R4 P122: Tory Taylor, P - Iowa

[G08]

[HisRoyalSweetness]

He pockets a nice $750k or so signing bonus and another $750k salary for 2024. That should make him happy.

Unless they try and pay him in Australian dollars!

[G08]

I am stupidly excited about this pick, I hope his game translates to the NFL and we don't try to tinker with his approach too much.

[wulfy]

He pockets a nice $750k or so signing bonus and another $750k salary for 2024. That should make him happy.

Probably makes the Sheila happy as well.

[wulfy]

Some quoted excerpts from Bob McGinn's annual anony-scout quotes.

“Like most Australians, I don’t think he hits a spiral as good as most NFL players,” said another coach. “He’s a good situational guy. He does all the Aussie (punt) stuff. He’s the guy with the most notoriety. I just don’t think he's the best NFL punter. He might have been a really good college punter for their rules and things they do.”

I’m going to show my ignorance here - how are the rules for punting different in the NFL vs college?

[dplank]

Only thing I can think of is the wide hash marks giving directional punters an advantage they won’t have in the NFL. Poles said he’s the best punter prospect he’s ever seen, that’s good enough for me.

Plus, my hatred for Gill is the stuff of legends.

[The Marshall Plan]

This pick should frustrate me because can't we just get a flunky from a soccer league?

But no, it's Poles, and after what he's done over the past 12 months, OK fine, take a punter in the 4th.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Plus, my hatred for Gill is the stuff of legends.

OK, time for a whip round. These should be on sale with a massive discount very soon:

https://store.chicagobears.com/mens-nik ... 1779609693

[Moriarty]

Plus, my hatred for Gill is the stuff of legends.

OK, time for a whip round. These should be on sale with a massive discount very soon:

https://store.chicagobears.com/mens-nik ... 1779609693

$130???

Who the hell would have paid that at ANY point in his NFL career?


Who would have paid half that at ANY point in his NFL career?

[Magilla_Gorilla]

I hadn't realised he was from Down Under.



Do you come from a land down under
Where women glow and men plunder?
Can't you hear, can't you hear the thunder?
You better run, you better take cover

Check out ProKick Australia - they're a school that teaches Aussie Rules footballers how to punt/kick for American football. They have become a factory for college kickers and punters. College coaches have started to offer scholarships sign unseen to ProKick Australia players based solely off the recommendation of the guys who run/coach at the school. They've had 8 Ray Guy Award winners since 2013.

The best part is that these guy can come from anywhere. Tory Taylor actually played Aussie Rules professionally for a few years before going to ProKick and then Iowa (he's 26 years old) - but the current Seahawks punter Michael Dickson was working construction before going to Pro Kick and then Texas.

[Bearfacts]

He pockets a nice $750k or so signing bonus and another $750k salary for 2024. That should make him happy.

Probably makes the Sheila happy as well.

She's a Chicagoan so she's probably already planning a Michigan Ave shopping trip.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

Probably makes the Sheila happy as well.

She's a Chicagoan so she's probably already planning a Michigan Ave shopping trip.

She's also from Winnetka, so she's probably marrying down in class and income.

[Rusty Trombagent]

She's a Chicagoan so she's probably already planning a Michigan Ave shopping trip.

She's also from Winnetka, so she's probably marrying down in class and income.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

She's also from Winnetka, so she's probably marrying down in class and income.

Well all Aussies except Aborigines are ex-cons and if you're marrying one of them it's hard not to be marrying down in class.

[Bearfacts]

She's a Chicagoan so she's probably already planning a Michigan Ave shopping trip.

She's also from Winnetka, so she's probably marrying down in class and income.

North Shore wealth eh?

[LacertineForest]

3/5 picks will be day 1 starters. I have no problem taking a punter in the 4th if they think he's going to be a pro bowler.

Some quoted excerpts from Bob McGinn's annual anony-scout quotes.

“He’s very mature and certainly has the size,” one coach said. “Not the most physically imposing guy. He’s not built the best. He wasn’t great on college tape. I’m not 100% sold on him. He’s not a really good athlete. He showed he can get the ball up in the air pretty well at the combine, which he did not do at Iowa.”

Examining about one-third of Taylor’s 93 attempts in 2023, one coach said his average hang time was 4.02. “That would have been dead last in the NFL,” he said. “His average hang at the combine was 5.02. Big difference.”

“Like most Australians, I don’t think he hits a spiral as good as most NFL players,” said another coach. “He’s a good situational guy. He does all the Aussie (punt) stuff. He’s the guy with the most notoriety. I just don’t think he's the best NFL punter. He might have been a really good college punter for their rules and things they do.”

