Update: Kramer waived/claimed by Arizona

[Arkansasbear]

https://www.windycitygridiron.com/2023/ ... arry-borom

So I was out of pocket all weekend and this may have been mentioned somewhere, but I just saw we waived Kramer.

Again I simply don't know what this team is thinking. We are 2-7 and not going anywhere. We have a two interior OL players that, at least to me, have shown they should not be in the future plans of this team.

I get "you play to win the game," but have to have an eye on the future. Isn't now the time to see if Kramer and Carter have a role going forward????

They very well could suck and we lose with them in the lineup (but it looks like we are going to lose regardless), but let's find out if there is something there. In Sanborn, Bagent and B. Jones, Poles has shown he can find talented players after the 4th round. Let's see if these guys fit that mold. They could be future starters or maybe a solid backup. Great chance they should have no part on this team. Let's find out by playing them.

Freaking maddening to me.

[Rusty Trombagent]

it's just that game where they stash on the practice squad, then elevate, then waive, rinse repeat.
He's never played a snap, he's not getting poached onto anyone's active roster.

[LacertineForest]

If he was good enough to see the field, he would. He's JAG.

[alexwilkins]

it's just that game where they stash on the practice squad, then elevate, then waive, rinse repeat.
He's never played a snap, he's not getting poached onto anyone's active roster.

Ever the optimist, I’m sure there was a plan that got thrown off... right?!?

Otherwise, why activate him from IR, not play him for 2 weeks, then waive him and put him back on the practice squad?

[wab]

Why not just leave the dude on IR? Similar to the Kareem thing. In a vacuum it's not a big deal...they are bottom of the roster players. But the thought process is weird at a minimum.

[Moriarty]

If he was good enough to see the field, he would. He's JAG.

Yeah. I don't think Kramer's minimal chance of being something is worth destabilizing an OL that's already experienced 8 team's worth of destabilization.

If they were fans of Kramer, they'd cut Feeney, instead of taking a (small, but real) chance he gets scooped. They're just not that into Kramer.

[Moriarty]

it's just that game where they stash on the practice squad, then elevate, then waive, rinse repeat.
He's never played a snap, he's not getting poached onto anyone's active roster.

Ever the optimist, I’m sure there was a plan that got thrown off... right?!?

Otherwise, why activate him from IR, not play him for 2 weeks, then waive him and put him back on the practice squad?

In this case, I think they felt cornered.


Whitehair had just shit the bed at center
Feeney was on Injury Reports with a knee issue
Davis was out and a long way from recovering
Wright was on Injury Report, too

So they were short-handed overall,
short-handed in the interior,
and had no one at C after Patrick


If Feeney hadn't developed the knee problem, then I would say that bringing Kramer back was probably foolish.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

So I was out of pocket all weekend and this may have been mentioned somewhere, but I just saw we waived Kramer.

Yeah they cut him to make room for Braxton Jones' reactivation from IR. It was mentioned in the injury thread. It's just a straight forward swap of one OL for another.

It wouldn't be remotely significant if it wasn't for the fact that neither Whitehair nor Patrick can snap reliably. That's the only reason for wanting to see Kramer play. It's a pretty fundamental skill for the position isn't it? Extraordinary that an NFL team can't even manage to do that right, but then again this is the Bears we're talking about.

[Arkansasbear]

So I was out of pocket all weekend and this may have been mentioned somewhere, but I just saw we waived Kramer.

Yeah they cut him to make room for Braxton Jones' reactivation from IR. It was mentioned in the injury thread. It's just a straight forward swap of one OL for another.

It wouldn't be remotely significant if it wasn't for the fact that neither Whitehair nor Patrick can snap reliably. That's the only reason for wanting to see Kramer play. It's a pretty fundamental skill for the position isn't it? Extraordinary that an NFL team can't even manage to do that right, but then again this is the Bears we're talking about.

That was kind of my point. If Kramer can at least snap the ball and somewhat slow down the DL, maybe you feel okay with him as a backup next year. If you see can't snap or block once the lights come on, you know he needs to be gone. But as you said, it's the Bears we are talking about so why should I be shocked about any move they make.

[bearsoldier]

https://www.windycitygridiron.com/2023/ ... le-central

We really should have waived VJJ instead of Kramer. This is a negative mark for Poles.

[wab]

[Rusty Trombagent]

We can always claim him back in a couple of weeks

[wab]

We can always claim him back in a couple of weeks

Arizona actually might have a worse situation at center than the Bears. Kramer might be the starting center for AZ when the two teams play each other.

