6 names to add this offseason

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wab
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Normally I don't advocate for pending free agents who just came off a good performance in a super bowl, because they generally get overpaid. But Jauan Jennings might be an interesting get.
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dplank
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I hear you. I still can't get the images of Chris Jones pushing everyone around last night out of my head, and dreaming of a scenario where he's a Bear. Line him up with Dexter and Sweat and holy mother of god our DL will terrorize people.
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dplank wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:03 pm I hear you. I still can't get the images of Chris Jones pushing everyone around last night out of my head, and dreaming of a scenario where he's a Bear. Line him up with Dexter and Sweat and holy mother of god our DL will terrorize people.
Can you imagine Sweat/Dexter/Jones/Hunter? Yeesh.
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wab wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:48 pm
dplank wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:03 pm I hear you. I still can't get the images of Chris Jones pushing everyone around last night out of my head, and dreaming of a scenario where he's a Bear. Line him up with Dexter and Sweat and holy mother of god our DL will terrorize people.
Can you imagine Sweat/Dexter/Jones/Hunter? Yeesh.
Sounds like Dent, Hampton, Perry, and McMichael!
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wab wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:48 pm
dplank wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:03 pm I hear you. I still can't get the images of Chris Jones pushing everyone around last night out of my head, and dreaming of a scenario where he's a Bear. Line him up with Dexter and Sweat and holy mother of god our DL will terrorize people.
Can you imagine Sweat/Dexter/Jones/Hunter? Yeesh.
That’s close to a $75M Defensive Line.
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FA:
Hunter - DE
Fant - TE
Winfield - S

(no way is Poles paying that much in FA though. I also like the idea of Biadasz C from Dallas and think he might be the one most likely signed).

Draft
Harrison (trade to 3 with NE)
Turner (unless we sign Hunter then go Bowers)
Fraizier C WEst Virginia (but depending on FA/draft, I like could be Nubin, Coleman WR FSU, Cooper Beebee G Kansas State, or maybe a QB like Nix if he slips). If we get a pick at the top of the second round, there are several guys I like who should be there for the taking).
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wulfy wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 2:28 pm
wab wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:48 pm

Can you imagine Sweat/Dexter/Jones/Hunter? Yeesh.
That’s close to a $75M Defensive Line.
That’s why I’m only imagining it. The Bears might splurge at one position on the DL, but not two.
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I'm not familiar with a lot of players outside of Chicago so I've had to look up those being mentioned.
wab wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 11:13 am Evan Brown - Center from Seattle.
- Not a superstar, but very steady and will only be 27
- Knows the offense
Isn't this pretty much what was said about Lucas Patrick? Please tell me Brown's a lot better and much less injury prone!

He was undrafted and bounced around a bit for a couple of years before latching on in Detroit and then playing last season in Seattle on a 1-year $2.5m deal. Please tell me he's better than Sam Mustipher!

He sounds like a guy who could be a stop-gap for a center taken in the draft rather than a long-term solution.
wab wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 11:13 am K'Lavon Chaisson - Edge from Jacksonville
- Got caught up in a scheme change in Jacksonville, but has loads of potential as a pass rusher
- I prefer Hunter, but I fear he will price himself higher than the Bears are willing to spend
Chaisson's only had 5 sacks in 4 seasons which is a world away from Hunter. Why do you see "loads of potential" in him and what do you think he's likely to cost?
wulfy wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 11:46 am WR Curtis Samuel
He looks interesting having been drafted by the Panthers 1 year before DJ Moore. In the 3 years they played together in Carolina he put up some pretty decent numbers whilst Moore was racking up a succession of 1,100 yard seasons and we know all about the carousel of QBs they had.

2018: 13 games (8 starts), 39 catches from 65 targets (60.0%), 494 yards (12.7 ypc), 5 TD
2019: 16 games (15 starts), 54 catches from 105 targets (51.4%), 627 yards (11.6 ypc), 6 TD
2020: 15 games (5 starts), 77 catches from 97 targets (79.4%), 852 yards (11.1 ypc), 3 TD

His first season in Washington was cut short but the last two he's caught over 60 passes for more than 600 yards with 4 TD each time.

Spotrac has his value at 3 years for $34.6m, an average per year of $11.54m.

Compared to Mooney he's only a year older, is the same height but 20lb heavier, and his Spotrac valuation is only $1m a year more per year so he could be an ideal replacement.
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wab wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 5:50 pm
wulfy wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 2:28 pm

That’s close to a $75M Defensive Line.
That’s why I’m only imagining it. The Bears might splurge at one position on the DL, but not two.
That may be a part of the reason they are going to dump Fields though. The cap savings from resetting the QB pay scale and not spend 50-60+ million /year for 1 player, can allow you to pay more than you normally would for FA's at other positions.
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Atkins&Rebel wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 6:27 pm
wab wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 5:50 pm That’s why I’m only imagining it. The Bears might splurge at one position on the DL, but not two.
That may be a part of the reason they are going to dump Fields though. The cap savings from resetting the QB pay scale and not spend 50-60+ million /year for 1 player, can allow you to pay more than you normally would for FA's at other positions.
A rookie QB taken first overall will actually cost nearly a million more in terms of cap hit next season than Fields.

