Any thought of Maxx Crosby saving our DE issue is gone

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https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/402 ... d-contract

No way are they trading him if they just did this.

I'm still leaning towards bringing back Ngakoue or Greene. I no longer want both so that Booker can get reps and we can see what he's got. But DE3/4 can't be just Booker and DomRob IMO.
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Me thinking of having both Sweat and Crosby as our DEs had we traded the 1 or maybe a different basket of picks....

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It's really too bad that Poles didn't go for Turner or Verse AND the best WR corps in the league.

I'll never truly understand it. I do like Booker...but he still is a gamble. Not really sure how good he'll be, not really sure if he's capable of playing a lot right away, etc.

It seems to me that a "name" needs to be added, as that's the only route open to him now. Whether that's a big or small name remains to be seen.
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Heinz D. wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 11:33 am It's really too bad that Poles didn't go for Turner or Verse AND the best WR corps in the league.

I'll never truly understand it. I do like Booker...but he still is a gamble. Not really sure how good he'll be, not really sure if he's capable of playing a lot right away, etc.

It seems to me that a "name" needs to be added, as that's the only route open to him now. Whether that's a big or small name remains to be seen.
I keep thinking in the back of my mind that Poles has another Montez Sweat Moment and uses one of those 4 picks we have in the first three rounds in 2025 to trade a guy.

This is why having the QB and 2 OTs on rookie deals is so amazing. That's $100M in artificial cap space we have as a result.

It would be tough to shoe-horn a big salary guy onto the team in 2024 from a cap perspective.

However the salary cap isn't really a real number. Contracts get changed all the time and space is created.

That's really the last piece this team needs too. That second credible pass rusher.
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 11:57 am That's really the last piece this team needs too. That second credible pass rusher.
Yeah...and it's sure unfortunate that we don't have that, right now.

We'll see how things shake out. But, to realize that may be a "wait 'til next year" kinda thing is a totally disappointing deal...
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Heinz D. wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 12:33 pm
The Marshall Plan wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 11:57 am That's really the last piece this team needs too. That second credible pass rusher.
Yeah...and it's sure unfortunate that we don't have that, right now.

We'll see how things shake out. But, to realize that may be a "wait 'til next year" kinda thing is a totally disappointing deal...
Which now begs a question.

What is this team's REALISTIC ceiling for 2024?

I think our ceiling is extremely high. The problem is that it all depends upon a giant unknown; a rookie QB.

Our schedule could not be easier.

The offense is loaded and on paper can drop 30 on anybody.

The defense should be really. I would think above average. Top 15 for sure.

Are we a playoff team? We have to be right.

So if we are, then yeah, we're in a contention window. That's when you go for The Guy.

But whose to say? It all comes down to Caleb. Then we need to learn from Pace. The Mack trade would've been a genius move had Parkey made that FG.

For me it comes down to do we have the ability to keep Keenan Allen, maintain Super Duper Offense for 2025 and 2026, and still get DE2?
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 12:42 pm
Heinz D. wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 12:33 pm

Yeah...and it's sure unfortunate that we don't have that, right now.

We'll see how things shake out. But, to realize that may be a "wait 'til next year" kinda thing is a totally disappointing deal...
Which now begs a question.

What is this team's REALISTIC ceiling for 2024?

I think our ceiling is extremely high. The problem is that it all depends upon a giant unknown; a rookie QB.

Our schedule could not be easier.

The offense is loaded and on paper can drop 30 on anybody.

The defense should be really. I would think above average. Top 15 for sure.

Are we a playoff team? We have to be right.

So if we are, then yeah, we're in a contention window. That's when you go for The Guy.

But whose to say? It all comes down to Caleb. Then we need to learn from Pace. The Mack trade would've been a genius move had Parkey made that FG.

For me it comes down to do we have the ability to keep Keenan Allen, maintain Super Duper Offense for 2025 and 2026, and still get DE2?
Sign Nagokue this year. Work Rome in slowly, eventually beginning to phase Allen to #3 and Rome to #2.

Draft DE in the 1st and WR in the 2nd next year. Let Allen walk. DJ Moore, Rome, 2nd Rnd Rookie and hopefully an emerging Tyler Scott can keep Super Duper Offense rolling. You just have to hope that DE pick hits.

