Poles 7 "blue chippers"

[cblaz11]

Great tape…I don’t see him flash outside of a play or 2. I see him play upright a lot…

This is also a great tape to watch Skoronski run around and block nobody on a couple run plays.

Also, great tape for Paris.

In regards to Van Ness….
1. Physical traits are off the chart
2. Physical traits are also a sign of work ethic…kid clearly lives in the gym. Imagine the possibilities once he gets into the NFL with the added resources
3. Clean character- All signs point to high character, responsible, and strong family support
4. Non stop motor- The NFL is full of guys that have high athletic traits but don’t produce..in a lot of cases, motor/effort is the reason. Van Ness won’t have that issue…This kid has a non stop motor
5. He’s scheme diverse
6. College production was there with 14 sacks in two years

The NFL is also full of guys with traits off the charts but don’t have the instincts to produce…That’s probably my number 1 concern with Van Ness but honestly, I don’t see it. He finishes plays well..anticipates, trusts his eyes…

No prospect is a guaranteed, but based on the things above, I feel pretty good if we take him at 9.

[EricTighe]

7 blue chippers.

1. WIll Anderson Jr
2. Bijah Robinson
3. Christian Gonzales
4. Broderick Jones
5. Paris Johnson
6. Quinton Johnson
7. O'Cyrus Torrence

Ok, I had to stretch it to make it to 7.

Not making the list.

1. Jalen Carter- Legal issues and piss-poor pro day have me wondering.
2. Tyree Wilson- Injury concerns
3. Bryan Breese- Injury concerns
4. Peter Skoronski- Athletic issues for a RT.
5. Van Ness- COuldn't even start in college.
6. Michael Mayer- Don't believe he is even the best TE in this class.
7. Devon Witherspoon- Doesn't have the size, length, or great speed. But damn he can cover in college.
8. Myles Murphy- If you want a run stuffer move him into the blue chipper list. Never has been a great pass rusher, hard to imagine he becomes one now.
9. QB's- In general all of them have questions and the number one guy this year would be the third option next year.
10 WR's- One is Smaller than advertised. Both ran close to 4.5. JSN has injury issues to deal with. Only Johnson would be a first-rounder next year.

Like it or hate it, this class is not as top-heavy as the one coming in next year. Would love us to trade down and pick up another 1st next year if possible.

[Yogi da Bear]

Cblaz, I was actually impressed by his tape against Ohio State. Try watching this way so you only have to look at the Northwestern defense:



I count quite a few impact plays and holds against him. He's also double teamed a bit as well.

[The Cooler King]

The seven blue chippers certainly included at least some of the QBs. Possibly all 4 top guys.

If I had to guess

Blue chip:
Anderson
Carter
Wilson

Borderline blue chip (depending how may QBs:
Gonzalez
JSN
Possibly one of the OT, but not Skoronski. But one of the others. Doubtful multiple if them

Remote chance
Kancey
QJ
Murphy

[karhu]

Thanks for those Northwestern v OSU videos.

Which reminds me of a little egg hunt: who knocked Dawand Jones back a full five yards last year and spun him 360 degrees?

[BreadNCircuses]

I think Poles' blue chippers are

4 QBs "Blue chip" because of positional value
Consensus blue-chippers Jalen Carter and Will Anderson
and #7 will magically be whoever he drafts at 9

As for PJJ and Hercules, I think both guys have great physical attributes but have areas to improve technique-wise. That's why they're in the discussion at #9

Nobody at 9 will is a sure-thing blue-chipper in my opinion. I'm good with the trade-back though because I'm happy with red-chipper DJ Moore and the two additional red chip guys we should get from 9 and Carolina's 1st next year.

The way I've heard people in the league talk about it generally breaks down to:

Definition of a blue-chip player
» Player demonstrates rare abilities and can create mismatches that have an obvious impact on the game
» Is a premier player in the league and a weapon on the field
» Combines competitiveness and skill to have a consistent championship-level performance
» Rates in the top five at his position in the league

Definition of a red-chip player
» Player has abilities that can create mismatches vs. most opponents in the league
» Is a featured player on the team and has impact on the outcome of the game
» Player can't be taken out of the game in one-on-one matchup
» Has a consistent level of performance each week
» Plays at a championship level performance
» Rates in the top 10 at his position in the league

Presuming that's how Poles is using the term the same way it's commonly used -- and I think we can fairly infer "potential" in front as in "Potential Blue Chip" -- I don't think he sees 4 potential top 5 NFL QBs in this draft.

