9th Pick

For all things Chicago Bears

Moderator: wab

Post Reply
User avatar
dplank
Hall of Famer
Posts: 12025
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:19 am
Has thanked: 1201 times
Been thanked: 2138 times

thunderspirit wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 12:00 pm
IE wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 11:22 am

Spoon is CB1 no matter your personal opinion. I'd be pissed if Poles passed up on a FAR FAR better football player for measurables only.
Except that is your personal opinion, isn't it?

Funny how that works.
Image
User avatar
Moriarty
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6806
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:22 pm
Has thanked: 384 times
Been thanked: 688 times

IE wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 11:22 am
karhu wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 1:38 pm
- Gonzalez seems clearly ahead of Witherspoon at CB, so he might be a target.
Spoon is CB1 no matter your personal opinion. I'd be pissed if Poles passed up on a FAR FAR better football player for measurables only.
It's certainly debatable, but, in a quick survey (all postcombine):

Code: Select all

		G	W	win
PFF		10	7	W 3
drafttek	10	14	G 4
GBN		8	14	G 6
CBS		15	5	W 10
draft countdown	7	13	G 6
TDN		6	16	G 10
mockdraftdatabase4	8	G 4
NFL - Jeremiah	13	6	W 7
ESPN - ?	7	16	G 9
TSN - Iyer	10	23	G 13
Gonzalez clearly leading
1999-2002: Mouth Off Sports Forum (RIP)
2002-2014: KFFL (RIP)
2014-2016: USAToday Fantasy Sports Forum (RIP)

Hello, my name is Moriarty. I have come to kill your website, prepare to die.
User avatar
Grizzled
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5552
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:55 pm
Has thanked: 605 times
Been thanked: 485 times

Ditka’s dictaphone wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 1:41 pm
Grizzled wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 12:56 pm

I'm going to nominate you for a Nobel Peace Prize.
Thanks Grizzled, I think the other candidates are going to struggle to match my achievements
It would rank up there as for peace treaties.
Drafts are like snowflakes, no two are alike.
RichH55
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7942
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:23 pm
Has thanked: 511 times
Been thanked: 598 times

dplank wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 12:45 pm Kiper ranks Gonzalez over Spoon in his latest mock.

Kiper >>>> PFF

You put WAY to much emphasis on PFF IMO
Lets not go crazy on Kiper here
RichH55
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7942
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:23 pm
Has thanked: 511 times
Been thanked: 598 times

Ditka’s dictaphone wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 1:41 pm
Grizzled wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 12:56 pm

I'm going to nominate you for a Nobel Peace Prize.
Thanks Grizzled, I think the other candidates are going to struggle to match my achievements
Leatherwood won't be blocking you from it for sure.
The Grizzly One
Crafty Veteran
Posts: 934
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:09 am
Has thanked: 675 times
Been thanked: 128 times

Gentlemen PLEASE!

Leatherwood will be the LG and should be solid. But the starting RT for the Bears and the NFL All-Pro team will be...you can book it...etch it in stone...is
Teven Jenkins!
I'm gone. Have a nice life. I'm clearly not wanted here.
User avatar
dplank
Hall of Famer
Posts: 12025
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:19 am
Has thanked: 1201 times
Been thanked: 2138 times

I’d be ok with that
User avatar
Yogi da Bear
Head Coach
Posts: 2499
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:43 pm
Has thanked: 209 times
Been thanked: 359 times

Me too.
User avatar
The Cooler King
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5005
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:07 pm
Has thanked: 1203 times
Been thanked: 346 times

The Grizzly One wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 11:17 pm Gentlemen PLEASE!

Leatherwood will be the LG and should be solid. But the starting RT for the Bears and the NFL All-Pro team will be...you can book it...etch it in stone...is
Teven Jenkins!
I would probably place him being the RT on another team over the Bears tbh. I think he's a G or traded.
User avatar
wab
Mod
Posts: 29805
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 1956 times

The Cooler King wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:45 am
The Grizzly One wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 11:17 pm Gentlemen PLEASE!

Leatherwood will be the LG and should be solid. But the starting RT for the Bears and the NFL All-Pro team will be...you can book it...etch it in stone...is
Teven Jenkins!
I would probably place him being the RT on another team over the Bears tbh. I think he's a G or traded.
I lean towards being traded, but as of this very moment, I’d argue that he’s the Bears best option at RT.
User avatar
The Cooler King
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5005
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:07 pm
Has thanked: 1203 times
Been thanked: 346 times

wab wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:04 am
The Cooler King wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:45 am

I would probably place him being the RT on another team over the Bears tbh. I think he's a G or traded.
I lean towards being traded, but as of this very moment, I’d argue that he’s the Bears best option at RT.
It's an intersting choice. I loved him as a OT prospect obviously, but he's right now only proven at G and has injury concerns obviously.

