Draft Season is Already Upon Us

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Rusty Trombagent
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dplank wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 9:59 am
Rusty Trombagent wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 7:30 am

When was the last player that everyone was hand-waving over them being "too slight" that actually turned out to be too slight?

This always feels like lazy "I looked at the numbers and I came up with a negative" kind of scouting.
The way the game is officiated now, you can be very small and still play. The height thing matters a bit more as it's just harder for those guys to throw from a dirty pocket.
100% agree
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Heinz D. wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 10:20 am
The Marshall Plan wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 10:03 am My gut tells me that Poles keeps JF1 or that if we move on from JF1 it'll be with a trade down pick or our organic one at 8.

That perpetual annuity Poles can setup by trading down out of the 1 hoping it's a similar story next year is just too juicy to pass up.

I do think JF1 is the QB next year.
Totally disagree.

Shameless plug--you should go vote in my thread. ;) :D

In it, I detail how if Williams turns out to be as good as most folks think he will, and Fields has another season like this one, then Poles will end up being fired and won't be a GM ever again. I don't think he'll take that risk.

And if they're gonna draft a QB, why on earth would they trade down, or take one at #8?
What happens if Williams doesn't pan out and Fields turns into a super star after being traded? I actually think the chances of that are higher than what you suggested. Heck, Williams backup just threw for 6 TDs in the bowl game. Coaching matters and supporting player matter. I think what Williams has related to those is greater than what Fields has (in regards to players, I'm comparing talent on the team vs talent they are playing. Not implying that USC has more talent than than the Bears, merely there is a bigger gap between then and who they play vs the Bears and who they play).
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Arkansasbear wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 1:14 pm What happens if Williams doesn't pan out and Fields turns into a super star after being traded? I actually think the chances of that are higher than what you suggested.
But, is that more likely to occur than the opposite?
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Heinz D. wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 1:22 pm
Arkansasbear wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 1:14 pm What happens if Williams doesn't pan out and Fields turns into a super star after being traded? I actually think the chances of that are higher than what you suggested.
But, is that more likely to occur than the opposite?
Maybe. I've started watching more of Williams and I"m not as high on him as I was before. Could very well be my homerism that had me still believing Fields can be truly great. I'm glad I'm not the one making the call and hope that whatever Poles does he nails it.
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IMHO, regarding the QB situation, Poles is in a unique postion. He’s in a no-win and at the same time no-lose scenario.
The debate is so polarised he will be an idiot to some and a guru to others.
With this in mind he has a greater degree of freedom as the outcome is inevitable.

For me, everyone knows that I’m on ‘team Justin’. However, if Poles moves on from him, I wish him well, but I’ll back Poles and whomever the new man under center is.

My loyalty is with the Bears first and foremost.
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Heinz D. wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 1:22 pm
Arkansasbear wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 1:14 pm What happens if Williams doesn't pan out and Fields turns into a super star after being traded? I actually think the chances of that are higher than what you suggested.
But, is that more likely to occur than the opposite?
Of course that will happen, these are the Bears.
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What happens to Penix if a game should go 4 hrs,,

Blue tent or right to hospital..?
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It hasn’t happened yet - not with McNown, Grossman or Trubisky


Grizzled wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 6:23 pm
Heinz D. wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 1:22 pm

But, is that more likely to occur than the opposite?
Of course that will happen, these are the Bears.
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artbest01 wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 6:16 am It hasn’t happened yet - not with McNown, Grossman or Trubisky


Grizzled wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 6:23 pm

Of course that will happen, these are the Bears.
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I think Poles might surprise alot of people - Trade Fields AND the #1
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Ditka’s dictaphone wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 3:11 pm IMHO, regarding the QB situation, Poles is in a unique postion. He’s in a no-win and at the same time no-lose scenario.
The debate is so polarised he will be an idiot to some and a guru to others.
With this in mind he has a greater degree of freedom as the outcome is inevitable.

For me, everyone knows that I’m on ‘team Justin’. However, if Poles moves on from him, I wish him well, but I’ll back Poles and whomever the new man under center is.

