Warren and Poles vs Flus and Getsy

[Noots]

After seeing how weird the offense has been...and I mean discombobulated, I heard on the radio that you wonder if JF1 might feel like he wants to get the heck outtta this disaster. I even heard Olin Kreutz say on the pregame they may as well keep Bagent in there b/c they want a QB to fit their system rather than fit it to JF1.

I have a lot of mixed feelings on this. I want SOMEONE to break through. I don't care which guy.

If all of the above is really true and not conjecture, then christ, They should fire the whole effing coaching staff right now, in season. The laughable part for me though, is that the coaching staff is soooo bad, they're probably going to also make Bagent look bad b/c they don't know how to do that right even when he supposedly is the better fit. That end around bullcrap on the first series to the punt returner. The deep ball for VJJ--why is it him and not Moore, Mooney or Scott? I can't even figure out why VJJ should still be on the roster right now--he made TWO STUPID plays on special teams. Taking so many carries away from Foreman for the rookie in his first game back after concussion. The overreliance on shotguns including for short yardage.

It was my opinion, because I'd heard it stated, that JF1 prefers shotgun to direct snaps, and that's why we see so much of it, crappy snaps from Whitehair and all. But now that we've seen Bagent Orange in there for a couple of weeks, there really isn't much difference between under center vs shotgun %, at least from what I'm observing (I haven't counted it).

Bagent has managed to only get sacked like 3 times in 80 attempts, and JF1 has been sacked 24 times in 160 ish attempts. I don't need to have a degree in advanced quantitative methods to see the difference there, and we all see it with our eyes. They've had all this time with Justin and somehow he doesn't appear to be getting any better at getting rid of the ball. He knows the offense better this year, so he's playing better on the whole because he better knows where his receivers are--nobody can dispute this. It's there. So why can't we see games like the Denver and Washington ones every week? What the hell happened to him vs Minnesota?

I do know, that if you want to stop a guy from rolling out, you blitz off the edge. Minnesota sent everyone and we were confounded. But you can still beat those plays. If you block them up, at all, you can break a tackle and go a long way. Anyway, teams do adjust to trying to roll out all the time. It's not always going to be there. So what are we gonna see happen? Is there still improvement we're going to see in JF1, even under this current staff, and do we think it's enough and do we have the time and money to continue this odyssey?

What happens here?

Keep Fields and Bagent and sign/draft more OL/DL/skill players while continuing to develop them....with this same coaching staff, a different coaching staff?

Keep Fields and Bagent and also take a top QB prospect? Coaching staff same/different?

Eff it--start all over at QB, Draft a guy and let JF1 walk so someone else might be able to make it work out for him?

I don't know but I have to think the minimal amount of patience that I have left is probably going to be similar to what Poles/Warren have. I think there are changes coming. Big ones. I can't see those guys at the top being too patient right now, because I believe in their heart of hearts, they felt this team was going to be more competitive this year, albeit not a perfect roster. Heck, how many of us wanted to bet the OVER in Vegas before the season started on how many wins. What was that number? 7, give or take a hook? That really looks to be miles and miles away right now.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

Get Harbaugh in and see what he can do with this shitshow.
If he can’t get a tune out of Fields, trade him at the end of the season and use your draft capital to get Harbaugh a QB.

I’ve zero confidence in Flus or his coaching staff. I don’t see the point in keeping them, I’ve more faith that the players can improve than Flus and his merry men.

[wab]

Get Harbaugh in and see what he can do with this shitshow.
If he can’t get a tune out of Fields, trade him at the end of the season and use your draft capital to get Harbaugh a QB.

I’ve zero confidence in Flus or his coaching staff. I don’t see the point in keeping them, I’ve more faith that the players can improve than Flus and his merry men.

Well the issue with this is that you have to decide if you are going to pick up the 5th year option on Fields. If you don’t then you aren’t going to be able to trade him because he’s going to walk as a FA unless he’s franchised. And that’s a whole different can of problems.

