Grade The Trade....Down

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Moderator: wab

Grade The Trade Down

10: OMG this is amazing. Herschel Walker Trade 2.0
3
6%
9
15
31%
8
23
48%
7
3
6%
6
2
4%
5: Meh. I'd grade it a lot higher if we got Gardner Minshew as part of the deal.
2
4%
4
0
No votes
3
0
No votes
2
0
No votes
1: This is Rick Mirer all over again. Fire Ryan Poles.
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 48
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Arkansasbear wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 1:02 pm I gave it a 9 when I voted.

I thought that DJ Moore was a solid addition and well worth making the '25 pick be a 2nd rather than a first.

But man, he looks to be WAY better than I thought he was (and I thought he was a great player). It's not just the catch and run from the pre-season game, it's EVERYTHING about him that we've seen. The catches he makes in practice, the relationship he is building with Fields (both on and off the field), and the leadership he seems to be bringing. As others have said he can clearly do for this team what Diggs and Brown did when they got traded.

Depending on how the other picks go, we may need an "11 - Makes the Walker trade look like a failure for the Cowboys."
Can/Might/Could/Hopefully aren't the same as Has
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But at least you aren't going the Claypool contract change of mind

Where you loved the trade initially but in large part because of Claypools contracts you dont like it 4 months later - As if the contract morphed into something different
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wab wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 1:01 pm This weird Rich baiting is weird.
Lol yeah he’s the victim.

Are you sure he’s not an alt? ;)
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Did I just inadvertently stop Rich from breaking his own record of consecutive posts at 4?
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The record is more than that - but counting to like 5? Gary from Libertyville aint here to count!
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RichH55 wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 1:16 pm
Arkansasbear wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 1:02 pm I gave it a 9 when I voted.

I thought that DJ Moore was a solid addition and well worth making the '25 pick be a 2nd rather than a first.

But man, he looks to be WAY better than I thought he was (and I thought he was a great player). It's not just the catch and run from the pre-season game, it's EVERYTHING about him that we've seen. The catches he makes in practice, the relationship he is building with Fields (both on and off the field), and the leadership he seems to be bringing. As others have said he can clearly do for this team what Diggs and Brown did when they got traded.

Depending on how the other picks go, we may need an "11 - Makes the Walker trade look like a failure for the Cowboys."
Can/Might/Could/Hopefully aren't the same as Has
Very true. That's why it got a 9 from me. Was just pointing out Moore is showing to be a VERY good addition and this very well could be "the moment" we returned to the team I watched growing up.
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Arkansasbear wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 1:32 pm
RichH55 wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 1:16 pm

Can/Might/Could/Hopefully aren't the same as Has
Very true. That's why it got a 9 from me. Was just pointing out Moore is showing to be a VERY good addition and this very well could be "the moment" we returned to the team I watched growing up.
COULD be - I mean I'd wager he Will be a very good addition - but its could right now

That hasn't changed since trade- and remains to be proven in real games with the Bears - Again, I believe he WILL get there. But we don't have to get ahead of ourselves and declare it a fact just yet
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RichH55 wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 1:47 pm
Arkansasbear wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 1:32 pm

Very true. That's why it got a 9 from me. Was just pointing out Moore is showing to be a VERY good addition and this very well could be "the moment" we returned to the team I watched growing up.
COULD be - I mean I'd wager he Will be a very good addition - but its could right now

That hasn't changed since trade- and remains to be proven in real games with the Bears - Again, I believe he WILL get there. But we don't have to get ahead of ourselves and declare it a fact just yet
I simply don't understand the discussion you're trying to have on this. So I'll explain what I was saying better.

When we made the trade I was us getting a WR that should arguably be considered a top 10 WR in the NFL. We also got 2 excellent picks in the 2 first round picks and a very good pick in the 2nd round pick. At the time I didn't think the trade would be a "franchise changer" like the Walker pick was. So I gave it a 9.

