Kingsbury backs out of Raiders job, joins Commanders

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Everyone seems to be assuming that this is because the Commanders and the Bears have a deal in principal and that Washington will move up one spot for Williams. Total conjecture, but the dots can be connected.

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I watch alot of indie or low-budget horror movies and sometimes a character will seem weird or creepy and I can't decide whether that character is the killer or the actor is just not very good. That's how I feel here: Is there a master strategy or are a couple of struggling organizations doing a bad job of dealing with a candidate who is a douchebag. In this case I think I'm inclined to bet on incompetence.

If they are planning the trade, I'm happy to have some 1st round picks from the commanders because that team is gonna suck these next few years and the NFC East is rough.
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FWIW - I've seen on another board that the Raiders weren't willing to guarantee Kliff a 3rd year and that's what tanked the deal with the Raiders.
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I also don't believe there is an assumption that there is a 'deal in place' - I think everyone just assumes that Washington is prepared to make a Godfather offer for the first pick.
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crueltyabc wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2024 11:51 am I watch alot of indie or low-budget horror movies and sometimes a character will seem weird or creepy and I can't decide whether that character is the killer or the actor is just not very good. That's how I feel here: Is there a master strategy or are a couple of struggling organizations doing a bad job of dealing with a candidate who is a douchebag. In this case I think I'm inclined to bet on incompetence.

If they are planning the trade, I'm happy to have some 1st round picks from the commanders because that team is gonna suck these next few years and the NFC East is rough.
I would hesitate to use the words “Washington Commanders” and “master strategy” in the same sentence.
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wab
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Magilla_Gorilla wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2024 11:55 am FWIW - I've seen on another board that the Raiders weren't willing to guarantee Kliff a 3rd year and that's what tanked the deal with the Raiders.
\

I also don't believe there is an assumption that there is a 'deal in place' - I think everyone just assumes that Washington is prepared to make a Godfather offer for the first pick.
Yeah, you are probably right. Twitter widely assumes that and even in the GMFB segment they mention that you don't make this move without a plan. But yeah, it could just be that the Raiders and Commanders are dysfunctional...they are.

Getting Williams would be a massive boost to their rebranding efforts though.
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I'm not going to count on a huge Commando offer, but I guess it's possible.

And that would make Drake Maye evaluations very interesting and important.
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wab wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2024 12:07 pm
Magilla_Gorilla wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2024 11:55 am FWIW - I've seen on another board that the Raiders weren't willing to guarantee Kliff a 3rd year and that's what tanked the deal with the Raiders.
\

I also don't believe there is an assumption that there is a 'deal in place' - I think everyone just assumes that Washington is prepared to make a Godfather offer for the first pick.
Yeah, you are probably right. Twitter widely assumes that and even in the GMFB segment they mention that you don't make this move without a plan. But yeah, it could just be that the Raiders and Commanders are dysfunctional...they are.

Getting Williams would be a massive boost to their rebranding efforts though.
I also think you have to hire Kingsbury on his merits - either you want him as your OC or you don't - regardless whether or not a trade for 1 comes to fruition. If they're only hiring him in hopes that Caleb forces his way to Washington - then I hope if backfires spectacularly.
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Doubt it would be a “godfather offer” to move up one space.

Probably offer us our R2 pick back.
Basically Sweat to move up 1 space.
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I think they hired him with Williams in mind, but I also think they hired him for his merits. Both can be true.
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My "Madden GM Chocolate Rivers and Lollipop Fields" dream would be for the Commanders to give the Bears The #2, the #101, and Allen.
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wab wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2024 12:16 pm My "Madden GM Chocolate Rivers and Lollipop Fields" dream would be for the Commanders to give the Bears The #2, the #101, and Allen.
Draft Marv at 2, EDGE at 9, and see what happens. Maybe it's magic
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Moriarty wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2024 12:08 pm I'm not going to count on a huge Commando offer, but I guess it's possible.

And that would make Drake Maye evaluations very interesting and important.

LOL...Huge Commando. Great stage name, too.
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I'm hoping that this rumor is correct. I'd love to see the Commanders give up a 2024 R1 & Payne, and a 2025 R1 pick. I'm guessing Washington is going to be terrible next year, so they would be a great trade partner.
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Bears Whiskey Nut wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2024 12:29 pm I'm hoping that this rumor is correct. I'd love to see the Commanders give up a 2024 R1 & R2, 2025 R1 pick, plus Daron Payne.
:rofl:

Ryan Pace would love to see that too, take the attention away from his crazy trade ups :lol:
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Yea, TONS of conjecture to tie this to any sort of Caleb thing. I really doubt that.
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The Cooler King wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2024 12:31 pm Yea, TONS of conjecture to tie this to any sort of Caleb thing. I really doubt that.
Yes it’s conjecture, but you can very easily connect the dots. I don’t think they talked him out of going to the Raiders just to come coach Sam Howell or Drake Maye.