Push came to shove, I'm keeping him at RG and not messing with what was our best OL last year. Davis will have to learn left, he said he was open to it in press conference. Then get a swing OT to compete with Borom.

If you really feel one of the OT is a top 10 worthy and scheme fit, go for it, otherwise go with a toolsy fit at 61 or 64 and also insert them into the competition at RT or even to push Jones at LT. Borom and possibly a drafted guy could also bump down to RG if Jenkins got hurt again.

Whitehair competes with Patrick and maybe a 4th rounder or something at C?
User avatar
Yogi da Bear
Head Coach
Posts: 2499
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:43 pm
Has thanked: 209 times
Been thanked: 359 times

Me? I give Jenkins a shot at RT. That's his most dominant position, and it's what he considers himself to be. In fact, he was so dominant in college that the prior regime tried to make him a LT. Last year, playing RG, he showed the quickness to be a RT. He was stalwart in pass blocking and helped out Borom a lot, usually with pancakes. Tell me this guy doesn't have what it takes to be our RT.




He already seems like he's slimmed down a lot this year. That should give him even more quickness. Besides, him and Davis side by side on the right side makes me absolutely giddy.

To tell you the truth, the OT I want most in this draft is Blake Freeland. He's by far the most athletic out of all of them. He just needs to work on his base and his response to inside counters. Freeland needs development, but his ceiling is the highest in the draft. Picking him up in the third, we would have a swing tackle who could fill in on either side. In the meantime, you have Jenkins at RT and Jones at left.
User avatar
Arkansasbear
Head Coach
Posts: 4817
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:41 am
Has thanked: 457 times
Been thanked: 655 times

Yogi da Bear wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 2:52 pm Me? I give Jenkins a shot at RT. That's his most dominant position, and it's what he considers himself to be. In fact, he was so dominant in college that the prior regime tried to make him a LT. Last year, playing RG, he showed the quickness to be a RT. He was stalwart in pass blocking and helped out Borom a lot, usually with pancakes. Tell me this guy doesn't have what it takes to be our RT.




He already seems like he's slimmed down a lot this year. That should give him even more quickness. Besides, him and Davis side by side on the right side makes me absolutely giddy.

To tell you the truth, the OT I want most in this draft is Blake Freeland. He's by far the most athletic out of all of them. He just needs to work on his base and his response to inside counters. Freeland needs development, but his ceiling is the highest in the draft. Picking him up in the third, we would have a swing tackle who could fill in on either side. In the meantime, you have Jenkins at RT and Jones at left.
Yogi I think it was you that first posting some of his tape from college that got me doing a deeper dive into him and was sold on him as being a solid RT for us for years if we landed him. I think the two biggest hurdles he has are the injury bug that has caused him to miss game both seasons and I simply think the staff has no faith in him. Clearly, he was in the dog house at the start of last year for whatever reasons. His play last year, at least to me, shows he is an NFL talent.

Just have to find out if he has overcome whatever the coaches saw felt, that kept them from being all in on him. Once we get past that is he a RG or RT. I'd love to see him be our RT for the next decade, but I'd be satisfied for him to do that at RG. I do hate when they move guys all over the place and it's started that way with him LT to RT to bench to RG. Do they keep him there, move him to RT or simply move him to another team. The last one seems like the worst play for them to make. What's he going to net? A 6th??? I'd rather have him on the bench to step in when an injury hits.
RichH55
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7942
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:23 pm
Has thanked: 511 times
Been thanked: 598 times

I kind of like the idea of trying him back at RT
User avatar
Arkansasbear
Head Coach
Posts: 4817
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:41 am
Has thanked: 457 times
Been thanked: 655 times

RichH55 wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:29 pm I kind of like the idea of trying him back at RT
I'm all on board for that idea. Just have a feeling this staff won't touch that idea with a 15 foot pole.
RichH55
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7942
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:23 pm
Has thanked: 511 times
Been thanked: 598 times

Arkansasbear wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:05 pm
RichH55 wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:29 pm I kind of like the idea of trying him back at RT
I'm all on board for that idea. Just have a feeling this staff won't touch that idea with a 15 foot pole.
Is that a different pole then Jenkins got after the back surgery?


