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I would assume the entire stadium design would change if they went to the suburbs? No one wants to see a vista of walmarts and targets...
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dplank wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 9:22 am I would assume the entire stadium design would change if they went to the suburbs? No one wants to see a vista of walmarts and targets...
Not from the area but I thought someone said you can see the city from Arlington heights?

Otherwise yeah, stadium design is being changed
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Somebody else said it for me …

“Never let your ego get so close to your position that when your position falls, your ego falls with it.”

- Gen. Colin Powell
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Apparently AH and the school districts reconsidered losing out on significant tax revenues a Bears stadium and development project would bring:

https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-b ... n-heights/

The Bears want to begin construction by 2025 and be playing in the new stadium by 2028. Warren is realizing, with Illinois and Chicago politics, opposition to a lake front stadium, etc. that that is not realistic.
Last edited by Grizzled on Tue Jun 25, 2024 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Such a soap opera and a long way before any conclusion.
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wulfy wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 12:22 pm Such a soap opera and a long way before any conclusion.
It is but I feel confident Warren will bring home a stadium. If Sweaty Teddy was still in charge, I'm not so confident.
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It was always going to be AH after they bought the property. The rest is just games about lowering taxes.
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Carolina and Jacksonville have reached agreements with their respective cities to fund the costs of renovating existing stadiums:

https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-b ... dium-push/

Will the Bears push ahead with AH or will Warren revisit with the state to try and get funding? Pritzker seemed adamant about other needs being priorities over giving money to the Bears.
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Grizzled wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2024 7:19 am Carolina and Jacksonville have reached agreements with their respective cities to fund the costs of renovating existing stadiums:

https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-b ... dium-push/

Will the Bears push ahead with AH or will Warren revisit with the state to try and get funding? Pritzker seemed adamant about other needs being priorities over giving money to the Bears.
Chicago needs to step up and keep the Bears downtown IMO.
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Website launched to provide update info about the Arlington Heights stadium project.

"Welcome to SuburbanStadium.org, a resource for facts and information on issues related to the Chicago Bears’ consideration of Arlington Heights as a possible home, from the perspective of the three school districts directly affected.

This site was created and is maintained by the three school districts that lie within the former Arlington Park Racetrack property, now owned by the Bears: Community Consolidated School District 15, Township High School District 211 and High School District 214."


Link here: https://www.suburbanstadium.org/about
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Something tells me Warren won't easily give up on his idea of that lakefront stadium. Arlington was the McCaskey/Phillips vision not Warren's vision. He's more of a go big or go home type so I expect him to continue prodding the state for their participation. It's still a long way from being decided.
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Bearfacts wrote: Sat Jun 29, 2024 3:46 pm Something tells me Warren won't easily give up on his idea of that lakefront stadium. Arlington was the McCaskey/Phillips vision not Warren's vision. He's more of a go big or go home type so I expect him to continue prodding the state for their participation. It's still a long way from being decided.
You do realize there is 326 acres at Arlington Heights they own. Go big probably means go to Arlington where there is way more space to go big.
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southdakbearfan wrote: Sat Jun 29, 2024 4:04 pm
Bearfacts wrote: Sat Jun 29, 2024 3:46 pm Something tells me Warren won't easily give up on his idea of that lakefront stadium. Arlington was the McCaskey/Phillips vision not Warren's vision. He's more of a go big or go home type so I expect him to continue prodding the state for their participation. It's still a long way from being decided.
You do realize there is 326 acres at Arlington Heights they own. Go big probably means go to Arlington where there is way more space to go big.
Yes, of course I do and I'll stand by what I posted. The lakefront stadium is Kevin Warren's vision for a world class stadium in Chicago and I believe he's far from finished pursuing it. Arlington Heights is now the backup plan. The Bears seem to have made that clear.
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southdakbearfan wrote: Sat Jun 29, 2024 4:04 pm
Bearfacts wrote: Sat Jun 29, 2024 3:46 pm Something tells me Warren won't easily give up on his idea of that lakefront stadium. Arlington was the McCaskey/Phillips vision not Warren's vision. He's more of a go big or go home type so I expect him to continue prodding the state for their participation. It's still a long way from being decided.
You do realize there is 326 acres at Arlington Heights they own. Go big probably means go to Arlington where there is way more space to go big.
“Go big”, the catch phrase, doesn’t mean sq ft. Going big would be building downtown and going after the big vision. It’s more expensive and harder to pull off, but I hope they stay the course
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southdakbearfan wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 10:28 pm It was always going to be AH after they bought the property. The rest is just games about lowering taxes.
There ya go - SOMEONE gets it! :toast:
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Bearfacts wrote: Sat Jun 29, 2024 5:37 pm Yes, of course I do and I'll stand by what I posted. The lakefront stadium is Kevin Warren's vision for a world class stadium in Chicago and I believe he's far from finished pursuing it. Arlington Heights is now the backup plan. The Bears seem to have made that clear.
Huh?

