Injuries & Other Mysteries: a 2023 thread

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The Marshall Plan wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:30 am
HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2023 9:45 pm Did not practice/Out
  • Noah Sewell (knee)

    Shame for him and his family as it was going to be his first game playing against his brother Penei. He's week-to-week so hopefully he'll be back for the rematch in a couple of weeks.

    Eberflus: "It's unfortunate. He was excited to play in the game."
Did not practice/Questionable
Is it just me or has Sewell been a real disappointment this year?

Playing alongside Edmunds and Edwards I was expecting big things from him.
Poor guy was trying to live up to Sanborn - impossible
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:30 am
HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2023 9:45 pm Did not practice/Out
  • Noah Sewell (knee)

    Shame for him and his family as it was going to be his first game playing against his brother Penei. He's week-to-week so hopefully he'll be back for the rematch in a couple of weeks.

    Eberflus: "It's unfortunate. He was excited to play in the game."
Did not practice/Questionable
Is it just me or has Sewell been a real disappointment this year?

Playing alongside Edmunds and Edwards I was expecting big things from him.

I was expecting nothing.
He has 3 starters ahead of him, on a team that mostly only uses 2.
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:30 am
HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2023 9:45 pm Did not practice/Out
  • Noah Sewell (knee)

    Shame for him and his family as it was going to be his first game playing against his brother Penei. He's week-to-week so hopefully he'll be back for the rematch in a couple of weeks.

    Eberflus: "It's unfortunate. He was excited to play in the game."
Did not practice/Questionable
Is it just me or has Sewell been a real disappointment this year?

Playing alongside Edmunds and Edwards I was expecting big things from him.
He's really only getting snaps in run situations right now. He had 10 snaps against the saints, that was his high water mark. 2 against the chargers. No defensive snaps against the panthers, interestingly we never had more than 2 LB's on the field that entire game. (Kyler was out for 100% of snaps)

It seems obvious that this defense is by far hardest on linebackers, they're almost set up to fail really if they dont have superhuman instincts.

If anyone is interested in peaking through the snap counts:
https://www.footballguys.com/stats/snap ... &year=2023

also, regarding Kyler:

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Sewell has done OK - he's a fifth round rookie, learning the game and getting the occasional apperance in a game. LB is a difficult position to master in the NFL, particularly when you have to play a soft zone like the Bears.

Good to see this being used properly: "He's been champing at the bit to play." It's not "chomping".
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Rusty Trombagent wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 10:56 am
also, regarding Kyler:

Is that a personal opinion or a metric, and if so, what?
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Moriarty wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:00 pm
Rusty Trombagent wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 10:56 am
also, regarding Kyler:

Is that a personal opinion or a metric, and if so, what?
https://www.nfl.com/news/top-10-slot-de ... rules-incr

According to next gen stats.

Coverage Score: 77
Pass Rush Score: 83
Tackle Score: 74
SLOT OVERALL SCORE: 80
Gordon led all Bears defensive backs in playtime last season (79.4% of defensive snaps) and he has stepped into an even bigger role this season with his slot snap rate increasing from 43.9 percent to 73.6. The second-year pro out of Washington has heeded the call, as his 5.0 yards per target allowed on slot targets is the fifth-best figure among all defenders (min. 15 slot targets).
But like Trent McDuffie, Gordon is a viable threat as a pass rusher. His five pressures are second-most among all defenders from a slot alignment (and tied for third-most among all cornerbacks), leading to the second-highest pass rush score (83) on this list.


