Re: 9th Pick
Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:11 am
For the same reasons that I like Van Ness, I dislike Kancey. While he has the tape, I don’t like how he projects to the next level. More interested in Adetomiwa Adebawore or Tuli Tuipulotu (have to put some lbs on him) in the Second.
The scouting report I read on Kancey gave me the willies.
On the other hand another site calls him a " rolling ball of butcher knives."Kancey’s burst off the line and initial move can be so quick and decisive that linemen just can’t match it. Interior linemen don’t have that kind of quickness, and tackles are often making up too much ground to execute their assignment to have any hope of really stopping him.
Where he isn’t as good as Donald — and what makes any comparisons to Donald simply unfair for any player — is hand use and shedding blocks.
Donald's dominance is derived from his combination of speed, explosion and quickness with maybe the best hands in the game from a defensive line perspective. Donald always had that ability, and he separated himself from a lot of undersized, athletic interior linemen due to those skills. He is virtually impossible to block one-on-one because he will defeat the block on contact or shed it if given enough time.
It’s difficult to overstate just how good he is at that skill in the NFL, or how effective he was at it coming out of college, but it’s certainly helped separate him from the pack. Kancey isn’t by any means bad at that aspect of play — he’s just not Donald.
I’m very happy with a trade down.
Poles explicity said that they will discount their preference for measurables if a guy jumps out on tape as being simply a great football player. That explains their signing of Edwards whose RAS is "meh" but his produciton is top notch. Production talks.TheWorldBreaker wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 3:20 pm I don’t believe there’s a snowball’s chance in hell the Bears drat Kancey, especially in the first round. But Eberflus and Poles have mentioned valuing length, and Poles again went on about length when talking about Edmunds—his biggest free agency signing.
Can’t see them turning around and using a 1st round pick on a guy with 30 inch arms after all of that emphasis on length.
There’s a difference between signing someone who has proven they can do it in the NFL, and using a first round pick on a player whose measurables aren’t meh or outside of ideal but actually unprecedented in how short they are for a starter at defensive line.IE wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 5:36 pmPoles explicity said that they will discount their preference for measurables if a guy jumps out on tape as being simply a great football player. That explains their signing of Edwards whose RAS is "meh" but his produciton is top notch. Production talks.TheWorldBreaker wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 3:20 pm I don’t believe there’s a snowball’s chance in hell the Bears drat Kancey, especially in the first round. But Eberflus and Poles have mentioned valuing length, and Poles again went on about length when talking about Edmunds—his biggest free agency signing.
Can’t see them turning around and using a 1st round pick on a guy with 30 inch arms after all of that emphasis on length.
It would not be inconsistent to pick someone with measurables outside of the ideal if they think production will overwhelm. That was straight from Poles' mouth last spring.
Ok. Then we very very much disagree across the board here. Will see how it plays outcblaz11 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 5:15 amI like Jones and think he will be a middle of the road starting RT at the next level. To me, that means constantly ranking somewhere between 10-20. That said, when watching his full games, I see him struggling just a little to get out vs the speed rush…He recovers because of his long arms, but in some cases his height hurts him.,he’s bending over and borderline lunging. All that can be coached…and I think he will be fine. That said, that is not something I see Poles being ok with when you consider what we ask our OTs to do.RichH55 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 8:50 pm
Im curious as to why you think 0%?
D. Jones has alot better movement skills than Orlando btw
https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Daw ... -OhioState
10 Yard Split is quite good overall before you figure out he's a monster
He's Jordan Maliata not Orlando Brown/Jones/Bloom
Now, if he’s there in the 5th, maybe. My guess is he goes late 2nd or earlier.
On a side note, I think Darnell Wright carries his weigh much better and is a much better scheme fit.
Thanks for that Yogi! Always look forward to your picnic baskets!Yogi da Bear wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:05 amCblaz, ever since your touting of Brandon Albert, I've almost always agreed with your analysis of prospects. Hell, I even incorporated Albert into my Picnic Basket that year. But I simply can't in the case of Nolan Smith.cblaz11 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 1:51 pm
Agreed in Murphy…I hate when people hold past athletes from the same college against a current athlete…yet, I can’t stop doing it with Murphy lol. I need to look at him again.
Van Ness has so much potential…Guy fits our philosophy to a T. Hustle…traits…character. Get him in the building and trust the coaches to get the best out of him.
I think you guys need to look at Nolan Smith again…he played really well with his hand in the dirt and I think the Micah comps are warranted.
Breese just can’t stay healthy….
