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Arkansasbear
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So I think everyone is onboard with the idea we need someone to help Sweat get after the QB.

The FA market doesn't look great Ngakoue is the only guy out that that maybe we should get excited about.

I don't like the idea of trading picks this time of year - is the pick going to be at the top, middle or end of the round; how is this team going to gel are we really in a playoff hunt???

So what does that leave us with? Trade a guy who may not make the roster to another team that has a guy they may be wanting to move on from.

The only "talent" we have that fits that description IMO is Borom. He has starting experience and is at least a depth piece. Nothing fancy, but we aren't going to be able to trade for anything fancy.

So what about a trade with the Giants for Azeez Ojulari? His draft pedigree is better than Borom - he went in the second round the same year Borom went in the 5th. He's fallen off since his rookie year and has injury concerns. Plus the Giants traded for Burns and drafted Thibodeaux the following year and looks like a front line starter.

The Giants OL is at best a hot mess (I think the best ranking I found for them was 28th). The Giants need to win and they need to protect their QB.

Just an idea during this dull time.
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My preference is to find a permanent solution and not another band aid.

I would be totally fine trading Jaylon Johnson for a comparable pass rusher of a similar salary. Same thing with Edmunds.

The defensive scheme we run dictates that the DL is more important and that's where we should spend the money.
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A big trade right before camp seems very unlikely. I think we just have to go with the best FA DE we can get and roll with it this season and hope Dex, Zachh, and Booker rise to the occasion
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Arkansasbear wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 4:11 pm So I think everyone is onboard with the idea we need someone to help Sweat get after the QB.

The FA market doesn't look great Ngakoue is the only guy out that that maybe we should get excited about.

I don't like the idea of trading picks this time of year - is the pick going to be at the top, middle or end of the round; how is this team going to gel are we really in a playoff hunt???

So what does that leave us with? Trade a guy who may not make the roster to another team that has a guy they may be wanting to move on from.

The only "talent" we have that fits that description IMO is Borom. He has starting experience and is at least a depth piece. Nothing fancy, but we aren't going to be able to trade for anything fancy.

So what about a trade with the Giants for Azeez Ojulari? His draft pedigree is better than Borom - he went in the second round the same year Borom went in the 5th. He's fallen off since his rookie year and has injury concerns. Plus the Giants traded for Burns and drafted Thibodeaux the following year and looks like a front line starter.

The Giants OL is at best a hot mess (I think the best ranking I found for them was 28th). The Giants need to win and they need to protect their QB.

Just an idea during this dull time.
I love the trade idea

I do think Ogbah is a solid guy out there on FA

Finally - I think trading picks could be fine - Especially because that is a talent thing that could be there - Guy unhappy with contract or they need to resign (Team thought they would get it done, but it still isn't done in Camp and now maybe looking at him Walk after the year?)

I can work with that scenario
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Ngakue just posted "I'm back," with a video of himself working out. Makes me think he could not pass a physical until now, so I sense his signing soon.
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dplank wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 5:13 pm A big trade right before camp seems very unlikely. I think we just have to go with the best FA DE we can get and roll with it this season and hope Dex, Zachh, and Booker rise to the occasion
Yeah, this isn't the season.

But you do often see a couple right around preseason game 2-4, right about the time teams start thinking "Yeah, we could lose this guy and be fine. But could we get something out of it?" or "OK, getting by on what we have is going to be really ugly. We need something more."
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Z Bear wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 5:50 pm Ngakue just posted "I'm back," with a video of himself working out. Makes me think he could not pass a physical until now, so I sense his signing soon.
Perfect. Get him cheap--see if he and Booker are up to the task.

Okay...maybe not "perfect", as you all know who I wanted us to draft...but I think you get my drift...
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Arkansasbear wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 4:11 pm So what does that leave us with? Trade a guy who may not make the roster to another team that has a guy they may be wanting to move on from.

The only "talent" we have that fits that description IMO is Borom. He has starting experience and is at least a depth piece. Nothing fancy, but we aren't going to be able to trade for anything fancy.
The problem is Borom will cost another team $3.1m and they've seen him play.
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My guess is they probably want to see what Austin Booker does in camp. If he flashes you can make him a pass rush specialist. If he doesn't then you can try to lure Yannick Ngakoue for hopefully less than $4-6M.
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Wow.....we have some real worry warts here.

Borom is likely to get released so no one will be all that interested in trading for him. If Pace and Flus feel we need guaranteed help with results from a RDE why trade one of our bottom line OL for someone else's bottom line DL? How does that assure us of getting anyone even as good as who we have now? Kahlil Herbert would have better trade value but I'm not sure I see another team trading a productive edge rusher for a RB. The value of the positions don't equate.