I dont look at stuff like this as gospel of course, more of just a baseline "is he playing well or not playing well?" I think it carries a bit more weight though than "TJ Edwards is a tackling machine!" type stuff.
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First injury report for the Vikings MNF game:

Did not practice
  • Larry Borom (illness)
  • Noah Sewell (knee)
Limited
  • D'Onta Foreman (ankle/shin)
Full participants
  • Lucas Patrick (back)
  • Khari Blasingame (shoulder)
Looks like Patrick will back at center in place of Freeney.
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Nice. Healthy group, let’s effing win one eh?
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HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Fri Nov 24, 2023 4:48 pm First injury report for the Vikings MNF game:

Did not practice
  • Larry Borom (illness)
  • Noah Sewell (knee)
Limited
  • D'Onta Foreman (ankle/shin)
Full participants
  • Lucas Patrick (back)
  • Khari Blasingame (shoulder)
Looks like Patrick will back at center in place of Freeney.
Don't worry, if there is one thing Lucas excels at, it's getting hurt.
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HurricaneBear wrote: Fri Nov 24, 2023 5:55 pm
HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Fri Nov 24, 2023 4:48 pm First injury report for the Vikings MNF game:

Did not practice
  • Larry Borom (illness)
  • Noah Sewell (knee)
Limited
  • D'Onta Foreman (ankle/shin)
Full participants
  • Lucas Patrick (back)
  • Khari Blasingame (shoulder)
Looks like Patrick will back at center in place of Freeney.
Don't worry, if there is one thing Lucas excels at, it's getting hurt.
Still think Patrick is a double cheesehead agent, sent to guide Getsy into throwing more monkey wrenches into the Bears comeback to prominence. Play Feeney!
San Francisco has always been my favorite booing city. I don't mean the people boo louder or longer, but there is a very special intimacy. Music, that's what it is to me. One time in Kezar Stadium they gave me a standing boo.

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HisRoyalSweetness
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Out
Noah Sewell (knee)

Doubtful
D'Onta Foreman (ankle/shin)
Larry Borom (illness)

The Sun Times is reporting that Tyrique Stevenson hurt his ankle in Saturday’s practice and is questionable. After his game against the Lions it would be a shame if he can't play on Monday. Terell Smith will take his place if he's not good to go, which would give us a chance to see how another rookie gets on.

Other than that, the Bears are in surprisingly good health this late in the season and they haven't even had their bye week yet.
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If they don't play Monday that will give them three weeks off to get more healed up and better recovered.

Bye comes at a good time for Bears.
No matter how you try to box him in, whatever realistic scenario you propose to build around him is going to include the fashion aspect(s) of Caleb's dramatic personality.
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spudbear wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 1:13 pm Sewell has done OK - he's a fifth round rookie, learning the game and getting the occasional apperance in a game. LB is a difficult position to master in the NFL, particularly when you have to play a soft zone like the Bears.

Good to see this being used properly: "He's been champing at the bit to play." It's not "chomping".
I would have called balderdash on that, but it appears you are correct.

https://www.npr.org/sections/memmos/201 ... r-champing

It does appear "chomping" has become accepted but technically not correct. I've said it wrong my whole life. :frustrated: - but I was born and raised in Arkansas, so that may be WAY down the list of things done wrong by me. :D :D
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Arkansasbear wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 1:57 pm
spudbear wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 1:13 pm Sewell has done OK - he's a fifth round rookie, learning the game and getting the occasional apperance in a game. LB is a difficult position to master in the NFL, particularly when you have to play a soft zone like the Bears.

Good to see this being used properly: "He's been champing at the bit to play." It's not "chomping".
I would have called balderdash on that, but it appears you are correct.

https://www.npr.org/sections/memmos/201 ... r-champing

It does appear "chomping" has become accepted but technically not correct. I've said it wrong my whole life. :frustrated: - but I was born and raised in Arkansas, so that may be WAY down the list of things done wrong by me. :D :D
Don't worry about it Arkansasbear, you Americans have always struggled with the King's English. ;)
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"A thousand fires were burning there on the plain
and beside each fire sat fifty fighting men
poised in the leaping blaze, and champing oats
and glistening barley, stationed by their chariots,
stallions waited for Dawn to mount her glowing throne."

