So if the Defense is Top 10 but the Offense is Bottom 24...

[G08]

What happens to Waldron and what happens to Eberflus?

Thought didn't' really enter my mind until my buddy texted me that if the Bears don't win 8-9 games, he thinks Eberflus is going to get fired.

I'm not sure I agree with that (don't throw the baby out with the bathwater), but it did make me play through various scenarios. Once of which was suppose the offense just looks like pure, unadulterated shit heading into the bye week... what happens there? Do you fire Waldron and give the job to Thomas Brown?

Do you demote Waldron to passing game coordinator and promote Thomas Brown?

Do you keep titles the same but remove playcalling duties from Waldron?


I fucking hate that it's not even week 3 and I'm thinking like this, but you know... Bears gonna Bears.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

Can Waldron block?

If not, he’s fired.

Set the Flus loose

[LacertineForest]

What happens to Waldron and what happens to Eberflus?

Thought didn't' really enter my mind until my buddy texted me that if the Bears don't win 8-9 games, he thinks Eberflus is going to get fired.

I'm not sure I agree with that (don't throw the baby out with the bathwater), but it did make me play through various scenarios. Once of which was suppose the offense just looks like pure, unadulterated shit heading into the bye week... what happens there? Do you fire Waldron and give the job to Thomas Brown?

Do you demote Waldron to passing game coordinator and promote Thomas Brown?

Do you keep titles the same but remove playcalling duties from Waldron?


I fucking hate that it's not even week 3 and I'm thinking like this, but you know... Bears gonna Bears.

I don't see Flus getting fired unless they win like 4 games or he loses the team. I just saw a stat that reminded me that the Bears haven't allowed any team to score more than 20 for the last 8 games.

For better or worse, we're probably stuck with him and Waldron for at least this season (and likely one more). If the offense is truly disastrous but the defense carries them to 8 wins or so, I could see Waldron getting the axe, but Flus will definitely be on the hot seat and given his track record at picking OC's, I can't imagine that going well. Plus, having Caleb learn a different offense in just his second year would be pretty bad.

[wab]

The Bears are 1-1 going into week 3 dude.

Everyone needs to just take a beat.

[Moriarty]

So if the Defense is Top 10 but the Offense is Bottom 24...

What happens to Waldron and what happens to Eberflus?

Thought didn't' really enter my mind until my buddy texted me that if the Bears don't win 8-9 games, he thinks Eberflus is going to get fired.

The Bears' schedule is so weak it will be hard not to win 8 with a great defense.

And the Bears have almost ALWAYS been satisfied with half a loaf.

They stuck with Pace too long, in spite of bad personnel decisions, because he was great at administrative management (including "he's built a great culture" and "he managed a really challenging COVID season so well").
They stuck and stuck and stuck with Lovie long after it was clear that he was a great DC with zero HC skills.


Unless Poles/Warren are smarter and forceful about it, they'll stay content with a team with 1 good side of the ball and coming back from 3-14 to .500 for years.
(And neither Poles or Warren are doing that great or on that strong of ground if the offense sucks this year and Warren continues futile Lakeshore pursuits.)

[G08]

The Bears are 1-1 going into week 3 dude.

Everyone needs to just take a beat.

I mean obviously dude, I'm not saying it's time to panic.

Just batting around the "what ifs" in my mind, do the exercise with me

[G08]

So if the Defense is Top 10 but the Offense is Bottom 24...

What happens to Waldron and what happens to Eberflus?

Thought didn't' really enter my mind until my buddy texted me that if the Bears don't win 8-9 games, he thinks Eberflus is going to get fired.

The Bears' schedule is so weak it will be hard not to win 8 with a great defense.

And the Bears have almost ALWAYS been satisfied with half a loaf.

They stuck with Pace too long, in spite of bad personnel decisions, because he was great at administrative management (including "he's built a great culture" and "he managed a really challenging COVID season so well").
They stuck and stuck and stuck with Lovie long after it was clear that he was a great DC with zero HC skills.


Unless Poles/Warren are smarter and forceful about it, they'll stay content with a team with 1 good side of the ball and coming back from 3-14 to .500 for years.
(And neither Poles or Warren are doing that great or on that strong of ground if the offense sucks this year and Warren continues futile Lakeshore pursuits.)

