dplank wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 9:41 am
That 4th rounder is looking like darn near a lock right now. Fields already started 4 games and is playing so well I can't imagine they'd change to Russ. Here's his stat line after 4 weeks:
77/109 Comp/PA
Comp% - 70.6% which ranks 7th in the NFL
6 Total TD's against just 1 Turnover (1 turnover in 4 games is excellent)
10 sacks for 73 lost yards (this is right down the middle average in the league right now)
QB Rating - 98.0 (puts him 11th in the league if you remove Flacco who only played part of one game)
QBR - 52.1 (puts him 18th)
And while not a QB stat, the team is 3-1. So I just can't see Tomlin making a switch at QB.
Those are solid numbers for a guy on a new team learning a new offense. The offense still isn't scoring a ton of points (interesting that they lost the week when they had their best offensive output), and it seemed like the Steelers still wouldn't fully commit to him as the starter going forward, but I don't know if that's just gamesmanship or if they've talked more about it recently (haven't been paying attention to Steelers' media).
I'm very curious to see what he looks like against some better teams. Their schedule is pretty forgiving until the 2nd half. Hopefully he's got 9 starts under his belt by then!
Last game is an interesting question. (For a Coach)
Steelers Offense basically did nothing in the 1st half - and they were down 17-3 at Half. There was a drive that should have been points though where Steelers (NOT Fields) fumbled though
2nd Half - Fields fumbles and loses it right away- in Pitt territory- Colts don't gain yardage really - BUT miss the FG (20-3 would have been rough)
Steelers do battle back in 2nd Half - It was getting CLOSE to garbage time production, but never there - and ultimately they make a game of it- though the Colts never Trail
Steelers DID have the ball late - with chance to Tie (Field Goal) or Win (TD) - 2:39 left on Clock - so PLENTY of time. Fields and Offense do NOT get it done in the Clutch
Fields has his best running game of the year thus far BUT also the most sacks on the year (4) (Back over 10% Sack Rate for the game) and 2 fumbles
As a Coach - it's a mixed bag at best. (I know apologists will point to 3 TD! No INT! (Fumbles to be ignored) and that teams tend to do poorly when they give up 27 points, etc)
But where do you put the emphasis?
The bad first half? The fumbles? The opportunity squandered to win/tie at the end? The fumble in the 2nd half that could have been the end?
Or is it - Battling back, keeping them in the game, making some plays with arm and legs? and ultimately just coming up short, no INTs.
I think it's probably still mixed bag with the negatives outweighing the positives but not crazily so
dplank wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 9:41 am
That 4th rounder is looking like darn near a lock right now. Fields already started 4 games and is playing so well I can't imagine they'd change to Russ. Here's his stat line after 4 weeks:
77/109 Comp/PA
Comp% - 70.6% which ranks 7th in the NFL
6 Total TD's against just 1 Turnover (1 turnover in 4 games is excellent)
10 sacks for 73 lost yards (this is right down the middle average in the league right now)
QB Rating - 98.0 (puts him 11th in the league if you remove Flacco who only played part of one game)
QBR - 52.1 (puts him 18th)
And while not a QB stat, the team is 3-1. So I just can't see Tomlin making a switch at QB.
4th Rounder is what ultimately matters. Now onto the cherrypicked stats!
QB Rating doesn't matter at all - honestly if a person was working in Football and they went up to a decision-maker and tried to make a serious point referencing QB Rating - you'd probably have their keys to the building before Lunch.