That might ultimately be what he does, but it’s reasonable to infer that they said “hey we have a shat at landing Caleb if you choose us instead of Vegas”.
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wab wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2024 12:36 pm
The Cooler King wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2024 12:31 pm Yea, TONS of conjecture to tie this to any sort of Caleb thing. I really doubt that.
Yes it’s conjecture, but you can very easily connect the dots. I don’t think they talked him out of going to the Raiders just to come coach Sam Howell or Drake Maye.

That might ultimately be what he does, but it’s reasonable to infer that they said “hey we have a shat at landing Caleb if you choose us instead of Vegas”.
I'm not sure that dramatically changed from when he reportedly originally agreed to Raiders job though. Contract breakdown seems way more likely explanation.
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Bears Whiskey Nut wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2024 12:29 pm I'm hoping that this rumor is correct. I'd love to see the Commanders give up a 2024 R1 & R2, 2025 R1 pick, plus Daron Payne.
Whatever the deal winds up being, guess what we should do with the 2 pick?

Yep.

Trade down again.
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2024 12:46 pm
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2024 12:29 pm I'm hoping that this rumor is correct. I'd love to see the Commanders give up a 2024 R1 & R2, 2025 R1 pick, plus Daron Payne.
Whatever the deal winds up being, guess what we should do with the 2 pick?

Yep.

Trade down again.
Yes! Trade down with the Giants, pick up another 2025 R1, and more picks for 2024. Draft Ondunze.
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crueltyabc wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2024 12:20 pm
wab wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2024 12:16 pm My "Madden GM Chocolate Rivers and Lollipop Fields" dream would be for the Commanders to give the Bears The #2, the #101, and Allen.
Draft Marv at 2, EDGE at 9, and see what happens. Maybe it's magic
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Bears Whiskey Nut wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2024 12:51 pm
The Marshall Plan wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2024 12:46 pm

Whatever the deal winds up being, guess what we should do with the 2 pick?

Yep.

Trade down again.
Yes! Trade down with the Giants, pick up another 2025 R1, and more picks for 2024. Draft Ondunze.
The Giants at 6? Yeah I’d do that trade all day long. Then draft Odunze.
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wab wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2024 12:36 pm That might ultimately be what he does, but it’s reasonable to infer that they said “hey we have a shat at landing Caleb if you choose us instead of Vegas”.
I'm not sure telling someone you have a "shat" is a selling point! :lol:
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HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2024 1:36 pm
wab wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2024 12:36 pm That might ultimately be what he does, but it’s reasonable to infer that they said “hey we have a shat at landing Caleb if you choose us instead of Vegas”.
I'm not sure telling someone you have a "shat" is a selling point! :lol:
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Ditka’s dictaphone wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2024 12:31 pm
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2024 12:29 pm I'm hoping that this rumor is correct. I'd love to see the Commanders give up a 2024 R1 & R2, 2025 R1 pick, plus Daron Payne.
:rofl:

Ryan Pace would love to see that too, take the attention away from his crazy trade ups :lol:
I don't know how far off that might be. Someone posted somewhere that due to the market to try and get to one to draft Williams, the starting point for the Redskins might be #2, a second round pick and R1 in '25. If Poles can use the leverage of Williams, adding Payne or maybe the pick we gave them for Sweat isn't completely crazy. I do think that is a trade that would happen later rather than sooner. Boils down to who blinks first.

Again I think I'd prefer Payne over another second round pick as it likely increases the slotting for the '25 first round pick.
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The thing about getting one of these top vets is the cap space.
Payne is on a decent wedge. JJ still to be re-signed/tagged.
What have we got left in cap space? 40 million or something?
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Ditka’s dictaphone wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2024 3:33 pm The thing about getting one of these top vets is the cap space.
Payne is on a decent wedge. JJ still to be re-signed/tagged.
What have we got left in cap space? 40 million or something?
Looking at his contract https://overthecap.com/player/daron-payne/6898 I don't think they could trade him. He would be a $37.4M cap hit. Maybe if you work out some sort of deal that after June 1 we gave them a 6th round pick and got Payne and a 7th. But I don't think you can include such things in a trade. If they did that his cap hit is ONLY $15.8M.

If you could get Payne his cap hits over the next 3 years would be roughly $16M, $20.5M and $22.5M since his signing bonuses wouldn't factor into our cost.
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Jonathan Allen is the more tradeable player.
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wab wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2024 4:05 pm Jonathan Allen is the more tradeable player.
By a long shot https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/washington- ... len-21758/

He'd only be a $15M cap hit to them. But we'd only get 2 years rather than 3 with hits of $15.5M and $17M when you take out the signing bonus.
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I'm glad Kingsbury wound up in Washington as it is historically one of my least favorite franchises. I don't read much into the Williams Connection, short of them putting a big offer on the table.
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I think that Commanders new Front Office wants to show it's fans that it's serious about being a contending franchise, and is going to make a big (yet ill-advised) splash and land Caleb Williams. They also know that CW will put more butts in the seats than Drake Maye will.
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