I hated Lovie with a passion by the time his tenure was over in Chicago. His ego and arrogance to fire Ron Rivera and replace him with his crony (Bob Babich) slammed our Super Bowl window shut, and for what?

The other issue with him is that no OC worth his shit would want to come here because Lovie was a perpetual "lame duck" and the majority of the league (I'm assuming) hated Jay Cuter.

Here, you have Caleb Williams which I think would entice up-and-coming coaches to want to come here. It's definitely a conversation to be had in December/January and I sincerely hope we don't have to have it

[Burl]

Interestingly enough, when Eberflus was hired, George McCaskey noted that they'd hoped to return to the success they'd seen under the style of former HC Lovie Smith.

... and here we are. Winning games with an opportunistic defense and a talented young QB getting killed behind a neglected OL.


Still, consider the context. We faced two really tough DLs in the QBs first ever starts. Everyone knows pressure is the way to beat even the best QBs.
What I saw in the first half against the Texans from Williams, where he was completely efficient standing in the pocked and orchestrating a quick hit offense that Fields was never able to, that shows a range in his ability to completely change his game. I'm pretty excited.

Again, we've seen Brady crumble in superbowls when the DL is consistency getting to him. We expect too much from a first time NFL QB.
The OL will hopefully gel versus some lesser opponents in the coming weeks.

I say chill.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

[docc]

Double bitch post !!

[docc]

..and Verizon and yahoo are still saying 5 days until I get nfl plg free..

It's been 9 calls and 20 days of BS..

Had to return a phone the store morons set up with a Google account that is unknown to me. Then corrected..ans still fucked it..

I never let them touch my phones..but 115* ..clients calling..staff trying to handle things..
30 years I have avoided store moron..and do it myself.

Just give me my damn new phone in a box..I'll do the rest as I always have..and magic. It works but fucked the pooch with my free nfl promo

[Boris13c]

So if the Defense is Top 10 but the Offense is Bottom 24...

it will mean not much has changed with the organization over the decades since I first became a Bears fan

and who can forget the quote from the best NFL defensive player ever who, during yet another losing effort, trudged off the field with the rest of the defense, telling the offense "go out there and hold them a while"

that was said by Dick Butkus during the 70's ... and aside from sporadic inconsistent bursts of actual success, can be used to pretty much apply to the current Bears team situation

[grendel2000]

So if the Defense is Top 10 but the Offense is Bottom 24...

it will mean not much has changed with the organization over the decades since I first became a Bears fan

and who can forget the quote from the best NFL defensive player ever who, during yet another losing effort, trudged off the field with the rest of the defense, telling the offense "go out there and hold them a while"

that was said by Dick Butkus during the 70's ... and aside from sporadic inconsistent bursts of actual success, can be used to pretty much apply to the current Bears team situation

There should be a bumper sticker: "CHICAGO BEARS - we ONLY play Defense...".

[Arkansasbear]

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss

Won't get fooled again.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

It's a decent question I guess. I think Poles believes that his rebuild is coming together faster than he anticipated and is expecting serious improvement this year and next. The Bears showed significant improvement towards the end of the season last year, especially on defense. I'm guessing that Poles is expecting a continuation of that growth. He's also expecting that Waldron can accomplish whatever it was that got him hired in his interview with Poles. Ryan Poles had the rare opportunity to have two Top 10 picks in last year's draft. He got his QB, and a dynamic playmaker to go along with Caleb. That is all important to him. If there is progress on both sides of the ball, everyone stays. If the coaching staff isn't able to show important development milestones for Caleb, and the defense maintains or slides back, I think everyone is gone at the end of the year. Poles will go out and find someone with an offensive development background as his HC, and will refocus on Caleb's development.

[grendel2000]

It's a decent question I guess. I think Poles believes that his rebuild is coming together faster than he anticipated and is expecting serious improvement this year and next. The Bears showed significant improvement towards the end of the season last year, especially on defense. I'm guessing that Poles is expecting a continuation of that growth. He's also expecting that Waldron can accomplish whatever it was that got him hired in his interview with Poles. Ryan Poles had the rare opportunity to have two Top 10 picks in last year's draft. He got his QB, and a dynamic playmaker to go along with Caleb. That is all important to him. If there is progress on both sides of the ball, everyone stays. If the coaching staff isn't able to show important development milestones for Caleb, and the defense maintains or slides back, I think everyone is gone at the end of the year. Poles will go out and find someone with an offensive development background as his HC, and will refocus on Caleb's development.

