Keep On Cringing About Center

[G08]

As of today, PFF's highest rated C prospect in the draft is at 146 (R5)

Kind of why I expect Shelton to be back.

Per PFF (I know, I know) he graded 20/64 centers overall. 19th in pass blocking and 24th in run blocking.

Anyone know how healthy Ricky Stromberg is?

[wab]

Kind of why I expect Shelton to be back.

So I'll just toss out before I make this comment that I know I've been bagging on Poles non-stop, and I'm about to do so again and that's probably annoying. But, I feel compelled to point out that GMs in all sports have yearly roster views for themselves, upcoming FA's from other teams, and as best as possible outlook for the upcoming draft (at least one year in advance, generally knowing strenghts and weaknesses). So Poles knew, or certainly should have known, that there would be slim pickings in FA this year and a draft largely devoid of C talent. He also moved on from Patrick and Whitehair, so 100% knew he needed to address the position last year as we didn't have one on the roster. And so I view this as another subtle failure by Poles, going after a 1 year low cost C like Shelton knowing full well that there would be very little available the following year - and passing on doing a multi year deal on a few of the FA C's that were higher quality, or working the draft in such a way that he got Frazier or another talent in house to develop.

Well I think you are leaving out that Bates was supposed to be the center but got hurt.

[wab]

Kind of why I expect Shelton to be back.

Per PFF (I know, I know) he graded 20/64 centers overall. 19th in pass blocking and 24th in run blocking.

Anyone know how healthy Ricky Stromberg is?

Eh, he had 7 different guards rotating in and out next to him.

Shelton is fine for now. He should get you through another 1-2 seasons.

Stromberg is supposedly healthy now and by all accounts will be with the Bears for the foreseeable future.

[G08]

Per PFF (I know, I know) he graded 20/64 centers overall. 19th in pass blocking and 24th in run blocking.

Anyone know how healthy Ricky Stromberg is?

Eh, he had 7 different guards rotating in and out next to him.

Shelton is fine for now. He should get you through another 1-2 seasons.

Stromberg is supposedly healthy now and by all accounts will be with the Bears for the foreseeable future.

I'm not hating on the guy, I thought he started off poorly but was playing decent football this year for us. Dude might be the top FA OC on the market too, which could suck

[dplank]

So I'll just toss out before I make this comment that I know I've been bagging on Poles non-stop, and I'm about to do so again and that's probably annoying. But, I feel compelled to point out that GMs in all sports have yearly roster views for themselves, upcoming FA's from other teams, and as best as possible outlook for the upcoming draft (at least one year in advance, generally knowing strenghts and weaknesses). So Poles knew, or certainly should have known, that there would be slim pickings in FA this year and a draft largely devoid of C talent. He also moved on from Patrick and Whitehair, so 100% knew he needed to address the position last year as we didn't have one on the roster. And so I view this as another subtle failure by Poles, going after a 1 year low cost C like Shelton knowing full well that there would be very little available the following year - and passing on doing a multi year deal on a few of the FA C's that were higher quality, or working the draft in such a way that he got Frazier or another talent in house to develop.

Well I think you are leaving out that Bates was supposed to be the center but got hurt.

Fair. I haven’t given up on Bates either, he should be back and if nothing else will have fresh legs lol

[RichH55]

Kind of why I expect Shelton to be back.

So I'll just toss out before I make this comment that I know I've been bagging on Poles non-stop, and I'm about to do so again and that's probably annoying. But, I feel compelled to point out that GMs in all sports have yearly roster views for themselves, upcoming FA's from other teams, and as best as possible outlook for the upcoming draft (at least one year in advance, generally knowing strenghts and weaknesses). So Poles knew, or certainly should have known, that there would be slim pickings in FA this year and a draft largely devoid of C talent. He also moved on from Patrick and Whitehair, so 100% knew he needed to address the position last year as we didn't have one on the roster. And so I view this as another subtle failure by Poles, going after a 1 year low cost C like Shelton knowing full well that there would be very little available the following year - and passing on doing a multi year deal on a few of the FA C's that were higher quality, or working the draft in such a way that he got Frazier or another talent in house to develop.

Well at least you are consistent on the bagging. No other GM 's teams have any flaws or holes. And certainly Poles took over a great situation! Especially on OL!