I think the tea leaves suggest the staff doesn't want him at RT though (for better or worse)
User avatar
Heinz D.
MVP
Posts: 1040
Joined: Fri May 06, 2022 4:29 pm
Location: Tri-State area
Has thanked: 947 times
Been thanked: 158 times

Why the hell would Poles trade Teven Jenkins?
My mother's love was inexplicably linked to kickball.
HurricaneBear
Head Coach
Posts: 2165
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:56 am
Has thanked: 1852 times
Been thanked: 350 times

He's an all pro RG. Just leave him there and draft Broderick Jones.

Jones, Davis, Whitehair/rookie, Jenkins, Jones.
User avatar
dplank
Hall of Famer
Posts: 12025
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:19 am
Has thanked: 1201 times
Been thanked: 2138 times

HurricaneBear wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 6:55 pm He's an all pro RG. Just leave him there and draft Broderick Jones.

Jones, Davis, Whitehair/rookie, Jenkins, Jones.
That could be a good line
User avatar
wab
Mod
Posts: 29805
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 1956 times

Heinz D. wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:00 pm Why the hell would Poles trade Teven Jenkins?
Because he keeps seemingly trying to replace him and openly considered trading him already. Then the staff begrudgingly played him out of desperation. And he’s been hurt since coming into the league.
User avatar
thunderspirit
Head Coach
Posts: 3829
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:51 pm
Location: Greater Chicagoland, IL
Has thanked: 605 times
Been thanked: 603 times

wab wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:40 pm
Heinz D. wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:00 pm Why the hell would Poles trade Teven Jenkins?
Because he keeps seemingly trying to replace him and openly considered trading him already. Then the staff begrudgingly played him out of desperation. And he’s been hurt since coming into the league.
You may not like it — I don't much — but there's been plenty of indicators about all of this since Poles and Flus came aboard.
KFFL refugee.

dplank wrote:I agree with Rich here
RichH55 wrote: Dplank is correct
:shocked:
cblaz11
MVP
Posts: 1272
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:02 pm
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 111 times

I think they’ve identified Jenkins as an immature guy that needs motivation. Their way of doing that is by not promising him a job…forcing him to earn it.

Jenkins wants to get paid…I expect him to come in this year with a different mindset. That said, If someone offered us anything higher then a 4th they would absolutely move him.
User avatar
dave99
Assistant Coach
Posts: 662
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:14 am
Location: Plano Texas
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 172 times

cblaz11 wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:29 am I think they’ve identified Jenkins as an immature guy that needs motivation. Their way of doing that is by not promising him a job…forcing him to earn it.

Jenkins wants to get paid…I expect him to come in this year with a different mindset. That said, If someone offered us anything higher then a 4th they would absolutely move him.
The spin from the brain trust was just the opposite:
https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bears ... d-practice
"Well, I think the one thing in our system, I think I said this before is that guards get stressed mentally more than tackles do in this system," offensive coordinator Luke Getsy said Monday. "So, he's someone that can, that's the strength of his game and so we want to try that and see what that looks like within what we're trying to get done."
Everyone says that Skoronski would make a good tackle and an all world guard. Maybe the Bears see something similar in Jenkins.

Also from Jenkins NFL draft overview:
Jenkins has good tackle tape, but his short arms and average range in pass sets could be something to keep an eye on
Even at guard Jenkins grades out just average as a pass blocker.
The secret is to work less as individuals and more as a team. As a coach, I play not my eleven best, but my best eleven.
~Knute Rockne
User avatar
dplank
Hall of Famer
Posts: 12025
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:19 am
Has thanked: 1201 times
Been thanked: 2138 times

Jenkins run blocking was excellent and his pass blocking was just ok. However, Jenkins was moved around a lot and asked to learn a new position in the middle of training camp. He also had Mustipher on one side of him and Borom on the other, that’s terrible. And as a whole unit, the new scheme being implemented definitely caused some protection breakdowns even with established vets like Whitehair.

So when you take all of that into consideration, Teven was extremely impressive IMO and should absolutely get better next year (as will everyone else). The big thing with Teven is that he is the one guy we have that can overpower defensive lineman regularly - no one else showed that ability.
User avatar
Bears Whiskey Nut
Hall of Famer
Posts: 11017
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:06 am
Location: Oak Park, IL
Has thanked: 77 times
Been thanked: 516 times

Jenkins is an all pro just about wherever you put him on the OL, save C. That's IF he has his attitude and want to squared away. If he acts like he did last year I think the team will try and move him, maybe even during the draft. Flus and Poles aren't going to tolerate immature tantrums because aren't playing where they want to. IF he gets his head squared away, I say you definitely try him at RT, but his tape from last year shows him with the abilities of an all pro RG.