My loyalty is with the Bears first and foremost.
i think some of it depends on what poles could get for fields. if he could get a first then justin is gone.. anything less and i think he stays with justin and fleeces atlanta ( and pace :evilgrin: ) for 3 firsts and some change and keeps building a steam roller for the next decade.
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otis wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 10:04 am
Ditka’s dictaphone wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 3:11 pm IMHO, regarding the QB situation, Poles is in a unique postion. He’s in a no-win and at the same time no-lose scenario.
The debate is so polarised he will be an idiot to some and a guru to others.
With this in mind he has a greater degree of freedom as the outcome is inevitable.

For me, everyone knows that I’m on ‘team Justin’. However, if Poles moves on from him, I wish him well, but I’ll back Poles and whomever the new man under center is.

My loyalty is with the Bears first and foremost.
i think some of it depends on what poles could get for fields. if he could get a first then justin is gone.. anything less and i think he stays with justin and fleeces atlanta ( and pace :evilgrin: ) for 3 firsts and some change and keeps building a steam roller for the next decade.
I dont think the Bears could get a 1st for him,a very low 1st,but those teams usually have a qb.......
I do believe there are teams thhat would give up a hi 2nd and some change tho......
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SF traded 2021 1-12 for 1-3, 2022 1-29 and 3-101, and 20231-29 to take Trey Lance. Going only off the Draftek Trade Chart, the Bears #1 in ‘24 should be worth ( going by only teams I think might be interested):
WA: 1-3, 2-35, and 3-67
NE: 1-4, 2-36, 3-68 and 2025 1st/2nd rounder
Giants: 1-5, 2-37, 3-69, 2025 1st/2nd rounder
ATL: 1-10, 2-42, 2025 1st, 2026 1st
LAR: 1-13, 2-45, 2025 1st, 2026 1st
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Wonder if there's any way we could trade out of Williams, and still end up with both Brock Bowers and MHJ?


You'd essentially have the ultimate offense at that point regardless of QB.
Kmet's on a reasonable deal and is a good blocker, so I don't think that'd preclude drafting a receiving weapon TE.
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Burl wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 2:26 pm Wonder if there's any way we could trade out of Williams, and still end up with both Brock Bowers and MHJ?


You'd essentially have the ultimate offense at that point regardless of QB.
Kmet's on a reasonable deal and is a good blocker, so I don't think that'd preclude drafting a receiving weapon TE.
I think the problem is AZ will be at two and they will be eyeing MHJ. So I think the only way it happens is we trade down to 3 with NE or Washington. They take Williams. We'd then need someone to move up to 2 with AZ to take QB. Bowers could slide down to our pick possibly.
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dplank wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 9:05 am
artbest01 wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 6:16 am It hasn’t happened yet - not with McNown, Grossman or Trubisky



As irrelevant as “Ohio State QBs aren’t good pro’s” ~ CJ Stroud

That makes one good (for the moment and probably longer) QB from OSU since....................................
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Otis Day wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 2:49 pm
dplank wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 9:05 am

As irrelevant as “Ohio State QBs aren’t good pro’s” ~ CJ Stroud

That makes one good (for the moment and probably longer) QB from OSU since....................................
………….Justin Fields!
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dplank wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 2:53 pm
Otis Day wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 2:49 pm


That makes one good (for the moment and probably longer) QB from OSU since....................................
………….Justin Fields!
Well played
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Was reading the Russell Wilson trade to the Bears comments awhile back and OMG.... People were willing to give up 3 1s, including a player for Wilson. This team would be set back at least to the 1950s if that trade happened.

With takes like that, how can anybody on this board act like their current opinion on the QB issue is more right than anybody else's? It's the reason I think this whole QB debate is not only a waste of energy, but insane (especially cuz it repeats every 4 years or so).

That's why I say having an opinion is ok, but don't get so tied up in it that you look at others opinions as less than.

