Grade The Trade....Down

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Moderator: wab

Grade The Trade Down

10: OMG this is amazing. Herschel Walker Trade 2.0
3
6%
9
15
31%
8
23
48%
7
3
6%
6
2
4%
5: Meh. I'd grade it a lot higher if we got Gardner Minshew as part of the deal.
2
4%
4
0
No votes
3
0
No votes
2
0
No votes
1: This is Rick Mirer all over again. Fire Ryan Poles.
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 48
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Yogi da Bear
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wab wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 3:12 pm
Arkansasbear wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 3:05 pm

I simply don't understand the discussion you're trying to have on this. So I'll explain what I was saying better.

When we made the trade I was us getting a WR that should arguably be considered a top 10 WR in the NFL. We also got 2 excellent picks in the 2 first round picks and a very good pick in the 2nd round pick. At the time I didn't think the trade would be a "franchise changer" like the Walker pick was. So I gave it a 9.

Everything I've seen, heard or read about Moore and what he is doing is making me think he may EXCEED what I though he could do for this team. Excellent draft picks are all about the potential they can bring to the team. This team has time and time again blown it with such picks. When I see what Poles did with Brisker, Gordon and Jones and the UDFA he brought in last year, and couple that with what we've seen (albeit is small sample size) from this year's crop: I have more faith me might actually be really good at this whole GM thing. That's giving me more hope that Wright will be a great player and those remaining picks turn into great players.

IF all that happens, then like Robin said "Holy Astringent Plum-Like Fruit!"

I don't think it's getting ahead of myself and declaring it a fact when I say "Depending on how the other picks go." That's the whole point of the word "Depending." Could go that way (and there is some tangible evidence to suggest it could) or if could go in a different direction.

Hope that helps.
If you haven't noticed yet, Rich does not care for hyperbole, exaggeration, embellishment, puffery, or dare I say...purple prose. Nor does he care for overstatements like "Will be" instead of "could be".

While I agree that words matter, he cuts them no slack. Oftentimes to his detriment.
Unless Rich is the one hyperbolizing. lol Then it's all good. :welcome:
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Arkansasbear wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 4:11 pm
Bearfacts wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 3:39 pm I have to wonder with investment Poles has already put into WR whether or not Harrison would interest him vs potentially trading a top five pick for more draft capital. There also seems to be four or five top edge guys in the 2024 draft. Provided he can still get a player whose an ideal fit like Wright appears to be I'd have no problem with him strategically trading down again to add more picks.

So far his drafting has been pretty good. We got four starters out of the 2022 draft (including Gill) without having a 1st round pick and another four who look to be primary backups this year in Hicks, Robinson, Carter, and Jones provided he can learn to judge a football in flight. I think they should send him over to Wrigley Field and ask the Cubs to let him shag fly balls in batting practice.

This years draft looks even better.
If Mooney and Claypool play great and get extended, I think Harrison is off the table. I just do see them bringing both back after the season is over.
Yup, and a couple more contract questions yet to be answered. The temptation to draft Harrison if at all possible would seem to be based on cost as much as production. I can picture Scott and Harrison on their rookie deals replacing Mooney and Claypool whose cost will most like be in the $12-$15 mil AAV range. Then there's also the possibility of supplemental picks from them signing big money deals elsewhere. There's still a lot of moving parts to resolving what to do at WR longer term.
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Re: Harrison. Poles has set himself up nicely here. He can wait and see how both Mooney and Claypool perform, and at the same time wait and see where our two first round picks end up and if we are in range of being able to draft him.

Then the decision is “pay Pool and/or Mooney” or draft Harrison. This should be an easy call - you take Harrison on a cheaper deal and use your cap $$ elsewhere. And maybe even net a comp pick when you let one or both WRs go
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wab
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dplank wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2023 7:31 am Re: Harrison. Poles has set himself up nicely here. He can wait and see how both Mooney and Claypool perform, and at the same time wait and see where our two first round picks end up and if we are in range of being able to draft him.

Then the decision is “pay Pool and/or Mooney” or draft Harrison. This should be an easy call - you take Harrison on a cheaper deal and use your cap $$ elsewhere. And maybe even net a comp pick when you let one or both WRs go
I agree with this in principal. The problem is that you almost have to decide to pay Mooney/Claypool before you really know if you have a shot at Harrison. If you lose out on Mooney/Claypool then you are almost forced to do whatever it takes to land Harrison.

And if Mooney/Claypool perform well enough to deserve extensions, do you really need Harrison?

