vorhees feel much better right now with an extra 20k?

You could try 'insuring' players over significant injury while participating, like this instance. But I feel like that could get very messy in practice with trying to prove there was or wasn't already pre-existing damage.

Yeah, of course they should get something, just on principle. But I'm suspicious about it being all that meaningful.

Some compensation for the people who actually are doing the performing is better than none.

To address your first point: there's a fuckton the NFL can do. They won't, but that's not the same as "can."

[wab]

Man, that sucks for the kid.. but he's clearly one tough SOB. I'd still take him in the 5th or so.

[bearsoldier]

[RichH55]

I'm not sure what you can do.

I was thinking about pay in a different context of coercing more participation. But if you give 10k each to 300+ ppts, that's 3M+ right there.
And the NFL only pays out 20-25M to players (2 teams, collectively) per regular season game.
I know combine popularity has grown and it does provide more than 4 hours of content. But how much higher could you reasonably go? 20k? 50k?

Would a player willingly risk their draft position over 20k?
Would Vorhees feel much better right now with an extra 20k?

You could try 'insuring' players over significant injury while participating, like this instance. But I feel like that could get very messy in practice with trying to prove there was or wasn't already pre-existing damage.

Yeah, of course they should get something, just on principle. But I'm suspicious about it being all that meaningful.

Some compensation for the people who actually are doing the performing is better than none.

To address your first point: there's a fuckton the NFL can do. They won't, but that's not the same as "can."

Feels like Moriaty's point is probably closer to the truth than a "Fuckton" to be honest

[RichH55]

Its a physical sport - if accountants could tear their Quad during the CPA exam maybe it would be different...

[karhu]

Man, that sucks for the kid.. but he's clearly one tough SOB. I'd still take him in the 5th or so.

A Dutch RT from USC? It'd never work.

[cblaz11]

I think we need to cancel the combine…It’s outrageous that we make athletes that are trying out for NFL teams run around and do athletic things.

Also, these NFL teams are investing millions in these players…I cannot believe they make them spend a day interviewing for the job. Making these poor kids run around for a few hours…making them go get medical test to prove they can do the job they are going to get paid millions for. Why can’t the NFL teams just take the players word for it and pay them.

[mmmc_35]

I think we need to cancel the combine…It’s outrageous that we make athletes that are trying out for NFL teams run around and do athletic things.

Also, these NFL teams are investing millions in these players…I cannot believe they make them spend a day interviewing for the job. Making these poor kids run around for a few hours…making them go get medical test to prove they can do the job they are going to get paid millions for. Why can’t the NFL teams just take the players word for it and pay them.

Dude I had to do this shit for jobs too. I feel I'm fairly player friendly. However if part of your job is physical, it's not ridiculous to do physical shit for an interview. I actually think it should be even more standardized and they should quit pro days. The NFL should pay for his medical bills too.


That all said I want to draft this guy now.

[dplank]

I think we need to cancel the combine…It’s outrageous that we make athletes that are trying out for NFL teams run around and do athletic things.

Also, these NFL teams are investing millions in these players…I cannot believe they make them spend a day interviewing for the job. Making these poor kids run around for a few hours…making them go get medical test to prove they can do the job they are going to get paid millions for. Why can’t the NFL teams just take the players word for it and pay them.

Dude I had to do this shit for jobs too. I feel I'm fairly player friendly. However if part of your job is physical, it's not ridiculous to do physical shit for an interview. I actually think it should be even more standardized and they should quit pro days. The NFL should pay for his medical bills too.


That all said I want to draft this guy now.

Agree. It's super rare that something like this happens. IMO, the league has the means to do more than just cover medical bills (I'm sure the NCAA team will do it anyways assuming he's still finishing out his school there and hasn't left yet). But I think the league should compensate guys in the RARE circumstance that something like this happens. They could setup a simple insurance policy for every player that pays them 1M or something if they incur a significant injury while performing during the combine. It would be dirt cheap for the league because this almost never happens.

[wab]

Running a 40 for an offensive lineman is dumb. The combine overall is not.

[pus]

I think plank has a good take on this.

The league absolutely has to take better care of the athletes and this would be one place where that might be relatively easy to accomplish.

I'm thinking the NFL could find an insurance underwriter who would play ball.

[Moriarty]

There's no doubt you should be able to do simple tests as part of a job interview. And for a 1M+ job, flying out for a few days is entirely reasonable.
As far as that goes, I'm a real hardliner that feels that participation ideally would be mandatory for anyone who wants an NFL player job. I don't think you can, because it's too easy to claim a pulled hamstring, sore ankle, or whatever. But ideally.