I'm trying to remember all these Higher Quality Centers that were on the FA market - especially for multiple years. Especially when Shelton grades out...ok at the least.

Teams never make mistakes on the draft itself - Let alone the potential depth of a class a full Year in advance!

Shelton at Center doesn't mean we are DOOMED!

[RichH55]

Kind of why I expect Shelton to be back.

Per PFF (I know, I know) he graded 20/64 centers overall. 19th in pass blocking and 24th in run blocking.

Anyone know how healthy Ricky Stromberg is?

But that doesn't let you call Poles a failure. Not sure its allowed

[RichH55]

It should also be noted that Zach Frazier went 51 - We picked 75. It wasn't like we just passed on him.

Otherwise you are talking No Caleb in the draft - and No Center is good enough to make Justin Fields good

[wab]

It should also be noted that Zach Frazier went 51 - We picked 75. It wasn't like we just passed on him.

Otherwise you are talking No Caleb in the draft - and No Center is good enough to make Justin Fields good

Well I think the presupposition was that they trade down from 9 and pass on Odunze.

[G08]

It should also be noted that Zach Frazier went 51 - We picked 75. It wasn't like we just passed on him.

Otherwise you are talking No Caleb in the draft - and No Center is good enough to make Justin Fields good

Well I think the presupposition was that they trade down from 9 and pass on Odunze.

(not speaking to you directly, @wab)

I can understand the short-term logic some utilized when bemoaning the "embarrassment of riches" we had at WR (DJ Moore, Keenan Allen).

But the chance to draft your franchise QB and WR1 in the same draft? Have both on rookie deals for 5 years?

Come on now... that has the potential to be special, and that's before you realize the kid is a hair under 6'3", a biscuit under 215 lbs, and runs a 4.45 dash with a 6.88 cone. I can't wait to see what he does next season

[thunderspirit]

Full disclosure: I loved Odunze and still think extremely highly of him, and am excited by what he can be next season. I wouldn't have traded out of #9 with him on the board either and don't regret the Bears drafting him for a second.

I think that was Poles' perspective too: this guy, like the QB they drafted at #1, is worth that pick.

[G08]

Full disclosure: I loved Odunze and still think extremely highly of him, and am excited by what he can be next season. I wouldn't have traded out of #9 with him on the board either and don't regret the Bears drafting him for a second.

I think that was Poles' perspective too: this guy, like the QB they drafted at #1, is worth that pick.

Odunze was the #2 player on his board.

[RichH55]

It should also be noted that Zach Frazier went 51 - We picked 75. It wasn't like we just passed on him.

Otherwise you are talking No Caleb in the draft - and No Center is good enough to make Justin Fields good

Well I think the presupposition was that they trade down from 9 and pass on Odunze.

Also a possibility - but there are a bunch of what if we kept Fields posts that wind up with Frazier - SO its a possibility as well.

Or I guess with the year in advance stuff - maybe no Sweat trade too?

The problem is that the team needed ALOT when Poles got here and Alot at Premium positions.

I was banging the drum for Creed Humphrey! I had it solved....ha

But I mean there is plenty to give Poles ACTUAL crap on (Has anyone given him more crap about Compensatory picks then me?). But we don't kind of need to invent stuff either.

[thunderspirit]

Full disclosure: I loved Odunze and still think extremely highly of him, and am excited by what he can be next season. I wouldn't have traded out of #9 with him on the board either and don't regret the Bears drafting him for a second.

I think that was Poles' perspective too: this guy, like the QB they drafted at #1, is worth that pick.

Odunze was the #2 player on his board.

I believe that.

I tend to go with tiers myself; but strictly on grades, he was #3 on mine behind Caleb and Joe Alt.

[G08]

Odunze was the #2 player on his board.

I believe that.

I tend to go with tiers myself; but strictly on grades, he was #3 on mine behind Caleb and Joe Alt.

If you want to share your rankings for last year (and this year if they're done!) I'd love to see them

[RichH55]

I believe that.

I tend to go with tiers myself; but strictly on grades, he was #3 on mine behind Caleb and Joe Alt.

If you want to share your rankings for last year (and this year if they're done!) I'd love to see them

Ditto

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

It should also be noted that Zach Frazier went 51 - We picked 75. It wasn't like we just passed on him.