I’m certain Poles expected to still be in the rebuild process this season, but that there would be improvements, and that the team would look like they were on an upward trajectory.

They are not. Quite the opposite in fact.

I think the staff is fired and they let the new coach decide if they can work with Fields or if they want their own guy.

[UOK]

I think the staff is fired and they let the new coach decide if they can work with Fields or if they want their own guy.

Sounds right. What really sucks is that there's a few fatass contracts on defense that are extremely unwelcoming to a guy who wants a 3-4.

[The Marshall Plan]

I think the staff is fired and they let the new coach decide if they can work with Fields or if they want their own guy.

Sounds right. What really sucks is that there's a few fatass contracts on defense that are extremely unwelcoming to a guy who wants a 3-4.

I'd kill to go back to a 3-4. The nice thing is that the DL is so bad who cares if you have to make a bunch of replacements to do it?

There's an argument to be made that keeping JF1, even with this season, is still the way to go.

Imagine being able to keep both of those first rounders, plus the second rounder and $100M in cap space and not need a QB.

Right now we have the 2 and 3 overall. MHJ and Fashanu would change that whole offense.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

The coaching staff is 100% the problem. I get that Poles has missed on some trades and draft picks, but I think he is assembling a young athletic team, and has compiled draft capital and cap space. The coaches have done NOTHING productive with anything they have been given, in fact I would say that they have regressed from last year to this. Unfortunately as I said on another thread. The McCaskey's will never greenlight a controversial head coaching hire in the pursuit of winning. That's just not who they are.

[wab]

I think the staff is fired and they let the new coach decide if they can work with Fields or if they want their own guy.

Sounds right. What really sucks is that there's a few fatass contracts on defense that are extremely unwelcoming to a guy who wants a 3-4.

Really it’s just Edmunds. I think Edwards and Sanborn would be fine inside, but they can get out of Edwards’ contract super easy if they want.

Walker has actually played in a 3-4 most of his career. So has Green (even though he’s a FA after the season).

Pickens and Dexter seem like they have the profile to fit in the 3-4.

They need a nose, but maybe Billings can handle that? There’s probably some FA dudes you could look at too.

There’s no edge rushers though, unless they think they can finally squeeze something out of DomRob. But I guess it’s not like the Bears are brimming with pass rushers anyway.

Edmunds has been pretty effective blitzing, so maybe they’d move him to the edge? He’s certainly built for it.

I think it would be actually be fairly easy to go back to the 3-4.

[Moriarty]

Sounds right. What really sucks is that there's a few fatass contracts on defense that are extremely unwelcoming to a guy who wants a 3-4.

Really it’s just Edmunds. I think Edwards and Sanborn would be fine inside, but they can get out of Edwards’ contract super easy if they want.

Walker has actually played in a 3-4 most of his career. So has Green (even though he’s a FA after the season).

Pickens and Dexter seem like they have the profile to fit in the 3-4.

They need a nose, but maybe Billings can handle that? There’s probably some FA dudes you could look at too.

There’s no edge rushers though, unless they think they can finally squeeze something out of DomRob. But I guess it’s not like the Bears are brimming with pass rushers anyway.

Edmunds has been pretty effective blitzing, so maybe they’d move him to the edge? He’s certainly built for it.

I think it would be actually be fairly easy to go back to the 3-4.

Pickens and Dexter are the wildcards, IMO.
Not sure how they'd fit.
I'm guessing Dexter would be fine and Pickens meh...but that's also how I peg them in 43, too, so...just higher uncertainty.

The thing I like about 34 is it's easier to find edge rushers in that size range.
Particularly this year, it's a bad year for edge rushers and almost all of them are too small to be good 43 fits.
Switching to 34 means you go from 1 decent edge to 0, but hopefully you could get 1 very good and 1 decent out of the draft that way. Add to a FA and you're in ok shape.

