The DJ Moore Thread

[HisRoyalSweetness]

This offense is so close to greatness now. Getsy needs to run 3 WR sets on virtually every play.

But, but, but... they've just re-signed Blasingame!

[RichH55]

Everyone acknowledges that we don’t know how Claypool will ultimately perform and so judging the results of the trade can’t happen until after this upcoming season. Any claims that is what we are saying here are strawman arguments and not understanding the point being made, so I will again try and clarify it.

I’m not judging the results I’m judging the bet itself. Meaning, the probability of a successful outcome vs an unsuccessful outcome, the cost of the bet, and the potential return of successful. That’s all I’m talking about here, the bet itself. I think he made a poor bet all things considered. That doesn’t mean he won’t win the hand, it just means it was a bad bet in my view which isn’t something you want to be doing regularly as law of averages eventually catches up with you.

As to why I see it as a bad bet:

1. The cost was REALLY high. It was uncertain when he placed the bet, but a reasonable assumption was it was in the 32 - 38 range. The fact that it turned into #32 sucks but was within the range of potential outcomes and that cost is now set. There is zero argument here that the cost isn’t high, it is very high.

2. The time window to achieve a positive result is too short. We have one season of Claypool to evaluate him. We have one season of Claypool at a low cost, then his cost will balloon if we have a successful outcome, therefore minimizing his actual value vs cost. If it goes the other way and we don’t keep him, full on disaster as we pissed away a premium pick for nothing.

3. The upside on winning the bet is dampened by the contract it will require to keep him. Another potential option for apples could have been to keep our pick and try to sign Claypool as a UFA next offseason.

4. I don’t like Claypool’s attitude and think he could be a problem in the locker room. I’m not claiming this with certainty, it’s JMO but it plays a part in my personal analysis of the deal. You may disagree.

So when I look at all of this on one hand, and the #32 pick (with 4 years of contract control) on the other hand, I have a hard time with the deal. Can it still work out? Absolutely yes it can and I absolutely hope it does and I will root for that outcome. I just don’t think Poles placed a value bet here, I’m hoping he wins in spite of that.

This is not going for the jugular IE, I think this is a very reasonable opinion.

Many of these words do not mean what you think they mean. Like Disaster? 2nd Round picks flop or under-perform all the time. They don't bring down the Franchise like the Titanic.

You don't like Poles so every potential mistake or misstep = DEBACLE !!!! DISASTER!!!!! Nonsense

It's also very funny hearing you talk about trading picks for players that you have to resign, i.e. pay, when you advocate for that ALL THE TIME

You would have dealt the #1 pick + for DK Metcalf. 2nd Round pick for Robbie Gould, etc etc

But at least we can jump on Claypool's attitude - Because you are right there in the Locker Room right!! You see him in the Film sessions, you see how he interacts with teammates on the Team Flight?

Right?

I don't know how people do it - Some folks can tell he's the best and smartest from a Press Conference - While others can tell the heart of his soul from a 10 second cutaway on Fox.

It's impressive. (Or complete nonsense)

Now when posters said things about players you like - Jenkins or Roquon - you made a big show of Keyboard Warriors shouldn't talk about Players they know nothing about! These guys work hard yadda yadda

You don't like the guy (or just that he's a Poles guy?) - Then we can just make HUGE assumptions that they are a locker room cancer

[RichH55]

Eh, it still makes the Claypool trade go from “having potential” to “unnecessary”.

That #32 pick would mean all the difference in the world now.

Agree, Poles made a big ass mistake on the Claypool debacle.

"This is not going for the jugular IE, I think this is a very reasonable opinion."

You guys gotta get your story straight

[G08]

I've said this before but I'm waiting to see what Claypool can do with Fields and this offense after a full-offseason/camp together.

He's a 50/50 specialist (although I think he's weaker at the point of attack than he should be).

[wab]

Something can actually be considered a poor decision in hindsight. It’s ok to say that.

One of these darts that Poles keeps throwing at WRs needs to eventually hit. Moore should finally be that guy.

Doesn’t make the decision to trade a premium pick for Claypool any less of a bad decision now though.

It can - but the move was clearly for the 2023 season - Which ummmm ahem hasn't happened yet?

You can't have hindsight on events that have yet to occur - Posters on this board aren't Scott Bakula in Quantum Leap

Thanks for Richsplaining to me how time works.

I can absolutely judge the trade within the context of now having DJ Moore on the roster. Hindsight or not.

If you recall I was actually a fan of the Claypool trade and understood that it was for 2023. The impact of that is significantly lessened by Moore’s presence, and the likelihood of the Bears maximizing the value of the pick they traded has decreased along with the likelihood that Claypool is retained.

