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dplank
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Not great. Bottom 5 units on OL and DL they claim. DL I get, but OL is not bottom 5 IMO.

https://apple.news/AR0QwfHllR3um5VKV4uLlSw
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HisRoyalSweetness
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PFF? Pff.

It's been a long time since I've put any stock in their ratings. Persuading people to pay for their 'premium' service is one of the biggest cons out there. They get far more attention from the media than they deserve too.

It's supposed to be a list of starters, but just take a look at the players listed. Why two RBs but only 1 TE, especially given Waldron's known propensity for playing multiple TE sets? Why 3 DEs but only 2 DTs? Why only 2 LBs? Why not include Sanborn as the starting SLB?

If they're going to list defensive starters then the 12 should include the SLB for the base defense and NB for the nickel defense. A third DE shouldn't be included. Swapping out Robinson and his 35.4 rating for Sanborn and his 63.7 rating might see the Bears ranked higher overall than 20th.

Oh and they include Ryan Bates at center with a 78.7 rating but he only played 35 snaps all of last year rendering such a rating essentially meaningless. They gave Shelton a grade of 66.1 and ranked him as the 17th best center. Why list Bates as the starter?
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The Marshall Plan
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HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2024 11:22 pm PFF? Pff.
This is where I'm at. Fuck them.

There's no accountability for these media talking heads to be right. They can rank things, predict outcomes, and do draft analysis all day long. But when they're wrong do they get fired? Marginalized? Nope.

It's the same group of idiots every year.

I wonder how much the moron at PFF got paid to say Mahomes is a great QB.
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Bearfacts
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PFF ranking? I have no shits to give and neither should anyone else. Both lines should carry a sign that says Work in Progress. In January we'll have a much better idea of what we have there.
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2024 3:10 am
HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2024 11:22 pm PFF? Pff.
This is where I'm at. Fuck them.
Agreed
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dave99
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When your QB is among the leagues worst in average time to throw, you have only one reliable WR and the OC is not up to the job, the offensive line is bound to suffer.
Even if you believe PFF, and you don't account for the maturation of both tackles and the center upgrade, it is not likely that 2024 will look anything like 2023.
It's like saying your house had the lowest market value on the block before you gutted, upgraded and remodeled.
It may be true, but so what?
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dplank
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I did laugh when I saw that DomRob rating lol, that seemed spot on at least.

I share the boards disdain for PFF, but they aren't THAT far off. We all liked it when they ranked our WR and DB and LB groups in the Top 5, and I completely agree with their POV that our DL is bottom 5. OL is dubious, but we'll just have to go and show them we are better than that and I think we will.

But just top of mind, I've rated our WR/DB/LB and maaaaybe TE groups all Top 5 personally, and our DL group bottom 5, so I'm feeling fairly well aligned with them. I just have our OL as middle of the pack level, with upside. Which for the Bears is a big deal lol as we typically sport one of the worst OL's in football.

Next draft I expect a lot of players taken on OL/DL, and then we are going on a massive run of championship level football!
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The Marshall Plan
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dplank wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2024 9:22 am Next draft I expect a lot of players taken on OL/DL, and then we are going on a massive run of championship level football!
While I am psyched beyond all belief about this season and believe this team has massive potential for a magical year in 2024, I have this feeling that the season ends and we're hungry.

Whatever that last game is, regular season, playoffs (this), we're going to walk away like, OK motherfuckers this is the start of something special.

When was the last time you believed we had a GM with a brain? Somebody with a long term view to build a sustained winning franchise? I don't get the feeling that Poles wants to build a winner for 2024. I get the feeling that he wants a competitive / contending team to last years.

Poles didn't just draft Caleb Williams. He knew right away when you get that QB you build around him. Here comes Waldron, the trade for Allen, drafting Odunze when he dropped even though we already had 2 good / great WRs plus Kmet.

When Poles gets that DL figured out this team is going to be scary.
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mmmc_35
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Braxton Jones LT 68.8
Teven Jenkins LG 72.6
Ryan Bates C 78.7
Nate Davis RG 52.9
Darnell Wright RT 62.4

Andrew Billings DT 76.4
Gervon Dexter Sr. DT 50.9
DeMarcus Walker DE 72.8
Montez Sweat DE 74.8

Okay so argue with what ranking is wrong and why.

Nate davis was bad. So.. that checks out. Wright is a rookie who really started to look decent by the end. I think that ranking might be a bit low. Bates was a back up so that's not a good sample size. Jones played okay but wasn't great. So that checks out.

Jenkins seems to be the one that is the most misaligned. He seemed to be playing at a very high level when on the field.

I'm suprised billings was as highly graded. He played well but not the best player on the line. Sweat was great here. He had 8 games in Washington. I don't know how he played there.

Dexter is the one that seems odd. Yes he was a rookie. He definitely improved and flashed his strength. But he didn't make a ton of plays.

