Bears Big Board at current slots

[G08]

I firmly disagree with that argument.


It's technically true the Bears have had a lot of picks over the last 2-3 drafts - but a huge proportion of them were 6th and 7th round picks, which really don't matter. By that point in the draft, you're on lottery tickets. And what the Bears netted with all those late picks (not much) is very much in line with them being low value.

If you count R1-5, they've had 16 picks in the last 3 years (yes, 3 yrs ago wasn't a Poles draft, but it still affects what you have or don't have on your squad regardless), where 15 is the average.
They haven't had "a lot" of meaningful picks lately at all.


And that's with a starting point of a roster burned to the ground and 0 FAs of lasting consequence added in 2022.

This is a roster that still has plenty of depth improvement to go.
(And it's not as young as people think it is anymore, either. Poles added a lot of age this offseason.)



It's a fair matter for debate whether a star or a lot of depth and/or future starters helps more (although I will usually take the latter).
But claiming the team is fine on depth (or that your 3 & 4 will cover it all) is simply not true.

This isn't the 80's. You can't be three deep with starters at every position. The Bears need another WR, another offensive lineman, a 3rd TE, a backup to Billings, someone better than Walker at DE, and maybe a linebacker. Outside of the obvious need at QB, those are really the most glaring.

3rd TE, Billings backup, and the 5th LB can be found after the draft.

[Bearfacts]

Where Poles took certain players makes little difference if they're now on the roster and contributing in some what even if they're back end of the roster players who are core ST guys. Actually both Pace and Poles have had success with Day Three picks like; Herbert, Jones, Borom, Carter, Hicks, Johnson, Robinson, Scott, Mooney, Sewell, Smith and others who were UDFA. They're guys who've made the 53 man roster at least once. What Poles should be doing is upgrading a few of them which he may have done in FA.

For me players taken in Round One and Two should be seen as capable of starting and/or contributing in their first year. We lack a 2nd round pick but if we sub Sweat for whatever DE we may have taken at pick #36 we've likely come out far ahead so far. We have two 1st round picks in the top ten. Those players should have the talent to be Day One starters and fill positions of immediate need. We can do that with CW and another top tier pick at #9. My guess is it will either be a WR or a DE.

Trading down into the second tier of 1st round picks gives less assurance of getting a Day One starter and the Day Three pick we get won't start either and may not even make the 53 man roster. We already have a late Day Two pick and a Day Three pick now who at best will be backups if they can beat someone else out of their spot most likely also a backup. I'm on the side of not losing out on a blue chip WR or DE just to get one more Day Three pick we don't honestly need this year.

[Heinz D.]

For me players taken in Round One and Two should be seen as capable of starting and/or contributing in their first year. We lack a 2nd round pick but if we sub Sweat for whatever DE we may have taken at pick #36 we've likely come out far ahead so far. We have two 1st round picks in the top ten. Those players should have the talent to be Day One starters and fill positions of immediate need. We can do that with CW and another top tier pick at #9. My guess is it will either be a WR or a DE.

Trading down into the second tier of 1st round picks gives less assurance of getting a Day One starter and the Day Three pick we get won't start either and may not even make the 53 man roster. We already have a late Day Two pick and a Day Three pick now who at best will be backups if they can beat someone else out of their spot most likely also a backup. I'm on the side of not losing out on a blue chip WR or DE just to get one more Day Three pick we don't honestly need this year.

[Arkansasbear]

A week ago I was convinced that Poles would trade down from 9. Now I'm pretty sure he's going to keep the pick.

I think there are a few guys he won't pass on - Turner the 3 WRs and maybe Alt. If they are all gone, I'm saying it's 50/50 right now, I think there is a good chance he looks to move down to pre-teens/early teens.

[G08]

Where Poles took certain players makes little difference if they're now on the roster and contributing in some what even if they're back end of the roster players who are core ST guys. Actually both Pace and Poles have had success with Day Three picks like; Herbert, Jones, Borom, Carter, Hicks, Johnson, Robinson, Scott, Mooney, Sewell, Smith and others who were UDFA. They're guys who've made the 53 man roster at least once. What Poles should be doing is upgrading a few of them which he may have done in FA.