[The Marshall Plan]

It can - but the move was clearly for the 2023 season - Which ummmm ahem hasn't happened yet?

You can't have hindsight on events that have yet to occur - Posters on this board aren't Scott Bakula in Quantum Leap

Thanks for Richsplaining to me how time works.

I can absolutely judge the trade within the context of now having DJ Moore on the roster. Hindsight or not.

If you recall I was actually a fan of the Claypool trade and understood that it was for 2023. The impact of that is significantly lessened by Moore’s presence, and the likelihood of the Bears maximizing the value of the pick they traded has decreased along with the likelihood that Claypool is retained.

I know how time works. This montage is also a great explanation of what it's like to be a Bears fan.

[thunderspirit]

Thanks for Richsplaining to me how time works.

I can absolutely judge the trade within the context of now having DJ Moore on the roster. Hindsight or not.

If you recall I was actually a fan of the Claypool trade and understood that it was for 2023. The impact of that is significantly lessened by Moore’s presence, and the likelihood of the Bears maximizing the value of the pick they traded has decreased along with the likelihood that Claypool is retained.

I know how time works. This montage is also a great explanation of what it's like to be a Bears fan.

Time takes a cigarette, puts it in your mouth

You pull on your finger, then another finger, then your cigarette

[Rusty Trombagent]

This offense is so close to greatness now. Getsy needs to run 3 WR sets on virtually every play.

But, but, but... they've just re-signed Blasingame!

I'm pretty sure we're going to be running a lot of "12" personnel. (12 men on the field)

[dplank]

I know how time works. This montage is also a great explanation of what it's like to be a Bears fan.

Time takes a cigarette, puts it in your mouth

You pull on your finger, then another finger, then your cigarette

Bowie's greatest song IMO

[RichH55]

It can - but the move was clearly for the 2023 season - Which ummmm ahem hasn't happened yet?

You can't have hindsight on events that have yet to occur - Posters on this board aren't Scott Bakula in Quantum Leap

Thanks for Richsplaining to me how time works.

I can absolutely judge the trade within the context of now having DJ Moore on the roster. Hindsight or not.

If you recall I was actually a fan of the Claypool trade and understood that it was for 2023. The impact of that is significantly lessened by Moore’s presence, and the likelihood of the Bears maximizing the value of the pick they traded has decreased along with the likelihood that Claypool is retained.

Always happy to Richsplain:)


DJ Moore is a fair enough part for the hindsight - though we differ

I still think even with DJ Moore - that pick in the 30s COULD have been a WR still (granted more years of lower cost)

And ultimately the Chase Claypool deal will come down to whether Chase Claypool is good IMHO. If he's a 1000 Yard guy and/or big TD guy - I think we are all very happy with the trade

DJ Moore just looks - to me - that Poles is hedging some/ taking advantage of an opportunity

[RichH55]

Another thing on the Claypool deal/butterfly effect.

I think if the Packers got him - it really strengths the odds they make the playoffs - strengthens the odds Rodgers stays

Granted we dont even know if that is good or bad (I assume Rodgers being gone is a good thing for us - I cannot rule out Love being good - though it would surprise me)

So just another what if type speculation

[HurricaneBear]

What if the Moore and Claypool trades say more about Poles feelings about Mooney then anything else? His intention could be Moore/Claypool going forward. It's not like Mooney lit the world on fire when given the chance last season.

[dplank]

What if the Moore and Claypool trades say more about Poles feelings about Mooney then anything else? His intention could be Moore/Claypool going forward. It's not like Mooney lit the world on fire when given the chance last season.

I like having a Thunderdome competition with Mooney and Claypool this year. Two men enter, one gets an extension.

[RichH55]

What if the Moore and Claypool trades say more about Poles feelings about Mooney then anything else? His intention could be Moore/Claypool going forward. It's not like Mooney lit the world on fire when given the chance last season.

Its tough to catch balls that aren't thrown

[Rusty Trombagent]

What if the Moore and Claypool trades say more about Poles feelings about Mooney then anything else? His intention could be Moore/Claypool going forward. It's not like Mooney lit the world on fire when given the chance last season.

Yeah, this has been bouncing around my nogging. People have been talking like Claypool is going to be the slot, but historically mooney has been most dangerous from the slot, and Matt Canada moving Claypool to the slot last year is what sent him spiraling.

I like Mooney a lot, but I could 100% see them thinking/hoping that Claypool and Moore blossom on the outside together and old man velus becomes functional in the slot.

[wab]

Another thing on the Claypool deal/butterfly effect.

