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dplank wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2024 7:35 pm If you think it’s because they view Howell as a better player, then please turn in your analyst card and leave the building immediately.
Please explain exactly what went down, then. As I'm obviously too ignorant in the ways of the NFL to hold a reasonable discussion with you.

Educate me, so I can better converse on the forum with you all.
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Screw free agency! Now that the Keenan Allen deal is done, lets do the Fields for Josh Sweat deal and then decide on who we take at #9.
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wab wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2024 11:59 am A somewhat related aside...

How weird would it be if the Bears had Montez Sweat, then traded for Josh Sweat, and then drafted T'Vondre Sweat.

And one of the Sweats is the brother of one of the other Sweats but neither are related to the third Sweat.
It all sounds a bit Sweaty. Would there be Alpacas involved?
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malk wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2024 12:29 pm I just can't get that worked up about not having a 2nd wideout when we've got DJ Moore and Cole Kmet. Trubisky ended up with Kendall Wright as his leading receiver despite only starting 4 games. 4 back to back years where we went Hester, Hester, Knox, Knox as our leading receivers. Even Fields rookie year where it was force feeding a grateful Mooney and a deeply ungrateful Robinson. That year we had 3635 receiving yards on the back of Mooney, 612 from Kmet and people like Damiere Byrd and Marquise Goodwin.

Scott, VJJ and Tonyan were pants last year, potentially somewhat down to scheme. With a more competent offence and 4 JAGs at WR2 through WR5 they'll put up enough yards opposite the guys we actually want to get targets.
Those offenses were bad. Surely the aim should be to get a much better receiver group so the offense can be good? Also you can't rely on a couple of players and hope they don't miss time due to injury.

Fortunately Poles has added a decent backup for Kmet, a RB who can catch passes and has now traded for a receiver who should be high-quality if age hasn't caught up to him.
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Otis Day wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:19 pm
crueltyabc wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:05 pm Also come the fuck on. We couldn't come up with $7m/yr to a good rotational guy?

Sounds like he didn't give the Bears a chance. WTF do you want Poles to do? The had an interview set up, he didn't leave Carolina. Nicer weather there. Not everyone wants to come to Chicago.
And IIRC he played his college ball at So Carolina so that may also have figured in. He'll start with the Panthers vs being a rotational guy in Chicago. He's young, it's a 2 year deal, he plays well and he plays himself into a big payday extension. Makes sense.
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Heinz D. wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2024 7:15 pm
Bearfacts wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2024 5:20 pm OK, but read my last post just above and seek out Adam Mason's YouTube analyses of Fields 2023 season. Especially after he returned from his injury. Then tell me if you feel the same.
The Seahawks traded for Howell, and not for Fields.

Why do you think that is?
Look at what Howell cost them. Now look at what Poles may want for JF. There's your answer. :toast:
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Nice. Good jam there. Kind of hard to give so many guitarists solos in a little over 9 minutes. At the very beginning it sounded like Derek Trucks and his slide.
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Bearfacts wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 1:17 am
Heinz D. wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2024 7:15 pm
The Seahawks traded for Howell, and not for Fields.

Why do you think that is?
Look at what Howell cost them. Now look at what Poles may want for JF. There's your answer. :toast:
It's a possibility not an answer.

And it very well could be a possibility that Poles overplayed his hand.

It's also a very real possibility that most of the NFL does not think all that highly of Fields as a QB
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HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2024 10:55 pm
malk wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2024 12:29 pm I just can't get that worked up about not having a 2nd wideout when we've got DJ Moore and Cole Kmet. Trubisky ended up with Kendall Wright as his leading receiver despite only starting 4 games. 4 back to back years where we went Hester, Hester, Knox, Knox as our leading receivers. Even Fields rookie year where it was force feeding a grateful Mooney and a deeply ungrateful Robinson. That year we had 3635 receiving yards on the back of Mooney, 612 from Kmet and people like Damiere Byrd and Marquise Goodwin.

Scott, VJJ and Tonyan were pants last year, potentially somewhat down to scheme. With a more competent offence and 4 JAGs at WR2 through WR5 they'll put up enough yards opposite the guys we actually want to get targets.
Those offenses were bad. Surely the aim should be to get a much better receiver group so the offense can be good? Also you can't rely on a couple of players and hope they don't miss time due to injury.