[dplank]

Not happy with this move by Poles, VJJ should have been launched. We thought enough of Kramer to waste an IR return slot on him, so it's not like we didn't think he had any value. And we could have simply let him stay on IR and tried to get him bulked up for next year. These small moves by Poles aren't a good look, even if ultimately they don't add up to much - it's about the process not the player.

[G08]

it's just that game where they stash on the practice squad, then elevate, then waive, rinse repeat.
He's never played a snap, he's not getting poached onto anyone's active roster.

Woof. 0-2.

[thunderspirit]

Seems like a calculated risk (Doug Kramer had cleared waivers before, so it wasn't hard to figure he'd make it through again) that didn't pan out. Those happen.

Spending the IR return slot on Kramer is no less a glaring error than the one used on Khalid Kareem, though. Those are both questionable judgment calls by Poles.

[Grizzled]

Cut a center because the position is one of the team's strengths.... Whitehair has completely sucked at C. Patrick has mostly sucked. Why not have given Kramer an actual chance with extensive playing time? But let's keep trotting VJJ out there and taking up a roster spot.

[Moriarty]

I have no hesitation in launching Velus - but you can't really play half a season with 4 WRs on your roster. You have to replace him with something, and then you're back to the same roster count and something needs to give.

You could argue for cutting DRob perhaps.

However, finding a way to keep Kramer means you're carrying 10 OL, which is high - and 7 of those 10 are purely IOL, which is really high.
They could possibly be only carrying 9, except they couldn't send Davis to IR where he belongs, because they wasted/planned to waste a number of their IR recalls.

[Otis Day]

Cut a center because the position is one of the team's strengths.... Whitehair has completely sucked at C. Patrick has mostly sucked. Why not have given Kramer an actual chance with extensive playing time? But let's keep trotting VJJ out there and taking up a roster spot.

I think his lack of PT says that he sucks worse than the aforementioned. If they saw anything in him they probably would not have made a move like this.

[RichH55]

Seems like a calculated risk (Doug Kramer had cleared waivers before, so it wasn't hard to figure he'd make it through again) that didn't pan out. Those happen.

Spending the IR return slot on Kramer is no less a glaring error than the one used on Khalid Kareem, though. Those are both questionable judgment calls by Poles.

This really overstates it - still.

[HurricaneBear]

This wouldnt have been an issue if he would have drafted a C instead of 3 defensive players.

[Grizzled]

Cut a center because the position is one of the team's strengths.... Whitehair has completely sucked at C. Patrick has mostly sucked. Why not have given Kramer an actual chance with extensive playing time? But let's keep trotting VJJ out there and taking up a roster spot.

I think his lack of PT says that he sucks worse than the aforementioned. If they saw anything in him they probably would not have made a move like this.

Most likely. He must have really sucked in practice.

[Grizzled]

I have no hesitation in launching Velus - but you can't really play half a season with 4 WRs on your roster. You have to replace him with something, and then you're back to the same roster count and something needs to give.

You could argue for cutting DRob perhaps.

However, finding a way to keep Kramer means you're carrying 10 OL, which is high - and 7 of those 10 are purely IOL, which is really high.
They could possibly be only carrying 9, except they couldn't send Davis to IR where he belongs, because they wasted/planned to waste a number of their IR recalls.

The Bears have already sent the maximum number of guys to IR who have been recalled to the active roster. If they send any other players to IR, they're done for the season.

[southdakbearfan]

Dude isn’t Jason Kelsey so who cares. It’s a bottom of roster fringe player likely to be out of the nfl in a couple seasons.

[HurricaneBear]

Dude isn’t Jason Kelsey so who cares. It’s a bottom of roster fringe player likely to be out of the nfl in a couple seasons.

As said by multiple people, Kramer is irrelevant. It's the flaws in Poles process which are showing that are worrisome.

[Moriarty]

I have no hesitation in launching Velus - but you can't really play half a season with 4 WRs on your roster. You have to replace him with something, and then you're back to the same roster count and something needs to give.

You could argue for cutting DRob perhaps.

However, finding a way to keep Kramer means you're carrying 10 OL, which is high - and 7 of those 10 are purely IOL, which is really high.
They could possibly be only carrying 9, except they couldn't send Davis to IR where he belongs, because they wasted/planned to waste a number of their IR recalls.

The Bears have already sent the maximum number of guys to IR who have been recalled to the active roster. If they send any other players to IR, they're done for the season.

Yes, that's what I'm saying.
If they hadn't made bad decisions (IMO) to spend recalls on Kareem + Blackwell, they'd have 2 recalls left and been able to send Davis to IR and bring him back.

[Grizzled]

The Bears have already sent the maximum number of guys to IR who have been recalled to the active roster. If they send any other players to IR, they're done for the season.

