Since 2021 79 sacks come from Justin Fields holding the ball over 4 seconds

[Rivernorthbearsfan]

Oh course lines break down sometimes. It happens with every team but why is there such a narrative that the Bears “Oline is so terrible? 4 seconds to make a decision and get rid of the football is plenty of time for the NFl.

Pro focus also has the Bears oline ranked 14th

Why is there such a narrative that the online is the reason fields takes all these sacks!?

https://www.nbcsportschicago.com/nfl/ch ... 915/?amp=1

[Shadow]

Because Bears Fans will Bears Fan! There is always an excuse when needed or not.

[The Marshall Plan]

Oh good.

Another Fields thread.

[Rivernorthbearsfan]

Oh good.

Another Fields thread.

I don't see any threads discussing the online and how they have a bad reputation when the majority of the time its Fields fault he is taking sacks. Correct me if I am wrong. I am new here and don't know how to search old threads

[southdakbearfan]

People push their narratives, regardless of facts. They become tribalistic and attack any other point of view besides their own when it involves a player they have an emotional attachment to.

This is why I quit becoming attached to players as it makes it way easier to see the full picture, and more enjoyable to just be a fan of the team.

It’s easy to blame the line for fields getting sacked, it’s also easy to blame fields for the line woes, when in fact the truth is most likely somewhere in between. There have been points in time where the line, or at least portions of it have been terrible, there have also been a lot of bad sacks taken when the ball should have been thrown away. Both of these issues screw the offense and both need to be corrected.

[German Bear]

If you look at individual stats you will always find strong arguments for or against something. There are complex connections behind almost all stats, which make it necessary to look at the overall picture.

When it comes to sacks, one could argue, for example, that the WR doesn't run freely or that Fields sometimes generates big plays by holding the ball for a long time.

I don't want to deny the topic. But I don't think it makes sense to look at individual aspects. Here you could cite the passer rating for Fields with Moore, for example. We just need another good WR and the offense goes through the roof. That would be too easy.Maybe not ?

[dplank]

People push their narratives, regardless of facts. They become tribalistic and attack any other point of view besides their own when it involves a player they have an emotional attachment to.

This is why I quit becoming attached to players as it makes it way easier to see the full picture, and more enjoyable to just be a fan of the team.

It’s easy to blame the line for fields getting sacked, it’s also easy to blame fields for the line woes, when in fact the truth is most likely somewhere in between. There have been points in time where the line, or at least portions of it have been terrible, there have also been a lot of bad sacks taken when the ball should have been thrown away. Both of these issues screw the offense and both need to be corrected.

Boom! 100% right. And both are trending better, which is a really good sign for where we are heading.

[RichH55]

It's basically apologism and people not generally watching a ton of NFL football outside of the Bears (*)

(*) Especially pre- Sweat when we had one of the worst pass rushes in the NFL. So the "EYE TEST" seemed every more jarring - but even then the opposing QB was still getting the ball out a lot faster.

Fields taking Sacks he doesn't need to take has been one of the biggest warts in his game dating back to College.

Of course if you note that basic truth - you get called a Packers fan

[RichH55]

People push their narratives, regardless of facts. They become tribalistic and attack any other point of view besides their own when it involves a player they have an emotional attachment to.

This is why I quit becoming attached to players as it makes it way easier to see the full picture, and more enjoyable to just be a fan of the team.

It’s easy to blame the line for fields getting sacked, it’s also easy to blame fields for the line woes, when in fact the truth is most likely somewhere in between. There have been points in time where the line, or at least portions of it have been terrible, there have also been a lot of bad sacks taken when the ball should have been thrown away. Both of these issues screw the offense and both need to be corrected.

Boom! 100% right. And both are trending better, which is a really good sign for where we are heading.

His Sack rate was still over 10% - Which is still terrible. It's trending "better" because it had nowhere else to go. 14 Percent as a Rookie is unconscionable bad. That's David Carr as a Rookie on an Expansion Team with less rules to help QBs bad.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

Oh good.

Another Fields thread.

I don't see any threads discussing the online and how they have a bad reputation when the majority of the time its Fields fault he is taking sacks. Correct me if I am wrong. I am new here and don't know how to search old threads

Justin Fields was pressured more than any QB in the league, and it wasn't close. Our interior was terrible save Jenkins.

[RichH55]

I don't see any threads discussing the online and how they have a bad reputation when the majority of the time its Fields fault he is taking sacks. Correct me if I am wrong. I am new here and don't know how to search old threads

Justin Fields was pressured more than any QB in the league, and it wasn't close. Our interior was terrible save Jenkins.