My biggest gripe is his size. Not only his weight at 238, but his height at 6'2". I like 4-3 DEs to be 6'4" to 6'6" and 270 plus pounds. Because of his height, he can't add much more weight to his frame, so at best, you're looking at a 6'2", 250 lb DE in a 4-3. I don't believe that's enough to hold up long term in the NFL at the position.
In fact, Smith has already been hurt in the relatively short collegiate season in BOTH '21 and '22. And that's as only a part time hand in the dirt DE in facing college OTs. But not only that, Georgia often rested him in game in his OLB/DE role for long stretches. And yes, as a DE, Smith sometimes can use his speed to great effect, but more often when an OT gets his hands on him, he gets subsumed.
So I thought back to Georgia's thoroughly manhandling my Ducks in the first game of the season, and quite frankly, I don't remember much at all of Smith in that game. So I looked back, and sure enough, he didn't have much of an impact in the Bulldog's thorough dismantling of us, and Smith inexplicably went missing for long stretches of the game (and that was before the game was thoroughly out of hand), and when he was in, he was pretty effectively blocked. It wasn't Smith who created problems for the Duck offense.
I found similar in the South Carolina and Florida tapes: inexplicable on field absences accompanied by quite a few instances where he was thoroughly block interspersed with the occasional flashes of athleticism, most usually when he's unblocked.
Man, that Georgia defense is tough across the board, but sorry, I have to go Nancy Reagan on Smith as a 4-3 DE--"Just say no." As a 3-4 OLB though, he shows a lot of promise.
As to Bresee, I think we'd have a hard time holding on to him when free agency came up:
Sorry, I couldn't resist.![]()
I thought the Wright kid was the talk at the Senior Bowl? I thought he impressed everyone so much that he went from a mid 2nd to a potential 1st. Then, I believe he impressed with his measurables at the combine as wellRichH55 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:26 pmOk. Then we very very much disagree across the board here. Will see how it plays outcblaz11 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 5:15 am
I like Jones and think he will be a middle of the road starting RT at the next level. To me, that means constantly ranking somewhere between 10-20. That said, when watching his full games, I see him struggling just a little to get out vs the speed rush…He recovers because of his long arms, but in some cases his height hurts him.,he’s bending over and borderline lunging. All that can be coached…and I think he will be fine. That said, that is not something I see Poles being ok with when you consider what we ask our OTs to do.
Now, if he’s there in the 5th, maybe. My guess is he goes late 2nd or earlier.
On a side note, I think Darnell Wright carries his weigh much better and is a much better scheme fit.
I didn't think the Wright kid looked all that good during Senior Bowl practice and moved worse than Jones - And that is with Jones being a Planet Killer size wise
Here is some Senior Bowl footage from his 1 day there (*).
(*) I think the one day was so impressive he got a "Senior Bowl blues" - Agent whispering you did what you needed to do and you can't help your stock anymore - but stay around for interviews with teams (which he did - and you dont do that if you actually had a concussion)
I wasn't expecting anything out of him coming in - I knew he was really big - that's it.
And they said that (truthfully) about the Minn OL last year at Senior Bowl - and he was big - but a big bucket of goo
Jones can move (good basketball prospect in high school for what its worth)
Guys his size shouldn't be able to move like that
The Tenn kid? He moved how I'd expect a 300 LB man to move - sluggishly
I thought the Wright kid was the talk at the Senior Bowl? I thought he impressed everyone so much that he went from a mid 2nd to a potential mid 1st. Then, I believe he impressed with his measurables at the combine as wellRichH55 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:26 pmOk. Then we very very much disagree across the board here. Will see how it plays outcblaz11 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 5:15 am
I like Jones and think he will be a middle of the road starting RT at the next level. To me, that means constantly ranking somewhere between 10-20. That said, when watching his full games, I see him struggling just a little to get out vs the speed rush…He recovers because of his long arms, but in some cases his height hurts him.,he’s bending over and borderline lunging. All that can be coached…and I think he will be fine. That said, that is not something I see Poles being ok with when you consider what we ask our OTs to do.
Now, if he’s there in the 5th, maybe. My guess is he goes late 2nd or earlier.
On a side note, I think Darnell Wright carries his weigh much better and is a much better scheme fit.
I didn't think the Wright kid looked all that good during Senior Bowl practice and moved worse than Jones - And that is with Jones being a Planet Killer size wise
Here is some Senior Bowl footage from his 1 day there (*).
(*) I think the one day was so impressive he got a "Senior Bowl blues" - Agent whispering you did what you needed to do and you can't help your stock anymore - but stay around for interviews with teams (which he did - and you dont do that if you actually had a concussion)
I wasn't expecting anything out of him coming in - I knew he was really big - that's it.