From The Iliad, Book VIII. The Tide of Battle Turns

Translated by Robert Fagles
No matter how you try to box him in, whatever realistic scenario you propose to build around him is going to include the fashion aspect(s) of Caleb's dramatic personality.
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pus wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 6:10 pm "A thousand fires were burning there on the plain
and beside each fire sat fifty fighting men
poised in the leaping blaze, and champing oats
and glistening barley, stationed by their chariots,
stallions waited for Dawn to mount her glowing throne."

From The Iliad, Book VIII. The Tide of Battle Turns

Translated by Robert Fagles
🫡
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Positive news on the injuries that occurred before and during the Vikings game...
  • Teven Jenkins came out after the field goal attempt because of what he called a particularly nasty stinger.
    “I’ve had bad ones and barely-there ones. That was more on the bad side.”
  • In an interview with Mully & Haugh on 670 The Score DJ Moore explained why he came out after his big catch at the end of the game:
    "I'm feeling great... I'm doing great. That wasn't no big hit at the end, somebody had just pulled my leg so it was a little sore."
  • Kyler Gordon said he expects to be ready to play in Week 14 after hurting his calf in coverage in the fourth quarter.
    “It’ll be cool.”
  • Eberflus said he expects Tyrique Stevenson to return this season from his ankle injury, but didn’t offer a more specific timeline.
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Very positive, thanks HRS
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I want Stevenson back out there, he's looked so good. But man, Terrell Smith has really looked good also. What a draft for Poles! Wright, Stevenson, Smith, Dexter, and Roschon all look like big pieces going forward for us.
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dplank wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2023 2:10 pm I want Stevenson back out there, he's looked so good. But man, Terrell Smith has really looked good also. What a draft for Poles! Wright, Stevenson, Smith, Dexter, and Roschon all look like big pieces going forward for us.
Yep, the man can pick 'em. Throw in Gordon, Brisker, and Jones from '22 and he's added several great pieces.

Heck Hicks and Gill with 7th round picks warrant mentioning from '22 as well. Pickens and Scott have showed some promise and Sewell plays well on special teams.

So that gives him 11 picks he's made in the first 5 rounds and only Jones appears to be a completely wasted pick. Then you can add in Carter as a depth piece from the last 2 rounds which give him 3 players in those rounds who have contributed to some degree as well.
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Oh god not Gill, he’s turrible
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dplank wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2023 2:41 pm Oh god not Gill, he’s turrible
Hicks ain't no great shakes either. And that's coming from someone who was happy the Bears drafted him. He's been passable in ST coverage but two steps slow any time he sees the field on defense.

Making the team is not the same as contributing. (See also: Jones Jr, Velus.)
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dplank wrote:I agree with Rich here
RichH55 wrote: Dplank is correct
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dplank wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2023 2:41 pm Oh god not Gill, he’s turrible
It's a 7th round pick that gets you a punter. Sure we need to upgrade the position, last year his net average was just shy of 41 yards so he was about 2 yards shy of being average. I hadn't realized how bad he's been this year. It's at 36 yards!!!!!!!! Yikes.

But when talking about the 255 pick of the draft I'd still say that a push. You get a guy to fill a spot that needs filling and he's not killing you.
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thunderspirit wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2023 2:53 pm
dplank wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2023 2:41 pm Oh god not Gill, he’s turrible
Hicks ain't no great shakes either. And that's coming from someone who was happy the Bears drafted him. He's been passable in ST coverage but two steps slow any time he sees the field on defense.

Making the team is not the same as contributing. (See also: Jones Jr, Velus.)
Sure but getting a guy that can hold down a ST spot with a 7th round pick is a win for that pick. His play on defense isn't that good for sure. Jones made the roster after a 3rd round pick was spent on him. Hicks contributes on special teams and we used a 7th round pick on him. Value wise Hicks is a better value.
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Arkansasbear wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2023 2:32 pm Pickens and Scott have showed some promise and Sewell plays well on special teams.
Pickens and Scott haven't done much of anything in all honesty.

It's harder to judge Pickens because of his position and being part of a rotation, but he has just half a sack and 2 pressures to go with 7 solo tackles and 9 assists.