For me players taken in Round One and Two should be seen as capable of starting and/or contributing in their first year. We lack a 2nd round pick but if we sub Sweat for whatever DE we may have taken at pick #36 we've likely come out far ahead so far. We have two 1st round picks in the top ten. Those players should have the talent to be Day One starters and fill positions of immediate need. We can do that with CW and another top tier pick at #9. My guess is it will either be a WR or a DE.

Trading down into the second tier of 1st round picks gives less assurance of getting a Day One starter and the Day Three pick we get won't start either and may not even make the 53 man roster. We already have a late Day Two pick and a Day Three pick now who at best will be backups if they can beat someone else out of their spot most likely also a backup. I'm on the side of not losing out on a blue chip WR or DE just to get one more Day Three pick we don't honestly need this year.

Rome Odunze or Dallas Turner/Jared Verse, unless Flus falls in love with one of the 3Ts (I can't imagine they'd give up on Dexter this early, though).

[dplank]

I don’t scout but Verse age worries me. Not because of career longevity, it’s stupid IMO to think much past the rookie contract window on these guys anyways. I’m worried that he was playing against guys he’s a couple years older than, and how that gives him a big advantage that he won’t have at the next level - so I would be questioning hard if that tape would translate much like a D2 guys tape. A couple years older when your that age is a big advantage.

[Bearfacts]

Where Poles took certain players makes little difference if they're now on the roster and contributing in some what even if they're back end of the roster players who are core ST guys. Actually both Pace and Poles have had success with Day Three picks like; Herbert, Jones, Borom, Carter, Hicks, Johnson, Robinson, Scott, Mooney, Sewell, Smith and others who were UDFA. They're guys who've made the 53 man roster at least once. What Poles should be doing is upgrading a few of them which he may have done in FA.

For me players taken in Round One and Two should be seen as capable of starting and/or contributing in their first year. We lack a 2nd round pick but if we sub Sweat for whatever DE we may have taken at pick #36 we've likely come out far ahead so far. We have two 1st round picks in the top ten. Those players should have the talent to be Day One starters and fill positions of immediate need. We can do that with CW and another top tier pick at #9. My guess is it will either be a WR or a DE.

Trading down into the second tier of 1st round picks gives less assurance of getting a Day One starter and the Day Three pick we get won't start either and may not even make the 53 man roster. We already have a late Day Two pick and a Day Three pick now who at best will be backups if they can beat someone else out of their spot most likely also a backup. I'm on the side of not losing out on a blue chip WR or DE just to get one more Day Three pick we don't honestly need this year.

Rome Odunze or Dallas Turner/Jared Verse, unless Flus falls in love with one of the 3Ts (I can't imagine they'd give up on Dexter this early, though).

Nor can I plus Pickens is far more a 3 tech type then a NT and Flus can also move Walker inside where he more effective rushing than he seems to be at DE. I think they can afford to wait out another year of Dexter's and Pickens' development before deciding how badly they need a different 3 tech. Unless a guy has played it in college which few have it takes a while to master it in the NFL.

The tougher choice may come if one of the top WR is still on the board as they tend to be ranked a bit higher overall. Poles might be able to find an effective pass rush specialist in rounds three or four but not a 3 down DE or a dominant WR like the top three. It may be a tough decision which explains why he's having his scouting/personnel groups research and present on both and on OL.

[Bearfacts]

For me players taken in Round One and Two should be seen as capable of starting and/or contributing in their first year. We lack a 2nd round pick but if we sub Sweat for whatever DE we may have taken at pick #36 we've likely come out far ahead so far. We have two 1st round picks in the top ten. Those players should have the talent to be Day One starters and fill positions of immediate need. We can do that with CW and another top tier pick at #9. My guess is it will either be a WR or a DE.

