Montgomery headed to Detroit

[wab]

I disagree.

Poles disagrees with your disagreement.

[Yogi da Bear]

Does anybody else cringe at the thought of Eddie Jackson having to tackle Monty?

[HurricaneBear]

Not at all. With Monty's speed it will only be 3 yards past the line of scrimmage.

[Yogi da Bear]

Not with our DL as it stands right now.

[The Cooler King]

It’s weird to see the Bears operating like the Chiefs or Patriots or Steelers and letting guys go when they should be letting em go, and not bringing in guys just for the sake of bringing in guys.

It does suck as a fan in some cases. And this is definitely one of them.

Honestly I think this is selectively applying a bias to what you want to be true.

Patriots had GOAT and Chiefs have GOAT in training who cover up a lot of the mistakes, but it's easier to pretend they're just built different as orgs. Reality is they do plenty of the things that are supposedly bad, but we ignore those even if they work and focus on the "right way" techniques that work.

As for the Steelers. I'm not gonna say they're a bad org. Results speak for themselves. But I think they're highly overrated. Ultimately a lot of the way they operate is less intentional based on some mission-driven approach, but IMO they're just kind of a cheap family run org because they're pretty poor by NFL standards. Maybe that grit and 'do more with less' attitude helps them in the long run, but that's the secret sauce (that apparently never helped the Bears for years on end when they acted like a "poor" fam business and also made cheap decisions)

[HurricaneBear]

You know what's sadder than the current state of the Bears Dline? Bears fans insulting players still under contract with the Bears to defend current Lion Molasses Montgomery.

[IE]

Does anybody else cringe at the thought of Eddie Jackson having to tackle Monty?

Do you know how far Monty has usually traveled on average before he encounters a potential tackle? And then afterwards how far more after breaking a tackle, on average, he travels?

Because both of those segments combined total less than 4 yards. YES - he breaks tackles. And YES - he still doesn't get all the way to 4 yards, on average, even with the "broken tackles".

[wab]

It’s weird to see the Bears operating like the Chiefs or Patriots or Steelers and letting guys go when they should be letting em go, and not bringing in guys just for the sake of bringing in guys.

It does suck as a fan in some cases. And this is definitely one of them.

Honestly I think this is selectively applying a bias to what you want to be true.

Patriots had GOAT and Chiefs have GOAT in training who cover up a lot of the mistakes, but it's easier to pretend they're just built different as orgs. Reality is they do plenty of the things that are supposedly bad, but we ignore those even if they work and focus on the "right way" techniques that work.

As for the Steelers. I'm not gonna say they're a bad org. Results speak for themselves. But I think they're highly overrated. Ultimately a lot of the way they operate is less intentional based on some mission-driven approach, but IMO they're just kind of a cheap family run org because they're pretty poor by NFL standards. Maybe that grit and 'do more with less' attitude helps them in the long run, but that's the secret sauce (that apparently never helped the Bears for years on end when they acted like a "poor" fam business and also made cheap decisions)

I mean ok, pick whatever teams you like then that operate like a modern NFL franchise.

Bears fans suffer from the Marty Booker Effect. We fall in love with an average player and then when he’s let go or traded, it’s the worst thing in the world. Successful teams happily let multiple Marty Booker-types go every offseason.

[The Cooler King]

It's not that those aren't good orgs, I just think your looking at result and applying a process that you want to be true to explain it, when it's much more of a mixed bag approach for everyone. Plenty of patiently built "right way" teams fail too. Theres no one simple trick.

And the Bears have more or less been a modern NFL franchise for a while. We're seeing much more of a tinkering than a dramatic transformation of the org.

[Yogi da Bear]

Does anybody else cringe at the thought of Eddie Jackson having to tackle Monty?

Do you know how far Monty has usually traveled on average before he encounters a potential tackle? And then afterwards how far more after breaking a tackle, on average, he travels?

Because both of those segments combined total less than 4 yards. YES - he breaks tackles. And YES - he still doesn't get all the way to 4 yards, on average, even with the "broken tackles".