How so?
dplank wrote: Sat Jun 29, 2024 5:38 pm “Go big”, the catch phrase, doesn’t mean sq ft. Going big would be building downtown and going after the big vision. It’s more expensive and harder to pull off, but I hope they stay the course
Surprised to hear you say that, tbh. It seems to me Arlington Heights is BY FAR the better option. Build a damn Bears museum. Build a funky Bears shopping mall. They can have it be so much more than just a new stadium if they build in AH--they can also make it a tourist attraction. It would also represent a better candidate for other big sporting events. Holding, say, the Big Ten Championship Game in AH is a whole order of magnitude easier, logistically speaking.
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It's the difference between a Gino's pizza and Little Caesers, or an elegant mansion vs a McMansion. You can get a lot more bang for your buck if all you care about is filling your stomach with anything, or think that all sq ft are the same. But the value of being downtown, aesthetically, is priceless and cannot be replicated anywhere in the world. AH can be anywhere, might as well be Tulsa or Birmingham. When people travel to the city of Chicago, do they go to AH because, logically speaking, it's an order of magnitude easier to get around? No. They go downtown where the action is, where the beauty is, etc.

I just don't want one of these...it's just my preference, some people may like McMansions and that's fine too - but there's nothing unique or special about them.

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dplank wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 10:46 am It's the difference between a Gino's pizza and Little Caesers, or an elegant mansion vs a McMansion. You can get a lot more bang for your buck if all you care about is filling your stomach with anything, or think that all sq ft are the same. But the value of being downtown, aesthetically, is priceless and cannot be replicated anywhere in the world. AH can be anywhere, might as well be Tulsa or Birmingham. When people travel to the city of Chicago, do they go to AH because, logically speaking, it's an order of magnitude easier to get around? No. They go downtown where the action is, where the beauty is, etc.
I get what you're saying...but we're not talking about people traveling to Chicago. We're talking about organizing (and televising) a nationally important sporting event that will be attended by tens of thousands of people, and viewed by millions more. I mean...aesthetics don't really enter into it, you know? I guess I could even go back to your pizza analogy. Yeah, Gino's has better pizza, but which company do you suppose makes more money, Gino's or Little Ceasar's?

And everybody involved with the Bears, even us fans, is better off if the Bears make more money.
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Did you know that 1/3 of all NFL teams play in cities that are not their team's namesake?

The one that surprised me the most of the list from the linked article below is the Dallas Cowboys. They play in Arlington, Texas.

From my perspective, I cannot stand the city of Chicago. I absolutely cannot. For the life of me I do not see why anybody would want to go down there. My most recent experience there was when my family and I went to the Macy's downtown at Christmas time for the infamous Walnut Room with the Christmas tree and everything.

Talk about a shit hole. Everything is concrete. Homeless people right outside the Macy's. Spray paint graffiti everywhere. The parking cost was like 1/2 the price of my family's lunch and we were there for a couple of hours.

Not to mention the commute. The infrastructure built for the 1970s but forced to handle a 2024 sized population.

The nonstop construction which is seemingly meant as Make Work projects that last years.

Arlington Heights is centrally located with expressways in all four directions. It's cleaner. It's safer. O'Hare Airport is right there. The 326 acres make anything possible. Arlington Heights is in C(r)ook County so there is still that drama, but nothing is perfect.

Either location, assuming each one is a dome which I believe they are, puts Chicago on the map for meaningful events.

Remember, this project is about so much more than just Bears games and that's why I'm surprised (not really knowing Illinois) that the politicians are having the shit fit they are over this project.

But for me, if they put the new stadium in Chicago, I'm not doing it unless if I'm hiring a driver to take me back and forth (which I've done for other occasions down there). I cannot stand Chicago. I do not feel safe there and I do not understand the love people have for that place. Maybe in the glory days from like 40 years ago or whatever there was a romance with the place, but that is long gone.

