Caleb Williams News and Rumor thread

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wab wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2024 4:37 pm Cowherd really has a boner for this narrative. I don't know if he owes Williams' dad money or what.

Isn't this somewhat the argue make then they evaluate players by helmets?

"OSU can't develop QBs so don't draft Stroud."

"Penn State is linebacker U."

"Have you seen USC's history of QBs going into the NFL, no way should you draft Caleb."

There's a new GM and President in place, the offensive staff has been reworked.

This isn't the same team of Trestman and Phil Emery,

As other as stated this isn't the typical team holding the #1 pick. They didn't get the pick because they were the worst team.

They are a team that IMO should have made the playoffs.

In addition to #1 they hold the #9 pick that can help a QB drafted at #1.

They have the second most (??) cap space to bring in FAs.
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Arkansasbear wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 10:07 am
They have the second most (??) cap space to bring in FAs.
I think it's like 6th or 7th now after the Sweat and Billings deals. But still a lot.
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It will fall precipitously if we sign or franchise JJ (19M min) and extend Tev...will offset against Whitehair and possibly EJax cuts, but I assume the other teams have similar cuts available to them as well.
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wab wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 10:48 am
Arkansasbear wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 10:07 am
They have the second most (??) cap space to bring in FAs.
I think it's like 6th or 7th now after the Sweat and Billings deals. But still a lot.
Thanks I just saw something that Washington had the highest so I knew we no longer had spot.
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Florio says he hasn't actually heard anything negative from the Williams camp about playing in Chicago. He said, however, if they didn't but didn't want it publicly known, they could do what RGIII did in 2012 when his people reached out to Indy, who had the first pick, to say he didn't want to play for them. Someone named Andrew Luck was available that year so he wasn't going to be the pick anyway but it's the principle. Of course, there have been others who were more public: Eli Manning, John Elway, who forced teams to trade them or their draft picks. This is probably something which will never become public, neither side would want that.
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Grizzled wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 12:33 pm Florio says he hasn't actually heard anything negative from the Williams camp about playing in Chicago. He said, however, if they didn't but didn't want it publicly known, they could do what RGIII did in 2012 when his people reached out to Indy, who had the first pick, to say he didn't want to play for them. Someone named Andrew Luck was available that year so he wasn't going to be the pick anyway but it's the principle. Of course, there have been others who were more public: Eli Manning, John Elway, who forced teams to trade them or their draft picks. This is probably something which will never become public, neither side would want that.
Interesting.

There certainly are good reasons both sides wouldn't want that known.
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Grizzled wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 12:33 pm Florio says he hasn't actually heard anything negative from the Williams camp about playing in Chicago. He said, however, if they didn't but didn't want it publicly known, they could do what RGIII did in 2012 when his people reached out to Indy, who had the first pick, to say he didn't want to play for them. Someone named Andrew Luck was available that year so he wasn't going to be the pick anyway but it's the principle. Of course, there have been others who were more public: Eli Manning, John Elway, who forced teams to trade them or their draft picks. This is probably something which will never become public, neither side would want that.
I hadn't heard that about RG3 and Indy before, but uh yea, that sounds like the most pointless call in NFL history 😂
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The Cooler King wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 12:50 pm
Grizzled wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 12:33 pm Florio says he hasn't actually heard anything negative from the Williams camp about playing in Chicago. He said, however, if they didn't but didn't want it publicly known, they could do what RGIII did in 2012 when his people reached out to Indy, who had the first pick, to say he didn't want to play for them. Someone named Andrew Luck was available that year so he wasn't going to be the pick anyway but it's the principle. Of course, there have been others who were more public: Eli Manning, John Elway, who forced teams to trade them or their draft picks. This is probably something which will never become public, neither side would want that.
I hadn't heard that about RG3 and Indy before, but uh yea, that sounds like the most pointless call in NFL history 😂
I also let the Indy know that year that I wouldnt be playing for them, just in case.
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dplank wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2024 2:04 pm Yea we don't need a LaVar Ball type deal here, I was also glad to hear this. I do wonder sometimes about these "Tiger Mom" style parents, as Todd Marinivich comes to mind as a cautionary tale. Like, is CW doing this because he actually loves it or because he was basically forced into it as a toddler? That matters a ton - Poles himself said it's a key criteria because if you don't absolutely love the game you will never put in the work required to be great at it.
What kind of "deal" are you speaking of? LaVar Ball might not be a great example. I recall how much of a bigmouth that dude was but it ended pretty quickly once his kids were in the league. Sadly, Lonzo Ball has been hurt most of his Bulls time in Chicago, but I honestly cannot say I can recall hearing a single peep out of his old man whilst Lonzo's been on The Bull. I truly hope it's like LaVar Ball in that we stop hearing all the noise from his old man once the kid is on a pro team. :D
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Rusty Trombagent wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 1:09 pm
The Cooler King wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 12:50 pm
I hadn't heard that about RG3 and Indy before, but uh yea, that sounds like the most pointless call in NFL history 😂
I also let the Indy know that year that I wouldnt be playing for them, just in case.
I'm sure Chris Ballard was devastated. :D
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dplank wrote:I agree with Rich here
RichH55 wrote: Dplank is correct
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Watching more highlights of Jayden Daniels, you'd have to come up with a really good argument as to why Williams' is better than he is.
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Bears Whiskey Nut wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 4:54 pm Watching more highlights of Jayden Daniels, you'd have to come up with a really good argument as to why Williams' is better than he is.
Consistency. Despite being a 5th year player, Jayden Daniels only had the one really good season this past year. Is that who he is? Or was it just a perfect storm of events?