Everything I've seen, heard or read about Moore and what he is doing is making me think he may EXCEED what I though he could do for this team. Excellent draft picks are all about the potential they can bring to the team. This team has time and time again blown it with such picks. When I see what Poles did with Brisker, Gordon and Jones and the UDFA he brought in last year, and couple that with what we've seen (albeit is small sample size) from this year's crop: I have more faith me might actually be really good at this whole GM thing. That's giving me more hope that Wright will be a great player and those remaining picks turn into great players.

IF all that happens, then like Robin said "Holy Astringent Plum-Like Fruit!"

I don't think it's getting ahead of myself and declaring it a fact when I say "Depending on how the other picks go." That's the whole point of the word "Depending." Could go that way (and there is some tangible evidence to suggest it could) or if could go in a different direction.

Hope that helps.
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Arkansasbear wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 3:05 pm
RichH55 wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 1:47 pm

COULD be - I mean I'd wager he Will be a very good addition - but its could right now

That hasn't changed since trade- and remains to be proven in real games with the Bears - Again, I believe he WILL get there. But we don't have to get ahead of ourselves and declare it a fact just yet
I simply don't understand the discussion you're trying to have on this. So I'll explain what I was saying better.

When we made the trade I was us getting a WR that should arguably be considered a top 10 WR in the NFL. We also got 2 excellent picks in the 2 first round picks and a very good pick in the 2nd round pick. At the time I didn't think the trade would be a "franchise changer" like the Walker pick was. So I gave it a 9.

Everything I've seen, heard or read about Moore and what he is doing is making me think he may EXCEED what I though he could do for this team. Excellent draft picks are all about the potential they can bring to the team. This team has time and time again blown it with such picks. When I see what Poles did with Brisker, Gordon and Jones and the UDFA he brought in last year, and couple that with what we've seen (albeit is small sample size) from this year's crop: I have more faith me might actually be really good at this whole GM thing. That's giving me more hope that Wright will be a great player and those remaining picks turn into great players.

IF all that happens, then like Robin said "Holy Astringent Plum-Like Fruit!"

I don't think it's getting ahead of myself and declaring it a fact when I say "Depending on how the other picks go." That's the whole point of the word "Depending." Could go that way (and there is some tangible evidence to suggest it could) or if could go in a different direction.

Hope that helps.
If you haven't noticed yet, Rich does not care for hyperbole, exaggeration, embellishment, puffery, or dare I say...purple prose. Nor does he care for overstatements like "Will be" instead of "could be".

While I agree that words matter, he cuts them no slack. Oftentimes to his detriment.
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I gave this trade a 10 out of the gate, because:

- I believe DJ Moore is one of the better WRs out there & will instantly become the best Bear WR ever.
- It also produced a top right tackle that the Bears graded as their top prospect
- I liked what I saw in Stevenson (and now that I really see him holy crap I like how that kid plays he does remind me of Peanut)
- The likely high first rounder in '24 and 2nd rounder in '25 will allow Poles to keep bringing in blue chippers on cheap(er) contracts to offset JF1 and others

So now I give it an 11.
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wab wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 3:12 pm
Arkansasbear wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 3:05 pm

I simply don't understand the discussion you're trying to have on this. So I'll explain what I was saying better.

When we made the trade I was us getting a WR that should arguably be considered a top 10 WR in the NFL. We also got 2 excellent picks in the 2 first round picks and a very good pick in the 2nd round pick. At the time I didn't think the trade would be a "franchise changer" like the Walker pick was. So I gave it a 9.

Everything I've seen, heard or read about Moore and what he is doing is making me think he may EXCEED what I though he could do for this team. Excellent draft picks are all about the potential they can bring to the team. This team has time and time again blown it with such picks. When I see what Poles did with Brisker, Gordon and Jones and the UDFA he brought in last year, and couple that with what we've seen (albeit is small sample size) from this year's crop: I have more faith me might actually be really good at this whole GM thing. That's giving me more hope that Wright will be a great player and those remaining picks turn into great players.

IF all that happens, then like Robin said "Holy Astringent Plum-Like Fruit!"