And they said that (truthfully) about the Minn OL last year at Senior Bowl - and he was big - but a big bucket of goo
Jones can move (good basketball prospect in high school for what its worth)
Guys his size shouldn't be able to move like that
The Tenn kid? He moved how I'd expect a 300 LB man to move - sluggishly
Jesus, 30 inch arms? What a he, a fucking TRex?TheWorldBreaker wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 3:20 pm I don’t believe there’s a snowball’s chance in hell the Bears drat Kancey, especially in the first round. But Eberflus and Poles have mentioned valuing length, and Poles again went on about length when talking about Edmunds—his biggest free agency signing.
Can’t see them turning around and using a 1st round pick on a guy with 30 inch arms after all of that emphasis on length.
I think the NFL.com write up seems pretty on point for the Tenn kidduckherd50 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:27 amI thought the Wright kid was the talk at the Senior Bowl? I thought he impressed everyone so much that he went from a mid 2nd to a potential mid 1st. Then, I believe he impressed with his measurables at the combine as wellRichH55 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:26 pm
Ok. Then we very very much disagree across the board here. Will see how it plays out
I didn't think the Wright kid looked all that good during Senior Bowl practice and moved worse than Jones - And that is with Jones being a Planet Killer size wise
Here is some Senior Bowl footage from his 1 day there (*).
(*) I think the one day was so impressive he got a "Senior Bowl blues" - Agent whispering you did what you needed to do and you can't help your stock anymore - but stay around for interviews with teams (which he did - and you dont do that if you actually had a concussion)
I wasn't expecting anything out of him coming in - I knew he was really big - that's it.
And they said that (truthfully) about the Minn OL last year at Senior Bowl - and he was big - but a big bucket of goo
Jones can move (good basketball prospect in high school for what its worth)
Guys his size shouldn't be able to move like that
The Tenn kid? He moved how I'd expect a 300 LB man to move - sluggishly
Of course the Senior Bowl is important, especially for measuring prospects against top talent when they didn’t face it during their regular seasons. But, I think real game film against elite talent is much more valuable. There was no one at the Senior Bowl at Will Anderson’s level to judge these guys against.
What’s interesting about this write up is that his athletic testing was much better than people expected and was the second highest which I’ve seen has now moved him into the first round in some mocks.RichH55 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:37 amI think the NFL.com write up seems pretty on point for the Tenn kidduckherd50 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:27 am I thought the Wright kid was the talk at the Senior Bowl? I thought he impressed everyone so much that he went from a mid 2nd to a potential mid 1st. Then, I believe he impressed with his measurables at the combine as well
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/darnell-w ... c7afd9f5d5
Overview
Right tackle prospect who used his size and power to overcome athletic limitations and spotty technique on the collegiate level. The tape can be a little uneven for Wright with poor block finishes followed up by aggressive pancakes. He played with much better body control and footwork in 2022, though. Wright is capable of staying at right tackle at the next level provided he’s given protection help from time to time. While he was often a positional blocker at Tennessee, he’s a very talented drive blocker when allowed to fire out. There will be inconsistent outings, but Wright should develop into a decent starting tackle with the potential to kick inside if necessary.
Comp is DJ Fluker
I absolutely fell in love with Jones during that first Senior Bowl practice. I've always loved those mauler types. And Jones is faster that you'd think. Still, the question becomes whether he fits our system. Oh, I have no doubt he'd be fine pass protection. He uses his bulk consume defenders and his length to push them past the QB. But it's one thing to have the speed to do that and quite another to accomplish a reach block in our offense. I don't think that Jones has the speed to do that. In this circumstance, his pure size works against him. He has to get his entire bulk to the outside of the defender and turn him. That's a lot of ask for a guy 6'8", 350 pounds with a 1.92 ten-yard split.duckherd50 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:27 amI thought the Wright kid was the talk at the Senior Bowl? I thought he impressed everyone so much that he went from a mid 2nd to a potential mid 1st. Then, I believe he impressed with his measurables at the combine as wellRichH55 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:26 pm
Ok. Then we very very much disagree across the board here. Will see how it plays out
I didn't think the Wright kid looked all that good during Senior Bowl practice and moved worse than Jones - And that is with Jones being a Planet Killer size wise
Here is some Senior Bowl footage from his 1 day there (*).
(*) I think the one day was so impressive he got a "Senior Bowl blues" - Agent whispering you did what you needed to do and you can't help your stock anymore - but stay around for interviews with teams (which he did - and you dont do that if you actually had a concussion)
I wasn't expecting anything out of him coming in - I knew he was really big - that's it.