And that's supposed to be critical of Monty? I look at it much more as an indictment of our blocking: The OL wasn't getting it done and Monty was getting hit as soon as he got the ball, then after breaking those tackles, the WRs and TEs weren't getting it done down the field either so he'd get hit by those guys too.

[IE]

Do you know how far Monty has usually traveled on average before he encounters a potential tackle? And then afterwards how far more after breaking a tackle, on average, he travels?

Because both of those segments combined total less than 4 yards. YES - he breaks tackles. And YES - he still doesn't get all the way to 4 yards, on average, even with the "broken tackles".

And that's supposed to be critical of Monty? I look at it much more as an indictment of our blocking: The OL wasn't getting it done and Monty was getting hit as soon as he got the ball, then after breaking those tackles, the WRs and TEs weren't getting it done down the field either so he'd get hit by those guys too.

So explain Juice's 5.7 ypc.

[The Cooler King]

There's some combo of RB-OL, but everything we know tells us Monty isn't gonna get as far under any equivalent line play as a faster back. Put 'em behind the Eagles line and it's the same question, just pushing the yard mark up a bit higher.

But if you need 2 and want to max that out at expense of big play potential , he's a much better option than many.

[Z Bear]

I am kind of amazed people were not willing to pay Monty $6M a year but are willing to draft Bijon Robinson at 9. For reference...the #9 pick last tear was Charles Cross and he signed 4 year, $21,383,626 contract w, including a $12,731,728 signing bonus. $5M a year on an unrpoven RB makes no sense in the NFL right now.

[IE]

I am kind of amazed people were not willing to pay Monty $6M a year but are willing to draft Bijon Robinson at 9. For reference...the #9 pick last tear was Charles Cross and he signed 4 year, $21,383,626 contract w, including a $12,731,728 signing bonus. $5M a year on an unrpoven RB makes no sense in the NFL right now.

Agreed that's high but Monty and Bijan are apples & oranges.

[The Cooler King]

I am kind of amazed people were not willing to pay Monty $6M a year but are willing to draft Bijon Robinson at 9. For reference...the #9 pick last tear was Charles Cross and he signed 4 year, $21,383,626 contract w, including a $12,731,728 signing bonus. $5M a year on an unrpoven RB makes no sense in the NFL right now.

Saw a funny quote that if Bijan marketed himself as a slot WR who could also run he'd get drafted higher. The upside play is clearer on Bijan v Montgomery. But there's absolutely a opportunity cost outside of just the contract value to burning #9 on Bijan.

So yes I'd take Monty at 3/18, but I don't necessarily view him and Bijan as equivalent options either. Of course always downside risk for rookie, but same can be said of 2nd contract RB. Upside nowhere near same though.

[The Marshall Plan]

Monty isn’t worth all the angst and hand wringing that’s going on.

Last year he had one 100 yard game.

1.

Week 2 against Green Bay.

Then guess what?

His second highest rushing game of the year was 79 against the Jets.

He’s a good guy. He grinds. He doesn’t fuck up. But he’s average at best. He’s not going to propel this offense forward.

In light of the disaster of FA, IDK if we can draft Bijan without another trade down, but we should be fine drafting someone in the 2nd or 3rd rounds.

[HurricaneBear]

I am kind of amazed people were not willing to pay Monty $6M a year but are willing to draft Bijon Robinson at 9. For reference...the #9 pick last tear was Charles Cross and he signed 4 year, $21,383,626 contract w, including a $12,731,728 signing bonus. $5M a year on an unrpoven RB makes no sense in the NFL right now.

Maybe it's not all the same people? I'm one of the most vocal about not paying Montgomery and I will probably destroy my computer in a rage if they pick a running back in the first round.

[Yogi da Bear]

And that's supposed to be critical of Monty? I look at it much more as an indictment of our blocking: The OL wasn't getting it done and Monty was getting hit as soon as he got the ball, then after breaking those tackles, the WRs and TEs weren't getting it done down the field either so he'd get hit by those guys too.