[Noots]

I think Sewell would really excel as an OLB in a 3-4. And yeah, I think both our rookie DTs look more like 3-4 DEs to me than DTs.

[artbest01]

Local Chicago media - those paid to "know" these things - are convinced that the gushing that Collinsworth and Tirico were doing over Bagent, including and especially them saying that they hope Justin watches how quickly Tyson gets the ball out of his hands, came from the coaching staff....effectively throwing, right or wrong, Justin under the proverbial bus. This followed Justin publicly calling out "coaching" as a reason for his struggles. This is looking and feeling like Jay Cutler, Aaron Kromer and Marc Trestman.

That said, I'm GUESSING that Poles wants to see how Justin performs when he returns before making any final decisions (on his QB). Eberflus and his staff are on a track to lose their jobs, barring a miraculous turnaround. The Bears fielded a team last night that wasn't ready to play - on either side of the ball.

[wab]

I think Sewell would really excel as an OLB in a 3-4. And yeah, I think both our rookie DTs look more like 3-4 DEs to me than DTs.

I like Sewell in the 3-4 too. K’Lavon Chaisson and Josh Uche are pending FAs that are underused edge rushers on their current teams. You could see if Ngakoue would want to come back for another year as a stand-up edge rusher. At this point in his career it might actually be a better fit for him because he just doesn't seem like he's getting off the ball very well.

I think Billings could handle the NT spot ok, even if he's on the short side. Or maybe Dexter is a fit there? Just depends on what version of the 3-4 the new coach wants.

[Moriarty]

Local Chicago media - those paid to "know" these things - are convinced that the gushing that Collinsworth and Tirico were doing over Bagent, including and especially them saying that they hope Justin watches how quickly Tyson gets the ball out of his hands, came from the coaching staff....effectively throwing, right or wrong, Justin under the proverbial bus. This followed Justin publicly calling out "coaching" as a reason for his struggles. This is looking and feeling like Jay Cutler, Aaron Kromer and Marc Trestman.

That said, I'm GUESSING that Poles wants to see how Justin performs when he returns before making any final decisions (on his QB). Eberflus and his staff are on a track to lose their jobs, barring a miraculous turnaround. The Bears fielded a team last night that wasn't ready to play - on either side of the ball.

I haven't listened today, so I don't know what they're basing it on.

But analysts who can recognize that QB2 is doing the things that were holding QB1 back doesn't seem particularly suspicious to me.

[wab]

I think they were just talking up the Cinderella story. The tie-in to Fields seemed naturally obvious without the need for Chicago coaches to plant anything.

[Noots]

I also feel it's a bit of them wanting to see Bagent fail. Because he wasn't drafted, he should be unathletic (it has been said several times, yet the kid ran in the 4.7s, didn't he?), or that he has a pus arm (well, Samuel was sitting on the short sideline routes). What's funny is that Bagent is now on his rookie trajectory. He's learning. It's his improvement and experience building vs how defenses counter/attack what he does/doesn't have to offer. It's just as unfair to throw him in the crapper after 2 starts as it is stupid to think he's the next Kurt Warner or even Brock Purdy.

Are the coaches out on Fields? Eberflus was pretty adamant about saying JF1 was "Our quarterback" when asked a week ago.

The laugh of it all to me is that NOW...NOW they're going to complain about how the Night football game is produced? NOW? It's been the same pre made bullshit for over 20 years now. They push a narrative. They have pre cooked stories like Julia Childs might have cakes in the oven waiting to come out. My frustration with those broadcasts has often been that they haven't been actually paying attention to the story that is unfolding on the field, even if the lead in stories are plenty ripe. Not enough balance that way. And it has been that way for decades. You're going to complain now?????

Last night's in game story should have been fully focused on Herbert, and how the Bears' D let him dissect them for like 15 straight completions to open the game. Pretty tough to combat that with a pass rush that laughably never got near him. I think Herbert weighed in after the game showing a 20 lb increase from the buffet he was eating back there in the pocket with all the time he had.