Trading down into the second tier of 1st round picks gives less assurance of getting a Day One starter and the Day Three pick we get won't start either and may not even make the 53 man roster. We already have a late Day Two pick and a Day Three pick now who at best will be backups if they can beat someone else out of their spot most likely also a backup. I'm on the side of not losing out on a blue chip WR or DE just to get one more Day Three pick we don't honestly need this year.

[crueltyabc]

I don’t really think Dallas Turner or Jared Verse are exciting “top 10” pick types. Most years I think they’d be third and fourth best and thus probably available later in the first. If the WRs don’t fall I think the Bears are safe trading back to get another top 100 pick. They can get dline #4 with that first and still add a WR later. The other dline spot can be some old 1-year guy who I bet will be better than the WR options available

[Bearfacts]

I don’t really think Dallas Turner or Jared Verse are exciting “top 10” pick types. Most years I think they’d be third and fourth best and thus probably available later in the first. If the WRs don’t fall I think the Bears are safe trading back to get another top 100 pick. They can get dline #4 with that first and still add a WR later. The other dline spot can be some old 1-year guy who I bet will be better than the WR options available

Interesting......I tend to agree the DE crop overall is not quite as top heavy as it has been in other years. I suppose this depends on how Poles and his college scouts/personnel guys see the 2025 crop and Turner vs Verse but it makes me wonder how they see the OL players vs DE and whether they might actually take on OL in round one and take a DE in round three or if Odunze is still on the board and he's the BPA at that point do they take him? Poles is always harder to predict than Pace was.

[Grizzled]

Where Poles took certain players makes little difference if they're now on the roster and contributing in some what even if they're back end of the roster players who are core ST guys. Actually both Pace and Poles have had success with Day Three picks like; Herbert, Jones, Borom, Carter, Hicks, Johnson, Robinson, Scott, Mooney, Sewell, Smith and others who were UDFA. They're guys who've made the 53 man roster at least once. What Poles should be doing is upgrading a few of them which he may have done in FA.

For me players taken in Round One and Two should be seen as capable of starting and/or contributing in their first year. We lack a 2nd round pick but if we sub Sweat for whatever DE we may have taken at pick #36 we've likely come out far ahead so far. We have two 1st round picks in the top ten. Those players should have the talent to be Day One starters and fill positions of immediate need. We can do that with CW and another top tier pick at #9. My guess is it will either be a WR or a DE.

Trading down into the second tier of 1st round picks gives less assurance of getting a Day One starter and the Day Three pick we get won't start either and may not even make the 53 man roster. We already have a late Day Two pick and a Day Three pick now who at best will be backups if they can beat someone else out of their spot most likely also a backup. I'm on the side of not losing out on a blue chip WR or DE just to get one more Day Three pick we don't honestly need this year.

You bring up a point I hadn't really thought of yet (which is weird, as much as I'm thinking of the draft). A WR at #9 would be another weapon for Williams but would the guy be a starter or a piece Waldron uses only in certain sets? How many 3 receiver sets did he use in Seattle? He had Lockett, Metcalf, and Smith-Njigba as his primary receivers, and S-N has mightily complained after the season about his lack of use. So would it make more sense to take a DE, a DT, or an OT who would be immediate starters?

[Heinz D.]

You bring up a point I hadn't really thought of yet (which is weird, as much as I'm thinking of the draft). A WR at #9 would be another weapon for Williams but would the guy be a starter or a piece Waldron uses only in certain sets? How many 3 receiver sets did he use in Seattle? He had Lockett, Metcalf, and Smith-Njigba as his primary receivers, and S-N has mightily complained after the season about his lack of use. So would it make more sense to take a DE, a DT, or an OT who would be immediate starters?

Yes. Yes, it would...

[dplank]

Gotta think ahead here also, Allen is a FA next year and Moore the year after. If one of those big 3 WRs falls, that’s the pick IMO. If not then I’d go best DE on Poles board.