He has 3 Fumbles already. Only lost 1 of them - but if you don't think that matters - then you are misleading yourself. 3 fumbles in 4 games would not be considered "Excellent"
Sack Rate is more important than Sacks outright. If you only throw the ball 20 times a game - you are probably gonna take less sacks then a team throwing it 40 times a game. But that's a situation where if you get sacked 5 times on 25 dropbacks - that's WAY worse than 7 Sacks on 47 Dropbacks
On the Record thing (3-1 is indeed a Fact) - I just wouldn't be so sure on that (I'm not saying it doesn't matter at all, just that it wouldn't shock me in the least if Tomlin doesn't care about it)
Pittsburgh is in a three way tie for 22nd overall in terms of Points scored (and thats with a decent chunk of particularly Long FG in that 1st game) - Most QBs will win you the game when the opponent is averaging less than 10 Points per game
Tomlin had a chance to basically say Fields was the starter (he could have even used a phrase to give him some leeway for when (IF?) Russ is ever healthy) - and he kind of went out of his way not to say that.
Pittsburgh hasn't had good QB play in quite some time now - they also haven't had a losing record in that span of subpar QB play - and they keep moving on from the QBs (In fairness - not usually in season)
So I don't get the feeling that Tomlin puts all that much stock into it. I could be wrong.
There is also that 4th -All things being equal the Steelers are incentivized (currently) to not play Fields
From a high level view Fields is having a name game manager season so far, albeit a slightly unusual one with fairly high yards per pass attempt given his nice deep ball. Why game manager? 2.8% TD rate on passes to 0.9% interceptions and his 3 wins are with 20 or fewer points when the defence gives up 10, 6 and 10. I think you can live with that for a good amount of time, especially as his passing success % is up to a league average ish at 45.4%.
Where I'd have concerns is that his rushing is at a career low of 3.8 YPC on a career low 47.4 success %. That's fine for a QB but not with his fairly pedestrian passing numbers. He either needs to improve/expand as a passer or bring back some more explosive rushing to his game. 3 TDs is admittedly good for 2nd in the league but given they're only 22nd overall in points scored and they don't have any other rushing TDs I don't think he's adding to their rushing game rather than just being a part of a league average one.
It's obviously early in his Steelers career and I do think he can progress somewhat, but I think Poles will be looking at his performances and be thinking that's exactly why he decided to move on.
Re: FBR: Fields struggling in shorts
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2024 5:39 pm
by HisRoyalSweetness
One former Bears QB taking a look at the play of another former Bears QB:
Fields threw a couple of throws running to his left that weren't dissimilar to those we've drooled over his successor in Chicago making. He's also still having to cope with wayward snaps just like he did in Chicago.
4th Rounder is what ultimately matters. Now onto the cherrypicked stats!
QB Rating doesn't matter at all - honestly if a person was working in Football and they went up to a decision-maker and tried to make a serious point referencing QB Rating - you'd probably have their keys to the building before Lunch.
He has 3 Fumbles already. Only lost 1 of them - but if you don't think that matters - then you are misleading yourself. 3 fumbles in 4 games would not be considered "Excellent"
Sack Rate is more important than Sacks outright. If you only throw the ball 20 times a game - you are probably gonna take less sacks then a team throwing it 40 times a game. But that's a situation where if you get sacked 5 times on 25 dropbacks - that's WAY worse than 7 Sacks on 47 Dropbacks
On the Record thing (3-1 is indeed a Fact) - I just wouldn't be so sure on that (I'm not saying it doesn't matter at all, just that it wouldn't shock me in the least if Tomlin doesn't care about it)
Pittsburgh is in a three way tie for 22nd overall in terms of Points scored (and thats with a decent chunk of particularly Long FG in that 1st game) - Most QBs will win you the game when the opponent is averaging less than 10 Points per game
Tomlin had a chance to basically say Fields was the starter (he could have even used a phrase to give him some leeway for when (IF?) Russ is ever healthy) - and he kind of went out of his way not to say that.
Pittsburgh hasn't had good QB play in quite some time now - they also haven't had a losing record in that span of subpar QB play - and they keep moving on from the QBs (In fairness - not usually in season)
So I don't get the feeling that Tomlin puts all that much stock into it. I could be wrong.