[dplank]

100% Noots. As has been the case in most of our games over the last two seasons, the defense was so pathetic that it took away any chance for success. The opposing team controls the ball and builds a huge lead at the same time, putting the offense in a terrible position and out of our game plan. Two years we’ve seen this, and it’s not on either QB it’s on Matt Eberflus. I was so hoping he had turned a corner, but last nights game was a complete embarrassment.

[dplank]

Yikes, this what you were talking about Art?

[Noots]

If the crew was actually paying attention to the story on the field, they'd also have talked about who the 2 starting Safeties were for the Bears last night. Where did they come from? Didn't they start the guy they plucked off a practice squad (Raiders--Duron Harmon?) a couple of weeks ago?

I don't think we've spent enough time talking about Eddie Jackson here this year. They really miss him. He's not worth the coin to keep around though b/c he's not able to play.

They're going to need to draft a safety again soon.

[The Marshall Plan]

Local Chicago media - those paid to "know" these things - are convinced that the gushing that Collinsworth and Tirico were doing over Bagent, including and especially them saying that they hope Justin watches how quickly Tyson gets the ball out of his hands, came from the coaching staff....effectively throwing, right or wrong, Justin under the proverbial bus. This followed Justin publicly calling out "coaching" as a reason for his struggles. This is looking and feeling like Jay Cutler, Aaron Kromer and Marc Trestman.

That said, I'm GUESSING that Poles wants to see how Justin performs when he returns before making any final decisions (on his QB). Eberflus and his staff are on a track to lose their jobs, barring a miraculous turnaround. The Bears fielded a team last night that wasn't ready to play - on either side of the ball.

The JF1 situation comes down to this.

Can JF1 be saved MENTALLY?

Physically he can do anything you want a QB to do.

Is his spirit broken? Is he mentally tough enough to handle Regime #3 in four years?

Whether JF1 was right or wrong to call out the coaching will a Jim Harbaugh type want that around?

[wab]

Local Chicago media - those paid to "know" these things - are convinced that the gushing that Collinsworth and Tirico were doing over Bagent, including and especially them saying that they hope Justin watches how quickly Tyson gets the ball out of his hands, came from the coaching staff....effectively throwing, right or wrong, Justin under the proverbial bus. This followed Justin publicly calling out "coaching" as a reason for his struggles. This is looking and feeling like Jay Cutler, Aaron Kromer and Marc Trestman.

That said, I'm GUESSING that Poles wants to see how Justin performs when he returns before making any final decisions (on his QB). Eberflus and his staff are on a track to lose their jobs, barring a miraculous turnaround. The Bears fielded a team last night that wasn't ready to play - on either side of the ball.

The JF1 situation comes down to this.

Can JF1 be saved MENTALLY?

Physically he can do anything you want a QB to do.

Is his spirit broken? Is he mentally tough enough to handle Regime #3 in four years?

Whether JF1 was right or wrong to call out the coaching will a Jim Harbaugh type want that around?

Or will a Jim Harbaugh actually coach to a player’s strengths?

[The Marshall Plan]

The JF1 situation comes down to this.

Can JF1 be saved MENTALLY?

Physically he can do anything you want a QB to do.

Is his spirit broken? Is he mentally tough enough to handle Regime #3 in four years?

Whether JF1 was right or wrong to call out the coaching will a Jim Harbaugh type want that around?

Or will a Jim Harbaugh actually coach to a player’s strengths?

That could easily be true and Harbaugh is my first choice for HC. Brian Flores is my alternate and I have no idea about another choice. Still thinking about that one.

[wab]

Yeah my top two are Harbaugh and Johnson but if I had to pick a 3rd it would be Flores. Or Tomlin if he gets fired.