Fortunately Poles has added a decent backup for Kmet, a RB who can catch passes and has now traded for a receiver who should be high-quality if age hasn't caught up to him.
My previous post to the one you quoted was about having a another good TE (won't be a backup for KMet imo but an option in his own right), and a pass catching RB. My point about some of our previous offences is they're what bad looks like. Our catching options are going to be something like WR1, TE1, TE2, WR2, RB, rest. For other teams it might be WR1, WR2, TE etc. or WR1, TE, WR2. The bottom line for me is our #1 receiver was top 6 for yards and our #1 TE was 9th for yards and 6th for receptions (out of TEs). We've added another TE who will get lots of looks in Waldron's offence and the same at running back. The team has options.

Put another way, Miami led the league in passing yards last year and it looked like:

566 Attempts overall. Top 7 by yards

WR1 Tyreek Hill - 1799
WR2 Jaylen Waddle - 1014
TE1 Durham Smythe - 366
WR3 Cedric Wilson Jr - 296
WR4 Braxton Berrios - 238
RB De'von Achane - 197
RB Raheem Mostert - 175

The Lions were second, comprising:

606 Attempts overall. Top 7 by yards

WR1 Amon-Ra St. Brown - 1515
TE1 Sam La Porta - 889
WR2 Josh Reynolds - 608
WR3 Kalif Raymond - 489
WR4 Jameson Williams - 354
RB Jaymyr Gibbs -316
RB David Montgomery - 117

Last year we looked like:

513 Attempts overall. Top 8 by yards (I've put 8 as we were especially RB by committee)

WR1 DJ Moore - 1364
TE1 Cole Kmet - 719
WR2 Darnell Mooney - 414
RB Roschon Johnson - 209
WR3 Tyler Scott - 168
RB Khalil Herbert - 134
TE2 Robert Tonyan - 112
RB D'Onta Foreman - 77

Looking at those the best passing offence in the league was basically two players and change. The Lions are perhaps a better comparison for us as getting 2800 from your top two receivers isn't generally an option!

St Brown and La Porta isn't much difference to Moor and Kmet, especially given the difference in QBs and attempts.
We don't have a WR2 theirs, Josh Porter had 608 yards.
Their 4th option was WR3 Raymond, ours might be Everett. 489 yards seems reasonable.
Their 5th option was WR4 Williams, ours might be Tyler Scott as WR3, or a rookie draft pick. Woof on one hand but it doesn't take the biggest leap of faith to hope the light bulb comes on enough for Scott to get 350 yards with some more opportunity.
Combining their main RBs that's another 433 yards. Johnson already had 209 and Swift definitely can make up the rest and more.

So on paper we need to find a stopgap at WR2 who can get 600 yards and hope that either Scott or a rookie can get 350. And bear in mind that's us being compared to the 2nd best passing offence in the entire league. I absolutely want us to go out and find a good one, or at least a decent one. But I genuinely believe we could grab someone off June 1st cuts, hoik 60 passes at them and get 400 yards.

EDIT: Fuck me, all that and we've traded for Keenan Allen lol. Lads, it's going to be fine.
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(2020 update, wait, was I right...)
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malk wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 10:20 am
HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2024 10:55 pm

Those offenses were bad. Surely the aim should be to get a much better receiver group so the offense can be good? Also you can't rely on a couple of players and hope they don't miss time due to injury.

Fortunately Poles has added a decent backup for Kmet, a RB who can catch passes and has now traded for a receiver who should be high-quality if age hasn't caught up to him.
My previous post to the one you quoted was about having a another good TE (won't be a backup for KMet imo but an option in his own right), and a pass catching RB. My point about some of our previous offences is they're what bad looks like. Our catching options are going to be something like WR1, TE1, TE2, WR2, RB, rest. For other teams it might be WR1, WR2, TE etc. or WR1, TE, WR2. The bottom line for me is our #1 receiver was top 6 for yards and our #1 TE was 9th for yards and 6th for receptions (out of TEs). We've added another TE who will get lots of looks in Waldron's offence and the same at running back. The team has options.