This is my quick analysis without looking deep in to the topic. However I don't think it's inherently wrong.
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dplank
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I have discrepancies here:

Guys ranked too low: Sweat, Jenkins, Wright, and Dexter.

Guys ranked too high: Bates (sample size), Billings, and Walker.

Also some incompleteness here. Where are Pickens, Shelton? Two rookies unaccounted for also, which I get.

What’s weird is I think our starting 4 on the DL is in the 20ish range, it’s the depth that scares me and PFF isn’t really considering the depth pieces but still have us bottom 5.
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Otis Day
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IMO, rankings are just to generate conversation and clicks to the respective sites. I don't give a damn about anyyone's and any rankings. I don't need someone saying the OL is middling or worse, I can see that myself.
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dave99
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To my point regarding the OL

[video][/video]
The secret is to work less as individuals and more as a team. As a coach, I play not my eleven best, but my best eleven.
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dplank wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2024 12:28 pm I have discrepancies here:

Guys ranked too low: Sweat, Jenkins, Wright, and Dexter.

Guys ranked too high: Bates (sample size), Billings, and Walker.

Also some incompleteness here. Where are Pickens, Shelton? Two rookies unaccounted for also, which I get.

What’s weird is I think our starting 4 on the DL is in the 20ish range, it’s the depth that scares me and PFF isn’t really considering the depth pieces but still have us bottom 5.
Billings was really good last year
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HisRoyalSweetness
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ESPN had Billings ranked 8th for interior DL for run stop win rate.
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HisRoyalSweetness
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This is surprising:
2024 NFL secondary rankings
...

19. CHICAGO BEARS
The Bears signed cornerback Jaylon Johnson to a big contract extension this offseason after a career year. They also added safety Kevin Byard, who’s been one of the best safeties in the NFL since entering the league. Cornerbacks Kyler Gordon and Tyrique Stevenson had their ups and downs in 2023, as did safety Jaquan Brisker, but this unit could be extremely good in 2024 if it plays to its high-end abilities.
...

Full article: https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-secondary-rankings-2024
Then again, it's PFF so maybe not.
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dplank
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HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 1:12 pm This is surprising:
2024 NFL secondary rankings
...

19. CHICAGO BEARS
The Bears signed cornerback Jaylon Johnson to a big contract extension this offseason after a career year. They also added safety Kevin Byard, who’s been one of the best safeties in the NFL since entering the league. Cornerbacks Kyler Gordon and Tyrique Stevenson had their ups and downs in 2023, as did safety Jaquan Brisker, but this unit could be extremely good in 2024 if it plays to its high-end abilities.
...

Full article: https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-secondary-rankings-2024
Then again, it's PFF so maybe not.
Saw that! That one shocked me and explains better how they have our overall roster so low. I disagree with them big time here.
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Bearfacts
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PFF = an organization who seems to have difficulty explaining it's own metrics. Why do we even care how they rank anything when a unit that begins the year highly ranked may step on it's dick or suffer due to injuries and a unit stocked with younger players may suddenly catch fire much like the Bears secondary did late last season. I dunno but to me it's all pretty meaningless.
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dplank
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Bearfacts wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 2:10 pm PFF = an organization who seems to have difficulty explaining it's own metrics. Why do we even care how they rank anything when a unit that begins the year highly ranked may step on it's dick or suffer due to injuries and a unit stocked with younger players may suddenly catch fire much like the Bears secondary did late last season. I dunno but to me it's all pretty meaningless.
I agree and always have an * on anything they do. But I do like seeing how non partisan entities like PFF or ESPN view our team. It’s a bit of a sanity check against my own bias. While I disagree with PFF here, I agree with their other position assessments so TBH it has me questioning if I’m over valuing some of our secondary guys.
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Bearfacts
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dplank wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 2:31 pm
Bearfacts wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 2:10 pm PFF = an organization who seems to have difficulty explaining it's own metrics. Why do we even care how they rank anything when a unit that begins the year highly ranked may step on it's dick or suffer due to injuries and a unit stocked with younger players may suddenly catch fire much like the Bears secondary did late last season. I dunno but to me it's all pretty meaningless.
I agree and always have an * on anything they do. But I do like seeing how non partisan entities like PFF or ESPN view our team. It’s a bit of a sanity check against my own bias. While I disagree with PFF here, I agree with their other position assessments so TBH it has me questioning if I’m over valuing some of our secondary guys.
Who? When I look at what they did collectively I'd say they did well for a bunch of guys playing behind a DL with a poor pass rush. I don't see a weak spot at all and Byard should be counted on to make the secondary even better. One of the bigger issues we've had is with EJax tackling and that's been resolved with bringing in Byard. Paired with Brisker I think Safety got much better.