There is also that 4th -All things being equal the Steelers are incentivized (currently) to not play Fields
From a high level view Fields is having a name game manager season so far, albeit a slightly unusual one with fairly high yards per pass attempt given his nice deep ball. Why game manager? 2.8% TD rate on passes to 0.9% interceptions and his 3 wins are with 20 or fewer points when the defence gives up 10, 6 and 10. I think you can live with that for a good amount of time, especially as his passing success % is up to a league average ish at 45.4%.
Where I'd have concerns is that his rushing is at a career low of 3.8 YPC on a career low 47.4 success %. That's fine for a QB but not with his fairly pedestrian passing numbers. He either needs to improve/expand as a passer or bring back some more explosive rushing to his game. 3 TDs is admittedly good for 2nd in the league but given they're only 22nd overall in points scored and they don't have any other rushing TDs I don't think he's adding to their rushing game rather than just being a part of a league average one.
It's obviously early in his Steelers career and I do think he can progress somewhat, but I think Poles will be looking at his performances and be thinking that's exactly why he decided to move on.
Very Fair
Re: FBR: Fields struggling in shorts
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2024 9:14 pm
by RichH55
HisRoyalSweetness wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2024 5:39 pm
One former Bears QB taking a look at the play of another former Bears QB:
Fields threw a couple of throws running to his left that weren't dissimilar to those we've drooled over his successor in Chicago making. He's also still having to cope with wayward snaps just like he did in Chicago.
At a certain point when it's like Center number 5 or 6 - it's tough to keep putting it on the Center.
Whats that joke/line?
"If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole." -Raylan Givens, Justified
Re: FBR: Fields struggling in shorts
Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2024 11:44 am
by HisRoyalSweetness
RichH55 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2024 9:14 pm
At a certain point when it's like Center number 5 or 6 - it's tough to keep putting it on the Center.
Whats that joke/line?
"If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole." -Raylan Givens, Justified
Did you even watch the video? Did you actually watch the Bears games the last few seasons?
Some fumbled snaps are on the QB, but when they're flying high, low and/or wide that's not the QB's fault and don't necessarily result in fumbles because the QB manages to still grab the ball.
Whitehair didn't last more than one game at center last year because his snaps were all over the place. Patrick wasn't brilliant either. From the video posted, the Pittsburgh center also isn't making life easy for Fields.
Shelton for all his faults has been much more consistent snapping the ball in Chicago this season. I've only noticed a couple of wayward ones. One was actually on Williams' very first TD throw, which was wide to his right but his reflexes were up to the task and he still caught it and got the pass out on time.
RichH55 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2024 9:14 pm
At a certain point when it's like Center number 5 or 6 - it's tough to keep putting it on the Center.
Whats that joke/line?
"If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole." -Raylan Givens, Justified
Did you even watch the video? Did you actually watch the Bears games the last few seasons?
Some fumbled snaps are on the QB, but when they're flying high, low and/or wide that's not the QB's fault and don't necessarily result in fumbles because the QB manages to still grab the ball.
Whitehair didn't last more than one game at center last year because his snaps were all over the place. Patrick wasn't brilliant either. From the video posted, the Pittsburgh center also isn't making life easy for Fields.
Shelton for all his faults has been much more consistent snapping the ball in Chicago this season. I've only noticed a couple of wayward ones. One was actually on Williams' very first TD throw, which was wide to his right but his reflexes were up to the task and he still caught it and got the pass out on time.
They can have Davis for the price of his remaining contract and a Ham Sandwhich.
Re: FBR: Fields struggling in shorts
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2024 11:26 am
by Grizzled
Saw a lot if the Sunday night game against Dallas. He isn't being out into situations in which he'll lose the game. Only passed for 135 yards, no turnovers, had them in it until Dallas pulled it out at the end. I think Pitt has found their QB and will add to his responsibilities over time.
Re: FBR: Fields struggling in shorts
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2024 11:44 am
by HisRoyalSweetness
A second 3 point loss in a row for the Steelers.