Otherwise you are talking No Caleb in the draft - and No Center is good enough to make Justin Fields good

Is trading up not allowed anymore?

Knowing about the lack of draft prospects this year you’d think a GM would consider that.

[dplank]

It should also be noted that Zach Frazier went 51 - We picked 75. It wasn't like we just passed on him.

Otherwise you are talking No Caleb in the draft - and No Center is good enough to make Justin Fields good

Is trading up not allowed anymore?

Knowing about the lack of draft prospects this year you’d think a GM would consider that.

That was the point, the GM needs to be aware of whats on the horizon. That's literally his job. Pay no attention to Rich's lies, he literally just made up a whole bunch of stuff I never suggested in that post just to mock me for it, for reasons. I'm trying to be better myself, but it doesn't make it easy when he behaves this way. I caught several blatant lies and distortions in this thread alone:

1. "No other GM 's teams have any flaws or holes. " I never even hinted at such a thing, blatant lie here.
2. "And certainly Poles took over a great situation! Especially on OL!" I never once said any different here either, have said several times he inherited a shit situation and we were all counting on him fixing it. My beef is he hasn't done that in 3 years. Blatant lie #2.
3. "Teams never make mistakes on the draft itself - Let alone the potential depth of a class a full Year in advance!" I never said this either, never even hinted at it. Simply pointed out an obvious truth that part of a GMs job is having some sense of strengths and weaknesses a year in advance, this is basic GM 101 stuff. Never suggested it was perfect or that other teams never make mistakes, just no idea where that comes from
4. "Shelton at Center doesn't mean we are DOOMED!" - Clear distortion here, and a weird carry over from another thread comment. What I said in a different thread was that if Poles doesn't learn from his mistakes we are doomed. I never said anything about Shelton there, so this is just another total lie.
5. "Otherwise you are talking No Caleb in the draft - and No Center is good enough to make Justin Fields good" - Distortion alert here. Never said anything about Caleb and there are many ways to, as I suggested, manipulate the draft to get a C. We could have traded down from 9. We could have traded up. Were there no centers available at 75? etc etc.

I just don't understand the compulsion to put words in someone else's mouth, to then turn around and trash them for something they never said or meant. This is how the board devolves into bickering. For everyone who hates seeing the board devolve in this way, please stand up to this type of behavior when you see it! There's no place for it IMO.

Moving back to my happy place and not engaging this type of garbage again. Folks just need to grow up and put their personal issues aside, it's just weird at this point.

[karhu]

It should also be noted that Zach Frazier went 51 - We picked 75. It wasn't like we just passed on him.

Otherwise you are talking No Caleb in the draft - and No Center is good enough to make Justin Fields good

Is trading up not allowed anymore?

Knowing about the lack of draft prospects this year you’d think a GM would consider that.

We didn't have nearly enough draft capital left to trade up that far. The rest of our draft plus 2025's third-rounder might've done it...if we'd found a trading partner. But for a flyer on a center?

[RichH55]

Is trading up not allowed anymore?

Knowing about the lack of draft prospects this year you’d think a GM would consider that.

That was the point, the GM needs to be aware of whats on the horizon. That's literally his job. Pay no attention to Rich's lies, he literally just made up a whole bunch of stuff I never suggested in that post just to mock me for it, for reasons. I'm trying to be better myself, but it doesn't make it easy when he behaves this way. I caught several blatant lies and distortions in this thread alone:

1. "No other GM 's teams have any flaws or holes. " I never even hinted at such a thing, blatant lie here.
2. "And certainly Poles took over a great situation! Especially on OL!" I never once said any different here either, have said several times he inherited a shit situation and we were all counting on him fixing it. My beef is he hasn't done that in 3 years. Blatant lie #2.
3. "Teams never make mistakes on the draft itself - Let alone the potential depth of a class a full Year in advance!" I never said this either, never even hinted at it. Simply pointed out an obvious truth that part of a GMs job is having some sense of strengths and weaknesses a year in advance, this is basic GM 101 stuff. Never suggested it was perfect or that other teams never make mistakes, just no idea where that comes from
4. "Shelton at Center doesn't mean we are DOOMED!" - Clear distortion here, and a weird carry over from another thread comment. What I said in a different thread was that if Poles doesn't learn from his mistakes we are doomed. I never said anything about Shelton there, so this is just another total lie.
5. "Otherwise you are talking No Caleb in the draft - and No Center is good enough to make Justin Fields good" - Distortion alert here. Never said anything about Caleb and there are many ways to, as I suggested, manipulate the draft to get a C. We could have traded down from 9. We could have traded up. Were there no centers available at 75? etc etc.