It'll be an interesting situation for sure.
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wab wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:02 am
dplank wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2023 7:31 am Re: Harrison. Poles has set himself up nicely here. He can wait and see how both Mooney and Claypool perform, and at the same time wait and see where our two first round picks end up and if we are in range of being able to draft him.

Then the decision is “pay Pool and/or Mooney” or draft Harrison. This should be an easy call - you take Harrison on a cheaper deal and use your cap $$ elsewhere. And maybe even net a comp pick when you let one or both WRs go
I agree with this in principal. The problem is that you almost have to decide to pay Mooney/Claypool before you really know if you have a shot at Harrison. If you lose out on Mooney/Claypool then you are almost forced to do whatever it takes to land Harrison.

And if Mooney/Claypool perform well enough to deserve extensions, do you really need Harrison?

It'll be an interesting situation for sure.
I think you'd have a pretty good idea if you'd be able to get Harrison IMHO. Free Agency is before the draft yes - but its not like they jumble the pick order the day before the draft (*)

Assuming current trajectory - if you aren't in the Top 3 (maybe 4 if an absolute Stud DE or 3rd QB emerges?) - you aren't really in the Harrison discussion IMHO

(*) Assumes that you are not extending in season - which of course is a possibility

On Comp Pick - I think that would come down to the decision on JJ more than keeping one of the WR - Unless you are letting BOTH Mooney and Claypool walk

Though crazier things have happened - and maybe Billings, Tonyan, Justin Jones, Ngakoue, Foreman, and heck throw in Lucas Patrick all get deals that qualify for the Comp Formula
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Poles could franchise tag the WR who wins the battle AND draft Harrison. He would be both the short term replacement for Mooney/Claypool, the long term replacement for Moore and Fields robin for the next 10 years.

If Poles does manage to land Harrison, I may just build that man a statue.
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HurricaneBear wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:48 am Poles could franchise tag the WR who wins the battle AND draft Harrison. He would be both the short term replacement for Mooney/Claypool, the long term replacement for Moore and Fields robin for the next 10 years.

If Poles does manage to land Harrison, I may just build that man a statue.
Unless he is able to do it with OUR first pick.
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I will tell you this

Nothing gets you more jazzed for the next NFL Draft than Bruce Feldman's Freaks List - year in, year out
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Bryce Young-led Panthers offense gets just three points as offensive line struggles mount

Bryce Young and the Carolina Panthers' onus in their second preseason game was a rather simple one: score.

While Young and the Panthers got their first preseason points, the largest takeaway from the No. 1 overall pick's second preseason tilt was once again the leaky and troublesome play of the offensive line.

Young was hit and harassed often in his two drives, leading Carolina to just three points in the process during a 21-19 loss to the host New York Giants on Friday night.
...

In a 27-0 loss to the New York Jets in Week 1 of the preseason, Young's three drives equated to no points as he was sacked once, hit plenty and under pressure on 28.6% of his dropbacks, per Next Gen Stats. It seemed as though he was under duress far more, but he certainly was on Friday against the Giants.

Young was pressured 42.9% of the time and sacked again as the future of the franchise finished his night having completed 3 of 6 passes for 35 yards.
...

Week 1 of the preseason wasn't an anomaly it turns out, the Panthers have issues aplenty up front.

Full article: https://www.nfl.com/news/bryce-young-le ... ine-strugg
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HurricaneBear
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That team is a bad Panthers team.

Bad to average at best coach, a rookie QB, a bad oline with shitty playmakers.

I feel like we've seen that type of team here before. Preseason only the beginning.

Has a Super Bowl winner ever had the first pick the following year before?
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The Marshall Plan
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This trade down Poles did has me obsessed.

Found this recently updated 2024 NFL Mock Draft.

With the pick from Carolina (#5 overall) this has us taking Jared Verse, DE, Florida State.



Then with our own pick, #12 overall (I think this is too high up. Our division is not strong, neither is the NFC, and we have a favorable schedule.) we are taking Malik Nabers, WR, LSU.



I think the pick from Carolina isn't high enough and then ours is too high. Given that mock drafts won't have a lot of thought put into them this early I consider it a decent attempt.

It's realistic to say we'd draft a DE and WR because those are both potential needs. However, since Drake Maye went #6 here I think we could get a bidder or two on a trade down for the #5. I'd take that deal, but go no lower than 10 and then keep our own pick. Take me from 5 to 10 and give me a second in 2024 or, even better, a first in 2025 if we could get somebody to bite on that thinking push the pick out a year but take a higher round as compensation.