Fields had a reasonable but not prolific game statistically:
Fields starts slow, leaves questions to be answered. It took more than an hour after the scheduled kickoff for Sunday night’s game to start following a weather delay. Then it took more than a half of ugly football for Justin Fields to get going, but he responded. After missing a play to get checked out following a savage hit, Fields reentered and completed four consecutive passes, the last going for a 16-yard touchdown to Connor Heyward. Fields’ score to Heyward led to a 10-6 Steelers advantage and he connected with Pat Freiermuth on a 6-yard score with less than five minutes to go. Then Dak took over. For the most part, though, Pittsburgh’s offense couldn’t keep up with Dallas, getting outgained, 445-226, as it was stagnant despite playing against a beleaguered Cowboys defense. Pittsburgh was kept in the fight all evening thanks to a defense that bent but secured three takeaways to shut down Dallas scoring opportunities. Fields looked to be pressing amid his struggles, and after a second straight loss, one has to wonder what’s next at QB for the Steelers. Russell Wilson is getting healthier, and Fields’ winning touch has been washed away. If Mike Tomlin wants to light a fire, perhaps a change lies ahead.
5 games means Fields should be halfway to getting 51% of the snaps the Bears need to get that R4 pick. I'd be surprised if Tomlin doesn't stick with him. Let's hope Fields gets them a victory against the Raiders next Sunday. He should be motivated to stick it to Getsy. After that they've got back-to-back home games against the Jets and Giants, both of which should be very winnable.
My concern is the Steelers have their bye in Week 9, so if things don't go well for Fields and the team that would be the obvious time to change to Wilson. It would just be so Bears if that happened, just one game short of the halfway point.
Re: FBR: Fields struggling in shorts
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2024 11:54 am
by LacertineForest
HisRoyalSweetness wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 11:44 am
A second 3 point loss in a row for the Steelers.
Fields had a reasonable but not prolific game statistically:
Fields starts slow, leaves questions to be answered. It took more than an hour after the scheduled kickoff for Sunday night’s game to start following a weather delay. Then it took more than a half of ugly football for Justin Fields to get going, but he responded. After missing a play to get checked out following a savage hit, Fields reentered and completed four consecutive passes, the last going for a 16-yard touchdown to Connor Heyward. Fields’ score to Heyward led to a 10-6 Steelers advantage and he connected with Pat Freiermuth on a 6-yard score with less than five minutes to go. Then Dak took over. For the most part, though, Pittsburgh’s offense couldn’t keep up with Dallas, getting outgained, 445-226, as it was stagnant despite playing against a beleaguered Cowboys defense. Pittsburgh was kept in the fight all evening thanks to a defense that bent but secured three takeaways to shut down Dallas scoring opportunities. Fields looked to be pressing amid his struggles, and after a second straight loss, one has to wonder what’s next at QB for the Steelers. Russell Wilson is getting healthier, and Fields’ winning touch has been washed away. If Mike Tomlin wants to light a fire, perhaps a change lies ahead.
5 games means Fields should be halfway to getting 51% of the snaps the Bears need to get that R4 pick. I'd be surprised if Tomlin doesn't stick with him. Let's hope Fields gets them a victory against the Raiders next Sunday. He should be motivated to stick it to Getsy. After that they've got back-to-back home games against the Jets and Giants, both of which should be very winnable.
My concern is the Steelers have their bye in Week 9, so if things don't go well for Fields and the team that would be the obvious time to change to Wilson. It would just be so Bears if that happened, just one game short of the halfway point.
Thankfully, their three opponents before the bye are @ Raiders, vs Jets, and vs Giants - 3 pretty winnable games (they should be favored in each one). If they head into the bye at 6-2, it's going to be hard to pull him unless he gets injured or really steps on his dick (metaphorically, of course). I do think there's a short leash, but I don't have a lot of faith in Russ, either, should he get in.