Stevenson finished strong and is going into year two. Gordon's play improved and we have some decent vet depth at all positions we've lacked in the past. I have no idea how PFF or any of these critics come up with their ranking on any kind of quantifiable basis. Do they? How much separation is there between the 10th ranked and 20th ranked unit?

I know why they do it from a business perspective but personally I believe it's all kinda useless or no less useless than any other predictive analysis. Maybe this stuff has a value for the FF Leagues of America but for me it's useless. It all happens out on the field not in some writer or analysts head.
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HisRoyalSweetness
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It's ESPN rather than PFF, but after dplank opened this thread with low rankings of the Bears offensive and defensive lines this might cheer people up:
Ranking NFL team WR, TE, RB talent for 2024 season: Top players
...

6. Chicago Bears
2023 rank: 17 | 2022 rank: 31


It has been only two years since the Bears were starting Velus Jones and Dante Pettis at wide receiver. Things have turned quickly. I'm not sure if Keenan Allen, D.J. Moore and Rome Odunze form the best trio of wide receivers a quarterback has had during a rookie season, but it can't be far off. (Matt Leinart having Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin and Bryant Johnson and then Edgerrin James at running back in 2006 was pretty nice.) Odunze would be the most exciting wideout on a quarter of the league's teams before ever playing a snap; here, he's probably the No. 3 out of the gates.

There are reasons to think the expectations might be too high. Odunze, the No. 9 pick, is still unproven. Allen is 32, and while he was still at peak efficiency on the field with the Chargers last season, the 11-year pro has missed 11 games and parts of two more over the past two seasons with various injuries. The Bears might not throw the ball around frequently enough to get all three guys the numbers they're expecting. If two of these three wideouts live up to the hopes of fans in 2024, though, that's just fine for Chicago. Cole Kmet also averaged just under 2.0 yards per route run last season, which is plenty efficient for a tight end.

I'm a little concerned about running back. Free agent signing D'Andre Swift is coming off a big year in Philadelphia, but I'd poke a couple of holes in his performance. After struggling for consistency in Detroit, he started the 2023 season by posting a 63.2% success rate through the first four weeks. He fell off to 38.8% the rest of the way. The NFL Next Gen Stats model thought his production was mostly a product of Philly's blocking, with Swift generating minus-65 rush yards over expectation on 229 rush attempts. The average back with his blocking would have generated 4.9 rushing yards per attempt, the second most generous expectation in the league for a back with at least 100 carries. Roschon Johnson posted minus-61 rush yards over expectation as a rookie, while the Bears don't seem convinced Khalil Herbert can be the featured back. I'd temper my enthusiasm a little bit, but Chicago has enough firepower to keep Caleb Williams satiated in 2024.
...

Full article: https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/ ... lphins#CHI
There's a long list of criteria at the start of the article to try and explain how Barnwell has decided on these rankings.

Other NFC North rankings:
17. Packers
7. Lions
5. Vikings
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Rusty Trombagent
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"It has been only two years since the Bears were starting Velus Jones and Dante Pettis at wide receiver. "


I dont remember how this worked out. I assume we won the super bowl that year?
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dplank
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Rusty Trombagent wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2024 3:24 pm "It has been only two years since the Bears were starting Velus Jones and Dante Pettis at wide receiver. "


I dont remember how this worked out. I assume we won the super bowl that year?
No, but half of Bears nation gave up on our QB at the end of that season and said he should have succeeded anyways because Tom Brady would have. Good times had by all!

;)

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The Marshall Plan
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dplank wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2024 3:27 pm
Rusty Trombagent wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2024 3:24 pm "It has been only two years since the Bears were starting Velus Jones and Dante Pettis at wide receiver. "


I dont remember how this worked out. I assume we won the super bowl that year?
No, but half of Bears nation gave up on our QB at the end of that season and said he should have succeeded anyways because Tom Brady would have. Good times had by all!

;)

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Fucking A.

Let’s stick Caleb with McNagy and his band of losers and let’s see how bright the sunshine is then.
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If only he had ever gotten a chance to play with this "DJ Moore" and "Cole Kmet" character
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HisRoyalSweetness
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Rusty Trombagent wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2024 3:24 pm "It has been only two years since the Bears were starting Velus Jones and Dante Pettis at wide receiver. "


I dont remember how this worked out. I assume we won the super bowl that year?
Didn't Jones catch the opening kick off at the 6 yard line and weave 94 yards through the coverage before raising the ball aloft to celebrate just he was about to cross the goal line... only to fumble it through the back of the end zone for a touchback?
Last edited by HisRoyalSweetness on Thu Jul 11, 2024 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Heinz D.
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2024 3:46 pm Fucking A.

Let’s stick Caleb with McNagy and his band of losers and let’s see how bright the sunshine is then.
Caleb probably would ensure Nagy a head coaching job in Chicago for the rest of his days. Not that this would be DESERVED, mind you...
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