Also - every time that kid leaves the pocket he's at risk of ending his career. Seriously - he takes some unreal hits and it happens more often than you'd like.

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Bears Whiskey Nut wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 4:54 pm Watching more highlights of Jayden Daniels, you'd have to come up with a really good argument as to why Williams' is better than he is.
I like Daniels a lot. The thought of Daniels and Nabers at 2 and 9 is enticing.
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Magilla_Gorilla wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 5:25 pm
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 4:54 pm Watching more highlights of Jayden Daniels, you'd have to come up with a really good argument as to why Williams' is better than he is.
Consistency. Despite being a 5th year player, Jayden Daniels only had the one really good season this past year. Is that who he is? Or was it just a perfect storm of events?

Also - every time that kid leaves the pocket he's at risk of ending his career. Seriously - he takes some unreal hits and it happens more often than you'd like.

Hilariously it's not even an exaggeration in the slightest:

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Rusty Trombagent wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 5:36 pm
Magilla_Gorilla wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 5:25 pm

Consistency. Despite being a 5th year player, Jayden Daniels only had the one really good season this past year. Is that who he is? Or was it just a perfect storm of events?

Also - every time that kid leaves the pocket he's at risk of ending his career. Seriously - he takes some unreal hits and it happens more often than you'd like.

Hilariously it's not even an exaggeration in the slightest:

OK. I will re-qualify my assertion. I like Jayden Daniels THROWING FROM THE POCKET a lot.
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Bears Whiskey Nut wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 4:54 pm Watching more highlights of Jayden Daniels, you'd have to come up with a really good argument as to why Williams' is better than he is.
Caveat: I think very highly of Daniels.

Williams is 13 months younger, performed at a high level earlier, and has been more or less consistently the same guy since stepping in at Oklahoma (Daniels flashed plenty but didn't approach what he is now while starting at Arizona State).

I have serious reservations about Caleb Williams the person, but Caleb Williams the player performs like early Russel Wilson (with a quicker release).
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dplank wrote:I agree with Rich here
RichH55 wrote: Dplank is correct
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Noots wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 3:04 pm
dplank wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2024 2:04 pm Yea we don't need a LaVar Ball type deal here, I was also glad to hear this. I do wonder sometimes about these "Tiger Mom" style parents, as Todd Marinivich comes to mind as a cautionary tale. Like, is CW doing this because he actually loves it or because he was basically forced into it as a toddler? That matters a ton - Poles himself said it's a key criteria because if you don't absolutely love the game you will never put in the work required to be great at it.
What kind of "deal" are you speaking of? LaVar Ball might not be a great example. I recall how much of a bigmouth that dude was but it ended pretty quickly once his kids were in the league. Sadly, Lonzo Ball has been hurt most of his Bulls time in Chicago, but I honestly cannot say I can recall hearing a single peep out of his old man whilst Lonzo's been on The Bull. I truly hope it's like LaVar Ball in that we stop hearing all the noise from his old man once the kid is on a pro team. :D
Just a general "look at me I'm a doucher" vibe that LaVar had...doesn't seem like Mr Williams is like that tho
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Magilla_Gorilla wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:51 am
It's all so ridiculous. There is NO guarantee that Caleb Williams will be any good. There are red flags that he isn't quite as good as everyone is hyping him up to be. It's also NOT malpractice to build your team through the draft.
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Bears Whiskey Nut wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 10:18 am
Magilla_Gorilla wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:51 am
It's all so ridiculous. There is NO guarantee that Caleb Williams will be any good. There are red flags that he isn't quite as good as everyone is hyping him up to be. It's also NOT malpractice to build your team through the draft.
There's no guarantee, that's true.

Ryan Poles, Ian Cunningham and the brain-trust need to grind tape and evaluate him. Some have said you can go through all of Williams' tape in 4 hours and realize he's a #1 overall pick -- it's the background/character work that takes time and that is what can make or break him.

From what I'm reading in articles/hearing from interviews/podcasts, Caleb Williams is a good and incredibly competitive kid.