Yes DE is a weak spot right now and it's hard to adequately fill. 2025 and 2026 there should be no issues with it or WR.

Thats my plan at least
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 12:42 pm For me it comes down to do we have the ability to keep Keenan Allen, maintain Super Duper Offense for 2025 and 2026, and still get DE2?
Well, sure. And we most definitely can do that. And I'm sure that's, most likely, the plan going forward.

I just wish we had DE2 RIGHT NOW. As that would probably ensure a playoff run.
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Booker would’ve been a first rounder in 2025 if he stayed in school. By 2026 he’ll be like Crosby.
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BearsFanInMN wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 11:32 pm Booker would’ve been a first rounder in 2025 if he stayed in school. By 2026 he’ll be like Crosby.
In addition to the whole "move him inside to guard" thing, this is another Bears draft pick trope that I wish would go away.

Late Round Pick So & So Is Just Like Superstar Player Such & Such.
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Heinz D. wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 2:02 pm I just wish we had DE2 RIGHT NOW. As that would probably ensure a playoff run.
It would be nice, but the defense once they added Sweat was amongst the best in the league. As long as he stays healthy it should be capable of performing at a high level again this season.

There are an awful lot of young players on that side of the ball, particularly in the secondary and on the interior defensive line. Gordon and Brisker are entering their third year and Stevenson, Smith, Dexter and Pickens are all entering their second. All but Smith were drafted on Day 2. It's reasonable to expect improvement from them.

Most of the rest of were free agent additions last year too. Edmunds, Edwards, Billings, Walker and Sweat should all benefit from having spent a year (or a partial year in Sweat's case) in the system.

I expect some veteran competition will be added at both DT and DE before the season starts, but pickings are going to be pretty slim.
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HurricaneBear wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 1:48 pm
The Marshall Plan wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 12:42 pm

Which now begs a question.

What is this team's REALISTIC ceiling for 2024?

I think our ceiling is extremely high. The problem is that it all depends upon a giant unknown; a rookie QB.

Our schedule could not be easier.

The offense is loaded and on paper can drop 30 on anybody.

The defense should be really. I would think above average. Top 15 for sure.

Are we a playoff team? We have to be right.

So if we are, then yeah, we're in a contention window. That's when you go for The Guy.

But whose to say? It all comes down to Caleb. Then we need to learn from Pace. The Mack trade would've been a genius move had Parkey made that FG.

For me it comes down to do we have the ability to keep Keenan Allen, maintain Super Duper Offense for 2025 and 2026, and still get DE2?
Sign Nagokue this year. Work Rome in slowly, eventually beginning to phase Allen to #3 and Rome to #2.

Draft DE in the 1st and WR in the 2nd next year. Let Allen walk. DJ Moore, Rome, 2nd Rnd Rookie and hopefully an emerging Tyler Scott can keep Super Duper Offense rolling. You just have to hope that DE pick hits.

Yes DE is a weak spot right now and it's hard to adequately fill. 2025 and 2026 there should be no issues with it or WR.

Thats my plan at least
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 12:42 pm
Heinz D. wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 12:33 pm

Yeah...and it's sure unfortunate that we don't have that, right now.

We'll see how things shake out. But, to realize that may be a "wait 'til next year" kinda thing is a totally disappointing deal...
Which now begs a question.

What is this team's REALISTIC ceiling for 2024?
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Tue May 28, 2024 2:35 am
BearsFanInMN wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 11:32 pm Booker would’ve been a first rounder in 2025 if he stayed in school. By 2026 he’ll be like Crosby.
In addition to the whole "move him inside to guard" thing, this is another Bears draft pick trope that I wish would go away.

Late Round Pick So & So Is Just Like Superstar Player Such & Such.
Yeah. I’ve had so many of those posts. Apologies as I will walk back an opinion I’ve had pre draft due to your sheer volume of posts per day being staggering. I could point to a podcast where I said I’d love him day 2, but that seems more like a TMP “hey look at me” post,
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BearsFanInMN wrote: Tue May 28, 2024 8:15 pm
The Marshall Plan wrote: Tue May 28, 2024 2:35 am

In addition to the whole "move him inside to guard" thing, this is another Bears draft pick trope that I wish would go away.