Scott has 10 catches on 20 targets for 81 yards in 12 games, which is really not evidence of showing promise. Of course it doesn't help playing on a team where even the WR2 can't get targets and catches.

There's a long way to go for either player to be judged successful picks.
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HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2023 5:12 pm
Arkansasbear wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2023 2:32 pm Pickens and Scott have showed some promise and Sewell plays well on special teams.
Pickens and Scott haven't done much of anything in all honesty.

It's harder to judge Pickens because of his position and being part of a rotation, but he has just half a sack and 2 pressures to go with 7 solo tackles and 9 assists.

Scott has 10 catches on 20 targets for 81 yards in 12 games, which is really not evidence of showing promise. Of course it doesn't help playing on a team where even the WR2 can't get targets and catches.

There's a long way to go for either player to be judged successful picks.
Again it's the whole subject word thing. Pickens has been factoring into the rotation and being relied on, his snap counts seems to have wide swings from time to time, but the team is relying on him to play and he's getting destroyed every time he's out there. So that's showing some promise.

Scott hasn't done much I admit, but he's in the role of the 3rd WR on a team that doesn't do much in the passing game. So he' chipping in to a small degree so again "some promise."

Was just trying to establish a difference between those guys and Jones. Jones has pretty much show he has no shot at helping the team down the road (or now for that matter). Those two guys have at least done something that allows there to be hope on them.

Hope that clears up what I was trying to point out. He isn't drafting guys that by the end of their first year you can clearly say they have no business being on an NFL roster. I feel much better about his first two draft classes at this point in time than I did about Pace's first 2 classes at the end of his second year at the helm.

2015
1- White - Hated the pick day one until he was gone
2. - Goldman - Loved the pick and for the first two year thought he would be special
3. Grasu - loved the pick at the time faded instantly
4.. Langford - Didn't like it at the time but his first year was okay, but faded year two when Howard got here
5. Amos - loved the pick and played well during the period in question
2015
1. Floyd - hated the pick and never showed he was worth it while hear
2. Whitehair - was luck warm on the pick but that first year was promising
3. Bullard - loved the pick but never saw anything from him, maybe Pickens is just a clone and I have my hopes set to high
4. Kwaitoski - Don't recall how I viewed it but I don't recall him standing out much that first year
4b. Bush - Special teams only
4c. Hall - Special teams only
5. Howard - took over the starting job and felt good about him moving forward

Maybe it just because Pace set the bar so low, but comparing their first two years based upon what the players did during that time, Pace is winning big time.
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Arkansasbear wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2023 5:42 pm
Again it's the whole subject word thing. Pickens has been factoring into the rotation and being relied on, his snap counts seems to have wide swings from time to time, but the team is relying on him to play and he's getting destroyed every time he's out there. So that's showing some promise.

Scott hasn't done much I admit, but he's in the role of the 3rd WR on a team that doesn't do much in the passing game. So he' chipping in to a small degree so again "some promise."

Was just trying to establish a difference between those guys and Jones. Jones has pretty much show he has no shot at helping the team down the road (or now for that matter). Those two guys have at least done something that allows there to be hope on them.

Hope that clears up what I was trying to point out. He isn't drafting guys that by the end of their first year you can clearly say they have no business being on an NFL roster. I feel much better about his first two draft classes at this point in time than I did about Pace's first 2 classes at the end of his second year at the helm.

2015
1- White - Hated the pick day one until he was gone
2. - Goldman - Loved the pick and for the first two year thought he would be special
3. Grasu - loved the pick at the time faded instantly
4.. Langford - Didn't like it at the time but his first year was okay, but faded year two when Howard got here
5. Amos - loved the pick and played well during the period in question
2015
1. Floyd - hated the pick and never showed he was worth it while hear
2. Whitehair - was luck warm on the pick but that first year was promising
3. Bullard - loved the pick but never saw anything from him, maybe Pickens is just a clone and I have my hopes set to high

4. Kwaitoski - Don't recall how I viewed it but I don't recall him standing out much that first year
4b. Bush - Special teams only
4c. Hall - Special teams only
5. Howard - took over the starting job and felt good about him moving forward

Maybe it just because Pace set the bar so low, but comparing their first two years based upon what the players did during that time, Pace is winning big time.
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I think you're looking at things with a combination of recency bias and whether you liked a pick at the time Arkanasbear.