I don't think it's getting ahead of myself and declaring it a fact when I say "Depending on how the other picks go." That's the whole point of the word "Depending." Could go that way (and there is some tangible evidence to suggest it could) or if could go in a different direction.

Hope that helps.
If you haven't noticed yet, Rich does not care for hyperbole, exaggeration, embellishment, puffery, or dare I say...purple prose. Nor does he care for overstatements like "Will be" instead of "could be".

While I agree that words matter, he cuts them no slack. Oftentimes to his detriment.
Except with me. Rich and I seem to understand each other. Such that one guy might think I'm egging him on while another thinks I'm...uh...his cheerleader or some such thing. He often cracks me up.

Anyway he is a Lawyer and a guy smart enough to meet Alex Trabek. The answer is "He is a scum sucking bottom feeder and not a fish" as in the Jeopardy answer "What is the difference between a Lawyer and a Carp?"
I'm gone. Have a nice life. I'm clearly not wanted here.
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The Grizzly One wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 3:47 pm
wab wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 3:12 pm

If you haven't noticed yet, Rich does not care for hyperbole, exaggeration, embellishment, puffery, or dare I say...purple prose. Nor does he care for overstatements like "Will be" instead of "could be".

While I agree that words matter, he cuts them no slack. Oftentimes to his detriment.
Except with me. Rich and I seem to understand each other. Such that one guy might think I'm egging him on while another thinks I'm...uh...his cheerleader or some such thing. He often cracks me up.

Anyway he is a Lawyer and a guy smart enough to meet Alex Trabek. The answer is "He is a scum sucking bottom feeder and not a fish" as in the Jeopardy answer "What is the difference between a Lawyer and a Carp?"
I get along with Rich and don't think he has an issue with me. I was just pointing out to him when he was saying it "could" be that way, that is exactly what I was saying:

Depending = could

"is showing to to be a very good addition and this very well could be" = could

"Depending on how the other picks go" does not = declaring it a fact

So as the judge, I just threw some of that lawyer shit back at him to show why he was wrong to question my authority. :rofl: :rofl:
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And for the record, no one will ever have to question if I have issue with them, I'm more than happy to speak my mind.
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wab wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 3:12 pm
Arkansasbear wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 3:05 pm

I simply don't understand the discussion you're trying to have on this. So I'll explain what I was saying better.

When we made the trade I was us getting a WR that should arguably be considered a top 10 WR in the NFL. We also got 2 excellent picks in the 2 first round picks and a very good pick in the 2nd round pick. At the time I didn't think the trade would be a "franchise changer" like the Walker pick was. So I gave it a 9.

Everything I've seen, heard or read about Moore and what he is doing is making me think he may EXCEED what I though he could do for this team. Excellent draft picks are all about the potential they can bring to the team. This team has time and time again blown it with such picks. When I see what Poles did with Brisker, Gordon and Jones and the UDFA he brought in last year, and couple that with what we've seen (albeit is small sample size) from this year's crop: I have more faith me might actually be really good at this whole GM thing. That's giving me more hope that Wright will be a great player and those remaining picks turn into great players.

IF all that happens, then like Robin said "Holy Astringent Plum-Like Fruit!"

I don't think it's getting ahead of myself and declaring it a fact when I say "Depending on how the other picks go." That's the whole point of the word "Depending." Could go that way (and there is some tangible evidence to suggest it could) or if could go in a different direction.

Hope that helps.
If you haven't noticed yet, Rich does not care for hyperbole, exaggeration, embellishment, puffery, or dare I say...purple prose. Nor does he care for overstatements like "Will be" instead of "could be".

While I agree that words matter, he cuts them no slack. Oftentimes to his detriment.
So now we're at the point where we make excuses for Rich and need to tailor our vocabulary a certain way? How about you just tell the fucking troll to knock if off and blend in?

For me, I thought JF1 was HEROIC on Saturday. His command of the offense and the decisions he made reminded me of Eisenhower planning and executing Operation Overlord.

I am extremely proud of JF1 and glad that I have stood fast and supported him from the very beginning.