[Bearfacts]

Where Poles took certain players makes little difference if they're now on the roster and contributing in some what even if they're back end of the roster players who are core ST guys. Actually both Pace and Poles have had success with Day Three picks like; Herbert, Jones, Borom, Carter, Hicks, Johnson, Robinson, Scott, Mooney, Sewell, Smith and others who were UDFA. They're guys who've made the 53 man roster at least once. What Poles should be doing is upgrading a few of them which he may have done in FA.

For me players taken in Round One and Two should be seen as capable of starting and/or contributing in their first year. We lack a 2nd round pick but if we sub Sweat for whatever DE we may have taken at pick #36 we've likely come out far ahead so far. We have two 1st round picks in the top ten. Those players should have the talent to be Day One starters and fill positions of immediate need. We can do that with CW and another top tier pick at #9. My guess is it will either be a WR or a DE.

Trading down into the second tier of 1st round picks gives less assurance of getting a Day One starter and the Day Three pick we get won't start either and may not even make the 53 man roster. We already have a late Day Two pick and a Day Three pick now who at best will be backups if they can beat someone else out of their spot most likely also a backup. I'm on the side of not losing out on a blue chip WR or DE just to get one more Day Three pick we don't honestly need this year.

You bring up a point I hadn't really thought of yet (which is weird, as much as I'm thinking of the draft). A WR at #9 would be another weapon for Williams but would the guy be a starter or a piece Waldron uses only in certain sets? How many 3 receiver sets did he use in Seattle? He had Lockett, Metcalf, and Smith-Njigba as his primary receivers, and S-N has mightily complained after the season about his lack of use. So would it make more sense to take a DE, a DT, or an OT who would be immediate starters?

To me the only valid rationale for drafting a WR would be based that player being far and away the BPA on the board and any other potential prospect on Poles board does not rank that high and doesn't rate a #9 pick so he will take his chances and trade down.

But there's also a secondary reason I posted on in the Keenan Allen thread. It's my belief that Poles does not plan for Allen to be a one year rental and that he would prefer to extend him at least through 2025. Not coincidentally D J Moore's current deal ends after the 2025 season when he will be 29 years old. He will be due an extension sometime during the 2025 season or soon thereafter. If both Allen and Moore will be out of contract at the end of 2025 drafting a WR now to replace Allen does make pretty good sense.

Rookie WR normally take a year or so to mature learning the NFL route tree, their role in the offense, while also developing a solid rapport with their QB. If we draft say Odunze then 2024 his pretty much a ramp up year where he plays the role of a #3 becoming ready to do more in 2025 or possibly in 2024 if an injury causes Moore or Allen to miss significant amounts of time. So there will be a need as soon as 2025 because I doubt Poles will pay two #1 WR top dollar in 2026 and in all likelihood Allen will be gone.

JMHO

[Grizzled]

Good posts by Plank and Bearfacts about both main Bears WRs being older and that WRs typically take at least a year to really catch onto the pro game. Poles is really going to earn his salary this draft and offseason. Just don't take a CBin the 1st round ....

[Heinz D.]

Not coincidentally D J Moore's current deal ends after the 2025 season when he will be 29 years old.

Huh? He was born in '97?

IMHO, Moore is going to be a Bear, and playing at a high level, for quite a few years...

[dplank]

Not coincidentally D J Moore's current deal ends after the 2025 season when he will be 29 years old.

Huh? He was born in '97?

IMHO, Moore is going to be a Bear, and playing at a high level, for quite a few years...

The 2025 season will end in 2026. He will turn 29 early in that offseason, before the draft. He should have more good years in him, but it's hard to predict when that cliff comes for these guys. A 2-3 year extension would be ideal IMO.

[Bearfacts]

Not coincidentally D J Moore's current deal ends after the 2025 season when he will be 29 years old.

Huh? He was born in '97?

IMHO, Moore is going to be a Bear, and playing at a high level, for quite a few years...

April 14, 1997......Yes. He'll be 27 this year.

[Bearfacts]

Huh? He was born in '97?

IMHO, Moore is going to be a Bear, and playing at a high level, for quite a few years...

The 2025 season will end in 2026. He will turn 29 early in that offseason, before the draft. He should have more good years in him, but it's hard to predict when that cliff comes for these guys. A 2-3 year extension would be ideal IMO.