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/2024 ... ell-mccoy/
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TMP are you feeling light-headed from too much self-pleasuring while watching your man-crush against the Bears yesterday? :D

Speculating about next year's draft this early? The season is still 3 weeks away! We don't even know who's going to make the current roster yet!
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The Marshall Plan
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HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2023 11:50 am TMP are you feeling light-headed from too much self-pleasuring while watching your man-crush against the Bears yesterday? :D

Speculating about next year's draft this early? The season is still 3 weeks away! We don't even know who's going to make the current roster yet!
Did you see Minshew kick some ass yesterday? The guy is a beast.

I'm going to periodically post in here as we progress through the season and into the offseason to create a kind of a log on what the mock drafts looked like and how we end up. It'll also be interesting to see how our needs change over time. Like as of right now, with the talent being equal, I'd use both firsts on the DL with DE and DT. But who knows?

This trade down by Poles can be franchise altering and I'd like to capture it as it happens.
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2023 11:58 am
HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2023 11:50 am TMP are you feeling light-headed from too much self-pleasuring while watching your man-crush against the Bears yesterday? :D

Speculating about next year's draft this early? The season is still 3 weeks away! We don't even know who's going to make the current roster yet!
Did you see Minshew kick some ass yesterday? The guy is a beast.

I'm going to periodically post in here as we progress through the season and into the offseason to create a kind of a log on what the mock drafts looked like and how we end up. It'll also be interesting to see how our needs change over time. Like as of right now, with the talent being equal, I'd use both firsts on the DL with DE and DT. But who knows?

This trade down by Poles can be franchise altering and I'd like to capture it as it happens.
I think thats a great idea to keep a log to capture it as it happens!

Just keep in mind, the Bears will have the 1st and 32nd picks in the draft :D
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HurricaneBear wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2023 1:24 pm I think thats a great idea to keep a log to capture it as it happens!
What TMP self-pleasuring?! :?

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Teams and QBs the year after being #1:

2010: Sam Bradford, Rams, 7-9, 14th pick
2011: Cam Newton, Carolina, 6-10, 9th pick
2012: Andrew Luck, Colts, 11-5, 24th pick
2015: Jameis Winston, Bucs, 6-10, 9th pick before trading it
2016: Jared Goff, Lions, traded with Titans giving them #5 pick
2018: Baker Mayfield, Browns, pick #17 before using it in OBJ trade
2019: Kyler Murray, Cards, 5-10-1, 8th pick
2020: Joe Burrow, Bengals, 4-11-1, 5th pick
2021: Trevor Lawrence, Jags, 3-14, 1st pick

Here's hoping for a repeat of 2021.
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Grizzled wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2023 12:56 pm Teams and QBs the year after being #1:

2010: Sam Bradford, Rams, 7-9, 14th pick
2011: Cam Newton, Carolina, 6-10, 9th pick
2012: Andrew Luck, Colts, 11-5, 24th pick
2015: Jameis Winston, Bucs, 6-10, 9th pick before trading it
2016: Jared Goff, Lions, traded with Titans giving them #5 pick
2018: Baker Mayfield, Browns, pick #17 before using it in OBJ trade
2019: Kyler Murray, Cards, 5-10-1, 8th pick
2020: Joe Burrow, Bengals, 4-11-1, 5th pick
2021: Trevor Lawrence, Jags, 3-14, 1st pick

Here's hoping for a repeat of 2021.
Grizzled I'm not quite understanding that list could you help me out. I'm certain you're not wanting the Bears to go 3-14 and have the number 1 pick.
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The Grizzly One wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2023 2:30 pm
Grizzled wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2023 12:56 pm Teams and QBs the year after being #1:

2010: Sam Bradford, Rams, 7-9, 14th pick
2011: Cam Newton, Carolina, 6-10, 9th pick
2012: Andrew Luck, Colts, 11-5, 24th pick
2015: Jameis Winston, Bucs, 6-10, 9th pick before trading it
2016: Jared Goff, Lions, traded with Titans giving them #5 pick
2018: Baker Mayfield, Browns, pick #17 before using it in OBJ trade
2019: Kyler Murray, Cards, 5-10-1, 8th pick
2020: Joe Burrow, Bengals, 4-11-1, 5th pick
2021: Trevor Lawrence, Jags, 3-14, 1st pick