As much as I feel nervous and crappy about what I've seen so far this year I still hope like crazy that they turn things around and just start making progress on offense. Even though it's not working yet, there's talent here and I feel somewhat encouraged when reading people with more expertise than me saying that the opportunities are there, but are being lost due to errors. I can see a world where we get our crap together and finish modestly but with momentum from knowing that next year few players in our locker room will be starting from scratch. They will need to get some rookies up to speed on the OL, which may set us back a bit, but I can't believe we'll be as forked up as we started this year.

[G08]

It's a decent question I guess. I think Poles believes that his rebuild is coming together faster than he anticipated and is expecting serious improvement this year and next. The Bears showed significant improvement towards the end of the season last year, especially on defense. I'm guessing that Poles is expecting a continuation of that growth. He's also expecting that Waldron can accomplish whatever it was that got him hired in his interview with Poles. Ryan Poles had the rare opportunity to have two Top 10 picks in last year's draft. He got his QB, and a dynamic playmaker to go along with Caleb. That is all important to him. If there is progress on both sides of the ball, everyone stays. If the coaching staff isn't able to show important development milestones for Caleb, and the defense maintains or slides back, I think everyone is gone at the end of the year. Poles will go out and find someone with an offensive development background as his HC, and will refocus on Caleb's development.

As much as I feel nervous and crappy about what I've seen so far this year I still hope like crazy that they turn things around and just start making progress on offense. Even though it's not working yet, there's talent here and I feel somewhat encouraged when reading people with more expertise than me saying that the opportunities are there, but are being lost due to errors. I can see a world where we get our crap together and finish modestly but with momentum from knowing that next year few players in our locker room will be starting from scratch. They will need to get some rookies up to speed on the OL, which may set us back a bit, but I can't believe we'll be as forked up as we started this year.

The most important thing is that Caleb Williams has gotten better each week. If he keeps that trajectory going we should be solid. Huge IF though.

[otis]

it can only go up from here, right? maybe caleb learns how to deal with a shitty line and oc and overcomes it for a decade (or two!) of excellence.

doesn't flus know what waldron is gonna run before he runs it? can't he stop it? that fucking 4th down play is killing me. i can't imagine flus signing off on that garbage.

[G08]

it can only go up from here, right? maybe caleb learns how to deal with a shitty line and oc and overcomes it for a decade (or two!) of excellence.

doesn't flus know what waldron is gonna run before he runs it? can't he stop it? that fucking 4th down play is killing me. i can't imagine flus signing off on that garbage.

I'm starting to think that Flus running the defense/calling defensive plays is screwing up some of his responsibilities as a head coach.

He needs a strong #2 or a system in place to address these gaffes. It's easily fixable if he has the wherewithal to acknowledge and correct this.

[HurricaneBear]

it can only go up from here, right? maybe caleb learns how to deal with a shitty line and oc and overcomes it for a decade (or two!) of excellence.

doesn't flus know what waldron is gonna run before he runs it? can't he stop it? that fucking 4th down play is killing me. i can't imagine flus signing off on that garbage.

That 4th down call was brutal. What's even worse about it, that's the exact play they wanted to run for that look! That worries me alot. They should have thrown at least once or twice on that series.

[malk]

it can only go up from here, right? maybe caleb learns how to deal with a shitty line and oc and overcomes it for a decade (or two!) of excellence.

doesn't flus know what waldron is gonna run before he runs it? can't he stop it? that fucking 4th down play is killing me. i can't imagine flus signing off on that garbage.

That 4th down call was brutal. What's even worse about it, that's the exact play they wanted to run for that look! That worries me alot. They should have thrown at least once or twice on that series.

That's the opposite of what happened. They expected a different look and didn't check out of it as they were late out of the huddle.

Definitely should have taken a timeout there tho.

[karhu]

it can only go up from here, right? maybe caleb learns how to deal with a shitty line and oc and overcomes it for a decade (or two!) of excellence.

doesn't flus know what waldron is gonna run before he runs it? can't he stop it? that fucking 4th down play is killing me. i can't imagine flus signing off on that garbage.