Re: FBR: Fields struggling in shorts
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2024 1:36 pm
by dplank
It wasn't his best game but he did throw the go ahead TD late in the 4th only to watch his defense give up a sustained 70 yard TD drive to lose the game - sounds familiar to his only 2 losses down the stretch here last year. But he didn't impress me at all last night, he was much better last week. Still should be good enough to keep Russ on the bench I hope.
I have to admit after watching Caleb at 1pm then Justin at 9pm - I was left asking myself "WTF was I thinking?" Caleb's talent just leaps off the screen.
Re: FBR: Fields struggling in shorts
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2024 2:07 pm
by HisRoyalSweetness
dplank wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 1:36 pm
It wasn't his best game but he did throw the go ahead TD late in the 4th only to watch his defense give up a sustained 70 yard TD drive to lose the game - sounds familiar to his only 2 losses down the stretch here last year.
Poor old Justin can just never get those wins in the 4th quarter of close games whether it's with the ball in his hands or not.
Re: FBR: Fields struggling in shorts
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2024 4:29 pm
by Rakshir
I saw this on Hoge and Jahns today. In five starts Caleb Williams now has two 300yrd passing games. In contrast Justin Fields has two 300yrd games in his career. He looked better at times last night, but still was taking sacks and had his fumble but didn't lose the ball.
Not prolific yardage-wise, but an outstanding total TD to INT ratio.
He also has 5 fumbles, which puts him on course to break his season's worst of 16. 2 were lost. I believe most have been due to snap issues rather than him being careless with the ball in the pocket or when he's taken off running. I would expect that rate to fall over the course of the season, assuming Fields remains the starter.
Re: FBR: Fields struggling in shorts
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2024 11:38 pm
by RichH55
HisRoyalSweetness wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 8:25 pm
Fields numbers for the season are:
Not prolific yardage-wise, but an outstanding total TD to INT ratio.
He also has 5 fumbles, which puts him on course to break his season's worst of 16. 2 were lost. I believe most have been due to snap issues rather than him being careless with the ball in the pocket or when he's taken off running. I would expect that rate to fall over the course of the season, assuming Fields remains the starter.
He's always been quite Fumble prone though - that isn't new. Though betting on the worst fumble rate to fall somewhat? Solid bet!
And you don't need to preface it with "assuming he's the starter" - if he's on the bench it would be real, real hard for the Fumble numbers NOT to go down.
He's 0-2 when the Defense doesn't play like the 85 Bears in terms of Points Against
Re: FBR: Fields struggling in shorts
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2024 11:51 pm
by RichH55
dplank wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 1:36 pm
It wasn't his best game but he did throw the go ahead TD late in the 4th only to watch his defense give up a sustained 70 yard TD drive to lose the game - sounds familiar to his only 2 losses down the stretch here last year.
I always love when the Defense plays pretty darn well - especially in terms of Points Against - meanwhile the Offense puts up Subpar Points ESPECIALLY in the 1st half (3 Points in the 1st Half doesn't particularly HELP the Defense you know!)
And .....it's the Defenses fault. What Jerks. He gave you 3 points in the 1st Half alone! All you have to do is pitch a shutout or at least hold the Team to less points than the 85 Bears gave up Per Game and you win!
WINNING FOOTBALL ! So mad at that Pitt Defense!.
But yes shades of Fans saying it was the Defenses fault when Green Bay scored 17 total, Bears got a MIGHTY 6 Points in the First Half (DOUBLE WHAT THE MIGHTY STEELERS DID!) - And it was.....the Defenses fault we lost. Duh.
If a team is going to Score less points than league Average - It's at least better to score them early. Asking your Defense to be Perfect and then not helping them at all and letting the opposing team have all their options open - thats ALOT to ask.
But I mean Dallas was only without their Best Defensive Player by Far in Parsons - Without argubably one of their better Defensive players (Lawrence) then lost the backup to those guys at DE early - and their other really good Defensive player (Diggs) was questionable coming into the game (dinged up some)
Can't expect a team to put up League Average Points against that. Team is probably playing hard for Parsons memory like he's the Gipper!