If it's in Arlington Heights, I would totally go to a game and feel safe and excited about it, but for Chicago, forget it.

https://wgntv.com/sports/bears-report/h ... 2C%20Texas.
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southdakbearfan wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 10:28 pm It was always going to be AH after they bought the property. The rest is just games about lowering taxes.
The worst possible negotiating position is to be negotiating against yourself. That where the Bears were and that’s what KW had to fix.

By talking to Chicago, Warren:
1) Gave himself air cover with the “never leave the city” contingent. (“We really tried to stay in the city!”)

2) Figured out the parameters of political financial support. (What is the true appetite from Springfield to get behind a stadium project?)

3) Made himself look humble & ever so slightly vulnerable. (Nobody likes an arrogant @$$hole from out of town. “Losing” the lakefront deal gives the impression of him being taken down a peg.)

4) MOST IMPORTANTLY: Got AH back to the negotiating table by making it clear they weren’t the only game in town.

This guy knows what he’s doing.
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I grew up in Chicago and lived for several years at our near the lake front. I started going to games when they were at Wrigley and then moved with them to SF.
I think that both dplank and Marshall have a point.
Chicago isn't Dallas or Atlanta, the Bears are a plank franchise in the NFL. Chicago is the home of the best and most long suffering fans in the sports world.
The team deserves to stay in Chicago, the fans deserve it too.

But it seems that the city and in particular that area has been deteriorating for years. I says "seems" because I have only been back a few times in the last several years.
But each time, everything appeared a bit more shabby then the time before.

But there is also Grant Park, the Field Museum, the Shedd Aquarium and the Planetarium. And more history in one square block than Arlington has in all 16.64 square miles.
An investment in such an important part of the states most important city should at least be on the table.

I don't know the politics and I don't care, I am a Bears fand and have been for better than 60 years. I'm never going to change, but the team has to, and it will do what it has to do. Ownership has finally got the people in place to make it happen.

If Chicago does not want them, they will go elsewhere. If it happens it will be sad day for the team and the city.

And dplank, I know you where making a point but don't ever mention Ginos and Little Caesers in the same sentence. it's effective but it confers a dignity on Little Caesers that it in no way deserves.
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I live in a different state. I've been to Soldier Field once for a game, once inside it was great. Getting to the stadium during the summer was easier the other trip I made to the city, but it wasn't easy. At least not for a no nothing tourist like me. Once I got to the stadium it was more difficult than any other stadium Ive been to to actually get inside (Gillette, giants stadium, redskins are the 3 I'm remembering)

Giants stadium when it first opened is beautiful(I was at the game that Cutler got sacked 300 times). The Bears deserve something that one ups that. No one around here(I live in CT) cares that the Giants stadium isn't in the city. It's not even in New York, it's in the shit hole that is New Jersey! It's right off the highway and very easy to get into. People make day trips to it all the time for Giants games. Way easier then it would be going into NYC. That's a nightmare. The crime rate in Chicago is definitely a deterrent and why I haven't been back. If Im spending money on a trip for my family(wife and 2 young kids) Chicago only comes up because I'm a Bears fan and quickly we decide otherwise. Chicago isn't city people outside of it are like yeah let's go to Chi-town! It just isn't. So I get what @The Marshall Plan is saying.

But it is a beautiful city imo. The lake is beautiful especially with the shots they take during games. With a state of the art dome on the lake that would be the kind of images that last decades. So I get what @dplank is saying too. Imagine CW hoisting the Halas trophy during the post game victory with the window showing the Chicago skyline in the background and snow falling? Priceless

At the end of the day this, be it AH or Chicago or Mars for that matter, just get the Bears a State of the art stadium befitting the founding franchise of the NFL. It's beyond time. And Jesus Chris McCaskeys put more then 60,000 seats in, it's embarrassing. You don't need the biggest stadium but you shouldn't have the smallest either.
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HurricaneBear wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 4:10 pm I live in a different state. I've been to Soldier Field once for a game, once inside it was great. Getting to the stadium during the summer was easier the other trip I made to the city, but it wasn't easy. At least not for a no nothing tourist like me. Once I got to the stadium it was more difficult than any other stadium Ive been to to actually get inside (Gillette, giants stadium, redskins are the 3 I'm remembering)

Giants stadium when it first opened is beautiful(I was at the game that Cutler got sacked 300 times). The Bears deserve something that one ups that. No one around here(I live in CT) cares that the Giants stadium isn't in the city. It's not even in New York, it's in the shit hole that is New Jersey! It's right off the highway and very easy to get into. People make day trips to it all the time for Giants games. Way easier then it would be going into NYC. That's a nightmare. The crime rate in Chicago is definitely a deterrent and why I haven't been back. If Im spending money on a trip for my family(wife and 2 young kids) Chicago only comes up because I'm a Bears fan and quickly we decide otherwise. Chicago isn't city people outside of it are like yeah let's go to Chi-town! It just isn't. So I get what @The Marshall Plan is saying.