Curious on this:

You do know that Pressures are likely heavily influenced by the QB right? (I'm also guessing you mena Pressure percentage not pressures outright?)

Like the play that Fields got hurt on - that took 6+ seconds . That WAS a pressure.

ESPN - again - liked our Pass Block Win Rate. (*). 2.5 Seconds there

(*) It should ALWAYS be noted that Fields himself HELPS in that regard because his GREAT ability to run - you have to be much more disciplined in your Pass Rush in terms of lanes, etc. Which actively hurts the pass rusher.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

9 sacks came in one game - his first start. The Oline was terrible in that game.

Every stat needs context. Stats Schmats

[RichH55]

9 sacks came in one game - his first start. The Oline was terrible in that game.

Every stat needs context. Stats Schmats

Even if you take that game out - his Sack % number is over 10 percent every year. He was also a Sack taking machine at Ohio State

Is the entirety of his career even when broken down into smaller portions that keep showing the same thing enough context?

Is there like a 12 Step Program for ending TTT (Presumably your higher power is Tom Brady there?)

[Hoog]

Ok, lets go with stats schmats. I like that and would prefer to go by the eyeball and wife yelling at me test.

First, the eye test. Both the line and JF1 have some to do with the large amount of sacks, although I am leaning a more 65% JF1 and 35% Oline.

My eyes say JF is one of the worst decision makers and pre snap diagnosis QB in the league. He just doesn't decide to run or make the right read correctly enough. Now the line is a problem too. We have a lot of youths on the line and have had injuries to key Olineman throughout the year, so no real consistancy. When all starters are playing and healthy at one time, they are very good. BUT, because of these issues, I'd give them 35% of the blame.

Now the wife yelling at me test. I know JF1 is at least 65% of the issue because my wife yells at me to be quiet (ok, shut up) 100% of the time I yell "throw it, throw it, throw the f'ing ball" at JF1 during the game with wide open receivers and 100% of the time I yell "run, run, run the damn ball there's a huge lane right there". I would say this iccurs 65% of the time he's sacked or does something stupid.

Therefore, between the eyeball and wife yelling test, the science is there to completely call this a 65/35% issue.

[wab]

Fields wasn’t as bad pre-snap under Nagy. I think some of it was the restrictions placed on him by Getsy.

[RichH55]

Fields wasn’t as bad pre-snap under Nagy. I think some of it was the restrictions placed on him by Getsy.

I still have a memory of a Pre-Season Game as a Rookie - Corner coming as blitzer - not hidden. Protection wasn't accounting for it beyond QB has to see this and hit the hot read. Football 101 stuff

And it looked like Fields had never seen it before - like it was the most exotic blitz package Rex Ryan, Buddy Ryan, and Bill Bellichick together could have put together if you forced them into a room with nothing else to do for 3 months.

I think most people (almost everyone) simply vastly underestimated just how much work Fields needed to do when he got to the NFL - Just how far the ceiling was from the floor. (*)

(*) By all accounts he's worked crazy diligently mind you. By just the extent of the job was probably underestimated by most

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

What are we saying then?

Unless we have a QB with zero flaws in his game we have to just move on until that unicorn QB magically falls into our draft pick?

Come on. He’s not perfect, but if you’re looking for perfection you’re in the wrong game.

Here’s the thing - Caleb Williams, Drake Maye and Jayden Daniels are not perfect either. Neither was Tom Brady.

Keep using nebulous stats to PROVE he’s not perfect.
My answer: yah, we know.

Surely it’s up to the coaches to scheme an offense which maximises the talent and mitigates the flaws.

If you need a perfect QB to play good offense then you’re a shit coach.

[Hoog]

Fields wasn’t as bad pre-snap under Nagy. I think some of it was the restrictions placed on him by Getsy.

Eh, Wab, I think he has been that bad since coming in, and the scary part is he hasn't figured it out yet. If someone could improve this for him, it would be life changing.

That being said, I still think you keep him next year on his deal, draft another QB to cover your ass, and see what happens.

[The Marshall Plan]

Ok, lets go with stats schmats. I like that and would prefer to go by the eyeball and wife yelling at me test.

First, the eye test. Both the line and JF1 have some to do with the large amount of sacks, although I am leaning a more 65% JF1 and 35% Oline.

My eyes say JF is one of the worst decision makers and pre snap diagnosis QB in the league. He just doesn't decide to run or make the right read correctly enough. Now the line is a problem too. We have a lot of youths on the line and have had injuries to key Olineman throughout the year, so no real consistancy. When all starters are playing and healthy at one time, they are very good. BUT, because of these issues, I'd give them 35% of the blame.