I just don't understand the compulsion to put words in someone else's mouth, to then turn around and trash them for something they never said or meant. This is how the board devolves into bickering. For everyone who hates seeing the board devolve in this way, please stand up to this type of behavior when you see it! There's no place for it IMO.

Moving back to my happy place and not engaging this type of garbage again. Folks just need to grow up and put their personal issues aside, it's just weird at this point.

DO you actually know what the word "lies" mean? It feels like you don't

Just pushing back on bad takes is NOT personal. I get that its hard for you to defend poorly thought out posts so just claiming its personal is easier. But easier is not the same as correct.

You just don't give any context to the situation mainly. Mainly just pointing out the blatant blind spots and double standards. If we had traded Rome's pick and gotten Frazier - you'd be noting "Keenan Allen is going to be 33 next year and he's a UFA anyway - You have GOT to get Caleb some weapons....DJ alone isn't enough!!!" (*) (**)

(*) Yes I remember basically getting yelled at for this when you wanted to trade our 1st for DK Metcalf and pay him all of the money

(**) BTW, you'd have a point! Which is also why I bring up what Poles inherited - We aren't even giving him this offseason (where he has amassed a nice war chest of Draft picks and Cap Space). So you basically have 3 years.

You inherit no 1st Round pick. And Justin Fields being bad really hurts you (it's a different analysis if Fields is good)
You need:
Franchise QB
#1 WR (And # 3). ALL 3 if you aren't high on Mooney
LT
LG
C
RG (Sadly Teven did not fully pan out)
RT
#1 DE
#2 DE
Both DT
1 LB (You had Roquon though he'd be making 20 million a year) at least
2 Corners
2 Safeties.

More if you want depth. Even more if we use the Dplank standards (Bears GM only) where if Jake Curhan has to play even though he was a Practice Squad guy and is only playing because you needed your like 10th man on the depth chart to play - You get dinged for the 10th OL not being too good.

Now is getting a 2nd off the ball LB or a reasonably good Safety the hardest thing in the world? WELL no.

But you got to get all the other stuff too. Almost ALL the premium positions. All of them except CB 1(*) (Kmet is a very good TE for me, TE isn't a premium position though)

(*) I'd even note that JJ wasnt JJ! when Poles took over - so as a GM you'd have needed to take that into the evaluation as well (His play got better, questions about his shoulders got better, and he apparently is dealing with his sex addiction.....this is one of the best pieces you inherited by far nonetheless)

Poles isn't pitching a Shut Out mind you (Nate Davis ad nauseum, Claypool trade, and some picks haven't worked out - looking at you Velus and not so slim Pickens - And certainly not saying there isn't work to be done (THERE IS WORK TO BE DONE!)

But to the degree he has filled the cupboard in that time frame from what it was - with what he had at his disposal - AND to be in fantastic shape Cap Wise and with an extra 2nd - It's just odd that this is overlooked because Guard play isn't where it should be yet.

Like even the LB group - one of the things where Poles inherited a very good player (Also don't draft off the ball LBs Top Ten please) -We are better off then what he took over - and he got an extra 2nd out of it and some cap savings overall (Insert that the extra 2nd basically paid off the Claypool mistake! FAIR ENOUGH!)

But he had to create excess value on what he had AND have a high hit rate just to get us to this point. And those trades ALL took balls. People act like Anyone could have pulled off the Panthers Heist....like that happens all the time in the NFL. It does not.
1) Panthers trade - Grand Slam - maybe higher? I mean its so good that even if you took the next best alternative - literally drafting a Franchise QB (Stroud) would have left you in a worse position overall by a decent bit
2) Roquon trade - Double/Triple? Roquon is a very good player (Pro Bowl this year was more a reputation nod than based on play...but lets call that even for when he should have made it while here and didn't)......But you added a 2nd Round pick and ultimately got a better LB group for less money overall. That's a nice piece of business
3) Sweat trade - Solid Double. This time last year I'd be calling it a HR. He's a top 20 DE in my book though at the least
4) Claypool trade- WHIFF!!!!! Golden Sombrero? It hurt. That's a good 2nd round pick. Didn't hurt much cap wise......but the 2nd absolutely hurt Basically takes all of your positive value from Roquon trade off the board.