I think that JF1 WILL BE known as the one of the best QBs in the league.
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RichH55 wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 1:47 pm
Arkansasbear wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 1:32 pm

Very true. That's why it got a 9 from me. Was just pointing out Moore is showing to be a VERY good addition and this very well could be "the moment" we returned to the team I watched growing up.
COULD be - I mean I'd wager he Will be a very good addition - but its could right now

That hasn't changed since trade- and remains to be proven in real games with the Bears - Again, I believe he WILL get there. But we don't have to get ahead of ourselves and declare it a fact just yet
Yes, yes we do need to declare it fact right now.

Fields is the MVP. Heroics will drive him straight to the crown.

Moore is the offensive player of the year.

The Bears do win the Super Bowl.

All unquestionable, absolute facts. It has been written, and so it shall come to pass.
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IE wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 3:40 pm I gave this trade a 10 out of the gate, because:

- I believe DJ Moore is one of the better WRs out there & will instantly become the best Bear WR ever.
- It also produced a top right tackle that the Bears graded as their top prospect
- I liked what I saw in Stevenson (and now that I really see him holy crap I like how that kid plays he does remind me of Peanut)
- The likely high first rounder in '24 and 2nd rounder in '25 will allow Poles to keep bringing in blue chippers on cheap(er) contracts to offset JF1 and others

So now I give it an 11.
Yeah we're getting really close to 10 territory. Where the 2024 Carolina first rounder lands matters to me in that number.

However I think that number WILL BE really high up in the draft.
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wab wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 3:12 pm
Arkansasbear wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 3:05 pm

I simply don't understand the discussion you're trying to have on this. So I'll explain what I was saying better.

When we made the trade I was us getting a WR that should arguably be considered a top 10 WR in the NFL. We also got 2 excellent picks in the 2 first round picks and a very good pick in the 2nd round pick. At the time I didn't think the trade would be a "franchise changer" like the Walker pick was. So I gave it a 9.

Everything I've seen, heard or read about Moore and what he is doing is making me think he may EXCEED what I though he could do for this team. Excellent draft picks are all about the potential they can bring to the team. This team has time and time again blown it with such picks. When I see what Poles did with Brisker, Gordon and Jones and the UDFA he brought in last year, and couple that with what we've seen (albeit is small sample size) from this year's crop: I have more faith me might actually be really good at this whole GM thing. That's giving me more hope that Wright will be a great player and those remaining picks turn into great players.

IF all that happens, then like Robin said "Holy Astringent Plum-Like Fruit!"

I don't think it's getting ahead of myself and declaring it a fact when I say "Depending on how the other picks go." That's the whole point of the word "Depending." Could go that way (and there is some tangible evidence to suggest it could) or if could go in a different direction.

Hope that helps.
If you haven't noticed yet, Rich does not care for hyperbole, exaggeration, embellishment, puffery, or dare I say...purple prose. Nor does he care for overstatements like "Will be" instead of "could be".

While I agree that words matter, he cuts them no slack. Oftentimes to his detriment.
This is rather fair - probably markedly so.

Usually its not so much semantics because people will literally just say we have the worst OL!

Whereas this is more semantics type stuff
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HurricaneBear wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 4:16 pm
RichH55 wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 1:47 pm

COULD be - I mean I'd wager he Will be a very good addition - but its could right now

That hasn't changed since trade- and remains to be proven in real games with the Bears - Again, I believe he WILL get there. But we don't have to get ahead of ourselves and declare it a fact just yet
Yes, yes we do need to declare it fact right now.

Fields is the MVP. Heroics will drive him straight to the crown.

Moore is the offensive player of the year.

The Bears do win the Super Bowl.

All unquestionable, absolute facts. It has been written, and so it shall come to pass.


This actually puts you as a borderline pessimist around here
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Arkansasbear wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 3:05 pm
RichH55 wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 1:47 pm

COULD be - I mean I'd wager he Will be a very good addition - but its could right now

That hasn't changed since trade- and remains to be proven in real games with the Bears - Again, I believe he WILL get there. But we don't have to get ahead of ourselves and declare it a fact just yet
I simply don't understand the discussion you're trying to have on this. So I'll explain what I was saying better.