Also they're not going to be paying Fields $50-60m+ for at least another year and if they dump him and draft a QB who does work out then they'll be paying him that type of money in 3 years time anyway, so it's really only moving the big QB spend back by a couple of years (assuming either pans out).

As has been discussed elsewhere, there's also the low cost of additional draft picks from a large trade down for the first overall pick to consider too. That would free up more cap space for high priced veterans.
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cblaz11 wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:30 am I think no matter the QB, the expectation for 2024 is playoffs. This roster has improved significantly the past two offseasons, but this upcoming offseason will be the most challenging for Poles and crew. Give me 6 names, 3 through free agency and 3 through the draft that you would consider a perfect offseason. Any positions…as far as draft, tell me where you take the player

Draft

QB Caleb Williams -1 overall
DE Dallas Turner- 9 overall
WR Keon Coleman- 2nd round


Free agency-

Safety Antoine Winfield
RB Saquan Barkley
OC Tyler Biadasz
It's hard for me to 100% reconcile the expectation of Rookie QB + Playoffs. It can happen, it usually doesn't.
2023 Preseason Downside prediction:
5-6 wins, never really healthy all season, a constant shuffling.
We're potentially in a position to draft in the Top 5 again, depending on the Carolina team, and probably have a low-teens (or better) pick ourselves.
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HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 7:18 pm
Atkins&Rebel wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 6:27 pm

That may be a part of the reason they are going to dump Fields though. The cap savings from resetting the QB pay scale and not spend 50-60+ million /year for 1 player, can allow you to pay more than you normally would for FA's at other positions.
A rookie QB taken first overall will actually cost nearly a million more in terms of cap hit next season than Fields.

Also they're not going to be paying Fields $50-60m+ for at least another year and if they dump him and draft a QB who does work out then they'll be paying him that type of money in 3 years time anyway, so it's really only moving the big QB spend back by a couple of years (assuming either pans out).

As has been discussed elsewhere, there's also the low cost of additional draft picks from a large trade down for the first overall pick to consider too. That would free up more cap space for high priced veterans.
The discussion assumed that all those extra draft picks would be productive starters at the rookie cost.
So if everything worked out great and Fields was playing well, it was cheaper to keep building.
But that analysis was best case possible...all draft picks seldom work out and Fields is on his way out.

Right now we'll be 5 years away from 50-60-70 mil stuck into 1 player (if he pans out). We don't have extra draft picks. So we can afford to splurge at crucial positions even if we only want to give out 3-4 year deals. (or structure longer deals in a way that we can get away from them after 3-4 years).
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BreadNCircuses wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 7:59 pm
It's hard for me to 100% reconcile the expectation of Rookie QB + Playoffs. It can happen, it usually doesn't.
The apparent news that the team is moving on from Fields along with the Waldron hire suggests that the Bears brought in Waldron with the expectation that he can be a teaching coach and not just throw a rookie into the grinder and expect him to be a pro from day 1.

Waldron's work with an historically bad Geno Smith (and his likely pitched plan to work with the various QB possibilities) is why he was hired.
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Atkins&Rebel wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 8:00 pm
HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 7:18 pm

A rookie QB taken first overall will actually cost nearly a million more in terms of cap hit next season than Fields.

Also they're not going to be paying Fields $50-60m+ for at least another year and if they dump him and draft a QB who does work out then they'll be paying him that type of money in 3 years time anyway, so it's really only moving the big QB spend back by a couple of years (assuming either pans out).

As has been discussed elsewhere, there's also the low cost of additional draft picks from a large trade down for the first overall pick to consider too. That would free up more cap space for high priced veterans.
The discussion assumed that all those extra draft picks would be productive starters at the rookie cost.
So if everything worked out great and Fields was playing well, it was cheaper to keep building.
But that analysis was best case possible...all draft picks seldom work out and Fields is on his way out.

Right now we'll be 5 years away from 50-60-70 mil stuck into 1 player (if he pans out). We don't have extra draft picks. So we can afford to splurge at crucial positions even if we only want to give out 3-4 year deals. (or structure longer deals in a way that we can get away from them after 3-4 years).
I agree that it depends on those picks panning out. But trading Fields and drafting a new QB requires the new QB pan out.

