I Won’t Back Down

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The Marshall Plan
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So I’m just reading about the Bears today and I came across this article from Windy City Gridiron.

https://www.windycitygridiron.com/2024/ ... kyle-orton

I got to thinking. What is the one Bears subject that I would never change my mind about?

Admittedly there’s a few. Not because I’m stubborn or bull headed mind you, it’s just that I’m right a lot. Right @Bears Whiskey Nut ?

If I had to pick one thing (out of several mind you) and say I’m not backing down I think I’m going to say is that we win the Super Bowl if Parkey makes the double doink.

What’s yours?

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Mines also the double doink. That team should have won a Super Bowl and we should have been stuck with Mitch and Nagy for a decade because of it. Hopefully it worked out for the best with Caleb and Eberflus winning multiple titles.
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If George "Mugs" Halas Jr. hadn't died of a heart attack in 1979 leaving the team stewardship to the clueless McCaskey family, the Bears would have dominated the 80's, winning multiple Super Bowls instead of being a one year wonder.

https://www.sj-r.com/story/sports/2018/ ... 365934007/
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Otis Day
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If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, everyday would be like Christmas

IF Jim McMahon was so injury prone, the Bears would have won a couple of more SBs in the 80s. While not the best QB in the league, he was the best QB for the Bears at that time. He was a winner.
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Otis Day wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 3:48 pm If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, everyday would be like Christmas

IF Jim McMahon was so injury prone, the Bears would have won a couple of more SBs in the 80s. While not the best QB in the league, he was the best QB for the Bears at that time. He was a winner.
If he didn’t get cheap shotted by Green Bay we win at least 2 more. Like you he wasn’t a top QB but that team didn’t need that to win it all.
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Arkansasbear wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 4:24 pm
Otis Day wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 3:48 pm If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, everyday would be like Christmas

IF Jim McMahon was so injury prone, the Bears would have won a couple of more SBs in the 80s. While not the best QB in the league, he was the best QB for the Bears at that time. He was a winner.
If he didn’t get cheap shotted by Green Bay we win at least 2 more. Like you he wasn’t a top QB but that team didn’t need that to win it all.
It wasn't just McMahon, although we definitely needed a quality backup. Mikey fired the GM, Jerry Vainisi, the only guy left who knew anything about football and could deal with Ditka. He let Wilbur Marshall walk in free agency and the draft talent declined for the rest of the decade.
By the time mommy fired him the team was in shambles and a laughing stock.
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Heinz D.
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Love me some Tom Petty, @The Marshall Plan ...but I think Trubisky gets exposed in the NFCCG.

My steadfast belief--if Ditka hadn't botched the handling of the QB position, the Bears win two more Super Bowls.

And, HELL, maybe Ditka is STILL the coach... :D
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McMahon getting cheapshotted, definitely.

I'm a bit surprised, TMP, that you didn't mention anything about Bear victories if they had traded for the Sex Pistol when the Jags were wanting to get rid of him.
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dave99 wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 4:42 pm
Arkansasbear wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 4:24 pm

If he didn’t get cheap shotted by Green Bay we win at least 2 more. Like you he wasn’t a top QB but that team didn’t need that to win it all.
It wasn't just McMahon, although we definitely needed a quality backup. Mikey fired the GM, Jerry Vainisi, the only guy left who knew anything about football and could deal with Ditka. He let Wilbur Marshall walk in free agency and the draft talent declined for the rest of the decade.
By the time mommy fired him the team was in shambles and a laughing stock.
The problem is Ginny didn't fire him until he'd messed up yet another deal by announcing Dave McGinnis as the Bears new HC before McGinnins ever agreed to the deal and that was over 15 years after he'd become the CEO and defacto GM. Mikey left a legacy of pathetic incompetence including his refusal to spend on a backup for Mac capable of winning another SB. He didn't care if they won again. He claimed they couldn't afford to win again. He just wanted to ride the gravy train winning the one we did win for as long as he could. If there was an NFL HOF for losers Mikey would be among the very first inductees.
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dave99 wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 4:42 pm
Arkansasbear wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 4:24 pm If he didn’t get cheap shotted by Green Bay we win at least 2 more. Like you he wasn’t a top QB but that team didn’t need that to win it all.
It wasn't just McMahon, although we definitely needed a quality backup. Mikey fired the GM, Jerry Vainisi, the only guy left who knew anything about football and could deal with Ditka. He let Wilbur Marshall walk in free agency and the draft talent declined for the rest of the decade.
By the time mommy fired him the team was in shambles and a laughing stock.
I hated losing Marshall, however they did get two first round picks from Washington when they decided not to match their offer for Marshall. Those ended up being Wendell Davis and Trace Armstrong.