I'm with Hurricane, but I think they are going to make Whitehair compete for C, and I think he'd lose out to Eiselen. I'm also curious to see what the Bears have in Diesch at RT. Maybe we'll see him in preseason.
Jones - Davis - Eiselen - Jenkins - Broderick Jones
Image
User avatar
The Cooler King
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5005
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:07 pm
Has thanked: 1203 times
Been thanked: 346 times

Bears Whiskey Nut wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:30 am Jenkins is an all pro just about wherever you put him on the OL, save C. That's IF he has his attitude and want to squared away. If he acts like he did last year I think the team will try and move him, maybe even during the draft. Flus and Poles aren't going to tolerate immature tantrums because aren't playing where they want to. IF he gets his head squared away, I say you definitely try him at RT, but his tape from last year shows him with the abilities of an all pro RG.

I'm with Hurricane, but I think they are going to make Whitehair compete for C, and I think he'd lose out to Eiselen. I'm also curious to see what the Bears have in Diesch at RT. Maybe we'll see him in preseason.
Jones - Davis - Eiselen - Jenkins - Broderick Jones
Eiselen?!?

I'm gonna disagree with that one.
User avatar
dplank
Hall of Famer
Posts: 12025
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:19 am
Has thanked: 1201 times
Been thanked: 2138 times

Same. And JMO but there's a lot of conjecture in that assessment of Jenkins. We were never given any insight from him or the coaches on what was going on with him, and if any of those problems persisted once the season began. For all we know it's completely old news / water under the bridge. Narratives have a nasty way of sticking around longer than they should.
User avatar
The Cooler King
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5005
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:07 pm
Has thanked: 1203 times
Been thanked: 346 times

dplank wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:01 am Same. And JMO but there's a lot of conjecture in that assessment of Jenkins. We were never given any insight from him or the coaches on what was going on with him, and if any of those problems persisted once the season began. For all we know it's completely old news / water under the bridge. Narratives have a nasty way of sticking around longer than they should.
I hope that's the case! But I got a little nervous their only OL FA acquisition has only ever played the position that Jenkins just excelled at. Whether it's a "fit" issue or injury concern, I'm in a bit of of cautious attitude regarding his future.
User avatar
Moriarty
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6806
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:22 pm
Has thanked: 384 times
Been thanked: 688 times

dplank wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:01 am Same. And JMO but there's a lot of conjecture in that assessment of Jenkins. We were never given any insight from him or the coaches on what was going on with him, and if any of those problems persisted once the season began. For all we know it's completely old news / water under the bridge. Narratives have a nasty way of sticking around longer than they should.
Sure, that's entirely possible.

But the reverse is also true, too.
Maybe their negative feelings about Jenkins run even deeper than we suspect and maybe there's reasons for that that we aren't at all aware of.

Or maybe the average guess here is pretty on the money.


There's uncertainty when you're talking non-field performance issues and there's room for error in either direction.
1999-2002: Mouth Off Sports Forum (RIP)
2002-2014: KFFL (RIP)
2014-2016: USAToday Fantasy Sports Forum (RIP)

Hello, my name is Moriarty. I have come to kill your website, prepare to die.
RichH55
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7942
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:23 pm
Has thanked: 511 times
Been thanked: 598 times

Moriarty wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:46 am
dplank wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:01 am Same. And JMO but there's a lot of conjecture in that assessment of Jenkins. We were never given any insight from him or the coaches on what was going on with him, and if any of those problems persisted once the season began. For all we know it's completely old news / water under the bridge. Narratives have a nasty way of sticking around longer than they should.
Sure, that's entirely possible.

But the reverse is also true, too.
Maybe their negative feelings about Jenkins run even deeper than we suspect and maybe there's reasons for that that we aren't at all aware of.

Or maybe the average guess here is pretty on the money.


There's uncertainty when you're talking non-field performance issues and there's room for error in either direction.

This. Though people wanted to kind of wave away any of the smoke - either saying it was BS or that Poles should be fired if they got rid of him.

But his play on the field was very good. So it could be any number of things overall - and change is possible. It's also completely possible that the kid is a Red Light Player (*) and doesn't practice well - which can drive coaches crazy.

(*) Plays better when the lights go live.

I do wonder what impact the later season injuries had on the coaching/GM mindset. (Fair or Unfair)

It seems to me that Coaches especially and maybe GMs - love the mantra "The best ability is availability" - and when a guy gets hurt - even when flukey (the neck stuff) after missing a year due to back - Then tend to write off the player (or at least put him in the doghouse). It's a cut- throat occupation
Post Reply