Some of these comments are really fascinating to me. They seem to be at odds with pretty much everything I had heard about him throughout the year (best punter in college, great at pinning teams inside their own 20, incredibly accurate, etc.). The hang-time thing does give you a bit of pause, but it sounds like he improved that a lot for the combine.

"Not the most physically imposing guy. He's not built the best...He's not a really good athlete."

Okay? He's a punter...why does that matter? I mean, technically, he could have to tackle someone as a last line of defense, but that's not a situation you hope to see, basically, ever.

“Like most Australians, I don’t think he hits a spiral as good as most NFL players,” said another coach.

If the results are a great punt, location-wise, does that matter? Isn't a spiral easier to catch than something that's got a little wobble to it?

He might have been a really good college punter for their rules and things they do.”

I think this was already addressed by someone else earlier (the differences in rules), but it seems to me that punting would be one of those things that translates pretty well between the leagues. Obviously, hang-time is more important because of the speed of NFL players, but being able to consistently put a ball inside the opponents' 20-yard-line is something I look forward to seeing.

[Rusty Trombagent]

i found myself wondering how physically imposting trenton gill is.

[LacertineForest]

Some good analysis of punters and why drafting one makes sense (contrasted with kickers, where draft success is much more difficult): https://sumersports.com/the-zone/its-ok ... -a-punter/

The differences are significant between drafted and undrafted punters. What’s interesting, though, is that punters drafted in rounds 3-6 (the punts in rounds 1-2 are quick kicks from quarterbacks or kickers) have an EPA OE per punt of 0.0196, while seventh-round punters are at 0.0231, and undrafted ones are -0.0145. Thus, there does appear to be a drop off in the draft after which undrafted punters do better than drafted ones, but before that drop off there is value in taking them.

[Bearfacts]

What's done is done. They obviously weren't happy with Gill and what other player they may have drafted would they have gotten more use out of than Taylor? Poles got his OL in round three and while I felt round four would be used on a DE we ended up getting him in round five anyway so we didn't miss out on anyone by drafting Taylor. The kid has some skills other punters don't.

[Moriarty]

Some good analysis of punters and why drafting one makes sense (contrasted with kickers, where draft success is much more difficult): https://sumersports.com/the-zone/its-ok ... -a-punter/

The differences are significant between drafted and undrafted punters. What’s interesting, though, is that punters drafted in rounds 3-6 (the punts in rounds 1-2 are quick kicks from quarterbacks or kickers) have an EPA OE per punt of 0.0196, while seventh-round punters are at 0.0231, and undrafted ones are -0.0145. Thus, there does appear to be a drop off in the draft after which undrafted punters do better than drafted ones, but before that drop off there is value in taking them.

That's a briefly confusing typo they have there. R7 punters are -0.0231


Their analysis says R3-5 punters do very well (collectively, although R4 is the worst of the 3), R6 is ok. R7 is kinda bad and you're actually better off with a (high end*) Undrafted than a R7.


* Although this no doubt contains some survivor bias, in that the average and bad UD ones never kick in the NFL to get measured, only the best UD ones are counted here (whereas almost all R7 punters play at least 1-2 yrs, a la Gill, I think).

[LacertineForest]

Some good analysis of punters and why drafting one makes sense (contrasted with kickers, where draft success is much more difficult): https://sumersports.com/the-zone/its-ok ... -a-punter/

That's a briefly confusing typo they have there. R7 punters are -0.0231


Their analysis says R3-5 punters do very well (collectively, although R4 is the worst of the 3), R6 is ok. R7 is kinda bad and you're actually better off with a (high end*) Undrafted than a R7.


* Although this no doubt contains some survivor bias, in that the average and bad UD ones never kick in the NFL to get measured, only the best UD ones are counted here (whereas almost all R7 punters play at least 1-2 yrs, a la Gill, I think).

Good catch - I read it as -0.0231 without really even thinking about it, but you're right - the number isn't actually negative in the article.

[thunderspirit]

i found myself wondering how physically imposting trenton gill is.

I can't speak for anyone else, but he made me run away when he punted.

[G08]

i found myself wondering how physically imposting trenton gill is.

I can't speak for anyone else, but he made me run away when he punted.

Well played

[HisRoyalSweetness]

"Not the most physically imposing guy. He's not built the best...He's not a really good athlete."

Okay? He's a punter...why does that matter? I mean, technically, he could have to tackle someone as a last line of defense, but that's not a situation you hope to see, basically, ever.

The guy's 6'4, weighs 225lb and played Aussie Rules. One thing I wouldn't be concerned about his toughness and willingness to tackle.