But it is a beautiful city imo. The lake is beautiful especially with the shots they take during games. With a state of the art dome on the lake that would be the kind of images that last decades. So I get what @dplank is saying too. Imagine CW hoisting the Halas trophy during the post game victory with the window showing the Chicago skyline in the background and snow falling? Priceless

At the end of the day this, be it AH or Chicago or Mars for that matter, just get the Bears a State of the art stadium befitting the founding franchise of the NFL. It's beyond time. And Jesus Chris McCaskeys put more then 60,000 seats in, it's embarrassing. You don't need the biggest stadium but you shouldn't have the smallest either.
For the record I do respect what Plank is saying. I get it. The Bears are an original founding franchise with the history, the Halas Family, Soldier Field and all of that.

There's an emotional attachment to Chicago and everything. But I think this opportunity is a once in a lifetime thing and AH is the better location.

If the city could work something out where the Eisenhower and some of those other roads were modernized for 2024 traffic levels that would help, but I don't see that happening given that there's seemingly no available land to make the Eisenhower 5 lanes in each direction, Lake Shore Drive, and some of those other highways.

I do wonder how Mayor Johnson reconciles his desire to keep the Bears in Chicago with the also Democrat controlled state legislature and governor's office not wanting to commit state funding to a new stadium.

The Democratic Party controls the City Of Chicago and the State Of Illinois so it's odd to me that there's the perception of a conflict here.

None of that is intended to be political. It just seems to me that the Democrats in Springfield and the Democrats in Chicago would want the same thing.
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Heinz D. wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 10:24 am
Bearfacts wrote: Sat Jun 29, 2024 5:37 pm Yes, of course I do and I'll stand by what I posted. The lakefront stadium is Kevin Warren's vision for a world class stadium in Chicago and I believe he's far from finished pursuing it. Arlington Heights is now the backup plan. The Bears seem to have made that clear.
Huh?

How so?
dplank wrote: Sat Jun 29, 2024 5:38 pm “Go big”, the catch phrase, doesn’t mean sq ft. Going big would be building downtown and going after the big vision. It’s more expensive and harder to pull off, but I hope they stay the course
Surprised to hear you say that, tbh. It seems to me Arlington Heights is BY FAR the better option. Build a damn Bears museum. Build a funky Bears shopping mall. They can have it be so much more than just a new stadium if they build in AH--they can also make it a tourist attraction. It would also represent a better candidate for other big sporting events. Holding, say, the Big Ten Championship Game in AH is a whole order of magnitude easier, logistically speaking.
Plank nailed it. I think we can tell or at least we should be able to tell from the artists renderings that what Kevin Warren envisions is a world class stadium in a very unique location that keeps the Bears in the city proper. He did much the same in Minneapolis. I believe a lakefront stadium is his vision far more than the one Teddy Bears concocted in AH.

Is a cookie cutter suburban stadium with a massive shopping and entertainment district a better option? I don't believe Kevin Warren thinks that way. He's not looking to build an amusement park/commercial tourist attraction around his football stadium. He wants the stadium itself to be the feature attraction. I'm curious to know what the McCaskey's favor.

I'm not indicating that AH is off the table. It's obviously not. But what I am indicating is how I believe Kevin Warren sees all of this.
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Bearfacts wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 5:41 pm
Heinz D. wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 10:24 am
Huh?

How so?


Surprised to hear you say that, tbh. It seems to me Arlington Heights is BY FAR the better option. Build a damn Bears museum. Build a funky Bears shopping mall. They can have it be so much more than just a new stadium if they build in AH--they can also make it a tourist attraction. It would also represent a better candidate for other big sporting events. Holding, say, the Big Ten Championship Game in AH is a whole order of magnitude easier, logistically speaking.
Plank nailed it. I think we can tell or at least we should be able to tell from the artists renderings that what Kevin Warren envisions is a world class stadium in a very unique location that keeps the Bears in the city proper. He did much the same in Minneapolis. I believe a lakefront stadium is his vision far more than the one Teddy Bears concocted in AH.