When we made the trade I was us getting a WR that should arguably be considered a top 10 WR in the NFL. We also got 2 excellent picks in the 2 first round picks and a very good pick in the 2nd round pick. At the time I didn't think the trade would be a "franchise changer" like the Walker pick was. So I gave it a 9.

Everything I've seen, heard or read about Moore and what he is doing is making me think he may EXCEED what I though he could do for this team. Excellent draft picks are all about the potential they can bring to the team. This team has time and time again blown it with such picks. When I see what Poles did with Brisker, Gordon and Jones and the UDFA he brought in last year, and couple that with what we've seen (albeit is small sample size) from this year's crop: I have more faith me might actually be really good at this whole GM thing. That's giving me more hope that Wright will be a great player and those remaining picks turn into great players.

IF all that happens, then like Robin said "Holy Astringent Plum-Like Fruit!"

I don't think it's getting ahead of myself and declaring it a fact when I say "Depending on how the other picks go." That's the whole point of the word "Depending." Could go that way (and there is some tangible evidence to suggest it could) or if could go in a different direction.

Hope that helps.
All fair Ark

I think its just too early - I've read enough Puff Offseason pieces in my time to want to see it on the Field (pardon the word choice!!!!) - And I was typing in my Ahmed Merritt jersey too - Just a rough combo for making assuming on the Preseason

Also - I really think people should look at that Walker trade - it's a really high barrier
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RichH55 wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 5:30 pm it's a really high barrier
the bar may indeed be high - but still I remain surprised at some who pass it
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RichH55 wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 5:30 pm
Arkansasbear wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 3:05 pm

I simply don't understand the discussion you're trying to have on this. So I'll explain what I was saying better.

When we made the trade I was us getting a WR that should arguably be considered a top 10 WR in the NFL. We also got 2 excellent picks in the 2 first round picks and a very good pick in the 2nd round pick. At the time I didn't think the trade would be a "franchise changer" like the Walker pick was. So I gave it a 9.

Everything I've seen, heard or read about Moore and what he is doing is making me think he may EXCEED what I though he could do for this team. Excellent draft picks are all about the potential they can bring to the team. This team has time and time again blown it with such picks. When I see what Poles did with Brisker, Gordon and Jones and the UDFA he brought in last year, and couple that with what we've seen (albeit is small sample size) from this year's crop: I have more faith me might actually be really good at this whole GM thing. That's giving me more hope that Wright will be a great player and those remaining picks turn into great players.

IF all that happens, then like Robin said "Holy Astringent Plum-Like Fruit!"

I don't think it's getting ahead of myself and declaring it a fact when I say "Depending on how the other picks go." That's the whole point of the word "Depending." Could go that way (and there is some tangible evidence to suggest it could) or if could go in a different direction.

Hope that helps.
All fair Ark

I think its just too early - I've read enough Puff Offseason pieces in my time to want to see it on the Field (pardon the word choice!!!!) - And I was typing in my Ahmed Merritt jersey too - Just a rough combo for making assuming on the Preseason

Also - I really think people should look at that Walker trade - it's a really high barrier
The thing that makes it so hard is I don’t know if Dallas actually used any of those picks on players directly. I think they bundled them with other picks to move up. But those moves did help net them Emmitt Smith, Russell Maryland, Darron Woodson and others.

It’s clearly a high bar. If you were to evaluate each trade looking simply at what was received at the time - the player and the picks - I might say what we got exceeded what Dallas got value wise. We got a proven very good NFL WR and 3 picks. A number 9 pick, a first round pick most would agree is likely a top 10 pick (or close to it).

Dallas got three first round picks but they were coming from Minny at a time they were Super Bowl contenders. So you’d think those picks are like coming in at 20 or later.