Now the wife yelling at me test. I know JF1 is at least 65% of the issue because my wife yells at me to be quiet (ok, shut up) 100% of the time I yell "throw it, throw it, throw the f'ing ball" at JF1 during the game with wide open receivers and 100% of the time I yell "run, run, run the damn ball there's a huge lane right there". I would say this iccurs 65% of the time he's sacked or does something stupid.

Therefore, between the eyeball and wife yelling test, the science is there to completely call this a 65/35% issue.

I evaluated myself using the Justin Fields Standard on TMP's Mother-In-Law Test and got the following results:

Refuses to give an opinion on whether or not she's paying too much for cable even though she shows him the bill every time they see each other.
Even though she got an internet connected device as a gift, will not help her connect it to WiFi.
If bringing a food dish to a family function, will absolutely not give anyone a heads up on the ingredients. Your food dislikes are your problem, not mine.
Wonders openly how his mother-in-law has allegedly contracted Covid the day before his birthday dinner each year for the past three years.
Will absolutely never invite her to dinner at one of my favorite places for fear of ruining the memory of there for life.

I give this a 100% / 0% issue.

[thunderspirit]

Fields wasn’t as bad pre-snap under Nagy. I think some of it was the restrictions placed on him by Getsy.

This.

I also think part (not all) of why he looked indecisive post-snap in 2023 especially is the lack of hot read options Getsy employed.

When all receiving options run to roughly the same depth so often, and when receivers are frequently in the same area when the ball is meant to be thrown, and when multiple guys who know how NFL offenses are intended to work point it out, I for one tend to look toward the person designing the plays for answers.

I've said this before, but it bears repeating: I don't believe that Fields is without blame in the head-scratcher that was the Bears' offense in 2023. But I do think that he was often trying to play the hand he was dealt.

[thunderspirit]

Surely it’s up to the coaches to scheme an offense which maximises the talent and mitigates the flaws.

Almost as though that's what you hire a coach to do.

[The Marshall Plan]

Fields wasn’t as bad pre-snap under Nagy. I think some of it was the restrictions placed on him by Getsy.

This.

I also think part (not all) of why he looked indecisive post-snap in 2023 especially is the lack of hot read options Getsy employed.

When all receiving options run to roughly the same depth so often, and when receivers are frequently in the same area when the ball is meant to be thrown, and when multiple guys who know how NFL offenses are intended to work point it out, I for one tend to look toward the person designing the plays for answers.

I've said this before, but it bears repeating: I don't believe that Fields is without blame in the head-scratcher that was the Bears' offense in 2023. But I do think that he was often trying to play the hand he was dealt.

What I cannot determine is what is the identity of the offense?

Are we a running team? A passing team?

Who is our lead running back? (Apparently it's Fields.)

What is the point of throwing a screen on 3rd and 20? Or a 5 yard pass on 3rd and 10?

At least with McNagy, the identity was that we were going to try and outsmart the defense with these routes and formations? McNagy's problem is that he tried outsmarting people with Mitch and then a rookie JF1 at QB. It was too much for them.

[Rivernorthbearsfan]

If you look at individual stats you will always find strong arguments for or against something. There are complex connections behind almost all stats, which make it necessary to look at the overall picture.

When it comes to sacks, one could argue, for example, that the WR doesn't run freely or that Fields sometimes generates big plays by holding the ball for a long time.

I don't want to deny the topic. But I don't think it makes sense to look at individual aspects. Here you could cite the passer rating for Fields with Moore, for example. We just need another good WR and the offense goes through the roof. That would be too easy.Maybe not ?

We already had another receiver in Darnell Mooney. Mooney first season he had over 1,000 yards receiving. That to me means he has show he can be a capable WR if given the opportunity. Fields just isn't a good passer causing those around him statistics to suffer (Oline and Receivers)

FYI. Mooneys best game was when Bagent played

[dave99]

If you look at individual stats you will always find strong arguments for or against something. There are complex connections behind almost all stats, which make it necessary to look at the overall picture.

When it comes to sacks, one could argue, for example, that the WR doesn't run freely or that Fields sometimes generates big plays by holding the ball for a long time.

I don't want to deny the topic. But I don't think it makes sense to look at individual aspects. Here you could cite the passer rating for Fields with Moore, for example. We just need another good WR and the offense goes through the roof. That would be too easy.Maybe not ?

We already had another receiver in Darnell Mooney. Mooney first season he had over 1,000 yards receiving. That to me means he has show he can be a capable WR if given the opportunity. Fields just isn't a good passer causing those around him statistics to suffer (Oline and Receivers)

FYI. Mooneys best game was when Bagent played

I dunno, it might have a little to do with the receiver:

[wab]

If you look at individual stats you will always find strong arguments for or against something. There are complex connections behind almost all stats, which make it necessary to look at the overall picture.

