I think we Bears fans are traumatized

[Bearfacts]

According to Brad Biggs Ryan Poles has already offered an extension to Keenan Allen which he declined so far preferring to test FA next spring. So there's a very good chance he may be one and done in Chicago. If that's the case we'll need to replace him as early as 2025 and we have that opportunity in this draft.

Got a link to this?

Like I posted to Heinz it was in something Biggs wrote. Check out his columns in the Trib. I don't have a subscription right now.

Let's look at it from a common sense point of view. Allen refused to take a pay cut in SD. Allen gets traded. We have him for one year at $23 mil but given his age is that the kind of money Poles will want to offer him on an extension? My guess would be that an extension has been brought up but not specific dollar amounts. If both sides are trying to determine a fair number FA is one way of doing it. Whether or not Poles would tag him is yet to be seen. Let's see how well he produces this year.

We all know how a columnist describes something and what the actual facts are can often be two different things entirely.

[Rusty Trombagent]

Got a link to this?

Like I posted to Heinz it was in something Biggs wrote. Check out his columns in the Trib. I don't have a subscription right now.

Let's look at it from a common sense point of view. Allen refused to take a pay cut in SD. Allen gets traded. We have him for one year at $23 mil but given his age is that the kind of money Poles will want to offer him on an extension? My guess would be that an extension has been brought up but not specific dollar amounts. If both sides are trying to determine a fair number FA is one way of doing it. Whether or not Poles would tag him is yet to be seen. Let's see how well he produces this year.

We all know how a columnist describes something and what the actual facts are can often be two different things entirely.

I searched for awhile this morning and couldnt find anything saying this. I'd think it'd be a big deal if this was actually out there, because some people would be trying to drag Poles for trading for a player without handshake agreeing on an extension first.

Regardless, it certainly doesnt make sense for either side to do a deal until atleast seeing how the draft shakes out. We take a WR with our #9 pick, it prob does not make any sense to give him a long term contract.

[LacertineForest]

Like I posted to Heinz it was in something Biggs wrote. Check out his columns in the Trib. I don't have a subscription right now.

Let's look at it from a common sense point of view. Allen refused to take a pay cut in SD. Allen gets traded. We have him for one year at $23 mil but given his age is that the kind of money Poles will want to offer him on an extension? My guess would be that an extension has been brought up but not specific dollar amounts. If both sides are trying to determine a fair number FA is one way of doing it. Whether or not Poles would tag him is yet to be seen. Let's see how well he produces this year.

We all know how a columnist describes something and what the actual facts are can often be two different things entirely.

I searched for awhile this morning and couldnt find anything saying this. I'd think it'd be a big deal if this was actually out there, because some people would be trying to drag Poles for trading for a player without handshake agreeing on an extension first.

Regardless, it certainly doesnt make sense for either side to do a deal until atleast seeing how the draft shakes out. We take a WR with our #9 pick, it prob does not make any sense to give him a long term contract.

Yeah, I also searched for this on the Trib website, searched Biggs' twitter, and I couldn't find anything. If he's reported that, he's not making it very public. I also think someone else would have picked up on it (especially given how thirsty everyone is for news right now). That said, it wouldn't shock me if that was the case, and I also agree that I don't know if the Bears would use the tag on him (could be a way to get a comp pick that was higher than the pick they gave up, depending on how FA shakes out next year).

[G08]

Like I posted to Heinz it was in something Biggs wrote. Check out his columns in the Trib. I don't have a subscription right now.

Let's look at it from a common sense point of view. Allen refused to take a pay cut in SD. Allen gets traded. We have him for one year at $23 mil but given his age is that the kind of money Poles will want to offer him on an extension? My guess would be that an extension has been brought up but not specific dollar amounts. If both sides are trying to determine a fair number FA is one way of doing it. Whether or not Poles would tag him is yet to be seen. Let's see how well he produces this year.

We all know how a columnist describes something and what the actual facts are can often be two different things entirely.

I searched for awhile this morning and couldnt find anything saying this. I'd think it'd be a big deal if this was actually out there, because some people would be trying to drag Poles for trading for a player without handshake agreeing on an extension first.

Regardless, it certainly doesnt make sense for either side to do a deal until atleast seeing how the draft shakes out. We take a WR with our #9 pick, it prob does not make any sense to give him a long term contract.

Same here, and I was surprised because usually anything Biggs creates (article, radio appearance, etc) I consume immediately.