I do think it's safe to say he's likely throwing a bit of a smokescreen out there to keep his options open, and yeah, everyone's evaluations and draft boards are going to look differently -- I think for my purposes I'll probably look at the PFN consensus board, the PFF board, and the WalterFootball boards

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/2023 ... big-board/

https://www.pff.com/draft/big-board?season=2023

https://walterfootball.com/nfldraftbigboard

The WalterFootball note on Jalen Carter likewise has me
"03/22/23: Prior to the combine, team sources told WalterFootball.com that Carter was weighed down with makeup concerns. Sources from multiple NFL teams had said Carter is not a hard worker and has a reputation for not loving football. Then, the news came out that Carter was involved in street-racing incident in which the other car suffered an accident that left two friends dead and two friends injured. Carter's draft stock with teams is in limbo depending on how they interrupt [sic -- presumably a typo for interpret] his actions and character."

Similarly, his Pro Day from the outside would raise more questions than answers -- the talent is there, but the kid's waving a lot of red flags so far.

I've been dismissive of the idea of us drafting a RB in the top 10, but I'm starting to wonder, given the potential depth lasting to the end of the 2nd round at OL and DT -- maybe Poles is thinking about Bijan if he's there.


Bijan Robinson, RB, Texas. Previously: 1 Avg. 1.9 per 28
03/22/23: Sources from a number teams have Robinson as the only player in the 2023 NFL Draft with an elite grade. He is the consensus best player with pro teams for the 2023 NFL Draft. As we reported in the Hot Press, sources from a number of teams had Robinson graded higher than other recent top-five running back prospects of Saquon Barkley, Leonard Fournette and Ezekiel Elliott. Here is what one area scout shared with WalterFootball.com:

"It's rare that the best pure runner is also the best pure receiver; that's what makes Bijan unique," said an area scout. "He can legitimately go run routes like a true receiver. His skill set is more Marshall Faulk than any of those guys. Saquon can obviously win in the passing game, but he's not out running routes like Reggie Bush - Bijan does. His ball skills are as good as the top receivers in this class.

"There are other runners on his level or even a notch better, but you're talking about the elite of every class, even on that alone. You can realistically run the offense thru him because he's in on every situation as your RB1, 1-2nd Down, 2-minute, 4-minute. He's more advanced all around than [Reggie] Bush, Joe Mixon, Saquon, Zeke. McCaffrey would have been like that had he been 215 pounds like Bijan. You have to go back to Faulk to find an elite runner and receiver like Bijan."

[Heinz D.]

I think that, regardless of how many "blue chip" guys Poles feels are in the draft, he's perfectly happy not getting any of them.

[The Cooler King]

I think that, regardless of how many "blue chip" guys Poles feels are in the draft, he's perfectly happy not getting any of them.

For the right price, sure. But I think he'll have a high price to trade down if he has one blue chipper left. And he may not even get an offer.

Does seem like he won't trade up to get one. But maybe hell prove me wrong and be selectively agressive if he feels that need.

[dplank]

I hope so. Everyone bashes Pace like he was the worst GM ever and many praise Poles as if he's infallible, but we shouldn't forget that it was Pace's boldness that landed us JF1. Yes, prior bold moves blew up in his face and his constant trade ups are a poor way to handle the draft generally, but you do need to be selectively aggressive and add blue chip talent when you have the opportunity to do so.

So remember this all of you value hawk, trade down loving folks........Poles doesn't land JF1 in that draft. We end up with Mac Jones if Poles is GMing our team and operating in the mode he is currently. Maybe not even him! Does anyone here regret the JF1 trade? I sure as hell don't.

[Heinz D.]

I hope so. Everyone bashes Pace like he was the worst GM ever and many praise Poles as if he's infallible, but we shouldn't forget that it was Pace's boldness that landed us JF1. Yes, prior bold moves blew up in his face and his constant trade ups are a poor way to handle the draft generally, but you do need to be selectively aggressive and add blue chip talent when you have the opportunity to do so.

I don't think you trade down to #9 if you're obsessed with getting a "blue chip" guy, though. Do you?

I could see Poles trading up in the later rounds this year, and maybe trading up in the first next year, something like that.

[BreadNCircuses]

I hope so. Everyone bashes Pace like he was the worst GM ever and many praise Poles as if he's infallible, but we shouldn't forget that it was Pace's boldness that landed us JF1. Yes, prior bold moves blew up in his face and his constant trade ups are a poor way to handle the draft generally, but you do need to be selectively aggressive and add blue chip talent when you have the opportunity to do so.

I don't think you trade down to #9 if you're obsessed with getting a "blue chip" guy, though. Do you?

I could see Poles trading up in the later rounds this year, and maybe trading up in the first next year, something like that.

I think that depends on how he thinks the count goes.
If he's pretty confident 4 QBs go in the top 5, and is only counting 1-2 of them in his blue chip list, that maybe gives him a shot at the last 1-2 blues available at 9

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

[context] Pace offered 3 first round picks, plus Mack plus Hicks and more for Russ Wilson [/context]

[The Marshall Plan]

I hope so. Everyone bashes Pace like he was the worst GM ever and many praise Poles as if he's infallible, but we shouldn't forget that it was Pace's boldness that landed us JF1. Yes, prior bold moves blew up in his face and his constant trade ups are a poor way to handle the draft generally, but you do need to be selectively aggressive and add blue chip talent when you have the opportunity to do so.