When a team needs a QB and has the #1 pick especially in a Draft where the perceived top 2 guys in the draft are both QB......typically they are taking a QB.

And even if he took a QB then - and lets say he even got the right one (Stroud) - And lets say he resigned Roquon. You are looking at more holes overall. And less time on Rookie QB contract to do it too.





Gonna break these up a bit so its not crazy long in one post.

[RichH55]

Is trading up not allowed anymore?

Knowing about the lack of draft prospects this year you’d think a GM would consider that.

That was the point, the GM needs to be aware of whats on the horizon. That's literally his job. Pay no attention to Rich's lies, he literally just made up a whole bunch of stuff I never suggested in that post just to mock me for it, for reasons. I'm trying to be better myself, but it doesn't make it easy when he behaves this way. I caught several blatant lies and distortions in this thread alone:

1. "No other GM 's teams have any flaws or holes. " I never even hinted at such a thing, blatant lie here.
2. "And certainly Poles took over a great situation! Especially on OL!" I never once said any different here either, have said several times he inherited a shit situation and we were all counting on him fixing it. My beef is he hasn't done that in 3 years. Blatant lie #2.
3. "Teams never make mistakes on the draft itself - Let alone the potential depth of a class a full Year in advance!" I never said this either, never even hinted at it. Simply pointed out an obvious truth that part of a GMs job is having some sense of strengths and weaknesses a year in advance, this is basic GM 101 stuff. Never suggested it was perfect or that other teams never make mistakes, just no idea where that comes from
4. "Shelton at Center doesn't mean we are DOOMED!" - Clear distortion here, and a weird carry over from another thread comment. What I said in a different thread was that if Poles doesn't learn from his mistakes we are doomed. I never said anything about Shelton there, so this is just another total lie.
5. "Otherwise you are talking No Caleb in the draft - and No Center is good enough to make Justin Fields good" - Distortion alert here. Never said anything about Caleb and there are many ways to, as I suggested, manipulate the draft to get a C. We could have traded down from 9. We could have traded up. Were there no centers available at 75? etc etc.

I just don't understand the compulsion to put words in someone else's mouth, to then turn around and trash them for something they never said or meant. This is how the board devolves into bickering. For everyone who hates seeing the board devolve in this way, please stand up to this type of behavior when you see it! There's no place for it IMO.

Moving back to my happy place and not engaging this type of garbage again. Folks just need to grow up and put their personal issues aside, it's just weird at this point.

The Fields stuff you have literally posted within the last couple of weeks too BTW. Not made up, not a lie....and also one of the paths to getting Frazier...because again ...he went 51th and we didn't pick anywhere near there - The Frazier stuff is just real weird Hindsight is 20/20 stuff because you are looking back a year with perfect knowledge and STILL having to make big leaps ......it's not man we picked Player X at 49, wish we would have picked Player Y who went at 51, he was there for us! Nor is the "Doomed" part (don't have to post things like that)

The Draft stuff a year in advance is SUPER THIN gruel. Which is what I noted. Free Agency? Less so, but not some exact Science either - but at least you have contracts and the guys are established Pros.....24-25 at least. College? A year out? (And yes, every team DOES have those lists Bears included - though in Practice they aren't super helpful, especially at like Center). College you are talking 19-21 year olds? That range or so.....Guys who haven't started or maybe guys who started but were only ok?