I always wonder what would have happened if the Bears hadn't selected McMahon one year before the famed 1983 QB class. The Bears got Jim Covert and Willie Gault in the first round that year but could have had Jim Kelly (although he might not have signed for them) or Dan Marino. Ultimately Jimmy Mac suited the crazy style of that 80s Bears team but what might they have accomplished with Marino under center?
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Heinz D. wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 4:50 pm Love me some Tom Petty, @The Marshall Plan ...but I think Trubisky gets exposed in the NFCCG.

My steadfast belief--if Ditka hadn't botched the handling of the QB position, the Bears win two more Super Bowls.

And, HELL, maybe Ditka is STILL the coach... :D
That NFCCG would've been against the Rams.

We beat the Rams earlier that same year. 15-6.

Then the SB would've been against New England. That would've been tough, but we had the defense to do it.

We played New England that year too. We lost 31-38 due to bad special teams where Patterson had a KR for a TD.

We could've won that Super Bowl.
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HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 10:09 pm
dave99 wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 4:42 pm

It wasn't just McMahon, although we definitely needed a quality backup. Mikey fired the GM, Jerry Vainisi, the only guy left who knew anything about football and could deal with Ditka. He let Wilbur Marshall walk in free agency and the draft talent declined for the rest of the decade.
By the time mommy fired him the team was in shambles and a laughing stock.
I hated losing Marshall, however they did get two first round picks from Washington when they decided not to match their offer for Marshall. Those ended up being Wendell Davis and Trace Armstrong.

I always wonder what would have happened if the Bears hadn't selected McMahon one year before the famed 1983 QB class. The Bears got Jim Covert and Willie Gault in the first round that year but could have had Jim Kelly (although he might not have signed for them) or Dan Marino. Ultimately Jimmy Mac suited the crazy style of that 80s Bears team but what might they have accomplished with Marino under center?
I always felt that McMahon had HOF instincts trapped in a body with mediocre talent. A hot rumor in 85 was that he audibled out of a lot of the plays that Hughes and Ditka sent in. He was second to none at reading and slicing defenses, but while he had Walter and a very good OL, he never had great receivers or an OC that understood that the 50's were over.
Again, horrible upper management did nothing to build on his strengths and shore up his weaknesses.
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HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 10:09 pm
dave99 wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 4:42 pm

It wasn't just McMahon, although we definitely needed a quality backup. Mikey fired the GM, Jerry Vainisi, the only guy left who knew anything about football and could deal with Ditka. He let Wilbur Marshall walk in free agency and the draft talent declined for the rest of the decade.
By the time mommy fired him the team was in shambles and a laughing stock.
I hated losing Marshall, however they did get two first round picks from Washington when they decided not to match their offer for Marshall. Those ended up being Wendell Davis and Trace Armstrong.