So explain Juice's 5.7 ypc.

Monty ran far more extensively in tough running situations:

With 1-3 yards to go, Monty has run 165 times for 3.5 Y/A. Herbert has only run 26 times for 3.0 Y/A. Explain that.
Inside the opponent's 10, Monty has run 86 times for 1.5 Y/a. Herbert has only run 13 times for .5 Y/A. Half a yard an attempt! Explain that!

While you're at it, explain Monty's 8 yards a reception to Herbert's 6.65.

Yes, with Herbert's speed, he's more likely to break a long one. But Monty is much more likely to pick up the tough critical yards.

[IE]

So explain Juice's 5.7 ypc.

Monty ran far more extensively in tough running situations:

With 1-3 yards to go, Monty has run 165 times for 3.5 Y/A. Herbert has only run 26 times for 3.0 Y/A. Explain that.
Inside the opponent's 10, Monty has run 86 times for 1.5 Y/a. Herbert has only run 13 times for .5 Y/A. Half a yard an attempt! Explain that!

While you're at it, explain Monty's 8 yards a reception to Herbert's 6.65.

Yes, with Herbert's speed, he's more likely to break a long one. But Monty is much more likely to pick up the tough critical yards.

I figured you'd go there. Splits can help clear a picture on situational football but attempts can really skew the data.

Maybe when you average 7 yards on first down and 4 on second... you don't get as many chances to even try attempts in the 1-3 range very much? Juice only had 13 attempts for 1-3 yards all season. Better than being best at them is being better at avoiding them. Teams don't WANT to get to 3rd and short.

Honestly it makes no sense to argue about this with someone who is going to find the one thing to hang their hat on & totally dismiss stats such as 5.7 yards per carry and pretend that first and second down don't matter. Is Monty maybe a little bit better on super-short yardage? Maybe. Does it matter? No - where are all his effing TDs then? Hardly anyone else on the Bears has even HAD short yardage runs since Monty came in, yet Monty averages only 6 ish TDs per season. So he's a little better at something that yields not much.

[Yogi da Bear]

It's because of stances like this that I hope Monty absolutely tears us up next year. It's time that people realize what he could do with actual blocking.

...So, I guess we will see.

In the meantime, I'm scouring RBs in the draft right now. There are quite a few interesting prospects there. But just don't expect any protection for Fields from any of them.

[HurricaneBear]

I dream of a day where the Bears offensive line is good enough that I never ever have to hear someone talk about running backs blocking again.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

I figured you'd go there. Splits can help clear a picture on situational football but attempts can really skew the data.

Maybe when you average 7 yards on first down and 4 on second... you don't get as many chances to even try attempts in the 1-3 range very much? Juice only had 13 attempts for 1-3 yards all season. Better than being best at them is being better at avoiding them. Teams don't WANT to get to 3rd and short.

Honestly it makes no sense to argue about this with someone who is going to find the one thing to hang their hat on & totally dismiss stats such as 5.7 yards per carry and pretend that first and second down don't matter.

You can't dismiss one set of statistics that show Monty had more work and more success in short yardage situations and then keep harping on about Herbert's 5.7 ypc. A big chunk of that figure, a full yard, is down to two long runs. They really skew the data. One of those came against an 8 man front when the O-line blocked it up perfectly and Herbert hit the open field untouched until the end of the run. He had it easy on that one and made the most of it. Being faster than Monty he probably gained a few extra yards, but any RB would have broken off a big play there.

I like Herbert. I liked Monty and Herbert together better. One's gone and the other is still here and I'll be cheering him on.

When you see what other players who contribute a lot less than Monty have signed for around the league it really highlights how undervalued RBs are. Everything will be fine and dandy if Poles finds a cheaper player in free agency or the draft who is at least as good as Monty. If we wind up with another Marion Barber or Jeremy Langford none of us will be happy.