Here's hoping for a repeat of 2021.
Grizzled I'm not quite understanding that list could you help me out. I'm certain you're not wanting the Bears to go 3-14 and have the number 1 pick.
He means Carolina's pick since they took a QB #1
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I gave it a 6 for now, as I'm worried as hell Jalen Carter is going to destroy worlds in Philly while Wright struggles with injuries.
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RichH55 wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2023 3:01 pm
The Grizzly One wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2023 2:30 pm
Grizzled I'm not quite understanding that list could you help me out. I'm certain you're not wanting the Bears to go 3-14 and have the number 1 pick.
He means Carolina's pick since they took a QB #1
It would have bit me if it was a snake. Thanks
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UOK wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2023 3:03 pm I gave it a 6 for now, as I'm worried as hell Jalen Carter is going to destroy worlds in Philly while Wright struggles with injuries.
It will only make Fields MVP season and Super Bowl win that much more heroic.
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HurricaneBear wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2023 3:25 pm
UOK wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2023 3:03 pm I gave it a 6 for now, as I'm worried as hell Jalen Carter is going to destroy worlds in Philly while Wright struggles with injuries.
It will only make Fields MVP season and Super Bowl win that much more heroic.

I think you mistyped Bagent there
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UOK wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2023 3:03 pm I gave it a 6 for now, as I'm worried as hell Jalen Carter is going to destroy worlds in Philly while Wright struggles with injuries.
Yeah, it's early days yet, but not a single thing has changed my mind about that move. Carter was the best player in the draft. Wright is either a rich man's or a poor man's Dawand Jones or Wanya Morris, and the fact that we can't really tell just yet is a problem.
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RichH55 wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2023 6:59 pm
HurricaneBear wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2023 3:25 pm

It will only make Fields MVP season and Super Bowl win that much more heroic.

I think you mistyped Bagent there
Hmmmm, I don't believe anyone said anything remotely close to that.

Now tell me again how you feel about posters (except in the Bears game prediction threads) that spread misinformation and hyperbole?

I'll hang up and listen for my answer. :evilgrin:
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The Grizzly One wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2023 10:18 pm
RichH55 wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2023 6:59 pm


I think you mistyped Bagent there
Hmmmm, I don't believe anyone said anything remotely close to that.

Now tell me again how you feel about posters (except in the Bears game prediction threads) that spread misinformation and hyperbole?

I'll hang up and listen for my answer. :evilgrin:
A-Hem!
Yogi da Bear wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 9:18 pm
wab wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 3:12 pm

If you haven't noticed yet, Rich does not care for hyperbole, exaggeration, embellishment, puffery, or dare I say...purple prose. Nor does he care for overstatements like "Will be" instead of "could be".

While I agree that words matter, he cuts them no slack. Oftentimes to his detriment.
Unless Rich is the one hyperbolizing. lol Then it's all good. :welcome:
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The Grizzly One wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2023 10:18 pm
RichH55 wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2023 6:59 pm


I think you mistyped Bagent there
Hmmmm, I don't believe anyone said anything remotely close to that.

Now tell me again how you feel about posters (except in the Bears game prediction threads) that spread misinformation and hyperbole?

I'll hang up and listen for my answer. :evilgrin:
Answer: It depends on the source of the comment, because it’s entirely personal.
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It was a joke? Settle down killers

It wasn't hyperbole or anything like that. Calm down. Just a simple joke.
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UOK wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2023 3:03 pm I gave it a 6 for now, as I'm worried as hell Jalen Carter is going to destroy worlds in Philly while Wright struggles with injuries.
I don't have that concern at all. The injury he has right now appears to be a simple rolled ankle - not in a boot walking around, shouldn't be anything. Those things happen all the time.

I think Carter won't get his 5th year option picked up. Very happy with the trade to 10 to get an extra 4th and draft the guy they wanted (I was a bigger fan of Jones from Alabama and still not sure how it shakes out long term).
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Sports Mockery is citing an ESPN analysis indicating that the Panthers will score the third lowest points this season at 323. Washington and Tampa Bay were lower.

This leads to a comparison against teams with similar performances saying somewhere between 3 and 6 wins.

Looking at the 2023 draft this puts Carolina's pick between 1 and 7.

Split hairs and say the pick is forecasted to be #4 overall. Caleb Williams will be gone, but we'll be in prime position to get the best or second best defensive prospect or some team will call to trade down to take a different QB. Williams and MHJ should be picks before us.

If I ever run into Ryan Poles in public I'm going to hug him if that's how it turns out.

https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-b ... the-bears/
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