I always wonder what would have happened if the Bears hadn't selected McMahon one year before the famed 1983 QB class. The Bears got Jim Covert and Willie Gault in the first round that year but could have had Jim Kelly (although he might not have signed for them) or Dan Marino. Ultimately Jimmy Mac suited the crazy style of that 80s Bears team but what might they have accomplished with Marino under center?
If you go back and look at the history of the Bears and drafting QBs, it seems like they tend to miss out by drafting a year too soon or a year too late. It seems as if we have shaken that problem. We could have waded into the QB class last year and not have had a shot a CW, but we didn't. Looks like our choice to not do so is going to give us the best QB out of the '23-25 draft classes.
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Mine is also the double doink.

I also think the Bears win the Super Bowl if Cutler doesn't get hurt in the NFCC against the Packers.
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2024 3:29 am
Heinz D. wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 4:50 pm Love me some Tom Petty, @The Marshall Plan ...but I think Trubisky gets exposed in the NFCCG.

My steadfast belief--if Ditka hadn't botched the handling of the QB position, the Bears win two more Super Bowls.

And, HELL, maybe Ditka is STILL the coach... :D
That NFCCG would've been against the Rams.

We beat the Rams earlier that same year. 15-6.

Then the SB would've been against New England. That would've been tough, but we had the defense to do it.

We played New England that year too. We lost 31-38 due to bad special teams where Patterson had a KR for a TD.

We could've won that Super Bowl.
Would've not could've.
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So we have:
1. The double doink,
2. Mug's death, and
3. Injuries to Jimmy Mc.

I vote yes on all three.
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wab wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2024 12:04 pm Mine is also the double doink.

I also think the Bears win the Super Bowl if Cutler doesn't get hurt in the NFCC against the Packers.
Now, this I agree with...
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Arkansasbear wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2024 3:09 pm So we have:
1. The double doink,
2. Mug's death, and
3. Injuries to Jimmy Mc.

I vote yes on all three.
I forgot to list Culter being hurt. I'm on board with that one as well.

In fact, if I could pick one, it would be that one. More recent and maybe more important, it would put A-A- Ron in the the same group as Marino. All kinds of great stats and wins, but ZERO Super Bowls.
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We beat the Broncos if Marion Barber takes a knee. Does that count?
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dplank wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2024 4:55 pm We beat the Broncos if Marion Barber takes a knee. Does that count?
Huh? :?
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Arkansasbear wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2024 3:09 pm So we have:
1. The double doink,
2. Mug's death, and
3. Injuries to Jimmy Mc.

I vote yes on all three.
I will second this

there are so many more to choose from, so for my 1 contribution I will add 2010 to the list ... if the Bears had beaten the Packers in the regular season finale, thereby eliminating Green Bay from the playoffs, they had a Super Bowl run in them that season
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Regarding the 2018 team, I think Parkey would've cost that team dearly, either in that game or the NFCCG, or the SB. He was unreliable in season, and it wouldn't have solved itself over the course of the playoffs had he hit that kick. Trubisky too likely wouldn't have led the team beyond the next round, but who knows. He still had promise and confidence at the time.
dave99 wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 3:41 pm If George "Mugs" Halas Jr. hadn't died of a heart attack in 1979 leaving the team stewardship to the clueless McCaskey family, the Bears would have dominated the 80's, winning multiple Super Bowls instead of being a one year wonder.

https://www.sj-r.com/story/sports/2018/ ... 365934007/
Mugs dying essentially set the franchise back 30-35 years.
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Arkansasbear wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2024 3:08 pm
The Marshall Plan wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2024 3:29 am

That NFCCG would've been against the Rams.

We beat the Rams earlier that same year. 15-6.

Then the SB would've been against New England. That would've been tough, but we had the defense to do it.

We played New England that year too. We lost 31-38 due to bad special teams where Patterson had a KR for a TD.

