What Bagent is up to

[Moriarty]

Bagent's a great story. And he performed extremely well relative to college competition level, relative to draft position, relative to pro experience.
But when you stop grading on a curve, what have you got? He had 2/4 games where he moved the ball successfully (225 yds/game), but 2 where he didn't (162 y/g). Both games he got yards, he also had interception problems (2 + 3). 3/4 games had passer ratings in the 60s/70s. His best rated game was his first one. He was heavy on the dink and dunk and didn't successfully push downfield much.
There's some minor promise there. But even if he grows into a solid backup, that's not a lot of value. We saw what Pickett and Fields brought in return. He'd have to do a lot more and convince people he's got real starter potential to net you much.

I for one would much rather stick with a developmental backup who has shown some good things than bring in a veteran with several years experience during which they've shown nothing of consequence. I'd sooner gamble on potential upside than run out a guy you already know has reached his ceiling and it isn't very high.

I don't know how many more times I can say "the veteran can just be insurance in case Bagent bombs".

But I do know how many times I'm going to...


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[RichH55]

I for one would much rather stick with a developmental backup who has shown some good things than bring in a veteran with several years experience during which they've shown nothing of consequence. I'd sooner gamble on potential upside than run out a guy you already know has reached his ceiling and it isn't very high.

I don't know how many more times I can say "the veteran can just be insurance in case Bagent bombs".

But I do know how many times I'm going to...


(0)

Alot

The Vet is our 3rd Option - Season is probably done at that point

[Moriarty]

And fundamentally I don't think you need a backup QB that's massively similar to your starter.

Neither do I. Who said anything about that?

So we're left with the kind of option that would cost $12.5m like Minshew, $10m for Darnold, $8m for Brissett. Well, I think the Titans have got a steal with Rudolph at under $3m but even there, I think I'd still rather see if Bagent can make an impression on this new coaching staff.

I did definitely say "what's left isn't very helpful anymore", though.

I'm glad you brought up Barkley. We could have kept him for peanuts and instead we brought in a vet backup at significant cost who stunk up the joint and we had to bail on soon anyway.

And did we miss out on something?
In the 7 years since he's been gone, he's been 3rd string PS QB or unrostered most of the time, with a grand total of 1 start.
You're not the one guy here who's obsessed with him, are you? I'm runnin' away, if that's you!

In terms of getting other players on the offence experience, who desperately needs it? Moore, Allen, Kmet, Everett... none of them need experience from a middling system QB in live games. And if the team feels like it needs a vet presence for guidance and mentoring, bring in that guy as a coach rather than counting him against the cap and the 53.

Fundamentally disagree.
You've got 20-25 players on offense. Not many are experienced in the system. A lot of them aren't even experienced, period. You can't afford to waste valuable time with one side of the ball crippled.

[Teddy KGB]

What in the fresh meatball hell is this thread?

Look, I like Bagent as much as the next guy, but he lacks an arm and no way he sees the field unless there is an injury.

This team is set up right now to make it very rookie-friendly; if they draft Williams, he starts.

The only debate to be had here is whether Bagent can beat out Rypien, who I think is familiar with Waldron. I know the depth chart has him ahead now, but that could change once training camp starts.

[Arkansasbear]

What in the fresh meatball hell is this thread?

Look, I like Bagent as much as the next guy, but he lacks an arm and no way he sees the field unless there is an injury.

This team is set up right now to make it very rookie-friendly; if they draft Williams, he starts.

The only debate to be had here is whether Bagent can beat out Rypien, who I think is familiar with Waldron. I know the depth chart has him ahead now, but that could change once training camp starts.

I think that unless Bagent bombs in training camp, he's the #2 and Rypien goes to the PS in case an injury happens. I think Rypien will go unclaimed and make it through waivers so he can go on the PS. I'd think that the same would be true for Bagent, but he is younger held his own (i.e didn't embarrass himself) in his starts. If there is a chance either of them would get scooped up it's him. So they play it save and stash Rypien on the PS. They can still divide up the reps as they choose.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Interesting 25 minute chat with Bagent and what he and his younger brother have been doing at 3DQB this offseason and other offseason training focusing on balance:

[RichH55]

What in the fresh meatball hell is this thread?

Look, I like Bagent as much as the next guy, but he lacks an arm and no way he sees the field unless there is an injury.

This team is set up right now to make it very rookie-friendly; if they draft Williams, he starts.

The only debate to be had here is whether Bagent can beat out Rypien, who I think is familiar with Waldron. I know the depth chart has him ahead now, but that could change once training camp starts.

Bagent isn't playing over Caleb - the rest is not the best take in the least.

Especially because Bagent is about to get one of the bigger bumps you can expect - A full offseason of professional level training with the team actually investing resources in you V. Shepard level stuff?

Rypien will be lucky to make the Practice Squad

[Arkansasbear]

What in the fresh meatball hell is this thread?

Look, I like Bagent as much as the next guy, but he lacks an arm and no way he sees the field unless there is an injury.

This team is set up right now to make it very rookie-friendly; if they draft Williams, he starts.

The only debate to be had here is whether Bagent can beat out Rypien, who I think is familiar with Waldron. I know the depth chart has him ahead now, but that could change once training camp starts.

Bagent isn't playing over Caleb - the rest is not the best take in the least.

Especially because Bagent is about to get one of the bigger bumps you can expect - A full offseason of professional level training with the team actually investing resources in you V. Shepard level stuff?

Rypien will be lucky to make the Practice Squad

I think Rypien has the inside track for the PS spot. They will keep a QB there and I'd assume they'd want a guy who has gone through training camp with the team. I guess it's possible that someone gets cut that the team thinks is an upgrade but that doesn't seem very likely. Most 3r d QBs who get cut and are headed to a PS would likely want to dance with the team that took them to the dance since they know the system and players.