Late Round Pick So & So Is Just Like Superstar Player Such & Such.
Yeah. I’ve had so many of those posts. Apologies as I will walk back an opinion I’ve had pre draft due to your sheer volume of posts per day being staggering. I could point to a podcast where I said I’d love him day 2, but that seems more like a TMP “hey look at me” post,
Well, OK, but this goes back to my whole We Wanted Odunze This Whole Time Schtick in that other thread.

Draft comments are chock full of bullshit.

Do you really think that 32(?) NFL GMs would've passed over the ALLEGED Next Maxx Crosby four times in the same draft? Are all of them that stupid? If he really was ZOMG THE NEXT MAXX CROSBY wouldn't you think Poles would've drafted him ahead of a fucking punter? Or a backup OL like he did in the third?

This happens every year too.

That and the whole bullshit of OMG THIS GUY CAME TO CAMP TOTALLY RIPPED!!!!! HE'S GONNA HAVE A GREAT YEAR!!!!
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 2:47 am Do you really think that 32(?) NFL GMs would've passed over the ALLEGED Next Maxx Crosby four times in the same draft? Are all of them that stupid?
To be fair 32 GMs passed on Maxx Crosby at least 3 times in the same draft.

I believe BearsFanInMN is offering his opinion of Booker rather than the opinions of any of the current GMs.

That said, I agree fans frequently go overboard with their expectations of draft picks before the players have even stepped foot on an NFL field . Rarely do those projections prove to be accurate. l don't share his degree of optimism, but let's hope BearsFanInMN's take on Booker is one of the exceptions. It would certainly be a huge result for our favourite team!
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If every draft pick was as good as their fan base thinks they will be after draft day, the NFL would be full of nothing but All Pros. I’m with TMP here, we see this every year that “so and so was a steal” and all that - they got drafted where they got drafted for a reason. Let’s hope for the best and plan for the worst.
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HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 7:43 am
The Marshall Plan wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 2:47 am Do you really think that 32(?) NFL GMs would've passed over the ALLEGED Next Maxx Crosby four times in the same draft? Are all of them that stupid?
To be fair 32 GMs passed on Maxx Crosby at least 3 times in the same draft.

I believe BearsFanInMN is offering his opinion of Booker rather than the opinions of any of the current GMs.

That said, I agree fans frequently go overboard with their expectations of draft picks before the players have even stepped foot on an NFL field . Rarely do those projections prove to be accurate. l don't share his degree of optimism, but let's hope BearsFanInMN's take on Booker is one of the exceptions. It would certainly be a huge result for our favourite team!
But you do understand that Poles drafted a punter and Eberflus’ golfing buddy ahead of him right?

Why do you think that is?
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 8:24 am
HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 7:43 am To be fair 32 GMs passed on Maxx Crosby at least 3 times in the same draft.

I believe BearsFanInMN is offering his opinion of Booker rather than the opinions of any of the current GMs.

That said, I agree fans frequently go overboard with their expectations of draft picks before the players have even stepped foot on an NFL field . Rarely do those projections prove to be accurate. l don't share his degree of optimism, but let's hope BearsFanInMN's take on Booker is one of the exceptions. It would certainly be a huge result for our favourite team!
But you do understand that Poles drafted a punter and Eberflus’ golfing buddy ahead of him right?

Why do you think that is?
We all know why that is. Poles also drafted VJJ before his starting LT. Where a player is drafted doesn't necessarily reflect how well he'll do in the NFL.

BearsFanInMN has very high hopes for Booker. You and I don't share his level of optimism. It's just his opinion as a fan though and has nothing to do with Poles' or any other GM's evaluations.