That said we gave up more. Walker was a super star but only 2 years left on his contract (I think that correct he played for Minny 2 years). We gave up the first pick in the draft. I’d think that picks has more value than Walker did. But RBs had more value back then so maybe it’s closer than I think.
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 4:14 pm
wab wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 3:12 pm

If you haven't noticed yet, Rich does not care for hyperbole, exaggeration, embellishment, puffery, or dare I say...purple prose. Nor does he care for overstatements like "Will be" instead of "could be".

While I agree that words matter, he cuts them no slack. Oftentimes to his detriment.
So now we're at the point where we make excuses for Rich and need to tailor our vocabulary a certain way? How about you just tell the fucking troll to knock if off and blend in?

For me, I thought JF1 was HEROIC on Saturday. His command of the offense and the decisions he made reminded me of Eisenhower planning and executing Operation Overlord.

I am extremely proud of JF1 and glad that I have stood fast and supported him from the very beginning.

I think that JF1 WILL BE known as the one of the best QBs in the league.
That’s what you took from my post huh?
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Sat Aug 12, 2023 7:30 am
Bearfacts wrote: Sat Aug 12, 2023 2:56 am From what I've heard so far Poles could not have found a better #1 WR for Fields. Their chemistry so far has been reported as being amazing and he's brought the kind of an attitude and work ethic others are seeing and working to mirror. He's in his prime and has a contract in which his cap costs reduce by 20% the next two years. For our purposes he's a good as having gotten another 2023 top ten pick and with the Bears he can easily become a top ten WR if he's not already.

The Darnell Wright pick fills a massive hole we had at RT. He's only 22 years old and has Pro Bowl potential as early as year two. We also have control of him on his rookie deal for up to five years. It's hard to think that along with Moore that Poles could have done any better in terms of getting immediate help at two key positions from this trade.

The second round pick was used in a trade up for Tyrique Stevenson who appears to have nailed down the starting LCB spot. Pitt took Joey Porter at #32 we got Stevenson at #56. Maybe some day we'll know which is better but for now we got a big hitting starting CB to fill out the starting secondary. I'm not gonna nit pick that or the failure to draft a DE.

This alone should be a nice haul and we still have two more picks; a 2024 1st and 2025 2nd where we should be able to add two more future starters. With two firsts in 2024 Poles should be able to fill a DE spot if needed or wherever he feels we need the most help. I'm not gonna spend time wondering if we could have gotten more because by delaying the decision we could also have gotten less. I'll just say what I have many times before when it comes to deal; "Pigs get fat but hogs get slaughtered. Don't worry. Be happy.
Getting DJ Moore instead of another first rounder was a genius move. A legit WR1 instead of hoping a pick works out was genius.

This is where I spend a lot of my Bears Time with my thoughts….

Carolina bombs out and gets the #1 pick which goes to us.
We are a middle of the road team and get let’s say the #16 pick.

Do we?

1) Trade JF1 and draft his replacement with the #1.
2) Keep JF1, draft a player at #1 which would presumably be Marvin Harrison Jr.
3) Trade the #1 and repeat the process? With Caleb Williams out there for the draft we’ll have bidders lining up. Say that it’s a similar deal. A proven player, 2 firsts and a second. I think Williams is a stronger prospect than any of the big four that got drafted this year, plus the QB position increases in value every year so the price could be higher.

If JF1 clearly breaks out and is the undeniable franchise QB our options are much easier. MHJ is a helluva prospect, but he’s not worth the opportunity cost of a proven player, 2 firsts and a second.

I think we go with Door #3.

Our pick at hypothetically #16 should just be BPA with a bias for the DL.
We'll know so much more relative to Fields by the end of this season. Then it's time to decide what to do in 2024 when he will be eligible for an extension or the exercise of his 5th year option. We'll also know where the 1st from Carolina slots in the draft order.

As it stands now Harrison is predicted to go within the first three picks. By draft weekend that could change but probably not all that dramatically. I imagine we may have a shot at him or a top OL or DL. Or as you point out we may be able to convert a top pick into another bevy of draft picks which will add more to a rebuild than any one player save maybe a franchise QB should Fields fail to ignite the team this coming season. We don't know that now but by December we will and so will Poles and the coaches.

