Caleb Williams News and Rumor thread

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The Marshall Plan wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 4:13 pm
G08 wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 4:09 pm

I don't think Fields can run Waldron's offense, at least not the way Geno Smith (!!!) did in 2022 and 2023. It's a sad realization.
Based on what?
If you look at what Smith did before taking over in Seattle I think you would have said he couldn’t run that style of offense. Waldron did a great job with smith in decreasing his time to throw.
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Arkansasbear wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 9:08 pm
The Marshall Plan wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 4:13 pm

Based on what?
If you look at what Smith did before taking over in Seattle I think you would have said he couldn’t run that style of offense. Waldron did a great job with smith in decreasing his time to throw.
This is accurate. Geno Smith wasn't lighting up the NFL before taking over as the starter in Seattle under Waldron.

No one being honest can say Caleb Williams isn't a dynamic talent. He damn well is.
The questions with him appear to be largely about the person, not the player. They may be overblown, but they also may not be.
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dplank wrote:I agree with Rich here
RichH55 wrote: Dplank is correct
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"I work for the #Bears, I've seen every practice, I see the tape in season of 7 on 7 or red zone. You love the kid (Justin Fields) nobody denies the talent, all the things are there, it's just not consistent enough." 🫠

"You just passed on CJ Stroud. You missed on Mahomes. I don't see how you could do that again."

- @JimMiller_NFL (Former #Bears QB) via @NBCSBoston
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Magilla_Gorilla wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 9:53 pm

"I work for the #Bears, I've seen every practice, I see the tape in season of 7 on 7 or red zone. You love the kid (Justin Fields) nobody denies the talent, all the things are there, it's just not consistent enough." 🫠

"You just passed on CJ Stroud. You missed on Mahomes. I don't see how you could do that again."

- @JimMiller_NFL (Former #Bears QB) via @NBCSBoston
Oof.
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Magilla_Gorilla wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 9:53 pm

"I work for the #Bears, I've seen every practice, I see the tape in season of 7 on 7 or red zone. You love the kid (Justin Fields) nobody denies the talent, all the things are there, it's just not consistent enough." 🫠

"You just passed on CJ Stroud. You missed on Mahomes. I don't see how you could do that again."

- @JimMiller_NFL (Former #Bears QB) via @NBCSBoston
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: I do NOT envy Ryan Poles situation with draft. He’s got a career-defining choice to make and if he gets it wrong, he’s toast.
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G08 wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 6:52 pm
dplank wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 4:36 pm

As I’ve told you repeatedly, my concerns aren’t about his skills it’s about his character. I won’t learn anything new by larping like I’m a college scout on YouTube lol. You are kidding yourself dude, pros can’t forecast these guys into the NFL with any certainty at all but you think you can? Get a grip.

I’m open minded because I’m 65/35 on this, I can see both sides. I’m also loyal, so that probably artificially tilts the scale towards Fields in my head. I honestly think you are just bandwagon jumping here, but will welcome you back if we keep Justin.
If anyone on the planet could accurately forecast QBs, they'd be billionaires. I don't fancy myself some QB shaman :lol:

That being said I don't think it's difficult to see the talent Caleb Williams has and recognize it's not something that is available to bring to your every year...
Yes you do.

I watched YouTubes! I'm in love! He's Drew Brees!
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Arkansasbear wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 9:08 pm
The Marshall Plan wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 4:13 pm

Based on what?
If you look at what Smith did before taking over in Seattle I think you would have said he couldn’t run that style of offense. Waldron did a great job with smith in decreasing his time to throw.
This is the value of Waldron.

Creating a Turn Around Story. If Poles hired a guy whose offense is so complex you need a very specific QB type then we run the risk of another McNagy disaster.

This whole thing is over analyzed beyond belief. This OC means that. This offense means that.

If the Bears had hired the guy from USC or another guy with a direct connection to Williams then I can see it. I'm not talking about Six Degrees Of Caleb Williams either. I mean direct.

But that didn't happen. We hired Waldron who is famous for turning around Geno Smith. Gee whiz, I wonder what the thinking there was.
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I work in the UK.
I haven’t seen any practices.
I’ve seen mainly highlight videos.

I’d just like to ask Jim Miller - what do you put the inconsistency down to? Is it innate or can consistency be coached?

Personally I put inconsistency down to:
1) lack of effective practice
2) inconsistent play calling (although not on screens)
3) Poor coaching
4) Suboptimal personnel losing their personal match ups.

But if you think it’s just innate then sure, push your agenda and blame the QB.
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To be fair, you’re also pushing an agenda - one where that stops just short of fully exonerating fields for his chronic lack of productivity as a passer.