Re: FBR: Fields struggling in shorts
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2024 12:38 pm
by Ditka’s dictaphone
To be fair, Fields has had to play with Dante Pettis and Claystool as his main receivers, compared to DJ Moore, Keenan Allen and Rome Odunze.
There’s a difference in talent
Re: FBR: Fields struggling in shorts
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2024 11:09 pm
by RichH55
Ditka’s dictaphone wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2024 12:38 pm
To be fair, Fields has had to play with Dante Pettis and Claystool as his main receivers, compared to DJ Moore, Keenan Allen and Rome Odunze.
There’s a difference in talent
Keenan hasn't played a ton so far
Did Fields ever get to play with Moore, Kmet and Mooney (who is good)? Asking for a friend - I mean if he did I bet he's way closer to 4000 yards than 2500 yards right?
Ditka’s dictaphone wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2024 12:38 pm
To be fair, Fields has had to play with Dante Pettis and Claystool as his main receivers, compared to DJ Moore, Keenan Allen and Rome Odunze.
There’s a difference in talent
Keenan hasn't played a ton so far
Did Fields ever get to play with Moore, Kmet and Mooney (who is good)? Asking for a friend - I mean if he did I bet he's way closer to 4000 yards than 2500 yards right?
Tell your friend Fields played with DJ Moore for about 12 games.
Mooney vs Keenan Allen? Mooney renowned for dropping several passes in the end zone?
Did Fields ever get to play with Moore, Kmet and Mooney (who is good)? Asking for a friend - I mean if he did I bet he's way closer to 4000 yards than 2500 yards right?
Tell your friend Fields played with DJ Moore for about 12 games.
Mooney vs Keenan Allen? Mooney renowned for dropping several passes in the end zone?
With Kirk Cousins and a first time OC, Mooney is on pace for personal record yardage and significantly more than 2022 & 2023 combined.
Keenan Allen isn't playing much and might as well not at all.
Re: FBR: Fields struggling in shorts
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 10:47 am
by Rusty Trombagent
I miss IE complaining that Darnell's legs were too skinny to play in the NFL. He's still one of my favorite Bears from the last decade and I'm glad to see him thriving in ATL. I have quietly wished that we were fielding DJ and Odunze on the outside with Darnell in the slot (preserving our 4th rounder for Keenan). I wouldn't be surprised though if he wanted a new beginning, lord knows most fans didnt appreciate him while he was here.
Re: FBR: Fields struggling in shorts
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 1:24 pm
by dplank
I don't understand why folks are tying in Fields / Mooney performance and acting like it's some revelation that he's doing good in Atlanta. His best season was with JF1 as his QB in 2021. His yardage is directly related to his targets.. What happened after 2021 wasn't a QB that couldn't throw the ball well enough, if you look at Fields yardage it increased in 2022 and 2023 from the 2021 season where, again, he was the QB throwing to Mooney during his best season. So if the QB didn't change, but the results changed dramatically, what happened? Pretty simple.
We change OC's + Mooney missed a bunch of games from injury + DJ Moore came to town. That combo is what changed his stats, not the QB - again the QB didn't change. What did change? Nagy went out and Getsy came in, and Mooney's targets plummeted from 140 to 61!!!! A lot due to scheme, a lot due to injury, and in the last year Mooney was hurt and DJ came in and commanded the lions share of targets. DJ got 136 targets and had 1,364 yards and his QB was, again, Fields.
We are seeing Mooney play well now and, no surprise, he's already at 40 targets just 5 weeks in to the season. Cousins threw the ball 58 times last week. Luke Getsy's offense threw the ball 17 times last week. Cousins is a really good at spreading the ball around. This is basic math folks, and trying to shoehorn this in to a dig on Fields is just non sensical - he was the QB when folks point to Mooney being good.