So far Poles has shown an uncommonly good grasp of building his roster from both FA and the draft. I trust him and his agenda. So I'm still open to any and all possibilities.
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Bearfacts wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 1:49 am
The Marshall Plan wrote: Sat Aug 12, 2023 7:30 am

Getting DJ Moore instead of another first rounder was a genius move. A legit WR1 instead of hoping a pick works out was genius.

This is where I spend a lot of my Bears Time with my thoughts….

Carolina bombs out and gets the #1 pick which goes to us.
We are a middle of the road team and get let’s say the #16 pick.

Do we?

1) Trade JF1 and draft his replacement with the #1.
2) Keep JF1, draft a player at #1 which would presumably be Marvin Harrison Jr.
3) Trade the #1 and repeat the process? With Caleb Williams out there for the draft we’ll have bidders lining up. Say that it’s a similar deal. A proven player, 2 firsts and a second. I think Williams is a stronger prospect than any of the big four that got drafted this year, plus the QB position increases in value every year so the price could be higher.

If JF1 clearly breaks out and is the undeniable franchise QB our options are much easier. MHJ is a helluva prospect, but he’s not worth the opportunity cost of a proven player, 2 firsts and a second.

I think we go with Door #3.

Our pick at hypothetically #16 should just be BPA with a bias for the DL.
We'll know so much more relative to Fields by the end of this season. Then it's time to decide what to do in 2024 when he will be eligible for an extension or the exercise of his 5th year option. We'll also know where the 1st from Carolina slots in the draft order.

As it stands now Harrison is predicted to go within the first three picks. By draft weekend that could change but probably not all that dramatically. I imagine we may have a shot at him or a top OL or DL. Or as you point out we may be able to convert a top pick into another bevy of draft picks which will add more to a rebuild than any one player save maybe a franchise QB should Fields fail to ignite the team this coming season. We don't know that now but by December we will and so will Poles and the coaches.

So far Poles has shown an uncommonly good grasp of building his roster from both FA and the draft. I trust him and his agenda. So I'm still open to any and all possibilities.
If we end up picking in the top 5 I'd like to see us get Harrison or Verse.
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I have to wonder with investment Poles has already put into WR whether or not Harrison would interest him vs potentially trading a top five pick for more draft capital. There also seems to be four or five top edge guys in the 2024 draft. Provided he can still get a player whose an ideal fit like Wright appears to be I'd have no problem with him strategically trading down again to add more picks.

So far his drafting has been pretty good. We got four starters out of the 2022 draft (including Gill) without having a 1st round pick and another four who look to be primary backups this year in Hicks, Robinson, Carter, and Jones provided he can learn to judge a football in flight. I think they should send him over to Wrigley Field and ask the Cubs to let him shag fly balls in batting practice.

This years draft looks even better.
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RichH55 wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 5:30 pm
Arkansasbear wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 3:05 pm

I simply don't understand the discussion you're trying to have on this. So I'll explain what I was saying better.

When we made the trade I was us getting a WR that should arguably be considered a top 10 WR in the NFL. We also got 2 excellent picks in the 2 first round picks and a very good pick in the 2nd round pick. At the time I didn't think the trade would be a "franchise changer" like the Walker pick was. So I gave it a 9.

Everything I've seen, heard or read about Moore and what he is doing is making me think he may EXCEED what I though he could do for this team. Excellent draft picks are all about the potential they can bring to the team. This team has time and time again blown it with such picks. When I see what Poles did with Brisker, Gordon and Jones and the UDFA he brought in last year, and couple that with what we've seen (albeit is small sample size) from this year's crop: I have more faith me might actually be really good at this whole GM thing. That's giving me more hope that Wright will be a great player and those remaining picks turn into great players.

IF all that happens, then like Robin said "Holy Astringent Plum-Like Fruit!"

I don't think it's getting ahead of myself and declaring it a fact when I say "Depending on how the other picks go." That's the whole point of the word "Depending." Could go that way (and there is some tangible evidence to suggest it could) or if could go in a different direction.