[The Marshall Plan]

Yeah my top two are Harbaugh and Johnson but if I had to pick a 3rd it would be Flores. Or Tomlin if he gets fired.

If Tomlin gets fired I'd be on that like flies on shit. Not above Harbaugh, but ahead of Flores.

[artbest01]

It remains to be seen if a coach can fix Justin's uniquely slow processing speed and penchant for holding the ball too long. My guess is that, if a Jim Harbaugh took the job and wanted to give it a go with Justin Fields, he'd hire his old friend and SF OC Greg Roman to see if he can get more out of #1.

Local Chicago media - those paid to "know" these things - are convinced that the gushing that Collinsworth and Tirico were doing over Bagent, including and especially them saying that they hope Justin watches how quickly Tyson gets the ball out of his hands, came from the coaching staff....effectively throwing, right or wrong, Justin under the proverbial bus. This followed Justin publicly calling out "coaching" as a reason for his struggles. This is looking and feeling like Jay Cutler, Aaron Kromer and Marc Trestman.

That said, I'm GUESSING that Poles wants to see how Justin performs when he returns before making any final decisions (on his QB). Eberflus and his staff are on a track to lose their jobs, barring a miraculous turnaround. The Bears fielded a team last night that wasn't ready to play - on either side of the ball.

The JF1 situation comes down to this.

Can JF1 be saved MENTALLY?

Physically he can do anything you want a QB to do.

Is his spirit broken? Is he mentally tough enough to handle Regime #3 in four years?

Whether JF1 was right or wrong to call out the coaching will a Jim Harbaugh type want that around?

[artbest01]

FWIW:

I think they were just talking up the Cinderella story. The tie-in to Fields seemed naturally obvious without the need for Chicago coaches to plant anything.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

I don’t think Flus/Getsy/Janoko can retrieve Fields mentally.

I think they’re making it worse and I don’t think they have any clue about turning it round.

[wab]

I don’t think Flus/Getsy/Janoko can retrieve Fields mentally.

I think they’re making it worse and I don’t think they have any clue about turning it round.

I don't think they really intend to turn it around. At least not with Fields. They've had 21 games with him.

I think they hope Bagent can show enough to save their jobs and let them move on from Fields so they can get a QB that fits what they want to do.

[wab]

FWIW:

I think they were just talking up the Cinderella story. The tie-in to Fields seemed naturally obvious without the need for Chicago coaches to plant anything.

Eh, this is just Bernsy and his manufactured outrage. Yes, the Bagent stuff was a little over the top last night, but they'd prepped for his story arc the whole week. Bernstein throwing out some thinly veiled and lazy stuff about why they were "taking shots" at Fields is just what he does.

[artbest01]

Maybe - but both Bernstein and Holmes spent several years on the Bears beat - ie, on the receiving end of nuggets deliberately sent by bears’ brass




quote=wab post_id=354361 time=1698699337 user_id=61]

FWIW:

Eh, this is just Bernsy and his manufactured outrage. Yes, the Bagent stuff was a little over the top last night, but they'd prepped for his story arc the whole week. Bernstein throwing out some thinly veiled and lazy stuff about why they were "taking shots" at Fields is just what he does.
[/quote]

[Noots]

I'll also add that Olin Kreutz, during PREGAME, posited that he hopes they stick with Bagent, not because he thinks he's better than JF1, but because he thinks Getsy refuses to properly craft the scheme around his talents.

As I so clumsily stated in my open of the thread, the irony here is that they called a SHIT game for Bagent, too.

[dplank]

I'll also add that Olin Kreutz, during PREGAME, posited that he hopes they stick with Bagent, not because he thinks he's better than JF1, but because he thinks Getsy refuses to properly craft the scheme around his talents.

As I so clumsily stated in my open of the thread, the irony here is that they called a SHIT game for Bagent, too.

I think it’s more incompetence than irony lol. Getsy sucks, we know this now, and need to account for that when looking at either Bagent or Fields play.