My guess is they want to see what they have at RDE once camp starts. There are maybe four or five FA possibilities out there all of whom are still on the street more than likely because of their age or their asking price. Poles isn't gonna pay $10 mil for another year like Ngakoue had. Not for him or anyone else. If Pace signs someone it will be at his price and hopefully someone more effective than Ngakoue was last season. Or he trades another future pick for a guy.
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I’d rather overpay a guy for 1 year than burn a draft pick on a trade.
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dplank wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 10:01 pm I’d rather overpay a guy for 1 year than burn a draft pick on a trade.
You mean if you could get another Montez Sweat for a 2nd round pick you'd pass? Why?

I realize it would save you money in the short haul but you wouldn't have an NFL ready edge rusher now or maybe never if the guy fails. At the very least he's be 2-3 years out from being at the level Sweat is at now. If you felt that one more player might be the difference between the playoffs and not you wouldn't make the trade?
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Bearfacts wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 10:24 pm
dplank wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 10:01 pm I’d rather overpay a guy for 1 year than burn a draft pick on a trade.
You mean if you could get another Montez Sweat for a 2nd round pick you'd pass? Why?

I realize it would save you money in the short haul but you wouldn't have an NFL ready edge rusher now or maybe never if the guy fails. At the very least he's be 2-3 years out from being at the level Sweat is at now. If you felt that one more player might be the difference between the playoffs and not you wouldn't make the trade?
I was commenting to the thought that we move a late round pick for some lesser DE, and in that scenario I'd rather keep the pick. Also, given the apparent talent rich DE group coming out next year, Poles is very likely to want to draft one of those vs having 2 DE's paid top FA dollar. He's still gotta get DJ done, paying two DE's 20M each just isn't going to work I don't think. If it happened and we got a top shelf guy, I'd definitely be stoked about it tho.
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Bearfacts wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 10:24 pm
dplank wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 10:01 pm I’d rather overpay a guy for 1 year than burn a draft pick on a trade.
You mean if you could get another Montez Sweat for a 2nd round pick you'd pass? Why?

I realize it would save you money in the short haul but you wouldn't have an NFL ready edge rusher now or maybe never if the guy fails. At the very least he's be 2-3 years out from being at the level Sweat is at now. If you felt that one more player might be the difference between the playoffs and not you wouldn't make the trade?
I don’t know who the comp to Sweat would be but I think the team would hard pressed to trade for a guy and then throw another truckload of money at him.
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dplank wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 10:45 am Hughes is off the board...

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/405 ... nfl-season

Bummer

Although, possibly more important is how much he took.
A low number will make it easier to work with the remaining options, a high number will make it worse.
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Arkansasbear wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 11:59 am
Bearfacts wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 10:24 pm

You mean if you could get another Montez Sweat for a 2nd round pick you'd pass? Why?

I realize it would save you money in the short haul but you wouldn't have an NFL ready edge rusher now or maybe never if the guy fails. At the very least he's be 2-3 years out from being at the level Sweat is at now. If you felt that one more player might be the difference between the playoffs and not you wouldn't make the trade?
I don’t know who the comp to Sweat would be but I think the team would hard pressed to trade for a guy and then throw another truckload of money at him.
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If the Bears were to pay another DE, it's almost assuredly at the expense of extending someone else (Jenkins for example).
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dplank wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 10:27 pm
Bearfacts wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 10:24 pm

You mean if you could get another Montez Sweat for a 2nd round pick you'd pass? Why?

I realize it would save you money in the short haul but you wouldn't have an NFL ready edge rusher now or maybe never if the guy fails. At the very least he's be 2-3 years out from being at the level Sweat is at now. If you felt that one more player might be the difference between the playoffs and not you wouldn't make the trade?
I was commenting to the thought that we move a late round pick for some lesser DE, and in that scenario I'd rather keep the pick. Also, given the apparent talent rich DE group coming out next year, Poles is very likely to want to draft one of those vs having 2 DE's paid top FA dollar. He's still gotta get DJ done, paying two DE's 20M each just isn't going to work I don't think. If it happened and we got a top shelf guy, I'd definitely be stoked about it tho.
I won't deny that the smarter move would be to draft a rookie pass rusher next spring all I was dealing with is that wouldn't solve the problem so many foresee now. Conversely if Poles could get help for a late round pick I have no problem with that since those picks seldom end up making the final roster anyway. It's kind of a "I'll gladly pay you later for a pass rusher today" kinda thing.
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They're going to want to look at Booker first surely. If we're confident of still stopping the run, and there's not reason why we shouldn't be, then we'll be after someone to pin their ears back and have free rein to get after the QB. There are more guys that can do that than be a complete player, fingers crossed we find/develop one.
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wab wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 3:06 pm If the Bears were to pay another DE, it's almost assuredly at the expense of extending someone else (Jenkins for example).
I don't think Poles plans on extending Jenkins either way.