When it comes to sacks, one could argue, for example, that the WR doesn't run freely or that Fields sometimes generates big plays by holding the ball for a long time.

I don't want to deny the topic. But I don't think it makes sense to look at individual aspects. Here you could cite the passer rating for Fields with Moore, for example. We just need another good WR and the offense goes through the roof. That would be too easy.Maybe not ?

We already had another receiver in Darnell Mooney. Mooney first season he had over 1,000 yards receiving. That to me means he has show he can be a capable WR if given the opportunity. Fields just isn't a good passer causing those around him statistics to suffer (Oline and Receivers)

FYI. Mooneys best game was when Bagent played

Mooney had a 1000 yards in his second season…with Fields at QB.

[thunderspirit]

We already had another receiver in Darnell Mooney. Mooney first season he had over 1,000 yards receiving. That to me means he has show he can be a capable WR if given the opportunity. Fields just isn't a good passer causing those around him statistics to suffer (Oline and Receivers)

FYI. Mooneys best game was when Bagent played

Mooney had a 1000 yards in his second season…with Fields at QB.

He did, yes.

Almost like it's not all on the QB or something.

[Moriarty]

We already had another receiver in Darnell Mooney. Mooney first season he had over 1,000 yards receiving. That to me means he has show he can be a capable WR if given the opportunity. Fields just isn't a good passer causing those around him statistics to suffer (Oline and Receivers)

FYI. Mooneys best game was when Bagent played

Mooney had a 1000 yards in his second season…with Fields at QB.

But he was the primary target then. This year he was 3rd or 4th.
It looks to me like the numbers are saying pretty clearly - if you aren't Fields' 1st or 2nd favorite target, don't plan on seeing the ball.

[wab]

Mooney had a 1000 yards in his second season…with Fields at QB.

But he was the primary target then. This year he was 3rd or 4th.
It looks to me like the numbers are saying pretty clearly - if you aren't Fields' 1st or 2nd favorite target, don't plan on seeing the ball.

The post was insinuating that Mooney was good before Fields showed up and that Mooney suffered because Fields is a bad passer. I was just pointing out that was factually incorrect.

[Moriarty]

It's basically apologism and people not generally watching a ton of NFL football outside of the Bears (*)

(*) Especially pre- Sweat when we had one of the worst pass rushes in the NFL. So the "EYE TEST" seemed every more jarring - but even then the opposing QB was still getting the ball out a lot faster.

Fields taking Sacks he doesn't need to take has been one of the biggest warts in his game dating back to College.

Of course if you note that basic truth - you get called a Packers fan

https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/nfl/sa ... s/1140535/

Fields, for all his agility and elusiveness on the run, was sacked an alarming 56 times in his college career while attempting 618 passes — or once every 12.0 pass plays.

In comparison, North Dakota State’s Trey Lance was sacked once every 22.2 pass plays during his college career, while Alabama’s Mac Jones was sacked once every 37.8 pass plays.

Fields has experienced incredible success at every level with his movement ability. But it figures to be a focus at the NFL level for him to get rid of the ball quicker to avoid unnecessary hits and high sack totals.

“It’s something that you would work on as a coach and you’d try to get him to understand that you don’t want to do that,” Cosell said. “Whether it gets through or not, that’s always hard to know. He’s probably done that his entire life and been successful doing that.”

Blaming Getsy and the Bear OL for not getting the ball out fast and too many sacks at OSU doesn't fly.

[Noots]

We have 3 seasons’ body of work and find ourselves with:
-The most physically gifted QB in the league. Combine his accuracy, arm strength and running. It’s crazy awesome.
-A very middling performer, and I’d argue below average when playing from behind and late. So meh productivity.
-If you want to continue to blame the offensive line or Getsy for the sack % allowed, I suggest you look at the sack rate while Bagent was in there. It’s not even remotely close.

So, are we betting:
-Keep Him: It will magically get better here, with a new sprinkle of players around him and a new offensive coaching staff? Keeper’s remorse: it doesn’t get better, and we don’t have the picks or prospects to get access to a QB as good as Caleb Williams.
-Trade him: He won’t get better, we draft another guy who can perform higher than middling and on a new contract. Seller’s remorse: He magically gets better and haunts us forever from elsewhere. And our fans and locker all quit because it breaks our hearts.

I don’t think it’s strategic that we’re not hearing anything on JF1 right now, as the decision will not need to be made for a bit. However, it does help to put some distance between the cheers of his last home game as a Bear.