And they said that (truthfully) about the Minn OL last year at Senior Bowl - and he was big - but a big bucket of goo
Jones can move (good basketball prospect in high school for what its worth)
Guys his size shouldn't be able to move like that
The Tenn kid? He moved how I'd expect a 300 LB man to move - sluggishly
I go back and forth on taking Robinson at 9, just saying "screw it" to the DL problem and going all in on a Super Team Offense.EricTighe wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:50 pm Get the stakes and torches out because I am going to piss a whole lot of guys off with this. But at number 9 if we stay put I will be happy with any of these guys.
DE Wilson
DL Breese
CB Gonzales
ok and here it comes. Arguably the best player in the draft regardless of position.
BIJAN ROBINSON RB TEXAS
40 TIME: 4.46 SECONDS (81%*)
AGE: 21.1 DOB: 01/30/2002
MEASURABLES:
HEIGHT: 5-11 (57%*) WEIGHT: 215 (55%*)
HANDS: 9 3/4 (77%*) ARM: 31 1/8 (55%*)
SPAN: 74 6/8 (57%*)
FORTY: 4.46 (C) (81%*)
SHUTTLE:
10 YARD SPLIT: 1.52 (C) (87%*)
VERTICAL: 37 (C) (79%*)
BROAD JUMP: 124 (C) (84%*)
I am really warming up to this idea. He would make our whole line better and teams will be scared shitless to blitz with his kid rolling out in the flat. I am one person that might even do a cart wheel or two if we grab him.
In 2020 as a freshman he burst onto the scene seeing action in 9 games for the Longhorns as he ran for 705 yards on 87 attempts for an average of 8.1 yards per carry adding with 4 TDs, and a fumble. As a receiver, he made 15 receptions for 196 yards.
As a sophomore in 2021 he played in 10 games. and rushed for 1127 yards on 195 carries for an average of 5.8 ypc, with 11 TDs, and 3 fumbles. In the passing game, he pulled in 26 receptions for 293 yards.
Robinson was Named first-team All-Big 12 by conference coaches and the Associated Press and furthermore, awarded a Maxwell Award, Doak Walker Award, and Earl Campbell Tyler Rose Award, semifinalist.
In 2022 as a junior Robinson saw action in 12 games for the Longhorns. He ran for an elite 1575 yards on 257 attempts for 6.1 ypc, with 18 TDs, with 2 fumbles. As a receiver, he made 19 receptions for 314 yards.
Oh yeah, he is supposedly the type of kid you would want your daughter to bring home. Really hard to find something to not like about him. Except don't take an RB in round 1.
FWIW, I also think that this could be the Bear target. He has all the athleticism and physical stature that Poles looks for. The biggest problem became apparent at the Senior Bowl where he should a definite weakness for inside moves and bull rushes. Remind you of anybody? lolEricTighe wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:31 pm Love Jones since day 1. Still do. But he is not what we are looking for as in scheme fit. As Poles said in his conversation about why we didn't go for Orlando Brown.
You want a scheme fit to Tee. Even though he isn't a first-rounder. Here he is.
BLAKE FREELAND OT BYU | NFL DRAFT PROFILE & SCOUTING REPORT
40 TIME: 4.98 SECONDS (94%*)
AGE: 21.10 DOB: 05/03/2001
MEASURABLES:
HEIGHT: 6-7 (76%*) WEIGHT: 302 (17%*)
HANDS: 10 (47%*) ARM: 33 7/8 (43%*)
SPAN: 82 5/8 (76%*)
FORTY: 4.98 (C) (94%*)
SHUTTLE: 4.71 (C) (59%*)
10 YARD SPLIT: 1.68 (C) (93%*)
VERTICAL: 37 (C) (100%*)
BROAD JUMP: 120 (C) (99%*)
THREE CONE: 7.46 (C) (86%*)
In 2019 as a freshman Freeland saw action in 7 games and played a total of 502 snaps for the Cougars. He allowed 10 QB hurries, 4 QB hits, and one sack while playing at right tackle.
As a sophomore in 2020 he played in 11 games and a total of 452 snaps. He conceded 11 QB hurries, 3 QB hits, and no sacks while playing at right tackle.
In 2021 as a junior Freeland saw action in 13 games and totaled 876 snaps. He gave up just 3 QB hurries, one QB hit, and one sack while playing at left tackle.
In 2022 as a senior Freeland saw action in 12 games and played a total of 805 snaps for the Cougars. He allowed a solid 5 QB hurries, 3 QB hits, and no sacks while playing at left tackle.
The most athletic O-Lineman in this class.
The Bears already have two guys who can do that in 200 carries. So they're not going to use them regularly? I know BR is a stud but the opportunity costs are too great.The Marshall Plan wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 3:05 pm Imagine giving JF1 a legit RB who can get 1,000 yards + per season and be a consistent threat to break off long runs. It opens up the whole offense.