Especially as to OL. I mean a corner who is 5'8 is 5'8, and if he runs a 4.6 he runs a 4.6. (Even at corner guys emerge ALL the time)....But OL? Another year of the Weight Room especially when you are that age? Another year of snaps? Heck, new coach comes in and it clicks. The year out thing just isn't going to be that helpful (***)

(***) Especially as I noted...NFL teams get this wrong ALL the time on guys they are drafting. With the extra year. With EXTENSIVE film review. With interviews. With things like the Senior Bowl. With their best guys doing the work (a lot of your Year out stuff is going to be done by the guys lower down the rung......Area scouts, etc.). Area scouts are going to contribute to the Draft year stuff, but they (and everyone else) is going to go more in depth. And have your cross checkers looking and the GM doing film review. The year out stuff is more guys to watch.....if they played a bunch, then a breakdown of that (of course with literally a year less of film). But a bunch of the time it could be as nebulous (as it MUST) that Player X is expected to take over for Player Y (Graduating Senior). Program is high on him (depending on how good the contacts are with the School), he was 4 Star Recruit, and you should have probably Height/Weight ....maybe a 40 time, maybe? Of course that information is subject to change within a year. A guy who was 21 at OL, can look at lot different at 22.

And we are picking what twice in the 40s and again in the 3rd Round? So it's not like the Center class has to go from zero to super deep......a couple of guys emerging would represent a material change from a year out (and yes we would have known we have multiple 2nds a year out)

[wulfy]

Back to the Center position ... not a great year this year, but I like Grey Zabal from South Dakota State in the 3rd(ish) round. Currently a LT, but projects to be a center (i.e. TRex Syndrome).

[thunderspirit]

Back to the Center position ... not a great year this year, but I like Grey Zabal from South Dakota State in the 3rd(ish) round. Currently a LT, but projects to be a center (i.e. TRex Syndrome).

There are several of those this year. Marcus Mbow (Purdue) is expected to be asked to play C at the Senior Bowl. Joshua Gray (Oregon St) probably the same at the Shrine Bowl.

[RichH55]

Back to the Center position ... not a great year this year, but I like Grey Zabal from South Dakota State in the 3rd(ish) round. Currently a LT, but projects to be a center (i.e. TRex Syndrome).

There are several of those this year. Marcus Mbow (Purdue) is expected to be asked to play C at the Senior Bowl. Joshua Gray (Oregon St) probably the same at the Shrine Bowl.

I do think the snapping obviously matters....and I think the transition to Center is MUCH harder than the transition to Guard -

BUT I think that if you have someone else who can make the Line Calls that helps the situation considerably.

I guess what I'm hinting at is Zeitler coming with Ben Johnson....

[thunderspirit]

Generally speaking, I'm not a big fan of the conversion projects. Most of the time they don't work.

• Mbow is athletic with great football character and probably is better off inside, but there's nothing in his past that suggests he'll succeed at C (he didn't play center in HS or in college).
• Gray has only played tackle at Oregon St, and has no experience inside either; he played only at tackle in HS as well. You have to hope his 55 starts gives him the football IQ to survive.
• Zabel has 38 college starts at both guard spots and both tackle spots, so he's already demonstrated versatility. No center experience here either, though.

Sometimes, though, you get a success story.

• Jonah Monheim was a three-year starter, with starts at RT, RG, and LT, before moving to center for a dozen starts this season. Being a three-time Pac-12 All-Academic probably helped.

I like Jake Majors (55 starts at center for Texas, three-time Academic All-Big 12), as I've said. Drew Kendall (36 starts at center for Boston College) too, especially as an NFL legacy player – he's the son of 10-year starter Pete Kendall. I kind of like Eli Cox too (47 starts at Kentucky, including 35 at center), though he's already 24 (dude graduated in May 2022). Maybe Gus Hartwig (47 starts at center for Purdue, three-time All Academic Big 10), though I'm not convinced he's got enough power; his lack of invitation to all-star games suggests there's truth to that. And maybe Jacob Bayer (45 starts at center over four seasons at Lamar (FCS) and Arkansas St (Sun Belt); also no all-star invites.

Other guys who are gambles I might consider on Day 3:

• Jared Wilson (Georgia) didn't start until this season; for a guy with his level of athletic ability, it raises some questions about why.
• Nick Dawkins (Penn St) is nother guy with good athletic ability (his dad is former NBAer Darryl Dawkins) who only managed to start this season.
• Garrett Dellinger (LSU) has experience at both guard and center, but has missed a lot of games for the Tigers; guys who are hurt in college tend to stay hurt in the pros.

[Moriarty]

Generally speaking, I'm not a big fan of the conversion projects. Most of the time they don't work.