I do recall that Poles was asked about an extension and he replied that he is intentional about the order in which he offers extensions, makes me think Allen isn't at the top of the list right now (understandably so I suppose).

[wab]

One of Odunze or Turner will be there at 9. Take whichever is there and it’s a win.

Barring a team hopping up to 7, I think that's probably the case.

The biggest difference in the 3rd WR vs the 3rd DE is that the 3rd DE is going to see more opportunities than the 3rd WR. If you have them graded equally then that's definitely something that will (should) come into play.

[grendel2000]

One of Odunze or Turner will be there at 9. Take whichever is there and it’s a win.

Barring a team hopping up to 7, I think that's probably the case.

The biggest difference in the 3rd WR vs the 3rd DE is that the 3rd DE is going to see more opportunities than the 3rd WR. If you have them graded equally then that's definitely something that will (should) come into play.

Respectfully, I disagree that the WR and DE positions are basically of the same import. The issue isn't as simple as "both positions could have an injury, so hedging your bet with an extra player at that position is the same for both". It's not that simple: if we draft a DE and he or Sweat get hurt, we have a worse defense, but no players on D will suffer in their learning curve because of the injury. If we draft a WR and someone goes down (rookie WR, Allen, or Moore) we still have credible WR to put on the field to support Williams' growth.

Said differently, the #1 priority over the next two years MUST be supporting Williams, to maximize his improvement and to ensure that we know if he's "the one". We CANNOT do with him what we did with Fields, where it's three years in and we still aren't sure what we have. We need to KNOW if he's the real deal, and that will be hard to do if we're in yet another situations wondering if he sucks, or if it's the crappy WR corps (or coaches, etc.)...

So I don't think the fact that a DE may get more touches this year than a 1st round WR is a valid reason to prioritize DE (assuming graded equally, as you stated). The WR is still significantly more important IMHO, because he will have a direct impact on bringing Williams along...

[HurricaneBear]

One of Odunze or Turner will be there at 9. Take whichever is there and it’s a win.

Barring a team hopping up to 7, I think that's probably the case.

The biggest difference in the 3rd WR vs the 3rd DE is that the 3rd DE is going to see more opportunities than the 3rd WR. If you have them graded equally then that's definitely something that will (should) come into play.

We need to look past 1 season. The WR could be a starter as soon as next year. To be fair the DE could be as well, but I believe DE2 will see less snaps then WR2 if we go down that avenue.

Select the best player at 9, regardless of position. That's what I want Poles to do.

With that said, WR3 all the way baby!

[Yogi da Bear]

I searched for awhile this morning and couldnt find anything saying this. I'd think it'd be a big deal if this was actually out there, because some people would be trying to drag Poles for trading for a player without handshake agreeing on an extension first.

Regardless, it certainly doesnt make sense for either side to do a deal until atleast seeing how the draft shakes out. We take a WR with our #9 pick, it prob does not make any sense to give him a long term contract.

Same here, and I was surprised because usually anything Biggs creates (article, radio appearance, etc) I consume immediately.

I do recall that Poles was asked about an extension and he replied that he is intentional about the order in which he offers extensions, makes me think Allen isn't at the top of the list right now (understandably so I suppose).

I saw this on X. Somebody was quoting Biggs as having said it, but I can't remember who it was right now.

[dplank]

Barring a team hopping up to 7, I think that's probably the case.

The biggest difference in the 3rd WR vs the 3rd DE is that the 3rd DE is going to see more opportunities than the 3rd WR. If you have them graded equally then that's definitely something that will (should) come into play.

Respectfully, I disagree that the WR and DE positions are basically of the same import. The issue isn't as simple as "both positions could have an injury, so hedging your bet with an extra player at that position is the same for both". It's not that simple: if we draft a DE and he or Sweat get hurt, we have a worse defense, but no players on D will suffer in their learning curve because of the injury. If we draft a WR and someone goes down (rookie WR, Allen, or Moore) we still have credible WR to put on the field to support Williams' growth.

Said differently, the #1 priority over the next two years MUST be supporting Williams, to maximize his improvement and to ensure that we know if he's "the one". We CANNOT do with him what we did with Fields, where it's three years in and we still aren't sure what we have. We need to KNOW if he's the real deal, and that will be hard to do if we're in yet another situations wondering if he sucks, or if it's the crappy WR corps (or coaches, etc.)...

So I don't think the fact that a DE may get more touches this year than a 1st round WR is a valid reason to prioritize DE (assuming graded equally, as you stated). The WR is still significantly more important IMHO, because he will have a direct impact on bringing Williams along...