[IE]

I figured you'd go there. Splits can help clear a picture on situational football but attempts can really skew the data.

Maybe when you average 7 yards on first down and 4 on second... you don't get as many chances to even try attempts in the 1-3 range very much? Juice only had 13 attempts for 1-3 yards all season. Better than being best at them is being better at avoiding them. Teams don't WANT to get to 3rd and short.

Honestly it makes no sense to argue about this with someone who is going to find the one thing to hang their hat on & totally dismiss stats such as 5.7 yards per carry and pretend that first and second down don't matter.

You can't dismiss one set of statistics that show Monty had more work and more success in short yardage situations and then keep harping on about Herbert's 5.7 ypc. A big chunk of that figure, a full yard, is down to two long runs. They really skew the data. One of those came against an 8 man front when the O-line blocked it up perfectly and Herbert hit the open field untouched until the end of the run. He had it easy on that one and made the most of it. Being faster than Monty he probably gained a few extra yards, but any RB would have broken off a big play there.

I like Herbert. I liked Monty and Herbert together better. One's gone and the other is still here and I'll be cheering him on.

When you see what other players who contribute a lot less than Monty have signed for around the league it really highlights how undervalued RBs are. Everything will be fine and dandy if Poles finds a cheaper player in free agency or the draft who is at least as good as Monty. If we wind up with another Marion Barber or Jeremy Langford none of us will be happy.

I'm sorry - did Monty not have an opportunity to break long runs? So now I'm wrong for not holding Juice's explosive plays against him?

[IE]

It's because of stances like this that I hope Monty absolutely tears us up next year. It's time that people realize what he could do with actual blocking.

...So, I guess we will see.

That's simply nuts.

In the meantime, I'm scouring RBs in the draft right now. There are quite a few interesting prospects there. But just don't expect any protection for Fields from any of them.

If you're rooting against the Bears, why bother scouting for them? Looking for bad players?

By the way, Juice's pass pro ratings aren't meaningfully lower than Monty's. You're probably thinking about that whiffed cut block on the punt that resulted in a block/TD against the Dolphin. And what I can't get out of my head is Monty's fumble in the next game that also led to a TD. Damn these guys - making mistakes & shit.

[bearsfaninaz]

Loved Monty while here, but honestly we can draft his replacement. Even the bigger backs were faster at combine this year.

[Burl]

I don’t know the numbers but I felt more dejected when Jordan Howard left, in comparison. Ultimately, he was pretty easy to replace. RBs come and go.

[Yogi da Bear]

If you're rooting against the Bears, why bother scouting for them? Looking for bad players?

By the way, Juice's pass pro ratings aren't meaningfully lower than Monty's. You're probably thinking about that whiffed cut block on the punt that resulted in a block/TD against the Dolphin. And what I can't get out of my head is Monty's fumble in the next game that also led to a TD. Damn these guys - making mistakes & shit.

You misunderstood what I said. I'm not rooting against the Bears. Never do that. I'm rooting FOR Monty. I do want him to scorch us to show you numbskulls what we had. But I'm still rooting for the Bears to prevail behind Fields. In the meantime, I'm scouring the draft prospects to see who we can bring in.

[wulfy]

I’m IN for Zach Charbonnet in the late 2nd Round. Really nice compliment to Herbert.

[Yogi da Bear]

I’m IN for Zach Charbonnet in the late 2nd Round. Really nice compliment to Herbert.

Nice. Myself, I like Tyjae Spear. A bit smaller at 5'10", 201, but not by much. And he has 4.4 speed and is a great receiver. Can maybe get him in the fourth:

[Hema2.0]

.

I worry less about the actual performance than I do the message it sends to the locker room.

Agree, now feel that if Poles hopes to build trust in this locker room he pretty much has to pay at least 2 of the 3 key young guys looking for extensions this of season (Kmet, Mooney, Johnson.)

Winning games takes care of all this b.s. being thrown out about culture, trust or whatever. Its really that simple.