I don't think you trade down to #9 if you're obsessed with getting a "blue chip" guy, though. Do you?

I could see Poles trading up in the later rounds this year, and maybe trading up in the first next year, something like that.

Poles does need to address the massive space in between the 9 and 50-something we have in the second. That's not ME talking, I'm saying that's what I think he's going to do. He needs the starting caliber players that you get from that part of the draft.

As far as next year is concerned, Poles is in the biggest Cat Bird Seat I've ever seen.

Carolina's pick is going to be Top 5. I just don't see how it isn't. Whoever they draft at #1 won't have the supporting cast to win that many games.

Then our pick:

1) We improve and have a better team. We wind up drafting in the teens or 20s.

2) We suck again. We wind up with a top 5-ish pick.

Either way Poles wins. Imagine even the "worst case scenario" of having Carolina's at #5 overall plus ours at let's say #20. Then a full compliment of 2nd rounders and below.

[Heinz D.]

I think that depends on how he thinks the count goes. If he's pretty confident 4 QBs go in the top 5, and is only counting 1-2 of them in his blue chip list, that maybe gives him a shot at the last 1-2 blues available at 9

Yeah, there's a chance of that. I'm not so sure of 4 QBs in the top five (especially since I don't think Seattle grabs one, or trades their pick), but I think it's a safe bet the four top guys are gone by #9.

Poles does need to address the massive space in between the 9 and 50-something we have in the second. That's not ME talking, I'm saying that's what I think he's going to do. He needs the starting caliber players that you get from that part of the draft.

It all depends on whether he's committed to trading down from #9. I'd be okay with that Tampa Bay trade you proposed earlier, as it would give us that high extra second--but Poles may really like a guy, let's say Wilson (as we've been talking about him a lot)--and want to draft him no matter what. It'll be interesting to see what he does. My instincts told me he was gonna trade down for sure...but that was before he ended up with 9 and D.J. Moore...

[The Cooler King]

I hope so. Everyone bashes Pace like he was the worst GM ever and many praise Poles as if he's infallible, but we shouldn't forget that it was Pace's boldness that landed us JF1. Yes, prior bold moves blew up in his face and his constant trade ups are a poor way to handle the draft generally, but you do need to be selectively aggressive and add blue chip talent when you have the opportunity to do so.

So remember this all of you value hawk, trade down loving folks........Poles doesn't land JF1 in that draft. We end up with Mac Jones if Poles is GMing our team and operating in the mode he is currently. Maybe not even him! Does anyone here regret the JF1 trade? I sure as hell don't.

All credit to Pace, but his first round trade ups were all for premium positions. And the first two times he then traded back later to restock.

Double downed after Fields though, and broke that trend.

[BreadNCircuses]

Poles does need to address the massive space in between the 9 and 50-something we have in the second. That's not ME talking, I'm saying that's what I think he's going to do. He needs the starting caliber players that you get from that part of the draft.

I think he's got some room to move around a bit there, but I also think there's some pretty deep value in the 50s to early 60s

I don't believe Cody Mauch drops that far (but I'd love it if he does)

But Matthew Bergeron or Darnell Wright likely available around that point. I could even see us taking Andrew Vorhees with the eye towards him being ready to go the following season
Maybe Andre Carter II or Gervon Dexter Sr. in that range as well if they drop a little bit

[RichH55]

I hope so. Everyone bashes Pace like he was the worst GM ever and many praise Poles as if he's infallible, but we shouldn't forget that it was Pace's boldness that landed us JF1. Yes, prior bold moves blew up in his face and his constant trade ups are a poor way to handle the draft generally, but you do need to be selectively aggressive and add blue chip talent when you have the opportunity to do so.

So remember this all of you value hawk, trade down loving folks........Poles doesn't land JF1 in that draft. We end up with Mac Jones if Poles is GMing our team and operating in the mode he is currently. Maybe not even him! Does anyone here regret the JF1 trade? I sure as hell don't.

Basically zero evidence for this.

But at least you get to bash Poles on literal alternative history stuff

Perhaps you have a hot take on what Poles would have done about the Lindbergh baby?

[EricTighe]

I hope so. Everyone bashes Pace like he was the worst GM ever and many praise Poles as if he's infallible, but we shouldn't forget that it was Pace's boldness that landed us JF1. Yes, prior bold moves blew up in his face and his constant trade ups are a poor way to handle the draft generally, but you do need to be selectively aggressive and add blue chip talent when you have the opportunity to do so.