I think if the Packers got him - it really strengths the odds they make the playoffs - strengthens the odds Rodgers stays

Granted we dont even know if that is good or bad (I assume Rodgers being gone is a good thing for us - I cannot rule out Love being good - though it would surprise me)

So just another what if type speculation

I actually hadn’t thought of that…

[G08]

What if the Moore and Claypool trades say more about Poles feelings about Mooney then anything else? His intention could be Moore/Claypool going forward. It's not like Mooney lit the world on fire when given the chance last season.

I've thought about that, but Poles has GUSHED about Mooney every opportunity he was given to speak about the kid.

[dplank]

He gushed about Monty too, and all signs point to him not being brought back right now. He also praised Quinn repeatedly before trading him for a ham sandwich and a bag of Fritos.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

I've said this before but I'm waiting to see what Claypool can do with Fields and this offense after a full-offseason/camp together.

He's a 50/50 specialist (although I think he's weaker at the point of attack than he should be).

Just a little reminder of his potential...

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

Watching a lot of DJ Moore footage, I have to say, the guy is super talented. There are players in this league that go to the Combine and run a 4.4 40 yard dash, but can't translate that speed to the field. That is NOT DJ Moore. That dude seems to play faster and bigger than his measurables. I think everybody would have been ecstatic if we were able to trade down, secure two first round picks, and get a top defensive player AND Jaxon Smith-Njigba in the first round. Well Poles did one better and will get a top defensive player and has secured a proven WR. The more I marinate on this trade, the Moore (HA!) I like it.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

What if the Moore and Claypool trades say more about Poles feelings about Mooney then anything else? His intention could be Moore/Claypool going forward. It's not like Mooney lit the world on fire when given the chance last season.

Its tough to catch balls that aren't thrown

What if they’re dropped?

Then you can catch them

[HurricaneBear]

He gushed about Monty too, and all signs point to him not being brought back right now. He also praised Quinn repeatedly before trading him for a ham sandwich and a bag of Fritos.

I agree, I believe very little of what Poles says, and I like that!

For me it's kind of refreshing to think that our general manager lies to us because he has a strategy and not because he's an idiot trying to cover up for it.

[Atkins&Rebel]

Poles reminds me of a guy in my dynasty auction league. He has a price he's willing to pay for guys and that's it. This is more of an analytics approach. We won't know for awhile if he has a limit per player he's willing to spend or if its a positional total. But there does seem to be a limit. Some of us will whine that just a little bit more would have gotten x player, but as soon as you open that can of worms, you get Pace's approach which was bad contracts are OK if you can get a chip. Pittsburgh and NE both were notorious for staying true to spending limits and tried to continuously build through the draft.

DJ, along with Claypool and Mooney and whomever we fill in around them will be the most talented WR group we've ever had in Chicago. I'm not disappointed at that situation at all. Yeah that high 2nd rounder woulda been nice, but if Poles' plan was to get Fields talent around him so there's no excuses (kinda like Buffalo and Philly did with their young studs), then losing a high 2nd is worth that commitment.

Positionally, XYZ, it really doesn't matter where guys will be listed, because Getsy uses motion and multiple formations to put guys in different positions anyway.

[dplank]

He gushed about Monty too, and all signs point to him not being brought back right now. He also praised Quinn repeatedly before trading him for a ham sandwich and a bag of Fritos.

For me it's kind of refreshing to think that our general manager lies to us because he has a strategy and not because he's an idiot trying to cover up for it.

Lmao it’s funny cause it’s true

[IE]

Everyone acknowledges that we don’t know how Claypool will ultimately perform and so judging the results of the trade can’t happen until after this upcoming season.

But then you go ahead and do it.

As to why I see it as a bad bet:

1. The cost was REALLY high.

2. The time window to achieve a positive result is too short.

3. The upside on winning the bet is dampened by the contract it will require to keep him.

You're judging that the cost was too high - but you already admitted you don't know until after the upcoming season.

The window isn't necessarily short, and the contract speculation is premature- they could re-sign him for 4 years, if he proves to be super worthy and earns a DJ-like contract extension. I think if he replicates even close to his first seasson (say 900 yards and 8+ TDs as the 2nd or 3rd target) that would be positive. You say you don't think he'll do something like that - but he's ALREADY done it! What you're saying is you don't think he can repeat what he's already done. But based on what?

You've advocated strongly for paying DK top dollar AND give up a high first rounder for him... so you (rightly) know that you have to pay to surround your young QB with weapons, and you've acknowledged that can cost - and be worth - both high picks and big cash. If folks want to conflate the deals then fine - Poles is going to get DJ Moore and Claypool for pick 32 and about the same cost of DK for the next 3 years. Seems like a fine deal, and not a big ass mistake.