Goldman had a good run with the Bears, people seemed happy for Pace to move on from Forte because of Langford's rookie year (although I hated the move - 3.7 ypc hardly proved he was ready to replace a RB of Forte's calibre) and Amos was an excellent SS who started for 8 years and is still playing in his 9th albeit as a backup/special-teamer.

Floyd may not have produced at the level we wanted in Chicago (although he always did well against the hated Packers), but he's been very productive since with 9 or more sacks every year (including 9.5 already this season), Whitehair started every game of his career until two weeks ago, Bullard is still playing as we saw against the Vikings, Kwiatkoski played for 7 years, Bush did too and is now on the Chiefs' practice squad and Howard was very productive in Chicago and put up solid number for the Eagles too.

It's much too early to judge Poles' first two draft classes. One thing he has done is acquire a lot more picks than Pace had. Some of his players have made solid starts to their careers although none are standing out as blue-chip ones yet. We'll have to see how their careers pan out.

Assigning "some promise" to those who have done very little thus far whilst dismissing those drafted by Pace who did as much if not more in their first year or two (and in a lot of cases went on to have careers that extended several years beyond their rookie deals) just seems to be overegging your assessment at this point.
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HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2023 6:27 pm I think you're looking at things with a combination of recency bias and whether you liked a pick at the time Arkanasbear.

Goldman had a good run with the Bears, people seemed happy for Pace to move on from Forte because of Langford's rookie year (although I hated the move - 3.7 ypc hardly proved he was ready to replace a RB of Forte's calibre) and Amos was an excellent SS who started for 8 years and is still playing in his 9th albeit as a backup/special-teamer.

Floyd may not have produced at the level we wanted in Chicago (although he always did well against the hated Packers), but he's been very productive since with 9 or more sacks every year (including 9.5 already this season), Whitehair started every game of his career until two weeks ago, Bullard is still playing as we saw against the Vikings, Kwiatkoski played for 7 years, Bush did too and is now on the Chiefs' practice squad and Howard was very productive in Chicago and put up solid number for the Eagles too.

It's much too early to judge Poles' first two draft classes. One thing he has done is acquire a lot more picks than Pace had. Some of his players have made solid starts to their careers although none are standing out as blue-chip ones yet. We'll have to see how their careers pan out.

Assigning "some promise" to those who have done very little thus far whilst dismissing those drafted by Pace who did as much if not more in their first year or two (and in a lot of cases went on to have careers that extended several years beyond their rookie deals) just seems to be overegging your assessment at this point.
But that's not what I'm trying to do. The guys you are mentioning have all had productive careers. We have no idea what the careers of the guys Pole has taken in the first two years will be. So I'm doing my best to get a feeling for what I think of Pole's first two draft classes right now, calling up Peabody and using the WABC Machine, and go back in time and recall my view of Pace's first two draft classes at the same time. (What's my view of Pole's first two classes compared to how I veiwed Pace's first two classes in 2016)

I think I feel better about Pole's picks right now than I did about Pace's picks after he was on the job for two years. Yeah many were very high on Lankford year one and thinking "he could be good," but by the end of year 2 that ship had sailed and he was viewed as a nothing.

I could have some recency bias I admit, but it's likely that I just don't recall how the exact level of confidence I had in them 8 years ago. But it also shows doing evaluations this early don't mean a ton.

Like I said I had high hopes for Goldman. I thought he would be producing at an Aaron Donald type level for years. He was very good but never the guy I thought he would turn out to be.
Last edited by Arkansasbear on Thu Nov 30, 2023 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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I think the fact that people are nitpicking a 7th round punter over the entirety of the successful picks really sheds a lot of light on all of the Fields arguments lately.
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