So remember this all of you value hawk, trade down loving folks........Poles doesn't land JF1 in that draft. We end up with Mac Jones if Poles is GMing our team and operating in the mode he is currently. Maybe not even him! Does anyone here regret the JF1 trade? I sure as hell don't.

Not to bash Pace since he is gone. But using this theory of what if.

If Poles were here instead of Pace maybe we drafted Mahomes instead of Trubisky. Without trading up one spot to take him. Then yes I would be Ok with Mahomes over Fields.

Just playing the what-if game.

[RichH55]

I hope so. Everyone bashes Pace like he was the worst GM ever and many praise Poles as if he's infallible, but we shouldn't forget that it was Pace's boldness that landed us JF1. Yes, prior bold moves blew up in his face and his constant trade ups are a poor way to handle the draft generally, but you do need to be selectively aggressive and add blue chip talent when you have the opportunity to do so.

So remember this all of you value hawk, trade down loving folks........Poles doesn't land JF1 in that draft. We end up with Mac Jones if Poles is GMing our team and operating in the mode he is currently. Maybe not even him! Does anyone here regret the JF1 trade? I sure as hell don't.

Not to bash Pace since he is gone. But using this theory of what if.

If Poles were here instead of Pace maybe we drafted Mahomes instead of Trubisky. Without trading up one spot to take him. Then yes I would be Ok with Mahomes over Fields.

Just playing the what-if game.

Why do you hate Dplank and his whole family history?!?!?

[dplank]

Possibly. I’m pushing back on a specific strategy I hear a lot where folks just want to trade down constantly and are happy to pass on any FA that costs a lot.

I wanted Pace gone as much as anyone here, but his aggressive move did appear to solve our 100 year QB problem. No other GM in my lifetime achieved that. It’s worth noting that sometimes you need to spend to acquire game changing talent, whether that spend be $$ or draft capital.

[RichH55]

People just wanted to pass when people wanted to trade the #1 overall pick (PLUS MORE) For DK Metcalf

But at least we get to make up fake "facts" to crap on Poles.

If only he had maybe been in Kansas City when some other QB was drafted and he was ACTUALLY in the room instead of fake scenarios by bitter posters

What a thing that would have been!

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

@Grizzled I’m going to have to hand my Nobel back at this rate

[dplank]

@Grizzled I’m going to have to hand my Nobel back at this rate

“We” aren’t bickering DD, only he is. It’s an addiction sadly, and highly personal for some reason (we’ve never even met lol). Your prize remains safe sir!

I’ll keep doing my bit and hope that eventually enough people will ask for the harassment to stop because it’s just so damn tiresome and petty.

[RichH55]

I'm merely pointing out - that we are creating counter-factuals and alternative histories to be able to Crap on Poles

I'm hoping people will ask people to LITERALLY deal with Reality

We could just post better - it's allowed! Poles is doing a good job - enjoy it!

[RichH55]

Poles does need to address the massive space in between the 9 and 50-something we have in the second. That's not ME talking, I'm saying that's what I think he's going to do. He needs the starting caliber players that you get from that part of the draft.

I think he's got some room to move around a bit there, but I also think there's some pretty deep value in the 50s to early 60s

I don't believe Cody Mauch drops that far (but I'd love it if he does)

But Matthew Bergeron or Darnell Wright likely available around that point. I could even see us taking Andrew Vorhees with the eye towards him being ready to go the following season
Maybe Andre Carter II or Gervon Dexter Sr. in that range as well if they drop a little bit

I think Cody Mauch will be there come our 2nd Round picks (And thats pre any other trades)

We shall see

[dplank]

Reality: I've praised Poles repeatedly, rated his offseason extremely highly, and been exceptionally clear that the things I take issue with are not indicative of an overall dislike for him. But, you are a liar and so you just keep parroting the same lies over and over and over again, despite knowing better.

And I know you've read all those posts, because you read all my posts in a desperate attempt to find something in there that you can disagree with. I'm pretty sure you have a picture of me on your wall somewhere, hopefully with clothes on for both our sakes.

You're schtick is old. End it. No one cares about your personal vendetta. No one.

[cblaz11]

Not to change gears lol…but where is Patterson from ND? Early on I saw he was a 2nd rd prospect…

[Moriarty]

Not to change gears lol…but where is Patterson from ND? Early on I saw he was a 2nd rd prospect…

He had a disappointing, below average Combine.


However, he was pretty comparable to John Schmitz, who, inexplicably, has not dropped and is maybe rising still.

[The Cooler King]

Not to change gears lol…but where is Patterson from ND? Early on I saw he was a 2nd rd prospect…

Please, do change gears to literally anything else

[dplank]

Not to change gears lol…but where is Patterson from ND? Early on I saw he was a 2nd rd prospect…

Please, do change gears to literally anything else

You know you want that picture bill....