Putting aside the Jenkins resume - This is Poles purported core competency - at the easiest position to find on the OL - going into a year where you will have an extra 2nd and still have your 3rd
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Arkansasbear wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 11:59 am
Bearfacts wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 10:24 pm

You mean if you could get another Montez Sweat for a 2nd round pick you'd pass? Why?

I realize it would save you money in the short haul but you wouldn't have an NFL ready edge rusher now or maybe never if the guy fails. At the very least he's be 2-3 years out from being at the level Sweat is at now. If you felt that one more player might be the difference between the playoffs and not you wouldn't make the trade?
I don’t know who the comp to Sweat would be but I think the team would hard pressed to trade for a guy and then throw another truckload of money at him.
I agree and as I posted back to plank I believe the best approach is to draft a rookie pass rusher next spring. I was only addressing what might Poles do now if he believes the need for RDE is as severe as many fans do. Personally I believe he'll either sign Ngakoue again if he can pass a physical, the price is right, and he believes we can get more from him than last year. IMHO he kinda owes us.

If he did trade for someone I assume it would be for someone already under contract he could afford.
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RichH55 wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 4:33 pm
wab wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 3:06 pm If the Bears were to pay another DE, it's almost assuredly at the expense of extending someone else (Jenkins for example).
I don't think Poles plans on extending Jenkins either way.

Putting aside the Jenkins resume - This is Poles purported core competency - at the easiest position to find on the OL - going into a year where you will have an extra 2nd and still have your 3rd
And yet despite if being Poles' purported core competency he has yet to acquire, either via the draft or free agency, a single O-lineman who has thus far proved to be in Jenkins' class.

I want Poles to use his high picks next year to fill the remaining holes on the roster including DE, or to upgrade positions, not to fill new holes created by not re-signing high quality players. If Jenkins proves he can stay healthy and continues to excel then I will be very annoyed if Poles doesn't retain him. Jenkins and Sweat are the only proven high-end performers on the lines at present. Everyone else has either hit their ceiling or is a work-in-progress that we hope will develop to their level.
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HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 7:38 pm
RichH55 wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 4:33 pm

I don't think Poles plans on extending Jenkins either way.

Putting aside the Jenkins resume - This is Poles purported core competency - at the easiest position to find on the OL - going into a year where you will have an extra 2nd and still have your 3rd
And yet despite if being Poles' purported core competency he has yet to acquire, either via the draft or free agency, a single O-lineman who has thus far proved to be in Jenkins' class.

I want Poles to use his high picks next year to fill the remaining holes on the roster including DE, or to upgrade positions, not to fill new holes created by not re-signing high quality players. If Jenkins proves he can stay healthy and continues to excel then I will be very annoyed if Poles doesn't retain him. Jenkins and Sweat are the only proven high-end performers on the lines at present. Everyone else has either hit their ceiling or is a work-in-progress that we hope will develop to their level.
I'd put Wright and Jones right up there with Jenkins as a complete OL. Poles was also in Kansas City - and as that roster currently stands - Jenkins would be their 4th best Interior OL

Jenkins has more holes than people want to admit. They act like he's an All-Pro when he is not.
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Arkansasbear wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 11:59 am
Bearfacts wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 10:24 pm

You mean if you could get another Montez Sweat for a 2nd round pick you'd pass? Why?

I realize it would save you money in the short haul but you wouldn't have an NFL ready edge rusher now or maybe never if the guy fails. At the very least he's be 2-3 years out from being at the level Sweat is at now. If you felt that one more player might be the difference between the playoffs and not you wouldn't make the trade?
I don’t know who the comp to Sweat would be but I think the team would hard pressed to trade for a guy and then throw another truckload of money at him.
We can't realistically do another Sweat trade where it's a 2nd rounder for a player with a $20M cap hit. There's always a game to be played with the cap, but realistically I think the answer is no. What we'd have to do is trade a high salary player like JJ or Edmunds. I would be over the moon if we could get a comparable DE for we're paying JJ.

The frustrating thing about this issue for me is that I believe this team is extremely close to a deep playoff run and that I'm going to watch these games and be like, if we only had that second pass rusher....

If I could acquire a long term solution in the form of a young pass rusher on a rookie deal for a pick, or trade salary for salary, I would do it. I think this team is really close and that pass rusher is the last piece.
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Guess I should say this again.

I don't presuppose Poles would be looking for a DE anywhere near as costly as Sweat. He doesn't even have the cap room to take someone off someone else's hands for a day three pick like he did with Allen. Based on those who are so sure we absolutely need a top RDE my only question was whether or not Poles would or should spend a 2nd round pick on one. But I also stated that it would need to be a player at an affordable level probably still on a rookie deal much like he did when he traded for Claypool.