If a WR goes down, we still have a viable #1 WR on the team, along with Kmet, Everett and Swift. In no way is that not acceptable support for CW, that's still plenty. Even with losing our WR1 it's a better unit than Fields EVER had. However, if a Sweat goes down, our defense plummets to a bottom 10 unit like it was before we acquired him. We are staring down the barrel of DomRob as our starting DE.

So far this offseason, we have upgraded WR, TE, RB along with drafting a new QB at #1 overall. On defense, we've actually gone backwards. We've lost 3 DL, including 2 starters and haven't replaced them with anything other than scrub level players.

Supporting your QB includes having a good defense.

[Heinz D.]

Check the Trib Heinz. It was in something Biggs wrote. I don't have a subscription right now and won't until camp begins.

And I wouldn't be all that positive they tag him either.

Oh, I totally believe you...I just don't think Biggs knows what he's talking about.

And, why don't you think they'd tag him?

[Bearfacts]

Like I posted to Heinz it was in something Biggs wrote. Check out his columns in the Trib. I don't have a subscription right now.

Let's look at it from a common sense point of view. Allen refused to take a pay cut in SD. Allen gets traded. We have him for one year at $23 mil but given his age is that the kind of money Poles will want to offer him on an extension? My guess would be that an extension has been brought up but not specific dollar amounts. If both sides are trying to determine a fair number FA is one way of doing it. Whether or not Poles would tag him is yet to be seen. Let's see how well he produces this year.

We all know how a columnist describes something and what the actual facts are can often be two different things entirely.

I searched for awhile this morning and couldnt find anything saying this. I'd think it'd be a big deal if this was actually out there, because some people would be trying to drag Poles for trading for a player without handshake agreeing on an extension first.

Regardless, it certainly doesnt make sense for either side to do a deal until atleast seeing how the draft shakes out. We take a WR with our #9 pick, it prob does not make any sense to give him a long term contract.

It was mentioned in a piece about another topic entirely and might have been part of a mail bag response. I can't recall. But it was not a stand alone piece about that and that alone. More something that was mentioned in passing which is why I'm skeptical about what the true facts are vs the way Biggs interprets them. That's the best I've got for you.

As for the rest, giving up a 4th round pick for an All Pro WR to help your rookie QB is a smart move regardless of whether he can be extended or not. Both Allen and Poles have said an extension has been mentioned we just don't know to what degree and whether or not any specifics have been discussed. And I agree that waiting until after the draft makes the most sense.

Based on what's on the books now we could probably swing with Allen for two years; 2024 and 2025, because Moore's deal has a $16 mil cap both years. After that, and assuming we extend him Moore will be the highest paid WR on the team with an AAV of $25 mil or more. It's tough to see Poles paying out $20 mil plus deal to two WR especially one who'll be 34 years old in 2026.

Poles could spend his #9 pick on a WR thereby having a top prospect on the roster ready to take over as #2 WR as early as next year and allow Allen to leave as a FA possibly getting back a compensatory pick in doing so. Or he can try to keep Allen with an offer that keeps him through 2025 with an ability to get out of it in 2026 with Moore and whoever we draft now as WR #1 and #2.

What I admire most about Poles is his 3D thinking. He's building a team for sustained success not just a one shot deal so he's projecting his needs out over several years and always allowing himself some flexibility when it comes to the draft. To me that's a big part of why he's unpredictable. He provides himself with options so he can take a BPA guy over a positional need if he wants.

[grendel2000]

Respectfully, I disagree that the WR and DE positions are basically of the same import. The issue isn't as simple as "both positions could have an injury, so hedging your bet with an extra player at that position is the same for both". It's not that simple: if we draft a DE and he or Sweat get hurt, we have a worse defense, but no players on D will suffer in their learning curve because of the injury. If we draft a WR and someone goes down (rookie WR, Allen, or Moore) we still have credible WR to put on the field to support Williams' growth.

Said differently, the #1 priority over the next two years MUST be supporting Williams, to maximize his improvement and to ensure that we know if he's "the one". We CANNOT do with him what we did with Fields, where it's three years in and we still aren't sure what we have. We need to KNOW if he's the real deal, and that will be hard to do if we're in yet another situations wondering if he sucks, or if it's the crappy WR corps (or coaches, etc.)...

So I don't think the fact that a DE may get more touches this year than a 1st round WR is a valid reason to prioritize DE (assuming graded equally, as you stated). The WR is still significantly more important IMHO, because he will have a direct impact on bringing Williams along...