Put another way, Miami led the league in passing yards last year and it looked like:

566 Attempts overall. Top 7 by yards

WR1 Tyreek Hill - 1799
WR2 Jaylen Waddle - 1014
TE1 Durham Smythe - 366
WR3 Cedric Wilson Jr - 296
WR4 Braxton Berrios - 238
RB De'von Achane - 197
RB Raheem Mostert - 175

The Lions were second, comprising:

606 Attempts overall. Top 7 by yards

WR1 Amon-Ra St. Brown - 1515
TE1 Sam La Porta - 889
WR2 Josh Reynolds - 608
WR3 Kalif Raymond - 489
WR4 Jameson Williams - 354
RB Jaymyr Gibbs -316
RB David Montgomery - 117

Last year we looked like:

513 Attempts overall. Top 8 by yards (I've put 8 as we were especially RB by committee)

WR1 DJ Moore - 1364
TE1 Cole Kmet - 719
WR2 Darnell Mooney - 414
RB Roschon Johnson - 209
WR3 Tyler Scott - 168
RB Khalil Herbert - 134
TE2 Robert Tonyan - 112
RB D'Onta Foreman - 77

Looking at those the best passing offence in the league was basically two players and change. The Lions are perhaps a better comparison for us as getting 2800 from your top two receivers isn't generally an option!

St Brown and La Porta isn't much difference to Moor and Kmet, especially given the difference in QBs and attempts.
We don't have a WR2 theirs, Josh Porter had 608 yards.
Their 4th option was WR3 Raymond, ours might be Everett. 489 yards seems reasonable.
Their 5th option was WR4 Williams, ours might be Tyler Scott as WR3, or a rookie draft pick. Woof on one hand but it doesn't take the biggest leap of faith to hope the light bulb comes on enough for Scott to get 350 yards with some more opportunity.
Combining their main RBs that's another 433 yards. Johnson already had 209 and Swift definitely can make up the rest and more.

So on paper we need to find a stopgap at WR2 who can get 600 yards and hope that either Scott or a rookie can get 350. And bear in mind that's us being compared to the 2nd best passing offence in the entire league. I absolutely want us to go out and find a good one, or at least a decent one. But I genuinely believe we could grab someone off June 1st cuts, hoik 60 passes at them and get 400 yards.

EDIT: Fuck me, all that and we've traded for Keenan Allen lol. Lads, it's going to be fine.
Nice post (and the Edit makes it even better)

Ty Hill is awesome mind you (and a great #2 option for the Dolphins ). The rest of that roster ain't exactly blowing the bloody doors off the place
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malk wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 10:20 am
EDIT: Fuck me, all that and we've traded for Keenan Allen lol. Lads, it's going to be fine.
legit lol
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Edge market has all but dried up.

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wab wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 11:01 am Edge market has all but dried up.

Do we know who the Bears have worked out at Edge for this draft class?
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UOK wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 11:02 am Do we know who the Bears have worked out at Edge for this draft class?
I don't know about workouts, but at the Combine they met with Laiatu Latu, Jared Verse, Chop Robinson and Darius Robinson. I do not believe they met with Dallas Turner.
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wab wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 11:09 am
UOK wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 11:02 am Do we know who the Bears have worked out at Edge for this draft class?
I don't know about workouts, but at the Combine they met with Laiatu Latu, Jared Verse, Chop Robinson and Darius Robinson. I do not believe they met with Dallas Turner.
Turner's probably not a possibility in Flus' defense.

Chop Robinson, though? That guy killed the combine and I thoroughly enjoyed his highlights.
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Just a reminder why we are in this unbelievable position we find ourselves.

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If Poles trades out of 1.9 to get a late teens 1st rounder and a 40's 2nd rounder then yeah I could see one of those 2nd tier DE's getting picked.
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wab wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2024 5:13 pm Someone needs to get ahold of IE. I need him to prop up Velus Jones so that I can feel better about the Bears not having any receivers.
Coach Wannsteadt (IE): Awwwp, VJJ will be foin. He's just a young man, a late bloomer that is getting his feet planted on the field. With a new OC in Waldron he'll find ways to utilize Velus' speed and take the top off the coverage.

Coach Flus: Velus is one of the hardest working receivers we have on the team. He's courteous and never shirks a duty. He has TWO Juggs machines at his house and all he does is catch passes. You'll see an improved Velus this July and beyond.

VJS (Velus Jones Sr.): All I'm asking is give mah boy a chance! He's put in the work now show him/us the money as he grabs TD passes and returns kicks.