Do I believe that's what he'll do vs bringing in a vet FA? No, I don't. I believe he'll do his best to get by with what we have evaluating those he's signed or drafted and making plans for how to approach his roster needs next spring in FA and the draft. He's been fixing units step by step; the secondary, the LB core, WR, the OL, and the DL adding talent as he goes. Whatever he feels he can't draft he seems to look for in FA. This is not a SB roster yet. He'll work on creating more of one next year.

As for Jenkins. What he really needs to do is both stay healthy for 16-17 games and improve upon his pass blocking. He's already a stud level run blocker. I would prefer to see Poles extend him and not at the cost of having to ignore someone else. If it means that Keenan Allen may not be affordable then we need to let Allen sign elsewhere. Building an OL is pretty much a task that needs to be done via the draft and great coaching. Poles can't finish the job if he's always needing to redraft OG and OT every year with high picks.
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 3:17 am
Arkansasbear wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 11:59 am
I don’t know who the comp to Sweat would be but I think the team would hard pressed to trade for a guy and then throw another truckload of money at him.
We can't realistically do another Sweat trade where it's a 2nd rounder for a player with a $20M cap hit. There's always a game to be played with the cap, but realistically I think the answer is no. What we'd have to do is trade a high salary player like JJ or Edmunds. I would be over the moon if we could get a comparable DE for we're paying JJ.

The frustrating thing about this issue for me is that I believe this team is extremely close to a deep playoff run and that I'm going to watch these games and be like, if we only had that second pass rusher....

If I could acquire a long term solution in the form of a young pass rusher on a rookie deal for a pick, or trade salary for salary, I would do it. I think this team is really close and that pass rusher is the last piece.


We have to stop with the “trade JJ or Edmunds chatter”…this isn’t Madden and it shows a lack of awareness. We aren’t trading locker room leaders, in their prime, right after we signed them to a very large contracts.

Also, to assume we can’t afford another pass rushing DE is crazy. We have pleanty of cap space and there are a lot of adjustments we can make to current deals to make it work. We also have our starting QB on a rookie deal for 4 years.
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RichH55 wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 12:27 am
HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 7:38 pm And yet despite if being Poles' purported core competency he has yet to acquire, either via the draft or free agency, a single O-lineman who has thus far proved to be in Jenkins' class.

I want Poles to use his high picks next year to fill the remaining holes on the roster including DE, or to upgrade positions, not to fill new holes created by not re-signing high quality players. If Jenkins proves he can stay healthy and continues to excel then I will be very annoyed if Poles doesn't retain him. Jenkins and Sweat are the only proven high-end performers on the lines at present. Everyone else has either hit their ceiling or is a work-in-progress that we hope will develop to their level.
I'd put Wright and Jones right up there with Jenkins as a complete OL. Poles was also in Kansas City - and as that roster currently stands - Jenkins would be their 4th best Interior OL

Jenkins has more holes than people want to admit. They act like he's an All-Pro when he is not.
If you believe Wright and Jones are in Jenkins' class right now then you simply haven't watched enough film of any of those linemen.

As for KC, the idea that Trey Smith is better than Jenkins is laughable. They also stumped up a 5-year $80m contract for Thuney and that was 3 years ago. They're a team that realised the importance of the interior O-line and were willing to pay big for a top-end player.

Players of Jenkins' quality are not easy to find and if you have one then it's best to hold on to him if you can regardless of position (assuming they stay healthy and don't miss too many games).

The Bears DL is not as strong as any of us would like but the defense ranked 1st against the run and 5th for yards per rushing attempt last year and that was despite only having Sweat for half the season. It's the pass rush that needs an obvious upgrade. If Sweat plays a whole season then he'll provide that to a degree. In just 9 games he was third on team with 21 total pressures, just 1 behind both Jones and Walker, and led the team with 6 sacks. Dexter took a notable step forward after Sweat's arrival too and started to find his feet at the NFL level during the second half of the season. Despite playing only 40% of the defensive snaps he was fourth on the team with 17 pressures. If he continues to improve then the pass rush might not look as weak as it does at the moment. Dexter's transformed his physique in the offseason so he's definitely one to keep an eye on.

You can never have enough good pass rushers and I would be much happier spending high draft picks next year on a reportedly deep group than having to spend one on an OG.
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Not to turn this into a thread about Jenkins or the OL, but I think Trey Smith is better than Jenkins is right now.
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wab wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 9:12 am Not to turn this into a thread about Jenkins or the OL, but I think Trey Smith is better than Jenkins is right now.
I think Jenkins is much more dominate in the run blocking game (maybe I shouldn't use "much" but he's at least better IMO), Smith gets the edge in pass blocking. So there skill set is close to a wash. But given the NFL is a passing league, one can argue Smith should be the higher rated player based on skill.

However, when you factor in Jenkins injury history, it gives a clear edge to Smith. I'm hopeful Jenkins has some improvement in pass blocking and doesn't miss any games. If that happens, think the scales tip in his favor.
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