Hope that helps.
All fair Ark

I think its just too early - I've read enough Puff Offseason pieces in my time to want to see it on the Field (pardon the word choice!!!!) - And I was typing in my Ahmed Merritt jersey too - Just a rough combo for making assuming on the Preseason

Also - I really think people should look at that Walker trade - it's a really high barrier
My position is a lot like yours. There's a lot of talk about how we're going to be so much better this year, but talk is cheap. And honestly, after one preseason game, the starting units--particularly on defense--weren't inspiring to me. Of course, several guys were out too, so that's a factor.

I'm tickled that you brought up Ahmad Merritt. I went to Olivet for TC for however long they were there and the best picture I ever took was Ahmad Merritt in the air making a catch. :-)
Mikefive's theory: The only time you KNOW that a sports team player, coach or management member is being 100% honest is when they're NOT reciting "the company line".

Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
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Bearfacts wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 3:39 pm I have to wonder with investment Poles has already put into WR whether or not Harrison would interest him vs potentially trading a top five pick for more draft capital. There also seems to be four or five top edge guys in the 2024 draft. Provided he can still get a player whose an ideal fit like Wright appears to be I'd have no problem with him strategically trading down again to add more picks.

So far his drafting has been pretty good. We got four starters out of the 2022 draft (including Gill) without having a 1st round pick and another four who look to be primary backups this year in Hicks, Robinson, Carter, and Jones provided he can learn to judge a football in flight. I think they should send him over to Wrigley Field and ask the Cubs to let him shag fly balls in batting practice.

This years draft looks even better.
If Mooney and Claypool play great and get extended, I think Harrison is off the table. I just do see them bringing both back after the season is over.
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Arkansasbear wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 4:11 pm
Bearfacts wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 3:39 pm I have to wonder with investment Poles has already put into WR whether or not Harrison would interest him vs potentially trading a top five pick for more draft capital. There also seems to be four or five top edge guys in the 2024 draft. Provided he can still get a player whose an ideal fit like Wright appears to be I'd have no problem with him strategically trading down again to add more picks.

So far his drafting has been pretty good. We got four starters out of the 2022 draft (including Gill) without having a 1st round pick and another four who look to be primary backups this year in Hicks, Robinson, Carter, and Jones provided he can learn to judge a football in flight. I think they should send him over to Wrigley Field and ask the Cubs to let him shag fly balls in batting practice.

This years draft looks even better.
If Mooney and Claypool play great and get extended, I think Harrison is off the table. I just do see them bringing both back after the season is over.
If Mooney and Claypool play great - and you are still in a position to draft Harrison - It's a long debate

I'd note in that scenario a tag and trade (Probably on Claypool) would be feasible
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RichH55 wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 6:40 pm
Arkansasbear wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 4:11 pm
If Mooney and Claypool play great and get extended, I think Harrison is off the table. I just do see them bringing both back after the season is over.
If Mooney and Claypool play great - and you are still in a position to draft Harrison - It's a long debate

I'd note in that scenario a tag and trade (Probably on Claypool) would be feasible
If you have your QB of the future, and the Panthers hand us a top 3 pick, you have to trade down and extend the draft capital haul into 2025. No player, even Harrison, is worth a top 3 pick to the Bears right now.
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Bears Whiskey Nut wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 6:46 pm
RichH55 wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 6:40 pm

If Mooney and Claypool play great - and you are still in a position to draft Harrison - It's a long debate

I'd note in that scenario a tag and trade (Probably on Claypool) would be feasible
If you have your QB of the future, and the Panthers hand us a top 3 pick, you have to trade down and extend the draft capital haul into 2025. No player, even Harrison, is worth a top 3 pick to the Bears right now.
Can't fully agree here - especially if there happens to be an elite DE - Which there very well could be

This team is really deep already - and aside from some guys needing new deals - gonna still have a lot of Cap Room - and things like #1 WR under market and both OTs on Rookie Deals

And we kind of have the equivalent of trading down already down with an extra 1st AND 4th

That said - you could probably still talk me into a trade down
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