If a WR goes down, we still have a viable #1 WR on the team, along with Kmet, Everett and Swift. In no way is that not acceptable support for CW, that's still plenty. Even with losing our WR1 it's a better unit than Fields EVER had. However, if a Sweat goes down, our defense plummets to a bottom 10 unit like it was before we acquired him. We are staring down the barrel of DomRob as our starting DE.

So far this offseason, we have upgraded WR, TE, RB along with drafting a new QB at #1 overall. On defense, we've actually gone backwards. We've lost 3 DL, including 2 starters and haven't replaced them with anything other than scrub level players.

Supporting your QB includes having a good defense.

Good defense doesn't not help CW learn to play the pro game. It just doesn't.

You mAY be right - having one of the "#1" WR (Allen or Moore) MAY be good enough along with Kmet, Swift, etc. Or it MAY not. I (and others) are advocating to hedge that bet. I want to be POSITIVE that CW has EVERY ADVANTAGE to help him maximize his potential over his first few years. If that means the D might be a mediocre unit I'm happy to live with that. We can fix / polish the D once we know we have a functional QB and Offense. Until then, buy nice things to help CW!

[Bearfacts]

I searched for awhile this morning and couldnt find anything saying this. I'd think it'd be a big deal if this was actually out there, because some people would be trying to drag Poles for trading for a player without handshake agreeing on an extension first.

Regardless, it certainly doesnt make sense for either side to do a deal until atleast seeing how the draft shakes out. We take a WR with our #9 pick, it prob does not make any sense to give him a long term contract.

Yeah, I also searched for this on the Trib website, searched Biggs' twitter, and I couldn't find anything. If he's reported that, he's not making it very public. I also think someone else would have picked up on it (especially given how thirsty everyone is for news right now). That said, it wouldn't shock me if that was the case, and I also agree that I don't know if the Bears would use the tag on him (could be a way to get a comp pick that was higher than the pick they gave up, depending on how FA shakes out next year).

And again, it was part of a response to something else or a question about pick #9 which is why I believe it may have been part of a response to a question is his mail bag piece. It wasn't a stand alone article or comment. I think they key take away is that Poles has provided himself with options some of which may depend on how he drafts this year.

That seemed to be the gist of what I understood from what I read. Right now there's no surety that Allen will end up being more than a one year rental. But there's also no indication that's all he will be and both parties when asked about an extension seemed to feel that there was plenty of time to discuss it later on. But the fact is Allen' current deal ends this year.

That's all we really know at this point in time.

[Bearfacts]

Same here, and I was surprised because usually anything Biggs creates (article, radio appearance, etc) I consume immediately.

I do recall that Poles was asked about an extension and he replied that he is intentional about the order in which he offers extensions, makes me think Allen isn't at the top of the list right now (understandably so I suppose).

I saw this on X. Somebody was quoting Biggs as having said it, but I can't remember who it was right now.

Like I posted it was part of a response to another question that I believe was in his mail bag. It was offhand enough and obscure enough to be taken that way yet it may have some substance to it. In either case neither Allen or Poles believe it's something that must be addressed now.

[Bearfacts]

Check the Trib Heinz. It was in something Biggs wrote. I don't have a subscription right now and won't until camp begins.

And I wouldn't be all that positive they tag him either.

Oh, I totally believe you...I just don't think Biggs knows what he's talking about.

And, why don't you think they'd tag him?

Biggs isn't always clear about what constitutes his personal opinion and what constitutes fact or rumor but because he's been on the Bears Beat for so long people may put more credence in what he says or writes than others. There are times I do and times I don't but we have to admit that he was spot on about the Bears having decided to draft CW long before it became a sure thing.

Poles could tag Allen but I think that may not make sense. No one is gonna give up two 1st round picks to sign Keenan Allen so how would that impact any offers Allen might get as a non-exclusive rights FA? I can't see how it actually helps as opposed to just allowing him to become a UFA. That may help establish is market value.

From past observations I think it's probably more accurate to depend upon Poles having decided what he's willing to offer Allen in the way of an extension prior to FA. If Allen declines he allows him to become a FA and takes a path of maybe adding that to any potential compensatory pick if Allen signs elsewhere. A lot may also depend upon how Poles drafts at #9.