We could've won that Super Bowl.
Would've not could've.
I really dont think we would have made it past the rams. Mitch only managed 4 field goals because Goff threw 4 Int's. As much as I'd like to fantasize about him winning a superbowl for us, I agree with the sentiment that he would have been exposed at some point.
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I thought we had to go play the Saints next, in New Orleans, had we won the Eagles game. No?
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dplank wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2024 8:25 am I thought we had to go play the Saints next, in New Orleans, had we won the Eagles game. No?
NO would have got the lower seeded Cowboys, #4. Bears were a #3 seed and would have played LA.
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Rusty Trombagent wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2024 8:09 am
Arkansasbear wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2024 3:08 pm

Would've not could've.
I really dont think we would have made it past the rams. Mitch only managed 4 field goals because Goff threw 4 Int's. As much as I'd like to fantasize about him winning a superbowl for us, I agree with the sentiment that he would have been exposed at some point.
Not to be picky, but Goff didn't throw 4 picks, the Bears' defense forced 4 picks.

I don't think we win the Super Bowl because of Trubisky, it's most likely we win in spite of him. But he was at least playing with confidence then.
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Arkansasbear wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2024 10:05 am
Rusty Trombagent wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2024 8:09 am

I really dont think we would have made it past the rams. Mitch only managed 4 field goals because Goff threw 4 Int's. As much as I'd like to fantasize about him winning a superbowl for us, I agree with the sentiment that he would have been exposed at some point.
Not to be picky, but Goff didn't throw 4 picks, the Bears' defense forced 4 picks.

I don't think we win the Super Bowl because of Trubisky, it's most likely we win in spite of him. But he was at least playing with confidence then.
Lol, it's true, he confidently had 110 yards, no td's and 3 interceptions that day. I guess by Bears standards, that's pretty good, so I dont fault you for thinking that that's acceptable.

Add into that that it was a frigid night game in Chicago, and that the Rams were the higher seed in the playoffs so it would have been in California, and I just have a hard time believing that the defense could have once again produced a miracle.
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Rusty Trombagent wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2024 8:09 am
Arkansasbear wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2024 3:08 pm

Would've not could've.
I really dont think we would have made it past the rams. Mitch only managed 4 field goals because Goff threw 4 Int's. As much as I'd like to fantasize about him winning a superbowl for us, I agree with the sentiment that he would have been exposed at some point.
Goff was terrified of that D and would have thrown more ints. At least one turnover returned for a TD.

They would have smashed that overrated bum of a QB, went on to win the Super Bowl and dragged Mitch and Nagys asses to second contracts.
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Heinz D. wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2024 7:16 pm
dplank wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2024 4:55 pm We beat the Broncos if Marion Barber takes a knee. Does that count?
Huh? :?
Do you not remember the game in Denver when they got "Tebow'd"?

If I recall correctly, the Bears were 10 - 7 up and at midfield at the 2 minute warning with the Broncos out of time outs. Barber then proceeded to run out of bounds on the next play instead of falling down inbounds to keep the clock running. They ran him again on 3rd down, failed to convert and punted with about a minute left instead of 20 seconds. Tebow then led the Broncos into really long FG range and, being Mile High Stadium, the kicker nailed it to tie the game and take it to overtime.

In overtime the Bears won the toss and drove into Denver territory. Again being Mile High they were already in range for a long FG but they obviously wanted to improve their chances so on 3rd down they handed off to Barber who had a decent gain but promptly fumbled. Tebow then led the Broncos to the equivalent position on the Bears side of the field to where Barber fumbled and they kicked the winning FG.

A win would have kept the Bears right in the hunt for a wild card spot, tied with the Lions who went on to earn one.

Inexplicably they didn't cut Barber there and then. I believe he played his last NFL game the following week.
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HurricaneBear wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2024 10:54 am
Rusty Trombagent wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2024 8:09 am

I really dont think we would have made it past the rams. Mitch only managed 4 field goals because Goff threw 4 Int's. As much as I'd like to fantasize about him winning a superbowl for us, I agree with the sentiment that he would have been exposed at some point.
Goff was terrified of that D and would have thrown more ints. At least one turnover returned for a TD.

They would have smashed that overrated bum of a QB, went on to win the Super Bowl and dragged Mitch and Nagys asses to second contracts.
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