4. I don’t like Claypool’s attitude and think he could be a problem in the locker room.

This is not going for the jugular IE, I think this is a very reasonable opinion.

I think the truth sort of came out in that last part where you clearly have an opinion about him & his attitude that we really don't know is anything at all. I do consider criticizing a guy without substantial evidence to be going for the jugular. This is the basis for the big ass mistake comment.

You're entitled to not like him for whatever reason. But that doesn't support your case and actually makes it look biased.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Just bask in this a moment.

Bears top 3 WR combine numbers:

Moore
40 yard time: 4.42
Vertical leap: 39.5"
Broad jump: 11"

Mooney
40 yard time: 4.37
Vertical leap: 37"
Broad jump: 10"4

Claypool
40 yard time: 4.42
Vertical leap: 40.5"
Broad jump: 10"6

Those are some pretty explosive numbers. Athleticism is certainly not going to be an issue.

[dplank]

Everyone acknowledges that we don’t know how Claypool will ultimately perform and so judging the results of the trade can’t happen until after this upcoming season.

But then you go ahead and do it.

As to why I see it as a bad bet:

1. The cost was REALLY high.

2. The time window to achieve a positive result is too short.

3. The upside on winning the bet is dampened by the contract it will require to keep him.

You're judging that the cost was too high - but you already admitted you don't know until after the upcoming season.

The window isn't necessarily short, and the contract speculation is premature- they could re-sign him for 4 years, if he proves to be super worthy and earns a DJ-like contract extension. I think if he replicates even close to his first seasson (say 900 yards and 8+ TDs as the 2nd or 3rd target) that would be positive. You say you don't think he'll do something like that - but he's ALREADY done it! What you're saying is you don't think he can repeat what he's already done. But based on what?

You've advocated strongly for paying DK top dollar AND give up a high first rounder for him... so you (rightly) know that you have to pay to surround your young QB with weapons, and you've acknowledged that can cost - and be worth - both high picks and big cash. If folks want to conflate the deals then fine - Poles is going to get DJ Moore and Claypool for pick 32 and about the same cost of DK for the next 3 years. Seems like a fine deal, and not a big ass mistake.

4. I don’t like Claypool’s attitude and think he could be a problem in the locker room.

This is not going for the jugular IE, I think this is a very reasonable opinion.

I think the truth sort of came out in that last part where you clearly have an opinion about him & his attitude that we really don't know is anything at all. I do consider criticizing a guy without substantial evidence to be going for the jugular. This is the basis for the big ass mistake comment.

You're entitled to not like him for whatever reason. But that doesn't support your case and actually makes it look biased.

Bro - why are you unable to distinguish not liking the bet he placed vs pretending as if I know the outcome of that bet? I can’t explain it any simpler, please read slowly and try to comprehend the point because you’ve missed it completely.

You can bet a large amount on a pair of 10’s against a pair of Jacks, hit a 10 on the river and win the bet. That doesn’t make it a smart bet. The bet and the outcome of the bet are two different things. I’m judging the bet, not the outcome, and explaining why I don’t like the bet. Please try and understand instead of lashing out

[dave99]

I think the Bears were 3 and 5 when they made the trade for Claypool. The offense was starting to cook but they needed more weapons.
They probably didn't like or want to wait for FA and I doubt they expected to be picking so high.
Anyway Fields needed help and they went and found one. They used draft capital because that's all they had. GB screwed us as usual by running up the price.
Context is important.

[IE]

Please try and understand instead of lashing out

LOL... accusing someone else of not being able to read with comprehension is lashing out. Calling something a big ass mistake without full information is lashing out. I have excellent comprehension and see exactly where you're coming from: You don't like the bet because you don't like Pool. Which is fine but just say it.

[IE]

I think the Bears were 3 and 5 when they made the trade for Claypool. The offense was starting to cook but they needed more weapons.
They probably didn't like or want to wait for FA and I doubt they expected to be picking so high.
Anyway Fields needed help and they went and found one. They used draft capital because that's all they had. GB screwed us as usual by running up the price.
Context is important.

Context is hugely important. At that same time there was advocacy to give up the Bears first rounder and $30MM a year for DK. That pick ended up being the top pick in the draft. But nobody is tearing into that proposed trade idea - because that would be hindsight and not reasonable. The POINT at the time was it was worth a high pick and top dollars right then to get a weapon for JF1. Not necessarily an immediate weapon - but because FA and the draft coming up were underwhelming. That's the context. The rationale was sound at the time. But Poles didn't go as far as to use his first rounder he sacrificed his 2nd rounder. And like you said it was GB who allowed Pittsburgh to demand the higher 2nd.