I wondering if going into training camp if Bagent is listed as the starting QB day and the depth chart quickly changes or do they just put whoever they draft in the number 1 spot.

[HurricaneBear]

Caleb Williams is the starter the moment he holds that jersey on the podium draft night. No need to hide it. If they wanted to they would have signed a veteran by now.

Bagent should absolutely be the back up. If a worst case scenario happens and he is forced into playing and then gets hurt/shits the bed? Call one of the dozen Joe Flacco like guys sitting at home to come in and hope to catch lightning in a bottle.

[Noots]

I get a kick out of how so many people have already written off the rest of Bagent's career, and that he's now no longer even worthy of being a backup. He's going to develop.

Can his arm get stronger? Absolutely.

Can he elevate the rest of his game? Absolutely

Can the elevation of the rest of his game, in the absence of improving his arm strength equal better performance, or will he always be hindered by it? He can totally develop to where he can work around it.

And just as equally, he could fall right off a cliff. But if I were a betting man, I wouldn't bet against him locking up #2.

And none of the above is to suggest he deserves to take any snaps from CW13 or whomever the Bears draft.

Still gotta have a word with him about growing a mullet though...

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

I like Bagent, he’s hungry and he has a canon.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Bagent's shown the team can win with him if called upon, but of course the backup's role is more than just stepping in if the starter goes down. He's also there to help the starter prepare and to run the scout team and Bagent's a perfect guy for that. He's talked about how much experience he's had over the years and how many different schemes he's played in.

“I feel like I’ve played a million games at quarterback… I was able to win the job at high school in my sophomore year and then started every game through my senior year at college, so that’s seven years of understanding what the week of preparation looks like."

“Luckily enough, I was able to play a lot of football in college and really get exposed to all the situations football has to offer. I think that definitely serves a role."

“I have a pretty good understanding of what needs to happen and what doesn’t need to happen. And also, the mental load that it is to play quarterback in the NFL, it’s a lot."

[Moriarty]

I get a kick out of how so many people have already written off the rest of Bagent's career, and that he's now no longer even worthy of being a backup.

How many?

I count Teddy saying he might get bumped to the PS and...that's it.

Can his arm get stronger? Absolutely.

Can he elevate the rest of his game? Absolutely

Can the elevation of the rest of his game, in the absence of improving his arm strength equal better performance, or will he always be hindered by it? He can totally develop to where he can work around it.

I wouldn't hold my breath on the arm, though.

When do you ever hear coaches say "He's great at X & Y. Yeah, the arm strength's mediocre, but we can beef that up."?
That's why cannon arms are so prized - it's very rare to unheard of to develop them in your 20s - you've got it or you don't.

Bagent came from a low-budget program, so you might be able to nudge it up a little bit with pro strength & conditioning. But, at the same time, I have a hard time believing his dad, the arm-wrestling champion, doesn't know how to work the arm/shoulder/back, doesn't have decent equipment available, and never consulted an expert about what a QB needs (in terms of nuance like musculature vs flexibility, or whatever).
You can get a touch of extra velocity from mechanic clean-up, but that's very unlikely to be a big deal.


Probably the best chance for seeing him rip it more is the small hope that he was only dinking so much because of circumstance (coach insistence, lack of confidence/reps, lack of time to let more develop) and he had more all along than he was able to showcase last year.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

I seem to recall it said both Brady and Brees increased their arm strength notably after their rookie seasons. There's also this article I recalled reading re. Burrows:

Jordan Palmer helped Joe Burrow unlock his true arm talent

As soon as he was cleared to start throwing again, Cincinnati Bengals quarterback Joe Burrow went all out this offseason to improve his game.

Burrow reunited with quarterback trainer and former Bengals backup Jordan Palmer this year to enhance his throwing motion and mechanics to get more velocity on his passes.

Palmer has been training young QBs for years now, but only recently started using 3D motion capture technology to diagnose mechanical and footwork issues. He found that Burrow had slight warts in these areas and managed to eliminate them altogether.

Judging by the reactions from Burrow’s receivers during OTAs, the training seems to have worked.
...

Palmer believes that Burrow is indeed headed for a breakout season this year because, “He found a way to create more energy on the ball.” In a nutshell, Palmer showed that Burrow could create more torque on the ball by keeping his right heel on the ground and rotating his hips more.

After just a few days of training, Palmer said Burrow was registering 54 miles per hour on his throws.
...

Full article: https://www.cincyjungle.com/2021/7/24/2 ... rength-nfl

[Heinz D.]

What in the fresh meatball hell is this thread?

Look, I like Bagent as much as the next guy, but he lacks an arm and no way he sees the field unless there is an injury.

I like Bagent, he’s hungry and he has a canon.

Bagent has an adequate arm. His strengths are his decision making and quick release. He's like a poor man's Peyton Manning...and I mean that sincerely. Bagent could end up being really, really good. Check his time on the field last year @Teddy KGB . I think you'll end up agreeing with me.

However, if we draft Williams he's the starter. Unless he has an unforeseen problem adapting to the NFL--Bagent is #2.

The only debate to be had here is whether Bagent can beat out Rypien, who I think is familiar with Waldron. I know the depth chart has him ahead now, but that could change once training camp starts.

I honestly don't think there is any sort of competition between Bagent and Rypien, dude. I don't see it. I do think Rypien stays on the roster, though. There's just SO much sideline info he can provide about Waldron's offense...

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

@Heinz D. I was just quoting Bagent