Admittedly, I do have an agenda. While fields didn’t have 49er level personnel or Andy Reid calling plays for him in 2023, he had enough talent around him this past season to be far more productive than he was passing the football. While not the only reason, he was a big reason why the offense failed to score touchdowns in two divisional matchups. He missed too many open receivers. Huge example of inconsistency was the great game he played against the falcons, where he refused to get sacked and made unbelievable plays, was followed up with a deer in headlights game against the packers where he, on more than one occasion cocked his arm to throw, didn’t pull the trigger, and was drilled practically in the face for multiple sacks. The fight and the playmaking we saw the week before was nowhere to be found as Jordan Love played circles around Fields.

That leads us to today. Do the Bears double down on a struggling 4th year QB likely facing a prove it year or do they draft someone, with another teams pick, who has much higher (imo) upside as a passer while still having a top 10 pick of their own?

Imo, even with an expected haul, the return of fields means two more ugly losses to the packers and the firing of flus and poles after the 2024 season



Ditka’s dictaphone wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 4:59 am I work in the UK.
I haven’t seen any practices.
I’ve seen mainly highlight videos.

I’d just like to ask Jim Miller - what do you put the inconsistency down to? Is it innate or can consistency be coached?

Personally I put inconsistency down to:
1) lack of effective practice
2) inconsistent play calling (although not on screens)
3) Poor coaching
4) Suboptimal personnel losing their personal match ups.

But if you think it’s just innate then sure, push your agenda and blame the QB.
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G08 wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 10:43 pm
Magilla_Gorilla wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 9:53 pm

"I work for the #Bears, I've seen every practice, I see the tape in season of 7 on 7 or red zone. You love the kid (Justin Fields) nobody denies the talent, all the things are there, it's just not consistent enough." 🫠

"You just passed on CJ Stroud. You missed on Mahomes. I don't see how you could do that again."

- @JimMiller_NFL (Former #Bears QB) via @NBCSBoston
Oof.
If you want to criticize Poles for passing on Stroud, that's reasonable. (I strongly believe he wasn't drafting a replacement for a QB going into Year 3, but still.)

But Poles didn't miss on Mahomes, Jim. He wasn't working for the Bears at the time. That argument shouldn't even factor in.
KFFL refugee.

dplank wrote:I agree with Rich here
RichH55 wrote: Dplank is correct
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thunderspirit wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 7:41 am
G08 wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 10:43 pm

Oof.
If you want to criticize Poles for passing on Stroud, that's reasonable. (I strongly believe he wasn't drafting a replacement for a QB going into Year 3, but still.)

But Poles didn't miss on Mahomes, Jim. He wasn't working for the Bears at the time. That argument shouldn't even factor in.
I took it as a comment about the Bears' organization as a whole, not specifically Poles.
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artbest01 wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 5:47 am To be fair, you’re also pushing an agenda - one where that stops just short of fully exonerating fields for his chronic lack of productivity as a passer.
Not accurate I’m afraid.

However, even if it was, I don’t claim any authority whereas he “works for the Bears” and has “seen every practice”.
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Magilla_Gorilla wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 9:53 pm

"I work for the #Bears, I've seen every practice, I see the tape in season of 7 on 7 or red zone. You love the kid (Justin Fields) nobody denies the talent, all the things are there, it's just not consistent enough." 🫠

"You just passed on CJ Stroud. You missed on Mahomes. I don't see how you could do that again."

- @JimMiller_NFL (Former #Bears QB) via @NBCSBoston
A lot of teams passed on Mahomes.

What's your point?

This Monday Morning QB method of drafting is really lame.
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Jim Miller has been supportive of Justin during the post game shows I’ve watched, so I find this meaningful. And his proximity to the team does give him more intel than your average pundit. I’d love to see Miller and Chase Daniel debate the issue for a solid 15 minutes, allow them both to go deep into their reasoning vs a quick hot take. I think that convo would be very insightful.
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thunderspirit wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 7:41 am
G08 wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 10:43 pm

Oof.
If you want to criticize Poles for passing on Stroud, that's reasonable. (I strongly believe he wasn't drafting a replacement for a QB going into Year 3, but still.)

But Poles didn't miss on Mahomes, Jim. He wasn't working for the Bears at the time. That argument shouldn't even factor in.
I understood it as he was speaking more to the franchise (McCaskey family, etc).
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Do you want George McCaskey to channel his inner David Tepper and press Poles to draft a QB?
Or do you want him to let the guys he hired to run the football operation run the football operation?