Ps. Thank God Ryan Poles and not Ryan Pace is running the football ops now. I will be riding shotgun with whichever decision he makes this off-season and until he royally screws the pooch
Last edited by Hema2.0 on Fri Dec 29, 2023 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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I don't know that that's a germane analogy. The premise was that Justin Fields is bound to be great somewhere else because that's what "the Bears" do. The premise is, to date, false. Every 1st round QB the Bears have given up on has fizzled after leaving Chicago. The latest, Mitchell Trubisky, may struggle to be on a NFL roster next season.
dplank wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 9:05 am
artbest01 wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 6:16 am It hasn’t happened yet - not with McNown, Grossman or Trubisky



As irrelevant as “Ohio State QBs aren’t good pro’s” ~ CJ Stroud
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FWIW, Trevor Lawrence is OUT for the Jags game against the suddenly "resurgent" Panthers. The #1 pick is far from secure....
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artbest01 wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 4:40 pm FWIW, Trevor Lawrence is OUT for the Jags game against the suddenly "resurgent" Panthers. The #1 pick is far from secure....
Ugh
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RichH55 wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 4:43 pm
artbest01 wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 4:40 pm FWIW, Trevor Lawrence is OUT for the Jags game against the suddenly "resurgent" Panthers. The #1 pick is far from secure....
Ugh
2nd'd. Beathard has to ball out. 1 thing I like is that he has been the backup for 3 years so he should be familiar with Pedersons offense.
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Hypothetically, if the Panthers win out and Arizona, NE, and Washington lose out, based on SOS, the Panthers pick could drop to 4. The Jags have to win to have a chance at the playoffs so I'm hoping that with home field puts them over the top of Carolina.
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artbest01 wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 4:38 pm I don't know that that's a germane analogy. The premise was that Justin Fields is bound to be great somewhere else because that's what "the Bears" do. The premise is, to date, false. Every 1st round QB the Bears have given up on has fizzled after leaving Chicago. The latest, Mitchell Trubisky, may struggle to be on a NFL roster next season.
I wasn’t defending the premise, which is equally wrong. I was against the come back which used the same flawed logic. The old “two dumbs don’t make a smart” type logic.
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Hell, the Lions traded away Stamford and he won a SB with the Rams . So did Lions fans comment ‘because Lions’ on their boards afterwards? Probably.
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Lions got a nice haul for Stafford, so I’m guessing they were fine with how it turned out

Grizzled wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 6:07 pm Hell, the Lions traded away Stamford and he won a SB with the Rams . So did Lions fans comment ‘because Lions’ on their boards afterwards? Probably.
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artbest01 wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 6:20 pm Lions got a nice haul for Stafford, so I’m guessing they were fine with how it turned out

Grizzled wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 6:07 pm Hell, the Lions traded away Stamford and he won a SB with the Rams . So did Lions fans comment ‘because Lions’ on their boards afterwards? Probably.
The Lions gave up a premium QB, that rarest of things in the NFL. But the team used the draft picks to build up the team, put in an offensive system maximizing Goff's strengths (what a novel idea), and are now competing for the NFC championship.
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Grizzled wrote: Sat Dec 30, 2023 8:25 am
artbest01 wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 6:20 pm Lions got a nice haul for Stafford, so I’m guessing they were fine with how it turned out


The Lions gave up a premium QB, that rarest of things in the NFL. But the team used the draft picks to build up the team, put in an offensive system maximizing Goff's strengths (what a novel idea), and are now competing for the NFC championship.
Then the 49'ers take Brock Purdy. Surround him with CMC, Deebo, Kittle, a great HC and a franchise LT.

Or Jalen Hurts at the Eagles with that defense, AJ Brown, Devonta Smith, and D'Andre Swift.

But no, not in Chicago, let's just draft a QB every 3 years, bitch when he isn't Tom Brady, and keep replacing him because all we know how to do is sit and complain.
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Sat Dec 30, 2023 8:59 am
Grizzled wrote: Sat Dec 30, 2023 8:25 am

The Lions gave up a premium QB, that rarest of things in the NFL. But the team used the draft picks to build up the team, put in an offensive system maximizing Goff's strengths (what a novel idea), and are now competing for the NFC championship.
Then the 49'ers take Brock Purdy. Surround him with CMC, Deebo, Kittle, a great HC and a franchise LT.

Or Jalen Hurts at the Eagles with that defense, AJ Brown, Devonta Smith, and D'Andre Swift.

But no, not in Chicago, let's just draft a QB every 3 years, bitch when he isn't Tom Brady, and keep replacing him because all we know how to do is sit and complain.
This is it right here and captures my disgust with a large segment of the fan base. Bitch bitch bitch, troll your QB every week win or lose, go out of your way to purposefully strip context to spin things negatively. Why in the heck do people behave this way? Like, what enjoyment do you get out of making other people as miserable as you are? Does that somehow bring them joy?
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