I'm starting to think that Flus running the defense/calling defensive plays is screwing up some of his responsibilities as a head coach.

He needs a strong #2 or a system in place to address these gaffes. It's easily fixable if he has the wherewithal to acknowledge and correct this.

This gets to the factor that seems to be worrying fans most of all: accountability.

I think most of us can handle bad news; we've understood that the last couple of seasons were necessarily down years. Shit, I'm a Blackhawks fan, too. But we also need to know that the right people have ambitions for all of this that roughly match our own, and that they know deviations from the organizational playbook when they see them. It'd be nice to know that someone at Halas Hall is at least seriously tempted to sit Morgan down and say "Look, you can spend the next few days listing your house or fixing the line, because if the clown show I've seen happens one more time, you're gone." Whatever went into Morgan's retention, Waldron is probably wise to avoid that kind of drama. Can Eberflus put his foot down? Can Poles? I think that's the list. And I'm doubtful.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

This gets to the factor that seems to be worrying fans most of all: accountability.

I think most of us can handle bad news; we've understood that the last couple of seasons were necessarily down years. Shit, I'm a Blackhawks fan, too. But we also need to know that the right people have ambitions for all of this that roughly match our own, and that they know deviations from the organizational playbook when they see them. It'd be nice to know that someone at Halas Hall is at least seriously tempted to sit Morgan down and say "Look, you can spend the next few days listing your house or fixing the line, because if the clown show I've seen happens one more time, you're gone." Whatever went into Morgan's retention, Waldron is probably wise to avoid that kind of drama. Can Eberflus put his foot down? Can Poles? I think that's the list. And I'm doubtful.

To be fair, we have no idea what is going on behind closed doors. Teams don't air issues publicly. For all we know that's exactly what's happening.

There are also different ways of approaching issues. What's more effective, to call a coach in to your office and give him a dressing down for his performance and make it clear that his job is on the line or have a frank and open discussion, keep things positive and try to identify solutions together?

[G08]

This gets to the factor that seems to be worrying fans most of all: accountability.

I think most of us can handle bad news; we've understood that the last couple of seasons were necessarily down years. Shit, I'm a Blackhawks fan, too. But we also need to know that the right people have ambitions for all of this that roughly match our own, and that they know deviations from the organizational playbook when they see them. It'd be nice to know that someone at Halas Hall is at least seriously tempted to sit Morgan down and say "Look, you can spend the next few days listing your house or fixing the line, because if the clown show I've seen happens one more time, you're gone." Whatever went into Morgan's retention, Waldron is probably wise to avoid that kind of drama. Can Eberflus put his foot down? Can Poles? I think that's the list. And I'm doubtful.

To be fair, we have no idea what is going on behind closed doors. Teams don't air issues publicly. For all we know that's exactly what's happening.

There are also different ways of approaching issues. What's more effective, to call a coach in to your office and give him a dressing down for his performance and make it clear that his job is on the line or have a frank and open discussion, keep things positive and try to identify solutions together?

Marcedes Lewis had some very powerful comments when he met with the media today, I thought he showed tremendous leadership.

My biggest takeaway is that Shane Waldron perhaps is struggling with asserting himself as an offensive coordinator. The offense has a Hall of Fame WR in Keenan Allen, a All Pro in DJ Moore, a grizzled veteran in Marcedes Lewis, etc. What really blew me away is that Lewis shared that he told Waldron that they're all adults in the room and they need to be held accountable.

Anyone who has been in a leadership position, especially in a new job, can tell you it's a bit of an awkward transition. You can't just walk into an established place and whip your proverbial dick around, it's the quickest way (IMO) to lose respect from those who have been there longer than you. It's a transition and having someone like Marcedes Lewis who is pointing that out to you (as a leader) and giving you the green light to hold people accountable has to be a huge feather in Waldron's cap. But that's ONLY if he takes the message to heart and starts coaching hard, holding players accountable, etc. He can't be timid, bashful, shy, etc. It doesn't work that way.

Be on their ass, be on the details, call out dogshit plays, call out dogshit effort. Don't be afraid to rip someone if you have to (*cough* Nate Davis *cough*).


I can't fucking wait for Sunday to get here and see if we take a step forward or if this whole thing fucking implodes.