In the past 5-8 years, the only QB prospect that excited me more was Patrick Mahomes: viewtopic.php?p=153264&hilit=patrick+mahomes#p153264
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Bears Whiskey Nut wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 10:18 am
Magilla_Gorilla wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:51 am
It's all so ridiculous. There is NO guarantee that Caleb Williams will be any good. There are red flags that he isn't quite as good as everyone is hyping him up to be. It's also NOT malpractice to build your team through the draft.
Drafting Caleb is building through the draft though.
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G08 wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 10:37 am
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 10:18 am

It's all so ridiculous. There is NO guarantee that Caleb Williams will be any good. There are red flags that he isn't quite as good as everyone is hyping him up to be. It's also NOT malpractice to build your team through the draft.
There's no guarantee, that's true.

Ryan Poles, Ian Cunningham and the brain-trust need to grind tape and evaluate him. Some have said you can go through all of Williams' tape in 4 hours and realize he's a #1 overall pick -- it's the background/character work that takes time and that is what can make or break him.

From what I'm reading in articles/hearing from interviews/podcasts, Caleb Williams is a good and incredibly competitive kid.

In the past 5-8 years, the only QB prospect that excited me more was Patrick Mahomes: viewtopic.php?p=153264&hilit=patrick+mahomes#p153264
I just went through Williams' 2022 highlights/games, and he was much better that season than in 2023. Can you blame it on Kingsbury? Maybe...probably. I also went through some more of Maye's tape, and he seems to have the same throwing motion problem that Fields has. I don't know. I just think you're missing on a huge opportunity to continue building a team with draft capital. If the Bears trade Fields in the next four weeks, I'll get behind the Williams' pick.
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But G08 you didn't even think he was better than Russ or worthy of even a 1st round pick?
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The Cooler King wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 11:59 am
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 10:18 am

It's all so ridiculous. There is NO guarantee that Caleb Williams will be any good. There are red flags that he isn't quite as good as everyone is hyping him up to be. It's also NOT malpractice to build your team through the draft.
Drafting Caleb is building through the draft though.
It's a fair point. But you're giving up an additional 5-6 high round draft picks to take Caleb Williams instead. Poles better be right.
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Bears Whiskey Nut wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 12:01 pm ... It's a fair point. But you're giving up an additional 5-6 high round draft picks to take Caleb Williams instead. Poles better be right.
At this stage of the game the reality is that WHATEVER Poles does, "he better be right" because if not, he is going to get skewered and roasted.

I can't remember a draft where there was so much scrutiny applied to what ought to be done with the first pick. It could be because there are equally passionate voices on each side of the "Trade Justin vs. Keep Justin" argument.

I don't envy Poles' position right now. The second-guessers will be lined up around the block no matter what he does.
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Bears Whiskey Nut wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 10:18 am
Magilla_Gorilla wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:51 am
It's all so ridiculous. There is NO guarantee that Caleb Williams will be any good. There are red flags that he isn't quite as good as everyone is hyping him up to be. It's also NOT malpractice to build your team through the draft.
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Bears Whiskey Nut wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 12:01 pm
The Cooler King wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 11:59 am
Drafting Caleb is building through the draft though.
It's a fair point. But you're giving up an additional 5-6 high round draft picks to take Caleb Williams instead. Poles better be right.
And just think. If Poles had taken Bryce Young instead of the Trade Down we wouldn’t even be having these conversations.

Ironically, the people against this Trade Down are only available to have an opinion about this because we did a Trade Down in the first place.

I believe that Microsoft Excel calls that a Circular Reference.
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 12:13 pm
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 12:01 pm

It's a fair point. But you're giving up an additional 5-6 high round draft picks to take Caleb Williams instead. Poles better be right.
And just think. If Poles had taken Bryce Young instead of the Trade Down we wouldn’t even be having these conversations.

Ironically, the people against this Trade Down are only available to have an opinion about this because we did a Trade Down in the first place.

I believe that Microsoft Excel calls that a Circular Reference.
Piles wasn’t taking a QB last year because he wanted to see if Justin Fields was “the guy”.

The reason this debate exists is because there are still questions about Fields
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wab wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 12:17 pm
The Marshall Plan wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 12:13 pm

And just think. If Poles had taken Bryce Young instead of the Trade Down we wouldn’t even be having these conversations.

Ironically, the people against this Trade Down are only available to have an opinion about this because we did a Trade Down in the first place.

I believe that Microsoft Excel calls that a Circular Reference.
Piles wasn’t taking a QB last year because he wanted to see if Justin Fields was “the guy”.

The reason this debate exists is because there are still questions about Fields
True, but there are less questions at least. He showed us we can be a playoff caliber football team with him at QB. We were right there, and winning, against playoff bound teams on the regular the second half of the season. Questions remain for sure, but it’s not a complete unknown any longer. Fields can play.
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