Yes, that's what I'm saying.
If they hadn't made bad decisions (IMO) to spend recalls on Kareem + Blackwell, they'd have 2 recalls left and been able to send Davis to IR and bring him back.

Yes, we're at the halfway point of the season. Even if they had slots available, it's getting late to send a guy to an IR for even 4 games so it's possible they wouldn't do it anymore. But it would be nice to have that flexibility.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

The Bears have already sent the maximum number of guys to IR who have been recalled to the active roster. If they send any other players to IR, they're done for the season.

Yes, that's what I'm saying.
If they hadn't made bad decisions (IMO) to spend recalls on Kareem + Blackwell, they'd have 2 recalls left and been able to send Davis to IR and bring him back.

Doesn't it depend on whether they actually activate the players? They've been taken off IR and are currently in the 3 week evaluation period where they can practice and are eligible to return but none have actually been activated yet. At the moment all 3 are officially 'questionable' for the Panthers game.

Until a player is activated do they count against the 8-man limit? If not then they could choose not to activate one or more and as each week passes it becomes less relevant. At the end of the 3 week period they'll only be 5 games left in the season so there would be no point bringing anyone back from IR.

[Moriarty]

Yes, that's what I'm saying.
If they hadn't made bad decisions (IMO) to spend recalls on Kareem + Blackwell, they'd have 2 recalls left and been able to send Davis to IR and bring him back.

Doesn't it depend on whether they actually activate the players? They've been taken off IR and are currently in the 3 week evaluation period where they can practice and are eligible to return but none have actually been activated yet. At the moment all 3 are officially 'questionable' for the Panthers game.

Until a player is activated do they count against the 8-man limit? If not then they could choose not to activate one or more and as each week passes it becomes less relevant. At the end of the 3 week period they'll only be 5 games left in the season so there would be no point bringing anyone back from IR.

Nope.

There's
1) putting on IR
2) having them start practicing again
3) moving them back to the 53 man roster

You can do as much of 1 as you want
2 is what counts towards your limit of 8
Deciding not to activate them in the designated window doesn't help you any. Your Recall is already burned in step 2.


Yes, once there's only 4 weeks left, you couldn't send anyone to IR and bring them back, anyway. Although (if you had some remaining) you could bring back someone who was already on IR during those last 4 weeks.


My complaint, though is about bringing back people who really don't help that much, thereby forcing you to carry injured players on your 53, thereby causing short-handedness in games.
I contend, at the least Kareem and Blackwell shouldn't have been returned to practice. That would have allowed you to put some other hurt players on IR, giving you more roster room.

Terrell Smith is missing his 5th straight and probably won't be recovered enough to play for weeks - he could have been on IR
Davis is missing his 4th straight and doesn't sound close to returning - he could have been on IR
Fields is missing his 4th straight - he could have been on IR
Jackson missed 3, played 1, reinjured and missed 2 more - he arguably should have been on IR instead of trying to come back too soon

[dplank]

Doesn't it depend on whether they actually activate the players? They've been taken off IR and are currently in the 3 week evaluation period where they can practice and are eligible to return but none have actually been activated yet. At the moment all 3 are officially 'questionable' for the Panthers game.

Until a player is activated do they count against the 8-man limit? If not then they could choose not to activate one or more and as each week passes it becomes less relevant. At the end of the 3 week period they'll only be 5 games left in the season so there would be no point bringing anyone back from IR.

Nope.

There's
1) putting on IR
2) having them start practicing again
3) moving them back to the 53 man roster

You can do as much of 1 as you want
2 is what counts towards your limit of 8
Deciding not to activate them in the designated window doesn't help you any. Your Recall is already burned in step 2.


Yes, once there's only 4 weeks left, you couldn't send anyone to IR and bring them back, anyway. Although (if you had some remaining) you could bring back someone who was already on IR during those last 4 weeks.


My complaint, though is about bringing back people who really don't help that much, thereby forcing you to carry injured players on your 53, thereby causing short-handedness in games.
I contend, at the least Kareem and Blackwell shouldn't have been returned to practice. That would have allowed you to put some other hurt players on IR, giving you more roster room.

Terrell Smith is missing his 5th straight and probably won't be recovered enough to play for weeks - he could have been on IR
Davis is missing his 4th straight and doesn't sound close to returning - he could have been on IR
Fields is missing his 4th straight - he could have been on IR
Jackson missed 3, played 1, reinjured and missed 2 more - he arguably should have been on IR instead of trying to come back too soon

Good post - Poles process is a problem here. And when you see it so clearly on small moves like these, it makes one question his process on bigger moves like: HC hire/fire decisions, Claypool, etc