It all boils down to Pole's evaluation of each route. I feel much better about him doing it than Pace, Emery or pretty much anyone we've had in that spot since Finks.
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Not just that Ark, trading Fields requires the new QB to not just pan out, but to be elite. Elite play is the only way one can justify passing on a historic trade down haul. And the odds are just very much against that happening. Could it happen? Yes, it could, but historically speaking it's unlikely.

On the flip side, all we need Poles to do is draft just as well as he has his first two drafts here. They weren't perfect, he had some misses in there, but generally he has done really well with his draft picks and I trust him to do well again.

He just has a lower bar to cross in the trade down scenario.
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I do think that doubling down on Fields comes with much more of a significant risk for Poles than you are giving credit for DP. If Fields falters again and one of Williams/Maye/Daniels succeeds, it's very likely that Poles is out next year, along with everyone else.

Maybe that's what some folks secretly want because it means the end of Eberflus or whatever.

Nothing short of a strong push in the playoffs is going to be considered a success for Fields. Not just eeking out a 7th seed, and getting waxed in the super wildcard round, but a solid 12 win season and a push in the playoffs. That has to be the expectation if Fields is kept.

Conversely, I think the expectations of a Williams or Maye are a little lighter...playoffs should still be the expectation, because after FA and the draft, this should be considered a playoff caliber roster.

I digress...I don't want this to become yet another Fields thread.
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I suppose that makes sense, but I don't think Poles is in any trouble whatsoever and if the team plays at all decent he should be totally safe. With this defense on the upward trend it's on, that feels like a safe bet to me. Keeping Fields would mean minimal change to the team that was just playing playoff caliber football for 2 straight months, so it feels unlikely to me that we would fall backwards unless we have a bunch of injuries.

And that's not even counting the improvements we'd be certain to make from that trade down haul.

To be clear, I love me some Ryan Poles and I'm not worried about Flus / no Flus. Right now Flus is our guy and we can win with him IMO. Stay the course!
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dplank wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 11:07 am I suppose that makes sense, but I don't think Poles is in any trouble whatsoever and if the team plays at all decent he should be totally safe. With this defense on the upward trend it's on, that feels like a safe bet to me. Keeping Fields would mean minimal change to the team that was just playing playoff caliber football for 2 straight months, so it feels unlikely to me that we would fall backwards unless we have a bunch of injuries.

And that's not even counting the improvements we'd be certain to make from that trade down haul.

To be clear, I love me some Ryan Poles and I'm not worried about Flus / no Flus. Right now Flus is our guy and we can win with him IMO. Stay the course!
I agree that Poles is in no danger at all right now.
I do think that a second consecutive season of passing on a rookie QB, if a rookie is successful, could bring his judgement into question if his chosen QB doesn't progress. (Which is admittedly a lot of "if"s.)

Poles doesn't strike me as the play-it-safe type, so he'll do what he thinks is the best choice for the team, whatever he determines that to be.
KFFL refugee.

dplank wrote:I agree with Rich here
RichH55 wrote: Dplank is correct
:shocked:
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thunderspirit wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 11:26 am Poles doesn't strike me as the play-it-safe type, so he'll do what he thinks is the best choice for the team, whatever he determines that to be.
Same. I read an article about the relationship between Poles and Warren. Warren said they meet almost every day, and Warren always ends the meeting with "Do you have what you need to win, and if not, what can I do to help - I don't want cost or fear getting in the way of winning" and I thought that was pretty damn cool.
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This thread is as good of one as any to put this in:

Had on an old Bears shirt in the gym this morning.
Guy with a Minnesota shirt asks me if I'm aware that we're supposedly rumored to trade #1 overall for Justin Jefferson?
I said I found that hard to believe but in Viking circles, I guess it's a hot topic.
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Atkins&Rebel wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 12:31 pm This thread is as good of one as any to put this in:

Had on an old Bears shirt in the gym this morning.
Guy with a Minnesota shirt asks me if I'm aware that we're supposedly rumored to trade #1 overall for Justin Jefferson?
I said I found that hard to believe but in Viking circles, I guess it's a hot topic.
Yea seems far fetched to me also. Jefferson just said he wants to reset the WR market, why would you give up the #1 pick knowing that?
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dplank wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 12:35 pm
Atkins&Rebel wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 12:31 pm This thread is as good of one as any to put this in:

Had on an old Bears shirt in the gym this morning.
Guy with a Minnesota shirt asks me if I'm aware that we're supposedly rumored to trade #1 overall for Justin Jefferson?
I said I found that hard to believe but in Viking circles, I guess it's a hot topic.
Yea seems far fetched to me also. Jefferson just said he wants to reset the WR market, why would you give up the #1 pick knowing that?
I'd consider it if the Vikings sign him with a the entire contract being a signing bonus or other payment where we don't have to pay for anything, but that's about it.
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LacertineForest wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 1:22 pm I'd consider it if the Vikings sign him with a the entire contract being a signing bonus or other payment where we don't have to pay for anything, but that's about it.
And give a division rival the chance to draft a "generational" QB? That's just madness.
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HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 8:14 pm
LacertineForest wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 1:22 pm I'd consider it if the Vikings sign him with a the entire contract being a signing bonus or other payment where we don't have to pay for anything, but that's about it.
And give a division rival the chance to draft a "generational" QB? That's just madness.
I meant it mostly as a joke - even with that scenario, they'd have to give up picks to even consider it. There has to be an un-refusable offer out there - even for division rivals, right?
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Atkins&Rebel wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 12:31 pm This thread is as good of one as any to put this in:

Had on an old Bears shirt in the gym this morning.
Guy with a Minnesota shirt asks me if I'm aware that we're supposedly rumored to trade #1 overall for Justin Jefferson?
I said I found that hard to believe but in Viking circles, I guess it's a hot topic.
Ok let me think here for a minute.

The #1 pick for Justin Jefferson and the Vikings 1st Rounder.

Flip that first Rounder and #9 for the #2 pick and grab Marvin Harrison Jr.

Fulfill my Super Duper Offense dreams with Jefferson, MHJ and Moore? YES PLEASE

You've sold me.
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dplank wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 10:19 am Not just that Ark, trading Fields requires the new QB to not just pan out, but to be elite. Elite play is the only way one can justify passing on a historic trade down haul. And the odds are just very much against that happening. Could it happen? Yes, it could, but historically speaking it's unlikely.

On the flip side, all we need Poles to do is draft just as well as he has his first two drafts here. They weren't perfect, he had some misses in there, but generally he has done really well with his draft picks and I trust him to do well again.

He just has a lower bar to cross in the trade down scenario.
Great post. That’s the toughest part to reconcile. I think we all think Fields can be top 15 and likely much better with the haul we get from trading. I think Poles has to believe Caleb (or other) is sniffing top 10 out of gates with what we already have which is better than most 1.01 QB step into. Problem is it’s really ballsy this year to pass on a generational QB. Last year we had a nice stretch from Fields and while Stroud exceeded expectations people didn’t view that class the same way.
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Ditka’s dictaphone wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 1:05 pm •A solid reliable good Center is priority 1
•If Tee Higgins makes it to FA then I’d get him.
•Danielle Hunter

Draft:
•A center definitely 2nd or 3rd round and I want Van Pran, Frazier or Powers-Johnson.
• T J Tampa CB Iowa State (2nd round)
• Calen Bullock S Utah (3rd round)

So at some point I’m going to need a trade down to get 2 second/third rounders :D
Callen Bullock USC or Cole Bishop Utah at S? I like both was just curious.
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HurricaneBear wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 10:31 pm
Atkins&Rebel wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 12:31 pm This thread is as good of one as any to put this in:

Had on an old Bears shirt in the gym this morning.
Guy with a Minnesota shirt asks me if I'm aware that we're supposedly rumored to trade #1 overall for Justin Jefferson?
I said I found that hard to believe but in Viking circles, I guess it's a hot topic.
Ok let me think here for a minute.

The #1 pick for Justin Jefferson and the Vikings 1st Rounder.

Flip that first Rounder and #9 for the #2 pick and grab Marvin Harrison Jr.

Fulfill my Super Duper Offense dreams with Jefferson, MHJ and Moore? YES PLEASE

You've sold me.
What if I told you I fantasize about drafting MHJ at 1 and then Odunze at 9?

Moore
MHJ
Odunze

YOLO BABY!!!!
I Take The Field With Fields

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The Marshall Plan wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 6:26 am
HurricaneBear wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 10:31 pm

Ok let me think here for a minute.

The #1 pick for Justin Jefferson and the Vikings 1st Rounder.

Flip that first Rounder and #9 for the #2 pick and grab Marvin Harrison Jr.

Fulfill my Super Duper Offense dreams with Jefferson, MHJ and Moore? YES PLEASE

You've sold me.
What if I told you I fantasize about drafting MHJ at 1 and then Odunze at 9?

Moore
MHJ
Odunze

YOLO BABY!!!!
I'm not as big on Odunze as many of y'all. Unless he shows some more speed at the combine, I think he's gonna fall a bit in the draft. Size and production still gets him drafted in the 1st. But maybe drops into the 20's.

However, if Nabers is somehow sitting there at 9...
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 6:26 am What if I told you I fantasize about drafting MHJ at 1 and then Odunze at 9?
As long as your fantasies don't include Queen Latifah or goats you're good! :-P
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