Is a cookie cutter suburban stadium with a massive shopping and entertainment district a better option? I don't believe Kevin Warren thinks that way. He's not looking to build an amusement park/commercial tourist attraction around his football stadium. He wants the stadium itself to be the feature attraction. I'm curious to know what the McCaskey's favor.

I'm not indicating that AH is off the table. It's obviously not. But what I am indicating is how I believe Kevin Warren sees all of this.
AH and development would be a printing press for the Bears and money, from naming rights to controlling all revenue from parking to concessions (beer alone will make them a fortune) to development around the stadium. Concerts. NCAA events. Possibly Olympic qualfiers. I'd have to think that would be a major inducement.
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Grizzled wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 7:38 pm
Bearfacts wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 5:41 pm

Plank nailed it. I think we can tell or at least we should be able to tell from the artists renderings that what Kevin Warren envisions is a world class stadium in a very unique location that keeps the Bears in the city proper. He did much the same in Minneapolis. I believe a lakefront stadium is his vision far more than the one Teddy Bears concocted in AH.

Is a cookie cutter suburban stadium with a massive shopping and entertainment district a better option? I don't believe Kevin Warren thinks that way. He's not looking to build an amusement park/commercial tourist attraction around his football stadium. He wants the stadium itself to be the feature attraction. I'm curious to know what the McCaskey's favor.

I'm not indicating that AH is off the table. It's obviously not. But what I am indicating is how I believe Kevin Warren sees all of this.
AH and development would be a printing press for the Bears and money, from naming rights to controlling all revenue from parking to concessions (beer alone will make them a fortune) to development around the stadium. Concerts. NCAA events. Possibly Olympic qualfiers. I'd have to think that would be a major inducement.
All possibilities but then I have one simple question. If AH has been the target all along why has Kevin Warren been pushing so much harder for a lakefront stadium? He's politicking pretty heavily for it and the Bears have obviously spent some serious money on an overall plan and stadium design for that site. Do you believe it's all just a ruse to bring AH back to the table to negotiate the tax issue?
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Bearfacts wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 8:39 pm All possibilities but then I have one simple question. If AH has been the target all along why has Kevin Warren been pushing so much harder for a lakefront stadium? He's politicking pretty heavily for it and the Bears have obviously spent some serious money on an overall plan and stadium design for that site. Do you believe it's all just a ruse to bring AH back to the table to negotiate the tax issue?
I think they're bound and determined to get a fancy new stadium, and they want it to be within the 90 mile radius of the city proper, so that the team can still call itself "the Chicago Bears".

That's it. The long, and the short.

Wherever that stadium happens to be is just fine with them...provided they will make A LOT more money off of it.

There's no intrigue, really. No subterfuge. The Bears just want a new stadium, and quickly. Which is great, as they've been pretty moronic, and not at all pro-active, in the past. I'll be happy wherever they build it, but it looks like it's gonna be in Arlington Heights. Which is the better option, by far.
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Bearfacts wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 8:39 pm If AH has been the target all along why has Kevin Warren been pushing so much harder for a lakefront stadium? He's politicking pretty heavily for it and the Bears have obviously spent some serious money on an overall plan and stadium design for that site. Do you believe it's all just a ruse to bring AH back to the table to negotiate the tax issue?
Yes, I do. And I posted my reasoning at length upthread.

One thing I want to address: Why do folks assume that an AH stadium would be “cookie cutter?” SoFi was built under similar circumstances to AH and it’s anything but.

If you remember the concept drawings for AH, they were pretty outstanding— and that was without even seeing the stadium yet.

AH represents an amazing opportunity to do something really special.
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Bearfacts wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 8:39 pm
Grizzled wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 7:38 pm

AH and development would be a printing press for the Bears and money, from naming rights to controlling all revenue from parking to concessions (beer alone will make them a fortune) to development around the stadium. Concerts. NCAA events. Possibly Olympic qualfiers. I'd have to think that would be a major inducement.
All possibilities but then I have one simple question. If AH has been the target all along why has Kevin Warren been pushing so much harder for a lakefront stadium? He's politicking pretty heavily for it and the Bears have obviously spent some serious money on an overall plan and stadium design for that site. Do you believe it's all just a ruse to bring AH back to the table to negotiate the tax issue?
A better deal and he helped the mayor save face.

Now AH is back at the table wheeling and dealing.
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