If he's still deserving of a top dollar deal it's more likely it will be a four year deal so his signing bonus can be stretched out but all of his guaranteed money will end in this third season at age 31. His fourth season at age 32 then becomes a Bears option as to whether or not to keep him or release him to FA. To be honest I don't think he'll get any less than a top ten offer in 2025 for an extension.

[Heinz D.]

If he's still deserving of a top dollar deal it's more likely it will be a four year deal so his signing bonus can be stretched out but all of his guaranteed money will end in this third season at age 31. His fourth season at age 32 then becomes a Bears option as to whether or not to keep him or release him to FA. To be honest I don't think he'll get any less than a top ten offer in 2025 for an extension.

You're probably right about that. And he'll probably deserve it.

[HurricaneBear]

Where Poles took certain players makes little difference if they're now on the roster and contributing in some what even if they're back end of the roster players who are core ST guys. Actually both Pace and Poles have had success with Day Three picks like; Herbert, Jones, Borom, Carter, Hicks, Johnson, Robinson, Scott, Mooney, Sewell, Smith and others who were UDFA. They're guys who've made the 53 man roster at least once. What Poles should be doing is upgrading a few of them which he may have done in FA.

For me players taken in Round One and Two should be seen as capable of starting and/or contributing in their first year. We lack a 2nd round pick but if we sub Sweat for whatever DE we may have taken at pick #36 we've likely come out far ahead so far. We have two 1st round picks in the top ten. Those players should have the talent to be Day One starters and fill positions of immediate need. We can do that with CW and another top tier pick at #9. My guess is it will either be a WR or a DE.

Trading down into the second tier of 1st round picks gives less assurance of getting a Day One starter and the Day Three pick we get won't start either and may not even make the 53 man roster. We already have a late Day Two pick and a Day Three pick now who at best will be backups if they can beat someone else out of their spot most likely also a backup. I'm on the side of not losing out on a blue chip WR or DE just to get one more Day Three pick we don't honestly need this year.

You bring up a point I hadn't really thought of yet (which is weird, as much as I'm thinking of the draft). A WR at #9 would be another weapon for Williams but would the guy be a starter or a piece Waldron uses only in certain sets? How many 3 receiver sets did he use in Seattle? He had Lockett, Metcalf, and Smith-Njigba as his primary receivers, and S-N has mightily complained after the season about his lack of use. So would it make more sense to take a DE, a DT, or an OT who would be immediate starters?

Why would a DE at 9 be a starter? What's happening to Walker? He will be starting at DE even if they draft someone

[dplank]

He won’t start but he will rotate in heavily and play a “starters snap count”. On passing downs Walker can move inside, taking DT rotation snaps. If we don’t add a DE, Walker can’t move around as intended or else we have a hole at RE. It’s one of those moves that has a trickle down effect IMO.

[Heinz D.]

Why would a DE at 9 be a starter? What's happening to Walker? He will be starting at DE even if they draft someone

If they're able to draft Turner or Verse...no, Walker would most likely NOT be the starter. It's feasible the transfer might not take place until a few weeks into the season...but I'd be surprised if it actually takes that long.

[o-pus #40 in B major]

Poles has brought in three legit new targets for CW already this offseason.

He's got two elite WRs, two pass-catching TEs and two RB's with good hands.

Trade down or not, I expect the second blue chip after Caleb will be either OL or DL.

[Bearfacts]

You bring up a point I hadn't really thought of yet (which is weird, as much as I'm thinking of the draft). A WR at #9 would be another weapon for Williams but would the guy be a starter or a piece Waldron uses only in certain sets? How many 3 receiver sets did he use in Seattle? He had Lockett, Metcalf, and Smith-Njigba as his primary receivers, and S-N has mightily complained after the season about his lack of use. So would it make more sense to take a DE, a DT, or an OT who would be immediate starters?