Booker was picked in the 5th round because he's a project and opted to enter the draft a year early despite expectations that he would significantly increase his draft prospects if he'd have stayed in school for another season. It was an interesting choice. He'll get to spend this year honing his skills in an NFL program rather than a college one. I expect little from him this season but hope he'll become at least a decent player. Expecting any player outside of the top prospects to become a blue chip guy isn't something I've ever subscribed to but it does sometimes happen. Crosby is a case in point. It's possible Booker could become one too. It's equally possible he amounts to nothing.
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Draft position means absolutely dick the moment the draft concludes.
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wab wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 10:21 am Draft position means absolutely dick the moment the draft concludes.
Were you in the He’s Maxx Crosby crowd?
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Both things are true. Draft position means nothing after he's been drafted, it's all about his performance relative to his peers from that moment on.

It's also true that when forecasting the probability of success of a drafted player (which is where this convo was going), that draft position is a critically important element to that forecast. The numbers don't lie, and the odds of a player becoming an elite talent very clearly erode the further down you are drafted.
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 10:36 am
wab wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 10:21 am Draft position means absolutely dick the moment the draft concludes.
Were you in the He’s Maxx Crosby crowd?
I mentioned during the draft that the pundits were calling him Maxx Crosby-lite. It's not like this was made up out of thin air...draft experts were saying it.
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wab wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 11:33 am
The Marshall Plan wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 10:36 am

Were you in the He’s Maxx Crosby crowd?
I mentioned during the draft that the pundits were calling him Maxx Crosby-lite. It's not like this was made up out of thin air...draft experts were saying it.
There's a big difference between using something as a descriptor (and even using the word LITE to imply, "not as good as"), to someone using that comment as a projection, and ignoring the lite part to boot and simply saying that's who they'll be. Fans always do this. Sometimes it works out, usually it doesn't and it becomes apparent sooner or later why they were drafted where they were.

Hope for the best, plan for the worst!
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wab wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 10:21 am Draft position means absolutely dick the moment the draft concludes.
Not entirely true.

It's accurate to say that guys get a chance to produce no matter where they're drafted, but it's also true that guys who are higher draft picks tend to get more chances than guys who aren't, both from the drafting team and any subsequent employer.

Draft position is a confluence of risk you're willing to take vs. reward you're projecting to get, though. It's not really much more predictive than that.
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 2:47 am
Well, OK, but this goes back to my whole We Wanted Odunze This Whole Time Schtick in that other thread.

Draft comments are chock full of bullshit.

Do you really think that 32(?) NFL GMs would've passed over the ALLEGED Next Maxx Crosby four times in the same draft? Are all of them that stupid? If he really was ZOMG THE NEXT MAXX CROSBY wouldn't you think Poles would've drafted him ahead of a fucking punter? Or a backup OL like he did in the third?

This happens every year too.

That and the whole bullshit of OMG THIS GUY CAME TO CAMP TOTALLY RIPPED!!!!! HE'S GONNA HAVE A GREAT YEAR!!!!
I do agree a lot of people get excited about the possibility of the unknown and think they have a gem people missed. It’s like a 4th round WR could be anything…he might even be last few years of Keenan Allen.

I might have been a few cocktails into WCF game 4 and taken it too personally for which I do apologize.

We talk ourselves in to every draft class and what every other team missed. Thinking we got the exception rather than the rule. I just liked the kid and was trying to be somewhat funny. But Dane Brugler and Rick Spielman were high on him too. Also saw high risk/reward attached to him so readily accept it could be another DomRob. Seen couldve been a first next year but also needs more experience hand in the dirt, develop counters, and at least 15lb of muscle. I can see why people passed and also why Poles was trying to get him as soon as they grabbed the punter.

I don’t expect much year 1 but I like the gamble long term.
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wab wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 11:33 am
The Marshall Plan wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 10:36 am

Were you in the He’s Maxx Crosby crowd?
I mentioned during the draft that the pundits were calling him Maxx Crosby-lite. It's not like this was made up out of thin air...draft experts were saying it.
Well then......"draft experts".........
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“The things we saw on tape that we were attracted to, we’re seeing on the field right now. Some of the unorthodox movements; some of the difficulty to block with his ability to slip and slide and get on the edge and beat [someone] with an inside move. He has a high motor. He plays with good effort. He’s got a very long way to go, though, from a conditioning and physicality standpoint, from getting the system in.”

- Bears defensive line coach Travis Smith talking about Booker
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