However, don't overlook the twin points:
a) You can get badly hurt doing these tests, even if you are in proper physical shape for the job, which typically is not true of other things.
b) The NFL is profiting on showing the Combine on cable. Does it turn a profit or just help offset the costs of hosting it? Don't know, but I'm guessing the former.
If that's the case, then using interviews to generate revenue (without sharing) is kind of scummy. That's not unlike a company having interviewees come in and code a solution to a "realistic problem the company faces"...and then the company actually takes the code, uses it, and doesn't compensate for your contribution.

It's not as bad, because maybe 60% of invitees get an NFL job for at least a year at 750k+ and probably 30% get 100-700k from partial roster time and/or PS time. But, still, there's no guarantee.

[RichH55]

Is there any evidence the NFL doesn't have some type of insurance on this?

I run relatively small events - and we have insurance

I can't imagine these things aren't insured to the hilt

[Middleguard]

I run relatively small events - and we have insurance

Small = need insurance
Large = self insured

[RichH55]

There's no doubt you should be able to do simple tests as part of a job interview. And for a 1M+ job, flying out for a few days is entirely reasonable.
As far as that goes, I'm a real hardliner that feels that participation ideally would be mandatory for anyone who wants an NFL player job. I don't think you can, because it's too easy to claim a pulled hamstring, sore ankle, or whatever. But ideally.


However, don't overlook the twin points:
a) You can get badly hurt doing these tests, even if you are in proper physical shape for the job, which typically is not true of other things.
b) The NFL is profiting on showing the Combine on cable. Does it turn a profit or just help offset the costs of hosting it? Don't know, but I'm guessing the former.
If that's the case, then using interviews to generate revenue (without sharing) is kind of scummy. That's not unlike a company having interviewees come in and code a solution to a "realistic problem the company faces"...and then the company actually takes the code, uses it, and doesn't compensate for your contribution.

It's not as bad, because maybe 60% of invitees get an NFL job for at least a year at 750k+ and probably 30% get 100-700k from partial roster time and/or PS time. But, still, there's no guarantee.

I'd say these two things:

1) I don't think the NFL made the combine (or the Draft for that matter) for the express purpose of making it a TV Event - that's just a nice bonus for them that it worked out that way

2) If the Money the NFL makes on the Combine TV is considered shareable revenue (I do not know either way) - that supercedes the above points because the Players ARE getting their share

[Moriarty]

There's no doubt you should be able to do simple tests as part of a job interview. And for a 1M+ job, flying out for a few days is entirely reasonable.
As far as that goes, I'm a real hardliner that feels that participation ideally would be mandatory for anyone who wants an NFL player job. I don't think you can, because it's too easy to claim a pulled hamstring, sore ankle, or whatever. But ideally.


However, don't overlook the twin points:
a) You can get badly hurt doing these tests, even if you are in proper physical shape for the job, which typically is not true of other things.
b) The NFL is profiting on showing the Combine on cable. Does it turn a profit or just help offset the costs of hosting it? Don't know, but I'm guessing the former.
If that's the case, then using interviews to generate revenue (without sharing) is kind of scummy. That's not unlike a company having interviewees come in and code a solution to a "realistic problem the company faces"...and then the company actually takes the code, uses it, and doesn't compensate for your contribution.

It's not as bad, because maybe 60% of invitees get an NFL job for at least a year at 750k+ and probably 30% get 100-700k from partial roster time and/or PS time. But, still, there's no guarantee.

I'd say these two things:

1) I don't think the NFL made the combine (or the Draft for that matter) for the express purpose of making it a TV Event - that's just a nice bonus for them that it worked out that way

2) If the Money the NFL makes on the Combine TV is considered shareable revenue (I do not know either way) - that supercedes the above points because the Players ARE getting their share

No, it certainly didn't start out that way, but it's definitely evolved into something that generates money.

That's an interesting thought about revenue share.
I'm guessing Combine and Draft coverage isn't included, but I could be wrong.
However, even if it is, I'm almost positive that money just goes into setting the salary cap number - it's not spread out evenly amongst Combine participants.

[thunderspirit]

I'm certain it's not going to the participants, because the guys at the Combine and the draft aren't in the NFLPA until they sign their contract. I'd venture to guess it isn't part of sharable revenue for the same reason.

It's just shitty to me that the NFL doesn't compensate the prospects who make up the Combine viewing spectacle. I get it that I'm likely in the minority on that, but I still think it stinks.

[EricTighe]

Take a flier on the kid in day 3. Could end up as Whitehair replacement after one year.

[TheWorldBreaker]

I agree that he would be a great day three value pick that could pay huge dividends next year.