Why would a DE at 9 be a starter? What's happening to Walker? He will be starting at DE even if they draft someone

On the DL virtually ever guy on the roster is part of Flus rotation so IMHO how many snaps a rookie gets vs how many Walker gets and that may depend upon who we'd draft there. But I believe anyone taken that high should be seriously in the mix more so than Dexter and Pickens were last year.

[wab]

Where Poles took certain players makes little difference if they're now on the roster and contributing in some what even if they're back end of the roster players who are core ST guys. Actually both Pace and Poles have had success with Day Three picks like; Herbert, Jones, Borom, Carter, Hicks, Johnson, Robinson, Scott, Mooney, Sewell, Smith and others who were UDFA. They're guys who've made the 53 man roster at least once. What Poles should be doing is upgrading a few of them which he may have done in FA.

For me players taken in Round One and Two should be seen as capable of starting and/or contributing in their first year. We lack a 2nd round pick but if we sub Sweat for whatever DE we may have taken at pick #36 we've likely come out far ahead so far. We have two 1st round picks in the top ten. Those players should have the talent to be Day One starters and fill positions of immediate need. We can do that with CW and another top tier pick at #9. My guess is it will either be a WR or a DE.

Trading down into the second tier of 1st round picks gives less assurance of getting a Day One starter and the Day Three pick we get won't start either and may not even make the 53 man roster. We already have a late Day Two pick and a Day Three pick now who at best will be backups if they can beat someone else out of their spot most likely also a backup. I'm on the side of not losing out on a blue chip WR or DE just to get one more Day Three pick we don't honestly need this year.

Rome Odunze or Dallas Turner/Jared Verse, unless Flus falls in love with one of the 3Ts (I can't imagine they'd give up on Dexter this early, though).

Don't sleep on Fuaga man... seems like a prototype Poles pick.

[Arkansasbear]

Rome Odunze or Dallas Turner/Jared Verse, unless Flus falls in love with one of the 3Ts (I can't imagine they'd give up on Dexter this early, though).

Don't sleep on Fuaga man... seems like a prototype Poles pick.

I like him, but don't know how much he helps us this year. I think he is a RT/OG type. I don't see him or Wright playing LT and I like Wright as a RT more than I like Jones as a LT, so if I was going to attempt to upgrade the OL, I think a LT is a better move.

If we move him to OG, maybe he's an improvement over Davis, but I'd rather give Davis a shot to improve before spending a 1st round pick on him this year. Also, I think if that was the plan, I might like Barton from Duke more simply because he has played OG. I always worry when we try to plug and play a guy in a new spot.

Finally, I think he would only be in play in a trade down to the late teens. If we are there, I think it's hard to pass on Powers-Johnson. I think he give us a shot at a VERY GOOD OL (assuming Davis bounces back).

[crueltyabc]

I see Troy Fautanu as a Poles guy. Sweet guy that goes aggro on the field. Versatility to backup oft-injured Tev if he can't beat Braxton to start.

The fact that we each have guys that are "poles guys" speaks to the opportunity for poles to get red guys who are good fits in the teens if the blue-chippers are gone by 9

[Arkansasbear]

I see Troy Fautanu as a Poles guy. Sweet guy that goes aggro on the field. Versatility to backup oft-injured Tev if he can't beat Braxton to start.

The fact that we each have guys that are "poles guys" speaks to the opportunity for poles to get red guys who are good fits in the teens if the blue-chippers are gone by 9

I just don't see him even battling Jones. He's been a RT his whole career and is projected to stay there or slide inside. If Wright wasn't on the roster, I think he might be in play.

[crueltyabc]

I see Troy Fautanu as a Poles guy. Sweet guy that goes aggro on the field. Versatility to backup oft-injured Tev if he can't beat Braxton to start.

The fact that we each have guys that are "poles guys" speaks to the opportunity for poles to get red guys who are good fits in the teens if the blue-chippers are gone by 9

I just don't see him even battling Jones. He's been a RT his whole career and is projected to stay there or slide inside. If Wright wasn't on the roster, I think he might be in play.

I think you're confused because his QB Penix is lefthanded so he was not the blind side but he played LT and LG in college bro