[Realistically, you're looking at Moore, Allen, rookie, Scott, Jones and whatever receivers Poles happens to find after they're cut at the end of preseason. If a scrapheap WR happens to beat out VJJ then so be it. After paying Allen they can't afford to bring in any more high $$ WR's. Now if Poles trades down he could use more picks at WR.]
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wab wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 11:09 am
UOK wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 11:02 am Do we know who the Bears have worked out at Edge for this draft class?
I don't know about workouts, but at the Combine they met with Laiatu Latu, Jared Verse, Chop Robinson and Darius Robinson. I do not believe they met with Dallas Turner.
I think I'm no the Latu bus with you, knowing full well that he's going to herniate a disc in his neck the second he steps foot in halas hall
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Rusty Trombagent wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 12:13 pm
wab wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 11:09 am

I don't know about workouts, but at the Combine they met with Laiatu Latu, Jared Verse, Chop Robinson and Darius Robinson. I do not believe they met with Dallas Turner.
I think I'm no the Latu bus with you, knowing full well that he's going to herniate a disc in his neck the second he steps foot in halas hall
After Chris Williams, I have no desire whatsoever for the Bears to invest in a first round pick that has injury concerns.
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UOK wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 12:29 pm
Rusty Trombagent wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 12:13 pm

I think I'm no the Latu bus with you, knowing full well that he's going to herniate a disc in his neck the second he steps foot in halas hall
After Chris Williams, I have no desire whatsoever for the Bears to invest in a first round pick that has injury concerns.
If we trade back and could get him in the 13-16 range and some more pick, maybe. I hate the idea of him at #9.

But we all know how this plays out - the Bears draft him and he plays 6 games over 3 years for us. We pass on him and he is rookie of the year and has a Hall of Fame Career.
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UOK wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 12:29 pm
Rusty Trombagent wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 12:13 pm

I think I'm no the Latu bus with you, knowing full well that he's going to herniate a disc in his neck the second he steps foot in halas hall
After Chris Williams, I have no desire whatsoever for the Bears to invest in a first round pick that has injury concerns.
Don't you dare forget about Gabe Carimi...
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Arkansasbear wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 12:37 pm
UOK wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 12:29 pm

After Chris Williams, I have no desire whatsoever for the Bears to invest in a first round pick that has injury concerns.
If we trade back and could get him in the 13-16 range and some more pick, maybe. I hate the idea of him at #9.

But we all know how this plays out - the Bears draft him and he plays 6 games over 3 years for us. We pass on him and he is rookie of the year and has a Hall of Fame Career.
I consider myself a fairly cynical fan, but shee-whiz, Arkansasbear. It's a sunny day, team doesn't play for 6 months. Grab some bliss while it's available.
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Bears Whiskey Nut wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 12:38 pm
UOK wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 12:29 pm

After Chris Williams, I have no desire whatsoever for the Bears to invest in a first round pick that has injury concerns.
Don't you dare forget about Gabe Carimi...
Carimi didn't come into the league pre-injured.
KFFL refugee.

dplank wrote:I agree with Rich here
RichH55 wrote: Dplank is correct
:shocked:
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thunderspirit wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 12:42 pm
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 12:38 pm

Don't you dare forget about Gabe Carimi...
Carimi didn't come into the league pre-injured.
I loved that draft class. Carimi was always hurt, Paea was up and down but had some great moments, Conte was always hurt/Cobb! Rodgers! Touchdown!, and Enderle was a neat story but never became anything.

Sad times.
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Taxi is my all-time favorite sit-com to just watch with the kids or anybody.

Also watched everything Lucille Ball ever did on TV - big fav in my younger days.
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thunderspirit wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 12:42 pm
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 12:38 pm

Don't you dare forget about Gabe Carimi...
Carimi didn't come into the league pre-injured.
He had ankle problems/flexibility issues at Wisconsin. Then injured it in the NFL and never recovered.
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I would just like to take a moment to celebrate Ryan Poles and his efforts to make this one of the most interesting off seasons I have witnessed ... and it isn't over yet

I am encouraged, but encouraged in a different way than in times past ... THIS time, there are legitimate reasons for encouragement rather than the wishes and pipe dreams only of years past

I think the entire front office deserves a celebratory salute :thumbsup: :toast: :clap:
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UOK wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 12:47 pm
thunderspirit wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 12:42 pm

Carimi didn't come into the league pre-injured.
I loved that draft class. Carimi was always hurt, Paea was up and down but had some great moments, Conte was always hurt/Cobb! Rodgers! Touchdown!, and Enderle was a neat story but never became anything.

Sad times.
I chose this video of the infamous Conte Play because it has a Zapruder Film vibe about it.

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The Marshall Plan wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 1:51 pm
UOK wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 12:47 pm

I loved that draft class. Carimi was always hurt, Paea was up and down but had some great moments, Conte was always hurt/Cobb! Rodgers! Touchdown!, and Enderle was a neat story but never became anything.

Sad times.
I chose this video of the infamous Conte Play because it has a Zapruder Film vibe about it.

I'd rather slam my nuts in a car door than watch that clip.
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