[dplank]

It’s gonna get better , breakout game is coming

[G08]

[Rusty Trombagent]

Tory Taylor:

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Marcedes Lewis had some very powerful comments when he met with the media today, I thought he showed tremendous leadership.

My biggest takeaway is that Shane Waldron perhaps is struggling with asserting himself as an offensive coordinator. The offense has a Hall of Fame WR in Keenan Allen, a All Pro in DJ Moore, a grizzled veteran in Marcedes Lewis, etc. What really blew me away is that Lewis shared that he told Waldron that they're all adults in the room and they need to be held accountable.

Anyone who has been in a leadership position, especially in a new job, can tell you it's a bit of an awkward transition. You can't just walk into an established place and whip your proverbial dick around, it's the quickest way (IMO) to lose respect from those who have been there longer than you. It's a transition and having someone like Marcedes Lewis who is pointing that out to you (as a leader) and giving you the green light to hold people accountable has to be a huge feather in Waldron's cap. But that's ONLY if he takes the message to heart and starts coaching hard, holding players accountable, etc. He can't be timid, bashful, shy, etc. It doesn't work that way.

Be on their ass, be on the details, call out dogshit plays, call out dogshit effort. Don't be afraid to rip someone if you have to (*cough* Nate Davis *cough*).


I can't fucking wait for Sunday to get here and see if we take a step forward or if this whole thing fucking implodes.

DJ Moore will be delighted to know he's going to get his first All Pro accolade!

They do appear to have been holding players accountable, at least to some degree, by benching Nate Davis and doing so for a guy who was not even in the competition for that spot prior to the start of the season. It would have been one thing if it was Bates, but with him on IR they still turned to Pryor.

Gerald Everett's also been getting a lot fewer snaps percentage-wise since Week 1 when he had 61%. In Week 2 it was 36% and Week 3 33%.

D'Andre Swift's usage also dropped from 70% and 66% down to 53% in the last game with Johnson returning and there's all this chatter about the latter getting a larger workload this week.

I'm not sure why Scott's in the doghouse and barely gets on the field, but maybe he's not performed well in training and therefore hasn't earned reps despite Allen being out.

Hopefully Lewis's comments will galvanise Waldron and the players. The problem hasn't just been one or two players performing so badly they need to be benched or have their opportunities cut back. It's every player making errors at some point. It only takes one botched assignment to derail a play.

The key is to get that running game functioning. I really believe that if they can accomplish that everything else will fall into place.

[Moriarty]

At least we're in good company, amirite?

[karhu]

This gets to the factor that seems to be worrying fans most of all: accountability.

I think most of us can handle bad news; we've understood that the last couple of seasons were necessarily down years. Shit, I'm a Blackhawks fan, too. But we also need to know that the right people have ambitions for all of this that roughly match our own, and that they know deviations from the organizational playbook when they see them. It'd be nice to know that someone at Halas Hall is at least seriously tempted to sit Morgan down and say "Look, you can spend the next few days listing your house or fixing the line, because if the clown show I've seen happens one more time, you're gone." Whatever went into Morgan's retention, Waldron is probably wise to avoid that kind of drama. Can Eberflus put his foot down? Can Poles? I think that's the list. And I'm doubtful.

To be fair, we have no idea what is going on behind closed doors. Teams don't air issues publicly. For all we know that's exactly what's happening.

Point taken. At the same time, we'll know if enough has been going on behind closed doors. That's all I was getting at.

There are also different ways of approaching issues. What's more effective, to call a coach in to your office and give him a dressing down for his performance and make it clear that his job is on the line or have a frank and open discussion, keep things positive and try to identify solutions together?

Depends on the coach. I only went meatball there as a way of saying that it'd be nice to know that someone's seeing red. If he is, and he's worth his salt, he'll use that anger to get the results he needs. Which, sure, doesn't mean directly venting that anger; that'd be self-indulgent. Still, I tend to think that frank and open discussions of gross mismanagement (in this case, disturbingly poor line coaching) are a bit too conciliatory: you wouldn't be looking to identify middle ground, after all. But re-establishing expectations and offering to help a subordinate achieve the results that you both--no discussion--agree are necessary, that could work. As could an ass-chewing, especially if the more ostensibly constructive approach hasn't yielded any results.