• Mbow is athletic with great football character and probably is better off inside, but there's nothing in his past that suggests he'll succeed at C (he didn't play center in HS or in college).
• Gray has only played tackle at Oregon St, and has no experience inside either; he played only at tackle in HS as well. You have to hope his 55 starts gives him the football IQ to survive.
• Zabel has 38 college starts at both guard spots and both tackle spots, so he's already demonstrated versatility. No center experience here either, though.

Sometimes, though, you get a success story.

• Jonah Monheim was a three-year starter, with starts at RT, RG, and LT, before moving to center for a dozen starts this season. Being a three-time Pac-12 All-Academic probably helped.

I don't mind T -> G. In fact, I may even like college tackles at G better than I like college guards at G. But C is a whole different thing.
Even G->C is kinda iffy, if you want to change them at the pro level with no prior experience and you're looking for a true starter (as opposed to just emergency backup level skills).

Cody Whitehair, for example, was a great athlete, but never really learned to snap over 8 years in the NFL.

[thunderspirit]

Generally speaking, I'm not a big fan of the conversion projects. Most of the time they don't work.

• Mbow is athletic with great football character and probably is better off inside, but there's nothing in his past that suggests he'll succeed at C (he didn't play center in HS or in college).
• Gray has only played tackle at Oregon St, and has no experience inside either; he played only at tackle in HS as well. You have to hope his 55 starts gives him the football IQ to survive.
• Zabel has 38 college starts at both guard spots and both tackle spots, so he's already demonstrated versatility. No center experience here either, though.

Sometimes, though, you get a success story.

• Jonah Monheim was a three-year starter, with starts at RT, RG, and LT, before moving to center for a dozen starts this season. Being a three-time Pac-12 All-Academic probably helped.

I don't mind T -> G. In fact, I may even like college tackles at G better than I like college guards at G. But C is a whole different thing.
Even G->C is kinda iffy, if you want to change them at the pro level with no prior experience and you're looking for a true starter (as opposed to just emergency backup level skills).

Cody Whitehair, for example, was a great athlete, but never really learned to snap over 8 years in the NFL.

I should have been clear, I was specifically referencing conversions to center, though I didn't explicitly say that. I don't mind the T -> G conversions nearly as much. (I do still like them to know what to do at guard, mind you, so having some snaps there is definitely a plus.)

I agree that Whitehair is a good example of Not Working. To be fair, Graham Barton appears to be an example of the opposite. Monheim too. But those look like outliers to the general track record.

[RichH55]

I don't mind T -> G. In fact, I may even like college tackles at G better than I like college guards at G. But C is a whole different thing.
Even G->C is kinda iffy, if you want to change them at the pro level with no prior experience and you're looking for a true starter (as opposed to just emergency backup level skills).

Cody Whitehair, for example, was a great athlete, but never really learned to snap over 8 years in the NFL.

I should have been clear, I was specifically referencing conversions to center, though I didn't explicitly say that. I don't mind the T -> G conversions nearly as much. (I do still like them to know what to do at guard, mind you, so having some snaps there is definitely a plus.)

I agree that Whitehair is a good example of Not Working. To be fair, Graham Barton appears to be an example of the opposite. Monheim too. But those look like outliers to the general track record.

Also the Whitehair thing is extra weird....because arguably his Rookie year with the extreme conversion - Was one of his better years at the position.

[wab]

I should have been clear, I was specifically referencing conversions to center, though I didn't explicitly say that. I don't mind the T -> G conversions nearly as much. (I do still like them to know what to do at guard, mind you, so having some snaps there is definitely a plus.)

I agree that Whitehair is a good example of Not Working. To be fair, Graham Barton appears to be an example of the opposite. Monheim too. But those look like outliers to the general track record.

Also the Whitehair thing is extra weird....because arguably his Rookie year with the extreme conversion - Was one of his better years at the position.

Yeah, the reason he was kept there is because he looked so good as a rookie thrown to the wolves.

[malk]

If they're high ebough on Stromberg we probably don't bother even drafting one low right? They need a free agent, probably Shelton and he won't take another one year deal. So unless we're cutting Bates that's already 3 center options. Maybe someone low enough to stash on the practice squad...