I'm sorry, you can't criticize both ways.
KFFL refugee.

dplank wrote:I agree with Rich here
RichH55 wrote: Dplank is correct
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thunderspirit wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 7:41 am
G08 wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 10:43 pm

Oof.
If you want to criticize Poles for passing on Stroud, that's reasonable. (I strongly believe he wasn't drafting a replacement for a QB going into Year 3, but still.)

But Poles didn't miss on Mahomes, Jim. He wasn't working for the Bears at the time. That argument shouldn't even factor in.
I think it's the proverbial "you" in this situation, and that he's referring to the Bears...not just one person. They weren't taking a QB at #1 last year no matter what, so it's a little pedantic of these media types to keep saying the Bears missed on Stroud.
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wab wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:45 am
thunderspirit wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 7:41 am

If you want to criticize Poles for passing on Stroud, that's reasonable. (I strongly believe he wasn't drafting a replacement for a QB going into Year 3, but still.)

But Poles didn't miss on Mahomes, Jim. He wasn't working for the Bears at the time. That argument shouldn't even factor in.
I think it's the proverbial "you" in this situation, and that he's referring to the Bears...not just one person. They weren't taking a QB at #1 last year no matter what, so it's a little pedantic of these media types to keep saying the Bears missed on Stroud.
It's a stupid way to look at things.

I mean OK.

We missed out on Ray Lewis, Randy Moss, Joe Montana, Joe Burrow, and 8,000 other guys. So did every single team that didn't take them.

Ummmmm....OK, what's the point?
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wab wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:45 am
thunderspirit wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 7:41 am

If you want to criticize Poles for passing on Stroud, that's reasonable. (I strongly believe he wasn't drafting a replacement for a QB going into Year 3, but still.)

But Poles didn't miss on Mahomes, Jim. He wasn't working for the Bears at the time. That argument shouldn't even factor in.
I think it's the proverbial "you" in this situation, and that he's referring to the Bears...not just one person. They weren't taking a QB at #1 last year no matter what, so it's a little pedantic of these media types to keep saying the Bears missed on Stroud.
It might be pedantic - but its always going to be there as a mark on Poles' resume, just as Pace has the Mahomes miss on his (despite the very different contexts). But I agree with your overall point that Miller was talking about the royal 'you' as in the franchise history. Even Jim Miller must think its depressing that he is one of the all time great QB's in Bears history.


As to some other people's criticisms of Jim -
As a Bears employee and analyst - he has access to everything we fans don't get to see - like 7 on 7 drills and red zone situations. He has the ability to watch every practice. And, according to Jim, Justin has the same issues with consistency in practice as he does in games. That's not the coordinators fault. Shitty as Getsy may have been - and shitty as his penchant for calling consecutive screens was - that's not the reason Justin lacked consistency in 7 on 7's.
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Magilla_Gorilla wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 10:43 am
wab wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:45 am

I think it's the proverbial "you" in this situation, and that he's referring to the Bears...not just one person. They weren't taking a QB at #1 last year no matter what, so it's a little pedantic of these media types to keep saying the Bears missed on Stroud.
It might be pedantic - but its always going to be there as a mark on Poles' resume, just as Pace has the Mahomes miss on his (despite the very different contexts). But I agree with your overall point that Miller was talking about the royal 'you' as in the franchise history. Even Jim Miller must think its depressing that he is one of the all time great QB's in Bears history.


As to some other people's criticisms of Jim -
As a Bears employee and analyst - he has access to everything we fans don't get to see - like 7 on 7 drills and red zone situations. He has the ability to watch every practice. And, according to Jim, Justin has the same issues with consistency in practice as he does in games. That's not the coordinators fault. Shitty as Getsy may have been - and shitty as his penchant for calling consecutive screens was - that's not the reason Justin lacked consistency in 7 on 7's.
Regarding your comment about Poles....

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I mean, if Poles doesn't end up with a consistent QB, people will look at every successful QB drafted while he was GM and say he passed on them (or failed to scout them correctly if he takes one that doesn't pan out). Fair or not, it's the one position I think every GM wants to figure out the most, and it's the one that will likely define his career as GM with the Bears.
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Magilla_Gorilla wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 10:43 am
wab wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:45 am

I think it's the proverbial "you" in this situation, and that he's referring to the Bears...not just one person. They weren't taking a QB at #1 last year no matter what, so it's a little pedantic of these media types to keep saying the Bears missed on Stroud.
It might be pedantic - but its always going to be there as a mark on Poles' resume, just as Pace has the Mahomes miss on his (despite the very different contexts). But I agree with your overall point that Miller was talking about the royal 'you' as in the franchise history. Even Jim Miller must think its depressing that he is one of the all time great QB's in Bears history.
I kind of get it tbh. I dont think he's necessarily saying YOU FUCKED UP, the Bears get a mulligan for passing on what looks to be a really good QB. The question becomes though, how many mulligans do you get? All that really matters is results. You can wring your hands and gnash your teeth at the Bears not being able to develop Justin Fields, but at the end of the day, all that really matters is Justin didnt develop.