Has Bob McGinn ever watched any Aussie Rules?

[HisRoyalSweetness]

[HurricaneBear]

I really hope you are all right. Days later still thinking a punter is a mistake. You have all given me hope that he's worth it, but he's basically gotta be like a top 3 or 5 punter to be imo.

[malk]

I can't wait for the first time a kicker makes it to him and he goes back to his AFL roots.

From a glance he seems fairly versatile in his kicks which might account for some of the stats like hang time. I.e. if it's a better option to hoof it behind the returner into touch then do it and, um, hang the hang time!

I've often wondered about the options for guys with absolute cannon legs. If 45 yards is about league leading for net punt yards and you can hoof it 70 yards or more, then just blast for distance from your own 30 and don't worry about touchbacks. Also any time you can clear the returner they've got to turn to get to the ball then turn back to return it, which is a bunch of extra time for your coverage team. When it doubt, unleash the leg dragon!

[dplank]

I really hope you are all right. Days later still thinking a punter is a mistake. You have all given me hope that he's worth it, but he's basically gotta be like a top 3 or 5 punter to be imo.

He has a big leg, but his ability to place the ball is what is most enticing to me. Rugby/Aussie Rules guys know how to put English on the ball and can make it bounce how they want. When you can pin a team inside the 5 it’s damn near a turnover as teams typically just try and create a little room for their own punter and we get the bal right back. Our punters always seems to struggle with this and I can’t understand why more punters who can’t control spin don’t kick out of bounds / coffin corner. That used to be a given and now most have gone away from it. Gill was terrible at this. If we punt from midfield, we should have them at the 5. Gill would have teams at the 18 and folks were happy, that’s not good enough in that situation.

[HurricaneBear]

I really hope you are all right. Days later still thinking a punter is a mistake. You have all given me hope that he's worth it, but he's basically gotta be like a top 3 or 5 punter to be imo.

He has a big leg, but his ability to place the ball is what is most enticing to me. Rugby/Aussie Rules guys know how to put English on the ball and can make it bounce how they want. When you can pin a team inside the 5 it’s damn near a turnover as teams typically just try and create a little room for their own punter and we get the bal right back. Our punters always seems to struggle with this and I can’t understand why more punters who can’t control spin don’t kick out of bounds / coffin corner. That used to be a given and now most have gone away from it. Gill was terrible at this. If we punt from midfield, we should have them at the 5. Gill would have teams at the 18 and folks were happy, that’s not good enough in that situation.

But here's the thing.

That WAS super important because we have only know how to win with defense, running the ball and field position.

The Bears shouldn't need to be that team anymore. They should be a team striving to not have to punt or to make it far enough they are going for long field goals or going for it on 4th down.

Now obviously having a good player at ANY position is better than not. I want him to be good. But for me personally to justify this he has to be minimum top 5 at his position. In my mind that could have been a future top 10 HB or IOL or maybe even TE. All positions that still have great value in the 4th. That's what I would have done.

So let's hope he's what you think he is and I'll be on board. A punter drafted and failing is far more glaring then say if that pick was a RB that didn't work out. I'm rooting for the guy until he shows me reason not to. Just always that, what if we had pick x instead floating in my head...

[wab]

He has a big leg, but his ability to place the ball is what is most enticing to me. Rugby/Aussie Rules guys know how to put English on the ball and can make it bounce how they want. When you can pin a team inside the 5 it’s damn near a turnover as teams typically just try and create a little room for their own punter and we get the bal right back. Our punters always seems to struggle with this and I can’t understand why more punters who can’t control spin don’t kick out of bounds / coffin corner. That used to be a given and now most have gone away from it. Gill was terrible at this. If we punt from midfield, we should have them at the 5. Gill would have teams at the 18 and folks were happy, that’s not good enough in that situation.

But here's the thing.

That WAS super important because we have only know how to win with defense, running the ball and field position.

The Bears shouldn't need to be that team anymore. They should be a team striving to not have to punt or to make it far enough they are going for long field goals or going for it on 4th down.

Now obviously having a good player at ANY position is better than not. I want him to be good. But for me personally to justify this he has to be minimum top 5 at his position. In my mind that could have been a future top 10 HB or IOL or maybe even TE. All positions that still have great value in the 4th. That's what I would have done.

So let's hope he's what you think he is and I'll be on board. A punter drafted and failing is far more glaring then say if that pick was a RB that didn't work out. I'm rooting for the guy until he shows me reason not to. Just always that, what if we had pick x instead floating in my head...

You don't think that making an offense try and go 90-some yards doesn't also help the Bears offense? Short fields are what almost put Mitch Trubisky in a super bowl in 2018.