[dplank]

If a WR goes down, we still have a viable #1 WR on the team, along with Kmet, Everett and Swift. In no way is that not acceptable support for CW, that's still plenty. Even with losing our WR1 it's a better unit than Fields EVER had. However, if a Sweat goes down, our defense plummets to a bottom 10 unit like it was before we acquired him. We are staring down the barrel of DomRob as our starting DE.

So far this offseason, we have upgraded WR, TE, RB along with drafting a new QB at #1 overall. On defense, we've actually gone backwards. We've lost 3 DL, including 2 starters and haven't replaced them with anything other than scrub level players.

Supporting your QB includes having a good defense.

Good defense doesn't not help CW learn to play the pro game. It just doesn't.

You mAY be right - having one of the "#1" WR (Allen or Moore) MAY be good enough along with Kmet, Swift, etc. Or it MAY not. I (and others) are advocating to hedge that bet. I want to be POSITIVE that CW has EVERY ADVANTAGE to help him maximize his potential over his first few years. If that means the D might be a mediocre unit I'm happy to live with that. We can fix / polish the D once we know we have a functional QB and Offense. Until then, buy nice things to help CW!

I left out C - two of them no less. And OC. Poles has gone nuts on improving the offense. CW, right now with no other moves, is by far the best setup rookie ever here in Chicago and has an elite setup regardless of franchise. So we’ve already bought him nice things, spoiled him really.

D absolutely helps QBs IMO. If they don’t have to press they will make less mistakes.

[Heinz D.]

D absolutely helps QBs IMO. If they don’t have to press they will make less mistakes.

And, as I always like to point out, it gives them shorter fields.

[grendel2000]

D absolutely helps QBs IMO. If they don’t have to press they will make less mistakes.

And, as I always like to point out, it gives them shorter fields.

Having a shorter field may help them WIN games, but it won't help them learn to adapt to the pro game's differences.

[LacertineForest]

D absolutely helps QBs IMO. If they don’t have to press they will make less mistakes.

And, as I always like to point out, it gives them shorter fields.

It also keeps the QB from having to throw so much, and, by extension, being in position to get hit. If the defense gives up a lot of points, the offensive gameplan eventually has to abandon the run due to time constraints, so you end up putting your rookie QB in a situation where the defense can pin their ears back and come after him. That's the kind of shit that ruins young QBs.

[Arkansasbear]

Should we draft Pennix at #9, as a backup plan?

For the sake of the children, please don’t

I dated a girl in law school for a long time. Thought I was going to marry her. Then I found out she had a backup Penix most of the time we were dating.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

I dated a girl in law school for a long time. Thought I was going to marry her. Then I found out she had a backup Penix most of the time we were dating.

Oh my, that must have come as a surprise!

[grendel2000]

For the sake of the children, please don’t

I dated a girl in law school for a long time. Thought I was going to marry her. Then I found out she had a backup Penix most of the time we were dating.

Some chicks charge dudes for that... Not that I know personally.

[Arkansasbear]

I dated a girl in law school for a long time. Thought I was going to marry her. Then I found out she had a backup Penix most of the time we were dating.

Oh my, that must have come as a surprise!

Not that type of extra Penix. She actually had several if truth be known.

[Arkansasbear]

Oh my, that must have come as a surprise!

I said she had a backup, not her own .

[HisRoyalSweetness]

I almost went with another song, but the Kinks are British and one of the greatest moments in music was seeing Ray Davies perform Lola in the grounds of Buckingham Palace at a concert celebrating Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth's Golden Jubilee!



The other song? Well it would have had to be this:

[Richie]

It's WWAAAAAAAYYYYYYY too soon to be confidently claiming something like that.

A majority of people were saying the same thing twice as far into Pace's reign.

As someone who likes Poles and the job he's doing so far, it is amazing that there's an alternate reality where this doesnt happen:



...and our outlook is 100% different right now. I hope Poles sent Davis Mills a Rolex or a Lambo or something special.

I remember that moment and the two point conversion extremely well. I turned off the Bears/Vikes at half and was squarely tuned in on this. I thought Houston had blown it. They had a big lead, at one point.

I was also watching with my buddy who was a Colts fan and was hoping they would lose for draft positioning. It was a funny, odd Game Day experience. Strange enough - it was our biggest win in YEARS. Getting that pick changed everything.

[BreadNCircuses]

The internet has broken me. I have hit the point where I avoid most fans and fan discussions, this board being the rare and occasional exception, because it's just not worth the hit to my sanity.


On the other hand, I've been enjoying getting that time back and spending it on other things, so I guess that's a net win.