So he's saying, here's multiple highly regarded prospects, and the Bears can take absolutely any one they want. You already doubled down on Justin last year (understandably) and were rewarded with a wildly inconsistent season. If you triple down on him this year and one of these top prospects goes on to be good? That's a big oof! No two ways around that.
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LacertineForest wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 10:51 am I mean, if Poles doesn't end up with a consistent QB, people will look at every successful QB drafted while he was GM and say he passed on them (or failed to scout them correctly if he takes one that doesn't pan out). Fair or not, it's the one position I think every GM wants to figure out the most, and it's the one that will likely define his career as GM with the Bears.
What Poles did and what Pace did are night and day.

Poles took the 1 pick last year, turned it into a star WR1, a starting RT, a starting CB, this year's #1 overall and a 25R2.

Pace had the 3 pick, in a draft with 3 legit QBs to choose from, traded up one spot and wound up with Mitch. Pace never needed to trade up to begin with.

Not for one second have I ever regretted what Poles did. In fact, I'm thankful he did it and I hope he does it again.
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People are simply too focused on QB. It can be true that QB is the most important position on the field AND people are too focused on it - which is what's happening here. Defense matters, OL matters, WR matters - team matters more than all. Based on how we were playing 2nd half, everyone has us pegged as a playoff team next year with or without a QB change.
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dplank wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:22 am People are simply too focused on QB. It can be true that QB is the most important position on the field AND people are too focused on it - which is what's happening here. Defense matters, OL matters, WR matters - team matters more than all. Based on how we were playing 2nd half, everyone has us pegged as a playoff team next year with or without a QB change.
That’s why the prospect of a #1QB is so exciting. He’ll be able to step into a situation better than any first pick QB in the last dozen years or more.
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:20 am
LacertineForest wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 10:51 am I mean, if Poles doesn't end up with a consistent QB, people will look at every successful QB drafted while he was GM and say he passed on them (or failed to scout them correctly if he takes one that doesn't pan out). Fair or not, it's the one position I think every GM wants to figure out the most, and it's the one that will likely define his career as GM with the Bears.
What Poles did and what Pace did are night and day.

Poles took the 1 pick last year, turned it into a star WR1, a starting RT, a starting CB, this year's #1 overall and a 25R2.

Pace had the 3 pick, in a draft with 3 legit QBs to choose from, traded up one spot and wound up with Mitch. Pace never needed to trade up to begin with.

Not for one second have I ever regretted what Poles did. In fact, I'm thankful he did it and I hope he does it again.
Hey, I agree with just about everything you said here - it's just that all GMs are judged, at the end of the day, by how successful their teams are, and that conversation largely focuses around the most important position on the field -- especially for the Bears, a team with no franchise QBs in the last 60 years. Even if he puts together a really good team but fails to secure a QB that can turn them into a consistent winner, he'll eventually lose his job for failing to address that. Fair or not, that's just the way it is.
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Magilla_Gorilla wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:29 am
dplank wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:22 am People are simply too focused on QB. It can be true that QB is the most important position on the field AND people are too focused on it - which is what's happening here. Defense matters, OL matters, WR matters - team matters more than all. Based on how we were playing 2nd half, everyone has us pegged as a playoff team next year with or without a QB change.
That’s why the prospect of a #1QB is so exciting. He’ll be able to step into a situation better than any first pick QB in the last dozen years or more.
Prove it.
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:41 am
Magilla_Gorilla wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:29 am

That’s why the prospect of a #1QB is so exciting. He’ll be able to step into a situation better than any first pick QB in the last dozen years or more.
Prove it.
I think he means the Bears' team composition and direction is better than any other #1 pick in the last dozen years or more will have had, not that Caleb or any other QB taken at #1 will necessarily be succesful. I don't think that's much of an argument.
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Just post about something else - my god

Dude has 78 posts and 90 are about CW

I come here to get AWAY from Twitter
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dplank wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:47 am Just post about something else - my god

Dude has 78 posts and 90 are about CW

I come here to get AWAY from Twitter
You’re literally in the ‘Caleb Williams News and Rumors’ thread.
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